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Fitness |OT5| Intermittent Farting, Wrist Curls and Hammer Strength Machine Spotters
- Thread starter MjFrancis
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Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
Hey man, I'm just now transitioning from weight loss to trying to build up as much as I can.
I'm completely ignorant here, so I'm just doing what I learn from this thread and what I pick up here and there. Kind of piecemeal but that's just how I learn. I gotta throw myself into shit and learn as I go or I'll suffer major analysis paralysis and never start.
Best of luck!
Vol5
Member
If your starting out I can't recommend stronglifts.com enough. You really will see dramatic results in the first year if you keep your focus and leave your ego at the gym door. Most of the boys and girls here are intermediate lifters so their routine probably doesn't apply to you. You'll be wasting your time picking and choosing a routine that they came up with.
Once your at a stage where you don't progress anymore, then you can look to madcow or 5/3/1, or maybe come up with your own routine.
Stronglifts, Starting Strength, whatever beginner routine you choose, this is the important thing. There are a lot if intermediate lifters here, much more than there used to be, and that's great because it shows people are sticking around. I hope it doesn't push away beginners.
SpaceBridge
Member
Finished reading the OP, and I'm even more confused. Basically what I'm getting is that the "magic" is in squats, dead lifts and bench presses. So all the exercises I've been doing, some of my favorites like preacher curls or tricep cable pulldowns I can't do anymore?
Are you kidding me? No way am I going to get in line to do squats and deadlIfts with beasts ahead of me. I can already hear the snickers and feel the rolling eyes.
Are you kidding me? No way am I going to get in line to do squats and deadlIfts with beasts ahead of me. I can already hear the snickers and feel the rolling eyes.
Nobody gives a fuck what you're doing dude. Nobody is rolling their eyes or snickering, the majority simply don't give a fuck and if they do, fuck em.
You aren't seeing results because you aren't doing the big lifts a beginner needs. You want to throw in a set of curls or 2 at the end of a workout? Go for it. Otherwise, they are a waste of your time and will be for the foreseeable future.
You want results? Sack up and quit worrying about people who truly don't care what you're doing. Otherwise, keep spinning your wheels doing what your doing with minimal results.
Let me tell you a story
I used to be like you. I used to worry what others thought so I never bothered with any of the compounds. If I benched it was "benching" on the hammer strength machine (because I was embarrassed I couldn't bench 135) I didn't bother doing overhead press. I occasionally squatted but they were half reps so I could load more weight and he closest thing I'd do to a deadlift with straight leg style with a pre set bar.
Oh but I'd do lots of machines.
After 5 years of this (not always consistent, but 5 years nonetheless) I was still weak. I was skinny fat.
Don't get me wrong, there is a place for those accessory exercises, but you need need need a solid strength base, I promise you.
So almost two years ago I started strong lifts 5x5 and literally started with the bar for everything. I didn't touch any exercise besides squats, deads, ohp, bench and row.
Guess what? After 6 months of only doing those exercises and increasing the weight each week, I tried some old accessory stuff. I could do more weight on every single thing. Why? I was stronger!
Check the ego man. No one gives a shit what weight you do, especially if you have proper form. No one is born a beast. We've all devoted time, blood, sweat and tears into this and honestly, it's those beast men who will give you the best advice.
My advice, start getting under the barbell and just start lifting!!
I'm sure we'll be accused of being mean or something, but this is reality. Nobody is going to make it happen except for you. You can keep saying how the big strong guys make you insecure, but you simply have to get over it because they truly aren't paying any attention to you. Then one day you can be the big strong guy, and you can go out of your way to welcome the newbies at the gym. I do this all the time. It's great.
The 'magic' is that compound lifts are better than isolation exercises if you want to get bigger and stronger.
That doesn't mean you only do those compound lifts. You can create your own workout around those lifts and do the hypertrophic exercises you like. The mistake would be to come into a workout and put all your focus/energy into doing sets of preacher curls and then doing a compound exercise after that.
You can grab dumbbells and do variations of those exercises off in a corner if you are self-conscious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAiTnCVGGYc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmbfG2_o518
Spiritreaver
Member
Ahem.
It's alright to feel really self-conscience about lifting in the main area of the gym and doing the big lifts. Just about everyone in this thread has been there before, including myself. It's juwt something you have to sort of do. The only way you can get over it is if you just do it, and realize.. no one really is judging you for what you're doing.
Most of the "veteran" lifters aren't looking at the newbie lifters actually. They're looking at the other guys who are as big or bigger than them. They may still be judging, but not you. Regardless, screw those guys. They were beginnners too once. They probably got stuck under the bar once, etc.
