Venom Snake
Member
Oh really? Then i'm ordering both right away, it's about time.
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Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth underperformed, says Square Enix
kazuyamishima
Member
It’s so sad what happened to Octopath II that had trouble clearing a million units after some months been available at most platforms.
In that aspect I was talking in general, not in Square in particular which, as you say, has a problem when it comes to completing good ports for PC or even ports on other platforms that the vast majority of large publishers or even indi publishers do not have.
Yes, Square should start by solving that issue, but it doesn't take away from what has been said: You can't expect the same sales for a port released 1-2 years later as you can launching it day one on that same platform because, in that time, you've lost the hype of the launch, expectations and a negative word of mouth can be fatal too.
Fabieter
Member
The list is long. I also liked Diofield alot. Iam 100% sure we never see a sequel. It's a shame and multiplatform sadly won't change anything for them. They have to look alot deeper.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
The problem is that FF is latched to the idea of nostalgia and the fans are growing up. FF isn’t as marketable to the younger generation anymore. Remember FFXV came out 7 years before FFXVI and that’s a big gap already.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I bought 16 for PC. But I am also well aware of the game's critiques levied against it on this site and other internet outlets. Do you honestly believe negative word of mouth on a game that's been on the market for a year won't affect it's PC sales? When you release games day one on everything you get day one hype, and blind day one purchases. It's important.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Esparadrapo
Member
Tried the FF XVI demo. It's awful. The whole thing is awful.
They should part with the FF XIV aesthetics and develop a new game engine because this one sucks immensely.
They should part with the FF XIV aesthetics and develop a new game engine because this one sucks immensely.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
You need to ask yourself how does Square's management able to keep their jobs - don't 90% of their games do not reach sales targets they set?SQUARE:
TheDarkPhantom
Member
Again, if I'm personally interested in a game I really don't give a fuck what others have to say or when it releases on my platform of choice. Darkest Dungeon 2 came out on PC last year, lots of chatter about how different it was to the first game and many saying the first game was superior. Came to PS5 in July, was there day 1 as I always intended, it's one of my favourite releases this year.
"Negative word of mouth", that can apply to most games released, everyone on a forum like this (or elsewhere) has an opinion and not all opinions are equal lol. FF16 has an 87 Metacritic (if you care about that, I judge things for myself). Anyone who has been gaming a long time should know what they like and not be influenced by chatter whether good or ill.
Shifty1897
Member
Okay but
You have to admit these set pieces were pretty amazing.
You have to admit these set pieces were pretty amazing.
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Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Just get guarantees. Sony will pay for X amount of marketing and bundle X amount of copies with their consoles in these territories.
DryvBy
Member
Got some news for ya
Madflavor
Member
FFXIII and FFXV were both on the Xbox. If they continued by having Remake and FFXVI available on that platform, along with Day 1 PC versions, they wouldn't be in this predicament. The Final Fantasy fanbase was getting older and the gaming landscape was changing. The series was not the juggernaut it once was, anyone could've told you that. But instead of continuing to gain new audiences by casting as wide of a net as possible, they handicapped themselves by taking a paycheck from Sony. Typical corporate thinking of looking only at tomorrow. Short term gain, long term loss.
Felessan
Member
It sells a LOT. Actually market bigger than ever. It just changed considerably.
The problem is that this particular genre affected by gaas-fication the most. Especially in Asia which always was a primary market for anime games.
And SE is lagging behind, they tried to appeal to western userbase (FF16) and nostalgy (FF7R2) but it's still not enough to offset losses to games like Genshin and co.
Fabieter
Member
Sometimes it's even the other way around. I don't think dark souls 1 would have sold as good as it did if it was day one pc in 2011. It came with alot of hype to pc.
Its a bullshit take that day one is all that matters. Most indie games these days are day one an pc and later on other platforms. Like you said if the game is good and there is an audience on the platform it will sell regardless.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They uploaded the 'full' fiscal report today on the SE investor website which outlined the May meeting.
Previous reporting was done based on the financial call, now the presentation is publicly accessible.
