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[Busaiku]

The 3rd Lyn, and 4th Lucina, but only the second Ike, despite being more popular overall.
Being after Summer is good though, blew far too much money recently trying to get good Lucina and Sanaki, along with the Summer stuff. Will probably skip everything till then.

Hopefully Sonya ends up as 4 star.
Need Soren food.

 

[explodet]

After watching Alfonse double and kill a lancer, kill Takumi who procc'd Vengeance at like 2 HP, and tank Reinhardt, I'm not sure why the idea didn't hit me sooner: Prayer on Elise.

Remind me again, what does Prayer do?

 

[spiritfox]

I need a way to downgrade crystals to shards. I have so many crystals but not enough shards.

 

[Ninferno]

I need a way to downgrade crystals to shards. I have so many crystals but not enough shards.

Who didn't... Units you want to bring to lv40 are usually units you care about to earn more SP for, so you are not going to be using crystals for auto level up and miss the SP for kills in training. The only occasion where crystals might be useful are those "use GHB units to kill their lv40 selves" quests.

Units you want to bring ONLY to lv20 however, are usually 3* SI fodders you want to promote to 4* just to be sacrificed immediately after, and shards are perfect for that. I bet most of our fellow F2Ps or small spenders are really low on their shards by now, especially red and blue

 

[explodet]

I have yet to use a single universal crystal, and I just broke the 100K barrier. I'd rather just level regularly because I know I'll need the SP later.
I even level SI fodder regularly. It doesn't take THAT much time. You can get a character to lvl 10 just auto-battling the very first training stratum.

Hey, 10 orbs tomorrow! Cha-ching!

 

[Mupod]

yeah I'm constantly starved for red shards in particular. Selena for TA2 and Reposition, Lon'qu for Vantage, Hinata for Fury are my most common inheritances. I'd be low on blue as well if I wasn't rolling in 4* Subaki and Robin.

I've got around 70k universal crystals. I do use those sometimes, for example I had no time to level Peri and I needed her as an arena bonus.

 

[Technoweirdo]

Remind me again, what does Prayer do?

Prayer Miracle: 5-charge special. If HP > 1, any would-be lethal blow instead knocks the user down to 1 HP. Will not trigger on non-lethal blows.

Assuming Olwen can learn Shield Pulse (She and other ranged units can't learn Aegis/Pavise, but can learn Prayer Miracle which should be affected by Shield Pulse), you can expect Reinhardt to finally be de-throned as the king of arena defense.

 

[Mupod]

Prayer: 5-charge special. If HP > 1, any would-be lethal blow instead knocks the user down to 1 HP. Will not trigger on non-lethal blows.

That's called Miracle in the English localization.

 

[Technoweirdo]

That's called Miracle in the English localization.

My bad. lol

 

[explodet]

Ohhhhhh, gotcha.

Miracle on a healer? Now that's just crazy talk. (lol)

 

[BuckRobotron]

Shifting my blue hunt to the Alm Army banner for Delthea. Favorite gameplay unit in Echoes, solid skills including DB, might end up with Azura or Hinoka (have neither) if she doesn't show. Oh, and she has a Drive C skill like Roderick. D'oh, and my only good blue mage right now is a maxed hero merit Spring Lucina. Lastly, Sabre's weapon on the other side looks like a Killing Edge ++. Too many solid swords in the hold to try that right now though.

 

[Busaiku]

Ohhhhhh, gotcha.

Miracle on a healer? Now that's just crazy talk. (lol)

Delthea's a mage.

 

[explodet]

Delthea's a mage.

But Miracle's not a new skill - Mist, Lucius and Maria already have it.

Miracle on a Healer being out of place was a joke on my part.

 

[PK Gaming]

I don't really care about the power creep on the slayer weapons (Bow Cordelia was one of the most shameful displays of power creep and nobody cared), but i'm miffed about Cancel Affinity. Buffing oppressive units like Reinhardt and and Bow Cordelia is bad enough, but it's a nerf to niche units who could stand out in the meta. Raven tome users had a sweet edge against these ridiculous ranged units. Not anymore...