Try it out, if it still makes you nervous to get to work with the bars. Find someone to lift with you, especially someone knowledgable in lifting. It will do you wonders with getting over confidence issues. Mostly because they'll force you to do it.
Then keep you encouraged. This is how I got started, and got over my initial woes. Not to mention you will learn a lot from them.
It's alright to feel really self-conscience about lifting in the main area of the gym and doing the big lifts. Just about everyone in this thread has been there before, including myself. It's juwt something you have to sort of do. The only way you can get over it is if you just do it, and realize.. no one really is judging you for what you're doing.
Most of the "veteran" lifters aren't looking at the newbie lifters actually. They're looking at the other guys who are as big or bigger than them. They may still be judging, but not you. Regardless, screw those guys. They were beginnners too once. They probably got stuck under the bar once, etc.
Try it out, if it still makes you nervous to get to work with the bars. Find someone to lift with you, especially someone knowledgable in lifting. It will do you wonders with getting over confidence issues. Mostly because they'll force you to do it.
Then keep you encouraged. This is how I got started, and got over my initial woes. Not to mention you will learn a lot from them.Spiritreaver
Member
Man, I haven't had any sleep, so my patience and wording is a little short this morning. You guy's aren't being mean, but there are nicer ways of getting your points across. There is no need to be harsh on people. We're here to help people who probably have little to no background in fitness get started. We're not coaches trying to get a bunch of kids to jump through hoops.
Ahem.
It's alright to feel really self-conscience about lifting in the main area of the gym and doing the big lifts. Just about everyone in this thread has been there before, including myself. It's juwt something you have to sort of do. The only way you can get over it is if you just do it, and realize.. no one really is judging you for what you're doing.
Most of the "veteran" lifters aren't looking at the newbie lifters actually. They're looking at the other guys who are as big or bigger than them. They may still be judging, but not you. Regardless, screw those guys. They were beginnners too once. They probably got stuck under the bar once, etc.
Try it out, if it still makes you nervous to get to work with the bars. Find someone to lift with you, especially someone knowledgable in lifting. It will do you wonders with getting over confidence issues. Mostly because they'll force you to do it.
You know who I'm judging? The scrawny guy doing preacher curls too heavy for him swinging the weight because he isn't able to check his ego and do the real lifts.
The newbie squatting just the bar learning his shit?
That guy is awesome.
I think in this instance where someone is flat out saying they aren't going to do something they should be because "big guys will judge me", there's no nice way to out it. You have to tough up and do it. There really isn't another solution short of investing in your own home gym or going at 3am.
Spiritreaver
Member
I see what you're trying to say, and I agree, but you're going in hand with what I'm calling out. The scrawny guy swinging preachers (do people actually do this? lol) may just not know how to properly do the lift. Yes ego gets in the way, but some people legitimately don't know what they're doing.
I'm not saying go out and give them advice, some people hate that as it makes them feel even more self-conscious. Just don't be so quick to judge.
Also just stop judging altogether.
I just did it.
I should have been more clear. these are guys I have talked to before. I know them. I'm judging them because they won't listen and care more about looking "cool" curling 70lbs than actually getting results. I'm always out to help at the gym, and I absolutely will think less of someone unable to check their ego when what they are doing clearly isn't working.
Guy I don't know doing the same? I'll go explain why what he's doing isn't efficient or working. I'm cool that way.
What you said doesn't look any different to me. Fair enough though.
I guess I'm a content guy, and the content of our posts look the same to me, one is just coated with a bit more sugar and fluff.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Hey brother! Don't feel like that, only a select few Grade A Douche Kings/Queens would do that. Start with the dumbbell variations as you get stronger. Eventually go there and use the bar, get your form right, and you're off brah!
These old exercises you have been doing aren't efficient - they're only working a very small amount of your body as compared to the compound lifts that work MANY muscles in unison and are good for building a strong base. Eventually, a year or two after mastering the main lifts, you can go to those accessory jobs. You can also pepper them in to your main workout, but don't overdo it.
Spiritreaver
Member
This is fine then. OMG I sound so bitchy this morning, lol.
EDIT: In some cases, even in fitness, a little sugar ain't gonna hurt no one!
OMG I sound so bitchy this morning, lol.
Nah, you sound absolutely fine. I enjoy this, as I want to set some standards before the new thread hits.
The links are from YouTubers I watch: OmarIsuf, CanditoTrainingHQ
I would link some of strengthcamp (Elliott Hulse)'s videos but they're pretty long, about 8 minutes+.
They're great compound movement exercises.
