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Football Thread |OT12| Kicked the Ballboy Like Stan Hit Ulrika

B

Blablurn

Member
Kenka said:
Does GAF remember this guy ? He used to look a bit better in the past (hint: the vintage Bayern from Blablurn gave me the idea to submit this post):

123621-effenberg-traut-moenchengladbach-den-titel-zu.jpg
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Legend
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
From what I've seen of Coutinho, I wouldn't necessarily rate him above what I've seen of Assaidi, who never got a proper look-in (probably didn't look good enough in training), but there's certainly nothing wrong with being excited about signing a new flair player. I'm excited to see what he's got but I'm tempering my expectations over any immediate impact.

He wasn't signed because we're desperate in that position (LW), he was signed because Inter really wants that Paulinho boy and we're taking advantage of the circumstances to get a good deal.

Even with Downing playing well, and Borini back from injury, we're still light on attacking options, regardless. As far as new signings go I couldn't ask for much more, knowing what I know about Cou.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Duncan Castles' post on Bale makes hilarious reading. Hope it's true.

Gareth Bale's future at Tottenham Hotspur has been called into question by Daniel Levy's reluctance to invest significant resources in strengthening the club's first-team squad. Plans are being drawn up to sell the Wales international to provide cash for the summer purchase of an elite centre-forward.

Despite making a net profit on a set of transfers that included Luka Modric's £30million-plus switch to Real Madrid at the beginning of this season, Tottenham chairman Levy has refused to sanction spending on any fee over £10m this window to help secure a Champions League qualifying place. As a result Andre Villas-Boas' number one target, Brazil centre forward, Leandro Damiao has been deemed too expensive.

Rather than accept a lower-cost alternative – Levy looked at Loic Remy before the France international signed for Queens Park Rangers – it is understood that Villas-Boas has proposed that spending be delayed until the close season when Damiao is expected to be attainable.

The most obvious potential source of funds is Bale, whose agents have been laying the groundwork for a move to La Liga for some time. The Welshman has been positioned as a successor to Cristiano Ronaldo, bearing the same attributes of power, pace and attacking threat from the left wing. With Ronaldo unhappy with his treatment at Real Madrid and openly discussing the possibility of leaving the Santiago Bernabeu, Bale's transfer there represent a solution that could suit all parties.

Tottenham are also acting conservatively in seeking cover for Sandro's loss to a ruptured anterior cruciate ligament. A second attempt at signing Joao Moutinho from FC Porto is described as “impossible” after the final-hour collapse of €30m deal on August's deadline day. The Portugal international is both too expensive and too important to his current club.

Instead, Villas-Boas has asked Levy to work on bringing forward Lewis Holtby's arrival from Schalke 04. The Germany international has already agreed a contract for next season when his Bundesliga contract expires. Rather than FIFA-mandated training compensation, Tottenham will have to pay Schalke a transfer fee to take the 22-year-old this month.
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Spurs gambling on a striker with the Bale money is comedy dynamite.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
I was about to disagree and say that was hyperbolic, but I think it might be true. There'll be plenty of better players, but more complete? I'm not sure.

In his prime:

Pace
Strength
Heading
Shooting
Passing (long and short)
Finishing
Positioning
Anticipation
Tackling
Workrate

Had it all in abundance. If he could have been a bit more of a vocal Roy Keane type captain, he'd have been basically perfect.
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0 league titles.

He's got it all.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Salazar said:
These are effectively the same thing.

The "completeness" argument applied broadly is a bit of a duff really, because players in Gerrard's position get substantially more opportunities to get involved in play in different ways.

I'd probably say Gullit, off the top of my head.
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I haven't seen nearly enough of Gullit to disagree, so fair enough. I do disagree with the other points though.

Shooting: Shots from areas where you wouldn't be expected to score. Mainly from outside the box.
Finishing: Shots where you would be expected to score

For instance, in his time with us Torres' general shooting was average, but his finishing was exceptional, if that makes sense. Van Persie/Lampard/Rooney in the old days are/were great at both. In fairness, most players who are good at long shots are also good at finishing, if they get in the box enough. There's a distinction to be drawn though

Positioning: Making sure you are open to passes/consistently in a position to influence the game. Think Alonso or Busquets
Anticipation: Judging where a loose ball will end up, where the holes will be in the opposition's defense, when a defender will dally on the ball, when the ball will arrive in the box and how best to get yourself free to pick up on it. This is where Lampard really excels, perhaps to the greatest degree in the league outsude of strikers.

Allen is good at making himself open at all times, but a little slow on the uptake at anticipating moves and loose balls.