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Madflavor
Member
FFXIII and FFXV were both on the Xbox. If they continued by having Remake and FFXVI available on that platform, along with Day 1 PC versions, they wouldn't be in this predicament. No I don't think they would've sold super well on Xbox, but the combined sales of Xbox and PC probably would've made a real difference. The Final Fantasy fanbase was getting older and the gaming landscape was changing. The series was not the juggernaut it once was, anyone could've told you that. But instead of continuing to gain new audiences by casting as wide of a net as possible, they handicapped themselves by taking a paycheck from Sony. Typical corporate thinking of looking only at tomorrow. Short term gain, long term loss.
Astray
Member
Square has a lot of problems with its leadership tbh.
They come out on stage with Phil Spencer and announce that Xbox will become key to them etc.. Then three games in a row or so skip the platform.
Maybe wait a bit on the announcements until you can immediately deliver on them?
Felessan
Member
Gains on PC+Xbox can be pretty much ignored, being so small, most of them will buy (or already did) playstation anyway
Stu_Hart
Member
FF isn't a huge seller like it used to be, and then you add to the fact that the devs are making dumb decisions like FF16 being an action game with just 1 character that you can use with a very repetitive and basic combat system, introducing whispers/alternate timelines in FF7 rebirth. You already don't have the casual market on lock, and then you lose your loyal fanbase as well...
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Got some news for ya
How do you suppose that graph would look if it was PC vs Sony and not PC vs Sony/Nintendo/Xbox?
Trekinspace88
Member
Honestly i wouldn't be surprised if FF 17's lead platform would be the Switch 2 and the console version as basically a port. Since JRPG'S don't seem to be selling well on PS and they are nearly dead on Xbox sale wise with PC being the exception.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
In that same paragraph they mention HD games suffered an operating loss of 8.1B yen, up by 4B compared to last year.
Also just for comparison, Final Fantasy XV shipped 5 million units at launch and broke even on day 1. It surpassed 10 million sold in 2022.
Final Fantasy XV - Wikipedia
StueyDuck
Member
A lot of people in this thread clearly (or purposely) don't know what they are talking about.
Squeenix always has stupidly high forecasted expectations for their titles. They think they will get GTA/Fortnite numbers for every game.
Putting something on a different platform isn't going to fix these expectations being wrong, it only makes them worse.
IE. lets pretend they expected rebirth to sell 32 million copies. if they made it completely multiplatform all they are going to do is up that number to something ridiculous like 60-80 million, not be satisfied with the extra 5 or so mil they sell (at best)
the problem has nothing to do with anything other than Squeenix themselves having no idea how to read the market and promising the moon to investors.
Squeenix always has stupidly high forecasted expectations for their titles. They think they will get GTA/Fortnite numbers for every game.
Putting something on a different platform isn't going to fix these expectations being wrong, it only makes them worse.
IE. lets pretend they expected rebirth to sell 32 million copies. if they made it completely multiplatform all they are going to do is up that number to something ridiculous like 60-80 million, not be satisfied with the extra 5 or so mil they sell (at best)
the problem has nothing to do with anything other than Squeenix themselves having no idea how to read the market and promising the moon to investors.
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DryvBy
Member
We can't tell. We could assume Xbox would be bringing console sales way down given they're bundled. Switch and PS are obviously what's making line go up. But if you were to read what all the PC bros online, they all seem to think everyone's jumping ship to get on the Steam train. And there's just so many more games and options on PC.How do you suppose that graph would look if it was PC vs Sony and not PC vs Sony/Nintendo/Xbox?
Please note "PC bros" are these master race types and not just normal PC gamers like myself.
BigBeauford
Gold Member
The moment the FF series went HD and full anime is when the sales numbers dropped.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Lol thats not the problem…Would you prefer they make a deal with Xbox?
The problem is SE’s expectations. They think FF is 20Million+ selling games. They aren’t. But no matter how much they sell SE ‘expects’ more…
I prefer they not make a deal with anyone and sell their games to everyone at the same time.