No one is going to belittle you in the gym, everyone needs to learn these lifts to get the best results. My friends are long time lifters, they concentrate on using proper form and move onto the next exercise. in the gym, it's you, the weights, and the clock. No one has time or the energy to make you feel bad in the gym.
SpaceBridge
Member
For the record, I check what little ego I have at the door all the time. I'm not the scrawny dude, swaggering his way through the weight room, swinging barbells, making noise and posturing infront of the mirror taking selfies. Infact you'll find me most times at the cable machine quietly doing my thing, trying to get to 12 reps of something, increasing my weights as I go. If I venture into the weight area I'll take the bench farthest from everyone so that I don't get in anyone's way. It's fine that you can make assumptions of me, but I came into the thread (my second attempt) to get honest advice and I would in turn be honest about where I am at, where I wanna be, and the mental state of mind I'm at.
Noone can say that I'm not motivated, because I am. I've invested a lot of time, money, mental energy, sweat into this. I'm just dumbfounded that what's written in the OP is now the opposite of what I've read elsewhere.
For example, how do squats or dead lifts even workout bicep? I get that presses will as a secondary target, but what I thought i knew was that squats were for legs and gluts.
Anyways, I'll hang back for a bit so as not to highjack the thread further.
Noone can say that I'm not motivated, because I am. I've invested a lot of time, money, mental energy, sweat into this. I'm just dumbfounded that what's written in the OP is now the opposite of what I've read elsewhere.
For example, how do squats or dead lifts even workout bicep? I get that presses will as a secondary target, but what I thought i knew was that squats were for legs and gluts.
Anyways, I'll hang back for a bit so as not to highjack the thread further.
Spiritreaver
Member
Well aren't you a familiar face.
Thanks for the early morning flattery Darth! Totally random but nice of you. Haha
And LOL Petrie! You nailed my routine. Well done!
fredrancour
Member
My work sets of bench yesterday were 95.lbs. I am trapped in a treadmill of weakness cause I suck at life in ways that frequently eat my lifting time. I still read and post in this thread.
What they're trying to tell you is that Starting Strength focuses on compound exercises: exercises which hit multiple muscle groups instead of just one like with curls. When you're doing multiple muscle groups you are maximizing your time because you don't have to hit each of them individually. Your abs are engaged when you're doing squats, as well as your quads, hamstrings, lower back, etc. Compound exercises are particularly good for beginners because you have so many "noob gains" ahead of you before it slows down substantially and you have to go to another workout plan where you're isolating your lagging muscles (such as with curls).
You need to focus on getting stronger all over your body in the beginning, not saying I want to look like those guys in the gym that have been doing it for years. You can't get that bicep look like they have, or Cooter has, without getting stronger. You're not going to get that doing curls.
Vol5
Member
When I mentioned ego I meant doing SS / Stronglifts and not deloading when required or cheating to get to 5x5 on a certain exercise. It's something you learn when hitting the gym. You need to be conscious that cheating or not de-loading when required can affect your goals. It wasn't directed to you personally.
Go read stronglifts.com to see what I mean. Mehdi mentions ego a lot. I have to keep it in check regularly.
The biceps work to stablize the bar doing squats. That's about it. Curls can be used as additive to your normal workout if you want growth there.
FallingEdge
Member
Prolly the same dood who said "show me the guy with small legs pulling a 415+ deadlift"
and then Hugh Jackman shows up.
Spiritreaver
Member
Man, did i ever give you guys proper back shots during the backfest?
FallingEdge
Member
what is this sorcery
son i am jealous
son i am jealous
;-p touché
Jesus. I literally mean Jesus because you look like this
kevo_huevo
Member
I think you're hung up on biceps and other (for lack of a better term) vanity muscles. you can still do cable work and curls, but you save that for the end of your workout.
Obviously squats will not directly hit your biceps, but can you do a pull up? That is a universal accessory workout for starting strength and it works your back, forearms, shoulders, biceps, grip etc. Same with dips; you can do cable pull downs but dips will work out your tris, chest and shoulders simultaneously.
The point i think you're missing about starting strength that's been mentioned is that it is efficient because you're hitting multiple muscle groups in single exercises.
Take for instance the deadlift (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlift#Muscles_involved). I don't know what cable machine is going to do that for you in a single exercise.
I don't think anyone here is doubting you lack dedication or effort, we are just trying to help you get more out of your workouts by using a tried and true program that literally works for everyone.
Where did you get your previous fitness advice, if the information in the OP is so shocking to you?
fredrancour
Member
Can't hijack a fitness thread with fitness talk, that's as on topic as can be
1. Squats and deads don't do much for biceps- there's a tiny bit of stabilizing in squats.Nearly everybody picks 1 type of curl to do alongside the basic strength training program. People often add an abs exercise as well. Even people who don't do that at first add them later on.