And I don't agree at all with the notion that Gerrard's position makes it easy for him to display his skills. For a start, he's played in 3 sustained positions in his career (CM,AM,RW,) and in each of those positions he's been the same, showing all of these abilities week-in, week-out.

And I've seen hundreds of others play for us, against us, in other leagues, for other countries. And you know what I've never thought? I've never thought 'that guy reminds me of Gerrard.' There've been plenty of players who've scored a long goal or two, peppered us with dangerous crosses, sprinted from one box to the other time after time, game after game. But I've never seen one do it all, and do it so often.

And that's why I love Steven Gerrard :p



odd_morsel said:
From what I've seen of Coutinho, I wouldn't necessarily rate him above what I've seen of Assaidi, who never got a proper look-in (probably didn't look good enough in training), but there's certainly nothing wrong with being excited about signing a new flair player. I'm excited to see what he's got but I'm tempering my expectations over any immediate impact.

He wasn't signed because we're desperate in that position (LW), he was signed because Inter really wants that Paulinho boy and we're taking advantage of the circumstances to get a good deal.

Even with Downing playing well, and Borini back from injury, we're still light on attacking options, regardless. As far as new signings go I couldn't ask for much more, knowing what I know about Cou.
Click to expand...

Plus we have at least 4 games left in the Europa League, need a big squad. Real shame we ballsed up our Carling Cup prospects after a favourable draw. A bit frightened that we're gonna do the same today
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
Mental side of Gerrard's game has never been great IMO. Alonso was crucial in that Liverpool side because he knew how to set a tempo and dictate a game - something Gerrard can't do.

Sensational player mind. I'd probably go along with most complete. He could play anywhere and be at least decent.
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
I always thought Gerrard and Michael Ballack were pretty similar players. It's a real shame Ballack didn't win more than he did, truly exceptional player.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Vivalaraza said:
Mental side of Gerrard's game has never been top level IMO. Alonso was crucial in that Liverpool side because he knew how to set a tempo and dictate a game - something Gerrard can't do.

Sensational player mind. I'd probably go along with most complete. He could play anywhere and be at least decent.
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Its a weird one with Gerrard. He's a bit childlike in his mentality. He needs to be told in no uncertain terms that he can't do everything alone. Look at him earlier in the season, playing like the classic 'Hollywood Stevie,' taking too many risks that leave us exposed when they fail, trying to be too clever, playing the hardest pass rather than the best one.

For the last 2 months or so, he's been calmed down and is playing like what he is, an astounding player who doesn't quite have the legs and in-game consistency to do it all on his own any more. Both he, and the team are better off for him playing like this. Not to mention that its helping Lucas on his injury return, nothaving to single-handedly deal with every opposition midfielder because both of his teammates have been caught too high up.

edit: As much as I like to have a pop at Lampard, England were blessed to have him and Gerrard at their peaks, at the same time. Crying shame that no manager ever bothered to look for a system to accomodate them in a functioning team, preferring to shove them together with seemingly little tactical instruction.
 
S

Salazar

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
I don't agree at all with the notion that Gerrard's position makes it easy for him to display his skills. For a start, he's played in 3 sustained positions in his career (CM,AM,RW,) and in each of those positions he's been the same, showing all of these abilities week-in, week-out.
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Not "easy for him", but buccaneering midfielders get something of a bonus in discussions of "completeness".
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Salazar said:
Not "easy for him", but buccaneering midfielders get something of a bonus in discussions of "completeness".
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I'd say he was buccaneering because he was complete, rather than vice versa :p

Toure is theoretically complete, doesn't show it nearly enough though imo. He should be dominating teams every week, but he doesn't come close to doing that. Silva and Barry keep City on the front foot more than Yaya imo


Murray wins first set!
 
V

Vivalaraza

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
Its a weird one with Gerrard. He's a bit childlike in his mentality. He needs to be told in no uncertain terms that he can't do everything alone. Look at him earlier in the season, playing like the classic 'Hollywood Stevie,' taking too many risks that leave us exposed when they fail, trying to be too clever, playing the hardest pass rather than the best one.

For the last 2 months or so, he's been calmed down and is playing like what he is, an astounding player who doesn't quite have the legs and in-game consistency to do it all on his own any more. Both he, and the team are better off for him playing like this. Not to mention that its helping Lucas on his injury return, nothaving to single-handedly deal with every opposition midfielder because both of his teammates have been caught too high up.

edit: As much as I like to have a pop at Lampard, England were blessed to have him and Gerrard at their peaks, at the same time. Crying shame that no manager ever bothered to look for a system to accomodate them in a functioning team, preferring to shove them together with seemingly little tactical instruction.
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Lampard and Gerrard would only have worked in a 4-3-3, or if Gerrard played off the striker (what I would have done). Unfortunately were still addicted to 442.