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graywolf323
Member
yep, this is a bit disingenuous, you could easily interpret it as those two met expectations but didn’t exceed enough to make up for other games falling short
coachmcguirk91
Member
Xbox is barely worth porting to nowadays. Their gamers buy games at a much lower frequency than Playstation or Nintendo players. Regardless, even FF16 has very weak initial numbers on Steam. People just don't seem to realize these genre of games don't appeal to mass audiences. FF7 Rebirth is a bloated 100+ hr tactical game and FF16 is a Devil May Cry action game
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Fabieter
Member
In an ideal world that would be the case for every game. Most devs not associated with console bring their games to PC and do a console port after it. It's a non issue and I would expect people would rather wait to have a great experience. If sqaure enix can't do a game on four different platform all at once than I prefer them to focus their development efforts in specific platforms. My guess it's neither pc or Playstation going forward. The switch is the way to go for sqaure enix.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Bad enough that they decided to proclaim publicly that they are going multiplatforms right after
dmaul1114
Member
Bummer as I loved both. Obviously getting FF7 part 3, but they’ll likely reconsider their approach for FF18 and onward.
Seems like a lot of the JRPG fan base is on Switch and, just overall on all platforms, just isn’t big enough to generate the profit margins wanted on these huge budget high-end AAA games.
Sucks as I really want the top end graphics, voice acting etc. on narrative driven games. But the market may just not be there for huge budget JRPGs at that scale.
Seems like a lot of the JRPG fan base is on Switch and, just overall on all platforms, just isn’t big enough to generate the profit margins wanted on these huge budget high-end AAA games.
Sucks as I really want the top end graphics, voice acting etc. on narrative driven games. But the market may just not be there for huge budget JRPGs at that scale.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
FF XV shipped 5 million at launch and broke even on day 1. It sold over 10M total as of March 2022 and is one of the best sellers in the series.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
They said that basically their HD Gaming losses are not covered by two numbered FFs sales, it's not that they are underperformed or failed.
Also quoting Takashi Mochizuki, really?
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Kvally
Member
Yup. Day one on Xbox, PS, PC, if possible Switch 2 and streaming.
Fabieter
Member
Its interesting that everyone is just talking about final fantasy tho while those might also fell short. It's definitely not the whole story
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
They are also mentioning Foamstars as an obvious loss-leader, but that don't generate clicks for Takashi.Its interesting that everyone is just talking about final fantasy tho while those might also fell short. It's definitely not the whole story
Fabieter
Member
Yes that one too but I also suspect that they are disappointed of most of their AA games which are mostly multiplatform.
Lambogenie
Member
I feel the fact they didn't lean into a more typical, cool anime look instead of their XIII/XV/XVI/VIIr look didn't help. People like anime, and it'd have been different. I want to see them try a different look next time. And not be a repetitive bore like XVI.
Madflavor
Member
To be clear, I'm not arguing that moving forward they need to release on Xbox. I also am not arguing that porting is the answer either. The games need to release day and date on multiple platforms at launch, when marketing is at it's peak, to maximize potential sales.
What I'm saying is if they continued their trend of releasing Final Fantasy games on multiple platforms, they likely would be in a better spot than they are now, albeit still on a downward trend. But putting their big expensive AAA JRPG that's losing relevancy behind an exclusivity wall, only accelerated the IPs decline.
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ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Yup. Taking 16 or 7RR as a failure here is a huge reach, Square basically said that their HD Gaming losses were not covered by huge profits, nothing more or less.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Got some news for ya
Is that hardware spending or software?
If its hardware?
No shit PC spending has reduced when $500 dollar GPUs were going for $1,500 - $2,000 in Covid times.
What Square games have Skip vs come to XBOX since then?
I also don't think that shaking P. Spencer's hand means that all Square games will be released on XBOX, but I do think that there will be many more that will be released and that is already being seen.
P.S. And no, I'm not putting my hands in the fire for Square. Square is not trustworthy.
But the same reason is what I would also advise those who think that this agreement with P. Spencer is a theatrical performance without substance or effects and that Square's strategy regarding XBOX has not changed.
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Fabieter
Member
Don't know if that would be part of this as well but didn't they also cancel alot of projects. Thats stuff is also reported as a loss but I don't know if this fall in line with the report.
proandrad
Member
You deserve nothing because square always has crazy expectations of sales. Same thing happened with the Tomb Raider reboot. Square thinks all their games should be doing COD numbers.Oh FF16 sold so great huh!?
I demand apologies!!
graywolf323
Member
and Square-Enix will still announce that sales were disappointing