 

[Vena]

I don't really care about the power creep on the slayer weapons (Bow Cordelia was one of the most shameful displays of power creep and nobody cared), but i'm miffed about Cancel Affinity. Buffing oppressive units like Reinhardt and and Bow Cordelia is bad enough, but it's a nerf to niche units who could stand out in the meta. Raven tome users had a sweet edge against these ridiculous ranged units. Not anymore...

No one's giving up their B slot for that.

 

[PK Gaming]

No one's giving up their B slot for that.

Uh, yes they will. Especially Rein/Cordelia. What do they even have worth giving up?

Don't you dare say Desperation, I swear to God.

 

[OVDRobo]

There's loads of balance issues with this game but some of the worst are tied to the core game design of small maps.

Anything with range or good movement is significantly better than units without and some of the best units have both. Unlike mainline entries dancers are also incredibly useful here due to the limited space.

Cavalry could get up on you quickly in other games but that just meant they were separated from the rest of the army while here it's like being trapped in a small room with an adept sprinter that wants you dead.

There's a certain point where you have to just live with some of the bad decisions and Reinhardt's one of those. If they consider anomalies like Reinhardt or Bride Cordelia with every decision on what to add to the game then they're going to be really limited in what they can add and potentially close ways that other units can start to match them.

I'd have loved to see Reinhardt be increased to 5* but the damage is already done now. At least Bride Cordelia was a limited time unit. Eventually power creep will nullify both of them like it did Takumi and Hector, but Reinhardt certainly seems to be putting up more of a fight than either of them did because his issues aren't only statistical but also associated with the way the game is designed.

 

[Technoweirdo]

Trying to understand Cancel Affinity
"Any weapon triangle affinity granted by unit's skills is negated" = You can't give give Reinhardt Triangle Adept and Cancel Affinity at the same time. If you could, he'd screw standard reds harder than normal -and- screw over TA greens.

"If affinity disadvantage exists, weapon triangle affinity granted by foe's skills is reversed" = If Reinhardt attacks a TA'd green, the green is screwed. If Reinhardt attacks a regular green, things will be normal. If he attacks a TA'd red, Reinhardt murders himself.

I don't really care about the power creep on the slayer weapons (Bow Cordelia was one of the most shameful displays of power creep and nobody cared), but i'm miffed about Cancel Affinity. Buffing oppressive units like Reinhardt and and Bow Cordelia is bad enough, but it's a nerf to niche units who could stand out in the meta. Raven tome users had a sweet edge against these ridiculous ranged units. Not anymore...

(Predicted) Balance 1: Grays will not be able to inherit Cancel Affinity; They have no affinity to cancel in the first place.
Balance 2: TA Xander.

 

[kewlmyc]

Uh, yes they will. Especially Rein/Cordelia. What do they even have worth giving up?

Don't you dare say Desperation, I swear to God.

Rein will still die to pretty much anything even with Cancel Affinity, he's always been a glass cannon. Or I think so, if I'm understanding what Cancel Affinity does.

Bride Cordelia is a different story, but she's pretty rare to come across due to being a limited character, and almost requiring Life and Death to sweep.

 

[Alucrid]

two new unit banners at once? cmon

 

[theprodigy]

Rein will still die to pretty much anything even with Cancel Affinity, he's always been a glass cannon. Or I think so, if I'm understanding what Cancel Affinity does.

Bride Cordelia is a different story, but she's pretty rare to come across due to being a limited character, and almost requiring Life and Death to sweep.

Killing Reinhardt was never the problem, it's that he ORKOs so much of the cast on initiation, which increases now that TA greens/Emerald Axe users get stuffed by Cancel Affinity.

 

[kewlmyc]

Killing Reinhardt was never the problem, it's that he ORKOs so much of the cast on initiation, which increases now that TA greens/Emerald Axe users get stuffed by Cancel Affinity.

If I understand correctly, doesn't that make his advantage over reds go away as well? It pretty much makes him a colorless.

Okay, I get why this is a problem now.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

two new unit banners at once? cmon

The faster we get through Valentia, the better. :3

 

[_Legacy_]

Just got my 5* Tobin, going to take trials at a more chilled pace for the remainder of the period. I'm only in it for the Phantom Spd seal now.