2. Regardless of your goals some strength training in a compound -centric program helps.
Strength or conditioning: moving your body as a whole in a compound lift is more applicable to outside situations.
Bodybuilding: movements are way more effective at putting on size if you are stronger, and it is easier to put on size on a strength training program than a bodybuilding program.
Extremely casual "want to look more buff" type of bodybuilding is basically the same. A dude w a strong back will look better than a skinny guy with slightly larger than average arms.
Health: more muscles worked = more calories burned and more lean body mass over time, which means a lower body fat percentage at any weight/ food intake level.
3. Doing many variations of arm exercises is completely unnecessary for a beginner.
4. A strong core makes all moves feel better. Can't do curls if your back can't hold you still. Can't bench that way either.
5. The guys busting their asses to do heavy squats and deads w good form are the last ones who will give you shit for getting started at those moves. People do not care how strong you are as long as you use shit for its intended purpose. Don't use the squat rack to do barbell bicep curls, and no one will resent you for existing inside it.
FallingEdge
Member
Speaking of arm work, I started doing incline seated bicep curls.
fantastic.
fantastic.
kevo_huevo
Member
Cards on the table:
The people I judge at the gym are the dudes that load up 225+ on the squat rack / cage and only go down 1/8 of the way...then leave without re-racking their weights.
The people I judge at the gym are the dudes that load up 225+ on the squat rack / cage and only go down 1/8 of the way...then leave without re-racking their weights.
I really like seated incline dumbbell curls. I've just recently started doing triple drop sets for hammercurls.
Spiritreaver
Member
Yep, these and reverse grip curls are a staple in my arm workouts.
just dont even fucking start lifting with that attitude
Did them yesterday! Good ones. Keep those elbows back and stationary and feel the squeeze!
FallingEdge
Member
Spiritreaver
Member
You guys are terrible at this, lol.
BTW, thanks for the compliments guys. Always a WIP.
BTW, thanks for the compliments guys. Always a WIP.
BronzeWolf
Banned
2nd day on hardcore keto. This day is shaping better, I already have more ducks lined up in a row, plus I got my meal already cooked.
Squats result in one of the biggest testosterone releases your body can have. Almost everything you do after a hevy sets of squats 3x5 will be much more effective than if you didn't squat.
So do 3x5 sets of squats, a 3x5 set of bench/overhead press, deadlift a little bit and then go nuts on the curls/chinups/pullups/reverse monkey zillman skull crushers. That's it
Squats result in one of the biggest testosterone releases your body can have. Almost everything you do after a hevy sets of squats 3x5 will be much more effective than if you didn't squat.
So do 3x5 sets of squats, a 3x5 set of bench/overhead press, deadlift a little bit and then go nuts on the curls/chinups/pullups/reverse monkey zillman skull crushers. That's it
FallingEdge
Member
I have to try these on Thursday.
And fuck it, I cheat a bit when on my last few reps of curls. I'm just concerned about getting that weight up.
FEEL THE PUMP.
Measured my arms after leaving the gym. Full pump, arms at 17.5 inches. Can't wait till 18 inches flexed is the norm. It will happen by next year!
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I don't cheat on curls. Ultimate vanity workout, never gonna cheat myself! Keep shit stable. Keep elbows in. Wrists supine. Make it work!
Reverse grip is a whole different ballgame. I gotta swap out my dbs for smaller ones because fuaaark that shit is rough. Pays big dividends though.
Reverse grip is a whole different ballgame. I gotta swap out my dbs for smaller ones because fuaaark that shit is rough. Pays big dividends though.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Any thoughts on barbell moves / squat types that would hit my glutes and hamstrings beyond the basic squat?
as a background, I have now established that my squat form weaknesses - leaning too forward, weight not on heels, reluctance to go deep - all seem to come from the same source, wanting to help with my quads. Having done leg press most of my life instead of squat I am extremely quad dominant, to the point that my wife commented on how disproportionate it looks.
as a background, I have now established that my squat form weaknesses - leaning too forward, weight not on heels, reluctance to go deep - all seem to come from the same source, wanting to help with my quads. Having done leg press most of my life instead of squat I am extremely quad dominant, to the point that my wife commented on how disproportionate it looks.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I do leg curls, not press. My squats are heavy on my quads and not so much on my hamstrings - so I do heavy leg curls, lying down face down, to try to keep up since my squat doesn't give me enough. It's probably bad form, but I try very hard to do good form so it's hard to say.
Heavy fucking glute bridges. Also RDL's
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