Sushi_Combo
Member
Yeah not sure having the game on xbox would have changed anything. SE were disappointed in those Tomb raider sales that sold well! Lol.
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Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth underperformed, says Square Enix
Kvally
Member
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
That's really not true in this case. No one should have expected their flagship series to shrink compared to the previous entry while stuff like Monster Hunter, Yakuza, Dark Souls and Persona keep growing.
They were morons for ever approving a slow motion decade long remake trilogy though, so that was certainly lofty BS on their part. They believed the vocal minority online that got their jimmies rustled with that PS3 tech demo and never let it go.
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delishcaek
Neo Member
It can't be enough when their whole line-up of games generated a meager 750 million USD. That IS low when you have released historical IPs like FFXVI and 7 Rebirth.... they should be cracking 1 billion easy.
It is hardware and software combined and that graph was done by a moron at WSJ. PC hardware sales did decline, but not by that much (23ish billion down to 20), software revenue was up. I posted the actual Aldora report WSJ used for the graph and Aldora themselves are saying that the PC hardware segment proves resilient, as they expect console hardware to come crashing down next FY.
WSJ - PS5 shipped 61.7M and Xbox Series 28.3M WW, as of the end of june 2024, PC Sales Falling
Sony isn't focusing on PC tho. Their first party studio games are still coming to PC 1 to 2 years after release. True. But can you list how many? Do you still think releasing just one or at most 2 exclusives per year is enough for gamers to continue supporting the console? PS2 to PS4...
Kvally
Member
Having the game on Xbox, PlayStation, PC, Nintendo, Streaming is a win for gamers.
Windom Earle
Member
Why do they still call it HD games lmao. Are they still stuck in the hd town loop?
StereoVsn
Member
Yep, you also take advantage of bigger marketing budget.
Personally I didn’t buy FFXVI as I don’t find that game interesting or enjoyable. However I loved FFVII Rebirth.
That said SE does a shoddy job in general on their PC ports. And does stupid things like releasing exclusively on Epic.
Anyways, a lot of the issues are on SE’s side, but I still want them to succeed because I do generally like their games.
Fabieter
Member
It can't be enough when their whole line-up of games generated a meager 750 million USD. That IS low when you have released historical IPs like FFXVI and 7 Rebirth.... they should be cracking 1 billion easy.
It is hardware and software combined and that graph was done by a moron at WSJ. PC hardware sales did decline, but not by that much (23ish billion down to 20), software revenue was up. I posted the actual Aldora report WSJ used for the graph and Aldora themselves are saying that the PC hardware segment proves resilient, as they expect console hardware to come crashing down next FY.
WSJ - PS5 shipped 61.7M and Xbox Series 28.3M WW, as of the end of june 2024, PC Sales Falling
Sony isn't focusing on PC tho. Their first party studio games are still coming to PC 1 to 2 years after release. True. But can you list how many? Do you still think releasing just one or at most 2 exclusives per year is enough for gamers to continue supporting the console? PS2 to PS4...www.neogaf.com
Assuming they get $40 on average for every sale, that's 25 million copies. We're talking about quarterly revenue, aren't we?
Bernardougf
Member
FFXVI is not FF .. so no surprise there ... Rebirth is a boring bloat fest and no amount of goty polls will change that.
This modern FF has a proper established fanbase and will not sell beyond that...imho they have zero appeal outside their usual fans.
This modern FF has a proper established fanbase and will not sell beyond that...imho they have zero appeal outside their usual fans.
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Aion002
Gold Member
Got some news for ya
Itchy Tickles
Member
These are the same people who killed Sleeping Dogs because it "underperformed" even though it is STILL highly rated and beloved. I appreciate that it doesn't necessarily equals sales, but for a new IP especially, they overshot. Same with Tomb Raider, as others mentioned.
I'm not a big Final Fantasy fan to say the least, but there is no fucking chance I'm paying £69.99 for FF7 part 1 or 2 or 3, fuck off. Tried the demo of FF16 and it was the same typical nonsense. I swear their animators have never seen a human body in motion. Dialogue, as always, is completely cringe but to each their own.
Maybe if they stopped spending money on big flashy graphics and effects and focused on quality, it might help the game overall and the cost of making it. The demo started with 2 summons fighting and we pressed like 1 button repeatedly. This is why I prefer turn based to this shallow action type.
I'm not a big Final Fantasy fan to say the least, but there is no fucking chance I'm paying £69.99 for FF7 part 1 or 2 or 3, fuck off. Tried the demo of FF16 and it was the same typical nonsense. I swear their animators have never seen a human body in motion. Dialogue, as always, is completely cringe but to each their own.