 

[PK Gaming]

There's loads of balance issues with this game but some of the worst are tied to the core game design of small maps.

I think "loads of balance" issues is a bit of a stretch, and the way the game is set up, you don't really have to worry about the truly broken stuff at standards level of play. There was usually a way around pretty much every threat, hence the reason why this update sucks, because it took some of those options away.

Anything with range or good movement is significantly better than units without and some of the best units have both. Unlike mainline entries dancers are also incredibly useful here due to the limited space.

If anything, Dancer's are weaker in this game compared to mainline entries.

Cavalry could get up on you quickly in other games but that just meant they were separated from the rest of the army while here it's like being trapped in a small room with an adept sprinter that wants you dead.

Cavalry is similarly weaker in this game compared to mainline entries, barring buff set ups.

There's a certain point where you have to just live with some of the bad decisions and Reinhardt's one of those. If they consider anomalies like Reinhardt or Bride Cordelia with every decision on what to add to the game then they're going to be really limited in what they can add and potentially close ways that other units can start to match them.

There's a spectrum though, and I feel as though this ranks among their worst additions.

I'd have loved to see Reinhardt be increased to 5* but the damage is already done now. At least Bride Cordelia was a limited time unit. Eventually power creep will nullify both of them like it did Takumi and Hector, but Reinhardt certainly seems to be putting up more of a fight than either of them did because his issues aren't only statistical but also associated with the way the game is designed.

Hector is still a top unit.

 

[Weebos]

Unlike mainline entries dancers are also incredibly useful here due to the limited space.

Dancers are literally the best units in every single game.

 

[Alucrid]

30 hp seems like it would really hurt mathilda. both mages look interesting, will have to wait or stats though. sword SP skill is nice, might draw for that.

 

[Bovine]

I haven't played Echoes yet (waiting for my brother to finish), so I don't have an attachment to any of these characters so I probably won't pull. Need to save up for choose legends and whenever we get Nephenee.

 

[Wiseblade]

Thinking about it, Triangle Adept is has been the solution to a lot of problematic characters post-SI. Introducing a counter (on the B Slot, no less) just unshackles those monsters again. Good luck dealing with Hector when your TA sword can't delete him anymore. It's actually the worst possible skill to introduce a hard counter to.

 

[Technoweirdo]

I just realized:
"If affinity disadvantage exists, weapon triangle affinity granted by foe's skills is reversed"
So, if Cancel Affinity Bridelia attacks Triangle Adept Gronnraven Cecilia, the following should happen:
1) Gronnraven now gives Cecilia triangle -disadvantage- against grays.
2) Triangle Adept now gives Cecilia +40% Atk when at disadvantage, -40% Atk when at advantage.

Due to having TA while at disadvantage, she magically unfucks herself. If she didn't, she'd be dead. Considering no -raven Cecilia is ever without TA (her defense is bad, okay), this doesn't really change anything for her.

Thinking about it, Triangle Adept is has been the solution to a lot of problematic characters post-SI. Introducing a counter (on the B Slot, no less) just unshackles those monsters again. Good luck dealing with Hector when your TA sword can't delete him anymore. It's actually the worst possible skill to introduce a hard counter to.

The thing about TA is that you'll always have superiority against 1/3rd of the cast. CA will not change that. Hector could be packing CA now to screw over your TA Sanaki when she attacks him, but because all the Reins apparently want to pack CA now too, Sanaki's got a new victim.

 

[Alucrid]

the way i'm reading that skill is that your unit is now neutral. and if you get into combat and the other unit would otherwise have an advantage over you, that is canceled, and they revert to neutral as well. not sure why it would disadvantage any unit since it's just cancel affinity, not reverse affinity

 

[Busaiku]

What good sword user needs Triangle Adept to ORKO Hector.
It's mainly Reinhardt that gets stupider.

 

[Xetherion]

Who didn't... Units you want to bring to lv40 are usually units you care about to earn more SP for, so you are not going to be using crystals for auto level up and miss the SP for kills in training. The only occasion where crystals might be useful are those "use GHB units to kill their lv40 selves" quests.

