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Football Thread 2011/2012 | OT12 | All the clowns were offside...

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J

Jensen

Member
Arnie said:
Commercially, most of all. They're not just interested in spending the money they have, they're interested in investing it in self sustainability, be it through developing their own top talent at a state of the art youth complex, or balancing the books as far as getting rid of players and wages before bringing new ones in, something especially commendable when you've got the temptation to just spend money as and when you feel like it.

Perhaps the comparison wasn't fair, because there's not a whole lot that City do that United don't, I meant you'd give your left nut to be in City's situation in regards to overpaying for wank talent like Bridge, than floating your entire club on the stock market.

There's also a comparison in that City's owners came in with the intention to build a healthy and successful club; United's completely disregarded the former, went straight for the latter, and all in the search of profit.

If that Spurs rumour is true then the Premier League just got a degree more frightening.
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I'm not sure City can ever be self-sustainable after they have shown how much they are willing to pay their top players and I'm also not sure I would like United be run like City, spending such large sums of money that have only ever been rivaled in England by Chelsea each year to chase trophies isn't something I would support.

In an ideal world I would like United to be owned by the fans.
 
A

Arnie

Member
Vivalaraza said:
Well it depends how you look at it really.

As a football club which aims to be successful, they are run wonderfully with strong investment in both the short and long term.

From a business/commercial viewpoint, I don't think it's a template for others to follow exactly. There is massive over-spending and a top heavy balance sheet which requires massive losses like those on Bridge to be corrected. I mean it's not bad, they are trying to grow and they are trying to correct their mistakes, which is all good stuff...just not sure it's a wonderful operation which deserves massive plaudits. They are just doing what any sensible person would do really...thinking about the future, getting rid of waste, and I am sure later on this summer they will show they are still interested in the short-term side of things too.

Anyway, it's a moot point because of the resources they have. Anybody with such strong resources can do this type of thing. I agree they deserve credit because they haven't fallen foul to just spend spend spend a bit like Abramovich did at Chelsea though...but I have to say, I do wonder how much FFP plays a part in that. I'm not sure, their plans are good for the complex around the ground etc.

I'd love to be run like City...well, tbh, not really, not on a day to day basis, because day to day MUFC is fine. I'd just love the £1bn donation. MUFC is a remarkably well run club all in spite of it's debt. Of course the debt is there and I'd rather be in City's position if I had to pick, no doubt...but when it comes to the business side of things, City have a long way to go really, MUFC can't get much better...they just need somebody to get rid of their debt, hence IPO.

Maybe this sounds bitter...maybe I am...but as somebody who's quite interested in football finance, I dunno, City doesn't strike me as a case of a fantastically well run club, just because they have resources which make it very very easy to run. Spurs are a truly well run club with an almost perfect balance between football and finance, living within it's means and growing steadily. All by it's own merit, that's quite commendable - and the way things are going it might be about to pay off for them.
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I agree with what you're saying, but I think as a club bankrolled by almost infinite wealth they're remarkably pragmatic in how, and why, they distribute their money. I don't get the impression that City are a plaything or a source of profit for the owners, but more a passion project.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Jensen said:
I'm not sure City can ever be self-sustainable after they have shown how much they are willing to pay their top players and I'm also not sure I would like United be run like City, spending such large sums of money that have only ever been rivaled in England by Chelsea each year to chase trophies isn't something I would support.

In an ideal world I would like United to be owned by the fans.
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The way Bayern Munich run is the perfect example, I might give my left nut for that.

They have the right balance between fan and business ownership. Barca and RM are owned by fans but even they have really bad business models which only fly because 1) They get an unfair adv in TV rights (if United had this we would be plain sailing spending loads every summer) 2) They have masses of debt, just it's cheap debt due to the laws and governance there.

Bayern know what they're doing. Funnily enough if we ever did clear our debt our model would be close to perfect..
 
K

K1LLER7

Member
So say if United were to ever get rid of this debt, what level of Spending would be available?

As much as the likes of City and Madrid?
 
W

Wessiej

Member
Luuk de Jong is mad at the board of Twente because of their way of negotiating.

He is also saying he only wants to go to Borussia Monchengladbach.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
K1LLER7 said:
So say if United were to ever get rid of this debt, what level of Spending would be available?

As much as the likes of City and Madrid?
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The club would turn over a profit of £100m+ every summer.

It would therefore be possible to spend £100m net every summer on transfers and never make a loss.

And that's at current levels. Revenue is still rising. I think we could actually spend MORE than City or Madrid if we wanted.
 
L

LegoArmo

Member
Vivalaraza said:
The club would turn over a profit of £100m+ every summer.

It would therefore be possible to spend £100m net every summer on transfers and never make a loss.

And that's at current levels. Revenue is still rising. I think we could actually spend MORE than City or Madrid if we wanted.
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Yeah, and I know I might be one of the more positive United fans, but I expect that debt to be gone in the next 4-5 years.
 