Maybe if they stopped spending money on big flashy graphics and effects and focused on quality, it might help the game overall and the cost of making it. The demo started with 2 summons fighting and we pressed like 1 button repeatedly. This is why I prefer turn based to this shallow action type.
Pejo
Member
Man I remember ALL the posts trying to convince me that Final Fantasy hasn't declined in popularity/prestige as a brand, saying that the latest FF games were knocking it out of the park, sales wise. Bullshit.
They will continue the decline before it gets better, in my opinion. I'd really like to see them reboot the series back to turn-based 1-9 FF with better visuals and a proper budget (more than Octopath/Bravely series). If things keep getting worse, you figure they have to at least try at some point, right?
They will continue the decline before it gets better, in my opinion. I'd really like to see them reboot the series back to turn-based 1-9 FF with better visuals and a proper budget (more than Octopath/Bravely series). If things keep getting worse, you figure they have to at least try at some point, right?
RoboFu
One of the green rats
BS you guys were like.. "Oh SQUARE was more than satisfied. " blah blah blah.
apologize now!!
proandrad
Member
Sounds like you are trying real hard to have a narrative fit your opinion of a certain game. You ever heard of confirmation bias?
Fabieter
Member
Where did it say final fantasy 16 underperformed. So many people are just mad about the new final fantasy games. They are disappointed with the "profit" with all their other shit hitting multiple platforms. Thread title is misleading a little bit.
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Boss Mog
Member
Yeah, like releasing it on Xbox would've made it sell tons more
Kumomeme
Member
Square Enix expectation perhaps they expect another Breath of the Wild or Elden Rings number lmao
i understand if FF16 hard to reach the numbers since it type of game that has its own audience. but on paper Rebirth has all the element of a game that has over 10 million unit sold. open world, good action combat, cinematic cutscene, dialogue choice, pretty visual etc. but it seems doesnt make the sparks in the market like it should be. such a shame that the game is a really-really good. i believe the issue is not simply being locked on one platform. plenty of game managed to sold over 10 millions under playstation or nintendo's platform alone.
on paper title like Rebirth should sold very well but for Final Fantasy title, it might be actually not that simple. it is a franchise that slowly fall into niche genre at first place. it is a franchise that the company try their best to grow new younger audiences. and for Rebirth, compared to a brand new Final Fantasy, despite the popularity FFVII remake it is still a game that mostly targeted already existing fans. it is like a big alien wall to a newcomers. most importantly lot of people forgot that if we see the franchise track record for over 30 years, it actually never been casual's favourite over 10 million sellers norm of franchise from very beginning either.
personally to break the number and breach the barrier, Square should not realy only on gaming medium. they cant keep hoping at each new AAA release would be a miracle boom of Elden Ring number lol. even Elden Ring took years to be where it was today. originally the Souls genre started as a niche genre too. another path they could take is look at example of other title like Hogward Legacy or Spiderman. it is already well known beloved franchise across the globe and it immensely helped drive the game sales. so what should they do? they should leverage their position on japanese market as a publisher of media other than videogames to expand the mindshare of the franchise IMO. dont make a CGI movie again. it has a very niche audience. one of easiest way is making anime. they even used to publish tons of anime and merchandise at japan. when last time we got a proper FF anime for example? even one of biggest MMO FF14 also still dont has anime today and yet Genshin Impact anime's are already coming with Ufotable adaptation lmao. some of product like novels for example are hard to get outside japan. they need to work to increase the brand awareness outside of videogames space so it would helped to drive boost to their flagship product in future.
they also need to step up their marketing too. i understand the reason of not want to advertise too much in risk of what happening with the announcement of Fabula Nova Crystallis during PS360 era before but lately there lacking of feeling 'wow' factor in their promotional material. their trailers before often to feels very cinematic but lately it is worth to skip for. Wukong gained lot of attention due to it crazy reception of its inital reveal. when the last time Final Fantasy got that amount of attention hype? i say it is during Versus 13 reveal and XV rebrand announcement before. after that? nah. 16 and Rebirth gained lot attention but it is nowhere on that level.
i understand if FF16 hard to reach the numbers since it type of game that has its own audience. but on paper Rebirth has all the element of a game that has over 10 million unit sold. open world, good action combat, cinematic cutscene, dialogue choice, pretty visual etc. but it seems doesnt make the sparks in the market like it should be. such a shame that the game is a really-really good. i believe the issue is not simply being locked on one platform. plenty of game managed to sold over 10 millions under playstation or nintendo's platform alone.