Units you want to bring ONLY to lv20 however, are usually 3* SI fodders you want to promote to 4* just to be sacrificed immediately after, and shards are perfect for that. I bet most of our fellow F2Ps or small spenders are really low on their shards by now, especially red and blue

I still have thousands of shards. Taking a unit from 1 to 20 is really easy and fast, so i rarely use shards. Except for low ATK units with a -ATK IV, like Odin. Fuck you Odin, you get sharded and sacrificed immediately.

 

[Busaiku]

Why does IS hate Odin.
The other 2 blade tome users are the top of their color.

Owain's gonna be even worse than Tobin, isn't he.

 

[Mupod]

hey for what it's worth I've spent more feathers promoting Odins than any other unit!

 

[bigzgod]

The thing about TA is that you'll always have superiority against 1/3rd of the cast. CA will not change that. Hector could be packing CA now to screw over your TA Sanaki when she attacks him, but because all the Reins apparently want to pack CA now too, Sanaki's got a new victim.

I think you're reading CA wrong.

Any weapon triangle affinity skill granted by unit's skills is negated. If affinity disadvantage exists, weapon triangle affinity granted by foe's skills is reversed.

What that implies is that the unit's benefits from skills that give it a weapon advantage are negated, not the normal weapon triangle. Thus, if the unit has TA or a gem weapon, they no longer get any benefit from those.

On the other side of things, if your opponent has TA or a gem weapon, then the benefits from those are now reversed but only if the weapon triangle was not in your favor to begin with.

So, for example, Reinhardt with CA is attacking a Titania with Emerald Axe+. While normally the Reinhardt would do -20% damage from weapon triangle and another -20% due to Emerald Axe+, with CA, he would be at 0% disadvantage, CA flips the -20% due to Emerald Axe+ to +20%, negating the -20% due to weapon triangle.

I don't think it changes Rein's matchups too much though. Most of what Rein is running into, in terms of counters, aren't running TA or gem weapons, they're running fury, like Julia or Nino. I'm more curious as to how it changes B!Cordelia's matchups. I need to run the numbers on that, unless Roman has them on hand? Can't check it specifically till later on. Swordbreaker vs. CA.

 

[SenorArdilla]

hey for what it's worth I've spent more feathers promoting Odins than any other unit!

Delicious Blarblade+ and Moonbow for everyone.

 

[Busaiku]

Phantom Speed doesn't affect Firesweep weapons, so hopefully the new skill doesn't affect weapons either.

 

[Mupod]

the problem isn't specifically that it makes Reinhardt unstoppable or anything. My counters for him are Cecilia or QP+Sacred Cowl Hector and they remain the same. It's just absurd that the list of things that counter a fully whale-fueled Rein is getting smaller and smaller over time, which is kind of the opposite of what should be happening. If I'd ever found a Titania I planned to give her Distant Counter but that's a bad idea now.

All that said, Panic Ploy is supposed to counter the teams I run but the only times I ever see it are when the training tower or tempest trial put it on surprise random units. A 5*-exclusive skill isn't going to be instantly everywhere like Quickened Pulse was.

 

[Vena]

Uh, yes they will. Especially Rein/Cordelia. What do they even have worth giving up?

Don't you dare say Desperation, I swear to God.

Cordie wants Lancebreaker.

 

[Drkirby]

Phantom Speed doesn't affect Firesweep weapons, so hopefully the new skill doesn't affect weapons either.

Thats because firesweep weapons are unconditional, unlike the sweep skills.

 

[OVDRobo]

Dancers are literally the best units in every single game.

Hmmm. Okay. I rarely use them in mainline games and don't see much talk about them so I assumed they were bad. It was a baseless idea and bad of me to post it. I guess that's why you only get one or two in every game if they are actually so good. This is the first game I've truly noticed their impact just because of how many people use them and how they're usually a common element in successful strategies. Consider me educated and apologetic for the bad post on the subject now.

There's some issues with the game balance but it is pretty good outside of a few outliers like Cavalry and Flier Emblem teams in specific situations such as maps that favour those setups. I don't agree with how easy those setups can make a lot of the single player content but at least the option's there for people that want it. I'll absolutely give that my statement of there being a 'lot of' balance problems was excessive but at the same time there are some awkward limitations created by the systems. Healers, dagger users, armor units and most archers that aren't Bride Cordelia are still significantly less useful than other units.