K

K1LLER7

Member
Vivalaraza said:
The club would turn over a profit of £100m+ every summer.

It would therefore be possible to spend £100m net every summer on transfers and never make a loss.

And that's at current levels. Revenue is still rising. I think we could actually spend MORE than City or Madrid if we wanted.
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let's hope that this debt can be cleared up soon so the midfield can be sorted lol

Glazers, what a bunch of JT's :(
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
LegoArmo said:
Yeah, and I know I might be one of the more positive United fans, but I expect that debt to be gone in the next 4-5 years.
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K1LLER7 said:
let's hope that this debt can be cleared up soon. Glazers, what a bunch of JT's :(
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Well, let's see, the IPO is key.

I don't think the club will be debt free anytime soon but the main problem isn't the debt, it's the cost of it. Barca and RM have as much debt as we do, they just don't have to finance it. If MUFC can get the debt below half what it is now, the cost of financing it will become much much cheaper and free up alot more money.

Question then is what do the Glazers do. We might have an extra 30/40 million each summer but if they start dipping their hands into it...it's no good for us!
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
That dream scenario outlined above isn't coming about anytime soon so back in the real world, United should look to sell Anderson next.

Kyoufu, still got that £50m?
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Wessiej said:
You sound mad.
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I am mad. This is what I say to De Jong and to Man United rejects:

vakjX.gif
 
L

LanceVance

Member
Eurghhh was meant to be going out with some friends tonight, checked my account and the company we're renting our house from, from august, have taken the deposit so I have no money :(
 
K

kharma45

Member
Vivalaraza said:
That dream scenario outlined above isn't coming about anytime soon so back in the real world, United should look to sell Anderson next.

Kyoufu, still got that £50m?
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Sell him, Berbatov and we're apparently going to get I think 250k or 500k for Amos going on loan, so in total we should get another £10million at worst.

Wouldn't mind trying to flog Macheda for a few million either, every bit counts.
 
F

Feorax

Member
The story in Uraguay seems to be that Gaston Ramirez will be a Liverpool player by Monday.

Won't see me complaining about us signing young, talented Uraguayan internationals.
 
K

kharma45

Member
Jensen said:
Signed him for £4m and made 205 appearances won 4 league titles and a Champion's League with us. Sad to see him go :'(
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He was pretty shite last season though and not much better before, that knee injury he got didn't do him any favours, was never the same player.
 
NekoFever

NekoFever

Member
Baconsaurus said:
Park is 31?! Always assumed he was a young upcoming talent of some sort.
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He was already an established player for South Korea at the 2002 World Cup, and he's been with United for seven seasons now.

I guess he is past his best judging by last season. Still sad to see him go to QPR, though.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
kharma45 said:
Sell him, Berbatov and we're apparently going to get I think 250k or 500k for Amos going on loan, so in total we should get another £10million at worst.

Wouldn't mind trying to flog Macheda for a few million either, every bit counts.
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Apparently Juve are gonna give us €1m for Pogba too cos they can't be bothered with the whole tribunal! :D

I think we can get £5m for Berbatov and Anderson a piece so yeah, something like £15m overall in sales pays for Shinji.

Jensen said:
Signed him for £4m and made 205 appearances won 4 league titles and a Champion's League with us. Sad to see him go :'(
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Yep he's been awesome. It'll be sad to see him playing for a relegation battling side but it's good for him I think. He stays in the PL and at 31 he is still capable of playing at a high standard. Better than staying here are not playing in any meaningful games and then being out of sorts at 33/34. He can help QPR stay up now hopefully.
 
B

Baconsaurus Rex

Member
NekoFever said:
He was already an established player for South Korea at the 2002 World Cup, and he's been with United for seven seasons now.

I guess he is past his best judging by last season. Still sad to see him go to QPR, though.
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I have no memory of seeing him play before the 2009/2010 season. Weird.
 
H

Hixx

Member
image.php


u hi bro

also dubstep is still shit, still can't believe that when judge jules fucked off the BBC thought it'd be ok to replace him with skream and benga who are as charismatic as a crisp wrapper thats been spaffed in
 
J

Jensen

Member
kharma45 said:
He was pretty shite last season though and not much better before, that knee injury he got didn't do him any favours, was never the same player.
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Oh I agree with you he didn't have a great season last year just thought he had a chance of retiring with us or at least one more season then going to play back in S. Korea. It won't be right seeing him playing against us.

Losing him and Berba in one transfer window is too much too take :(

The only way this could get worse is if Bebe hands in a transfer request.
 
I

immy

Banned
Kyoufu said:
Does it really matter when you're out of the tournament in the group stages anyway?
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It's still the fucking champions league. Thats the pinnacle. I would rather play for them then live in fucking newcastle of all places and have no chance of ever playing in the champions league.
 
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