on paper title like Rebirth should sold very well but for Final Fantasy title, it might be actually not that simple. it is a franchise that slowly fall into niche genre at first place. it is a franchise that the company try their best to grow new younger audiences. and for Rebirth, compared to a brand new Final Fantasy, despite the popularity FFVII remake it is still a game that mostly targeted already existing fans. it is like a big alien wall to a newcomers. most importantly lot of people forgot that if we see the franchise track record for over 30 years, it actually never been casual's favourite over 10 million sellers norm of franchise from very beginning either.
personally to break the number and breach the barrier, Square should not realy only on gaming medium. they cant keep hoping at each new AAA release would be a miracle boom of Elden Ring number lol. even Elden Ring took years to be where it was today. originally the Souls genre started as a niche genre too. another path they could take is look at example of other title like Hogward Legacy or Spiderman. it is already well known beloved franchise across the globe and it immensely helped drive the game sales. so what should they do? they should leverage their position on japanese market as a publisher of media other than videogames to expand the mindshare of the franchise IMO. dont make a CGI movie again. it has a very niche audience. one of easiest way is making anime. they even used to publish tons of anime and merchandise at japan. when last time we got a proper FF anime for example? even one of biggest MMO FF14 also still dont has anime today and yet Genshin Impact anime's are already coming with Ufotable adaptation lmao. some of product like novels for example are hard to get outside japan. they need to work to increase the brand awareness outside of videogames space so it would helped to drive boost to their flagship product in future.
they also need to step up their marketing too. i understand the reason of not want to advertise too much in risk of what happening with the announcement of Fabula Nova Crystallis during PS360 era before but lately there lacking of feeling 'wow' factor in their promotional material. their trailers before often to feels very cinematic but lately it is worth to skip for. Wukong gained lot of attention due to it crazy reception of its inital reveal. when the last time Final Fantasy got that amount of attention hype? i say it is during Versus 13 reveal and XV rebrand announcement before. after that? nah. 16 and Rebirth gained lot attention but it is nowhere on that level.
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Kacho
Gold Member
Launching on PC and Switch 2 will help somewhat. But the issues with Final fantasy runs deeper than that.
I played the FFXVI demo on PC last night I can see why it didn’t sell enough to meet their expectations. I’m good.
I felt the same about FF7Re when I played that. They can miss me with the unengaging action combat and PS2 level design.
I played the FFXVI demo on PC last night I can see why it didn’t sell enough to meet their expectations. I’m good.
I felt the same about FF7Re when I played that. They can miss me with the unengaging action combat and PS2 level design.
delishcaek
Neo Member
no, this is for the whole FY. I guess 20-25m games sold throughout the year is a fair estimate but that isn't just FFXVI and 7 Rebirth. That is across all their games and according to their image it seems they had 7 new releases.
What's interesting is that FFXIV generated almost 50 billion Yen by itself... without an expansion.
Sushi_Combo
Member
Where's my starfield?
Maybe releasing PC Day 1 could’ve been worth more than whatever Sony gave them for toked exclusivity. None of us here know that and anyone claiming they do is a liar.
IMO, the real issue is that FF13, FF15 and even FF12, were all underwhelming at best and arguably flat out bad (FF13) despite selling well. These poor releases hurt the IP. Rebirth is the type of games they need to be making, but it’ll take a string of good releases to build momentum back.
IMO, the real issue is that FF13, FF15 and even FF12, were all underwhelming at best and arguably flat out bad (FF13) despite selling well. These poor releases hurt the IP. Rebirth is the type of games they need to be making, but it’ll take a string of good releases to build momentum back.
Felessan
Member
You misplaced your focus.
SE problem is Genshin eating out their playervase, not potentional 20% max more users on PC+consoles.
Going full multiplatform will not save them as we see on number of smaller titles, they have to find a way to battle high-profile gaas invasion.
Player retention wise they should focus on finding a way to get back their core audience (that is asian players, mostly console) and not expanding, money wise they should go whatever is more profitable (and I doubt that Xbox sales would bring more than marketing deal from Sony)
SEGAvangelist
Member
This is clearly Tifa's fault.
Fabieter
Member
The problem is while final fantasy could have sold better all their AA games sold like crap. People forget those are expensive as well. So they should focus on AAA games.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
obvi. both underdelivered
Kvally
Member
Fabieter
Member
I read somewhere a comment from a Japanese PlayStation player at the release of FF16, saying that he bought the game and checked his friends list, only to see that everyone was playing Genshin, Honkai, and Apex. So this definitely seems true as well.