Most issues I have don't become perceptible until you lack a specific way to deal with a particular problem. Reinhardt's not too problematic if you have a unit like Titania or Julia in the same way Hector's not an issue if you commonly run Sanaki, Roy, or basically most reds with Triangle Adept (though not as much anymore). If you don't have the right unit for the job, though, dealing with them can quickly become a nightmare as they wipe out half of your team. Obviously planning for every possible outcome you can before going in is the ideal solution but there's only so much you can do with 4 unit slots, with bonus units further limiting your options.

The arena only showing the leader of the enemy team makes this problem worse, though I can understand how showing the entire enemy team would also ruin the arena in a different way. It's incredibly frustrating to have a deathless run broken near the end by the one unit that happens to be your Achilles' Heel but most battles can be overcome with good strategy even if you lose a couple of units which is commendable.

I won't lie and say that I don't have any issues with the game and the way it's built but I'm definitely being overly negative about something that I've stuck with since launch. Outside of the Arena the game's still really enjoyable for me and IS does seem to be attempting to tackle any significant issues that they can deal with.

 

[commish]

I haven't been reading up on what's coming in the banner, but is there a consensus yet on who to roll for?

 

[OVDRobo]

I haven't been reading up on what's coming in the banner, but is there a consensus yet on who to roll for?

Mathilda's got the most controversial skill which can nullify Triangle Adept and seems to be a solid unit with an anti-cavalry lance.

Delthea's got a really good buffing tome that gives +6ATK to adjacent melee/breath units.

Blue seems to be the color to pull for regardless of the banner.

Sonya (Green Tome) has the magical version of Wo Dao if that's your thing

 

[SenorArdilla]

Oh hey. Grani's Shield isn't useless anymore.

Dark Aura and Dark Excalibur are probably unique weapons that can't be inherited.

 

[commish]

Mathilda's got the most controversial skill which can nullify Triangle Adept and seems to be a solid unit with an anti-cavalry lance.

Delthea's got a really good buffing tome that gives +6ATK to adjacent melee/breath units.

Blue seems to be the color to pull for regardless of the banner.

Sonya (Green Tome) has the magical version of Wo Dao if that's your thing

Hmm interesting. Thx. Seems like we have some good units coming.

 

[Scum]

Delthea sounds like fun. #DragonEmblem
Cancel Affinity seems interesting. I'm expecting some scrub unit I've been sending home all the time to become exceptional with it in someone else's team. Your time to shine, Raigh! 🔥

 

[HawthorneKitty]

You forgot Sonya is hot.

 

[Technoweirdo]

I think you're reading CA wrong.



What that implies is that the unit's benefits from skills that give it a weapon advantage are negated, not the normal weapon triangle. Thus, if the unit has TA or a gem weapon, they no longer get any benefit from those.

On the other side of things, if your opponent has TA or a gem weapon, then the benefits from those are now reversed but only if the weapon triangle was not in your favor to begin with.

So, for example, Reinhardt with CA is attacking a Titania with Emerald Axe+. While normally the Reinhardt would do -20% damage from weapon triangle and another -20% due to Emerald Axe+, with CA, he would be at 0% disadvantage, CA flips the -20% due to Emerald Axe+ to +20%, negating the -20% due to weapon triangle.

I don't think it changes Rein's matchups too much though. Most of what Rein is running into, in terms of counters, aren't running TA or gem weapons, they're running fury, like Julia or Nino. I'm more curious as to how it changes B!Cordelia's matchups. I need to run the numbers on that, unless Roman has them on hand? Can't check it specifically till later on. Swordbreaker vs. CA.

Hm, that's...one possibility. One I don't like because TA is the backbone of my team. >.> Forget Reinhardt, depending on who can inherit it, every color could be in danger again because -blade tomes hit too hard (See: Ryoma getting killed by Spring Camilla).

Tomorrow will certainly be interesting...

 

[Scum]

You forgot Sonya is hot.

Oh my!