Astray
Member
Based on my cursory search.
Phil came on stage with Yoshida and Kiryu (then brand new Square CEO) in July 2023.
Since then at least the following games have skipped Xbox:
- Star Ocean: Second Story R
- SaGa: Emerald Beyond
- Romancing SaGa 2: Revenge of the Seven
- Final Fantasy Pixel Remaster
All these games can run on Xbox consoles just fine (including last gen), but not making Xbox versions of at least Star Ocean and Pixel Remaster is just weird and undercuts your big announcement.
I didn't think it was theatrical, but the incompetence that followed afterwards is just strange to me, and only Square are to blame for that.
They somehow managed to make the worst out of a Sony moneyhat AND managed to miss the boat on the Series consoles launch slates. That's impressive in a sense.
Little Chicken
Member
I GUESS PLAYSTATION OWNERS DON'T BUY GAMES!
This isn't just on SE, Sony would've had to have agreed on a sales target as well in order to have a contract
This isn't just on SE, Sony would've had to have agreed on a sales target as well in order to have a contract
It seems you're the one who failed to grasp the financial situation of SE AAA games results. Their expectations are relative to the budgets given to the development teams but those two games failed to deliver commercially.
Final Fantasy mainline budgets are certainly sitting at the top along with a few other games but their sales strategy is holding their titles back from selling to wider audiences.
Resident Evil(day one multiplat strategy) vs Final Fantasy (console exclusive strategy) sales in this generation.
Resident Evil 2 Remake - 14.2m
Final Fantasy 7 Remake - 7m
Resident Evil 4 Remake - 7m(Fastest selling RE game to date)
Final Fantasy XVI - 3.5m
Interfectum
Gold Member
I imagine every Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest this point forward will be developed for Switch 2 first then ported.
Fabieter
Member
Its not their AAA game result. It's all their non mobile, mmo games.
So we don't know which are the specific games they are disappointed with.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
They should try to go back to their roots and try to sell a new game that plays like the old ones. It’s not like people are against turn based RPG’s, look at Baldur’s Gate 3.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Octopath Traveller II was legit incredible. Buy that game!
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I think it is expected when you change your gameplay style almost completely with FF16.
As for 7 remake/rebirth. The game is bloated, but I like the CG and retelling of the story. But I do not think it appeals to the modern CoD audience.
Fabieter
Member
I can't wait for the FF9 remake to be available on all platforms from day one, turn-based, and the best Final Fantasy game ever. And yet, all those people who criticize Final Fantasy for not being like the older ones still won’t buy it.
StueyDuck
Member
Your response has nothing to do with what i said?
It is so far removed from anything I was saying in my post that I'm fairly certain you didn't read it.
Resident Evil sales have nothing to do with the fact that square Enix doesn't know how to forecast their sales.
What point are you even making. That one game in a different franchise sold more?
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
It’s on every screen.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I’m not looking to buy a remake of a game I beat 20 years ago though.
Expedition 33 is a great example of the direction I preferred Square went with Final Fantasy.
Sushi_Combo
Member
Not on mine, sorry. Not everybody wins here.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
Yours too. You can’t escape Xbox! Only sales can elude it.
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Fabieter
Member
People always find excuses to not buy ff games so iam not surprised.
You will have a new direction with ff 17. I can't wait for expedition 33 but you can bet your ass that they will just literate on the first games if its becoming a success. I prefer Square Enix approach with every game being different.
SQE forecast sales numbers are realistic to the budgets given to their developers. They were clearly expecting FF series to sell similarly to successful AAA Japanese games like Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, and Souls series but failed because of exclusive strategy they were adopting not inline with industry standards. Square Enix overestimated Playstation exclusive deal and underestimated multiplatform business strategy.
StueyDuck
Member
So you think their estimations would remain absolutely the same if they had more platforms.
Yes sir, we estimate that adding more platforms to the product Won't add any more sales because our budget says so.
You really think that's how it works?
You don't think the marketing team sees, oh Xbox and Nintendo consoles that's an added 30+ mil potential buyers. We should increase our projections?
You think they expect the exact same number of sales on one platform vs them all?
Astray
Member
The final fantasy audience is deeply fragmented because Square's development of the IP since the PS1 days has been very erratic.
Aesthetic and gameplay elements are rarely built on, and are instead comprehensively overhauled every game.
Compare how Sega has built up the Persona (from 3 on) and SMT franchises in recent years vs how Square did with their own crown jewels and you will see a massive difference imo. They're also doing the same with the Ichiban installments of Yakuza.