Lampard is brilliant but he should not have been put into the team as quick as he was. Scholes should have played behind Gerrard with a defensive screen next to him.
 
D

Darth Sonik

we need more FPS games
The fact that Gerrard was such an athletic player allowed him to be sloppy mentally but recover well.

The last couple of seasons showed that up, as he couldn't get away with that anymore.

The last few months have seen him adapting well at last to being "mortal". He now plays a much more sensible game.
 
D

DominoKid

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
edit: As much as I like to have a pop at Lampard, England were blessed to have him and Gerrard at their peaks, at the same time. Crying shame that no manager ever bothered to look for a system to accomodate them in a functioning team, preferring to shove them together with seemingly little tactical instruction.
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because neither of them know how to orchestrate a damn midfield.
sure they're good at getting about, tackling, hollywood balls & potshots. highlight stuff.
but as an actual midfield? forget about it.

one day england will learn.
 
FootballFan

FootballFan

Member
Vivalaraza said:
Yaya Toure is pretty much "complete" too.

Good with both feet and running with the ball too.
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And he can play pretty much anywhere except GK or wing. Don't know about striker either.

Strong, once he starts running he is hard to stop, pretty good dribbler, nice shot too etc. But this is why I always laugh at "more complete" arguments.

Maradona wasn't complete, doesn't change the fact he is one of the best of all time.

Adriano at Barca can play literally anywhere except goalkeeper, has a fantastic right and left foot, and is at least decent at most things.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
DominoKid said:
because neither of them know how to orchestrate a damn midfield.
sure they're good at getting about, tackling, hollywood balls & potshots. highlight stuff.
but as an actual midfield? forget about it.

one day england will learn.
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Then they should have had a DM put behind them, or Gerrard should have been given a free role on the right, or behind 1 striker. It was obvious from day 1 that both of them would have benefitted hugely from that. Although tbf, at the time England were pretty fucked for DMs (still are when Parker and Barry retire). Hargreaves was the only one, Parker was average at the time and Barry had not been tried as DM yet (I think)
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Salazar said:
Duncan Castles' post on Bale makes hilarious reading. Hope it's true.



Spurs gambling on a striker with the Bale money is comedy dynamite.
Click to expand...

Utter guff. We're going to sell Bale, buy a £30m striker and then what? Play Andros Townsend on the left? If we do sell Bale it will be for £50m+ and we will be able to buy 3 good players with the money. We tried to spend £25m on Moutinho in the summer, we didn't need to sell Bale to do that.

I don't have a problem with Levy not spending in January, it's a terrible time to buy and we can't afford to waste money. Good value signings like Hotlby, Diame, or Hooper are perfectly rational. Waiting till the summer when price will be lower and CL money might be available, makes sense.
 
T

The_Hitcher89

Member
Ushojax said:
Utter guff. We're going to sell Bale, buy a £30m striker and then what? Play Andros Townsend on the left? If we do sell Bale it will be for £50m+ and we will be able to buy 3 good players with the money.
Click to expand...

I'd say you'd be better off with 2 than 3. Upgrades should be the name of the game at Spurs, rather than expansion. Although you could do with some backup on the wings I think
 
K

kingellesar

Member
Ushojax said:
Utter guff. We're going to sell Bale, buy a £30m striker and then what? Play Andros Townsend on the left? If we do sell Bale it will be for £50m+ and we will be able to buy 3 good players with the money.
Click to expand...

Indeed, if we took our time and held out with a deal for Modric, I am pretty sure we will do the same with Bale. I really think Bale will stay for another season maybe two though, just had a kid, settled down, still learning and developing.
 
B

Bumhead

Banned
rodvik said:
I think he may get sacked, fan pressure may force it after another month of terrible results. But I also think he is not really the problem. I dont know what the problem actually is, we are very light in quality in midfield thats for sure, but beyond that our players are really not that bad.

Just something has been on a downward path for a few years now. I am really not sure what it is.

Maybe this is what relegated teams feel like? I dont know.
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This is frightningly what it was like when we were relegated from the Premiership. It was quite a gradual thing over many seasons, with people only really able to pinpoint why everything went wrong years later retrospectively. Over the course of the 90's we replaced a very good, top end Premiership side and great managers (Big Ron, Tricky Trev) with an average mid table side and poor-to-average managers (Pleat), and then again with a poor side with a bad manager (Danny Wilson). It was just a relatiely slow trickle of increased mediocrity over the course of about 8 years, until people said we were too big to go down but we certainly weren't good enough to stay up.

I can see similarities, certainly. I remember being pissed off at finishing 15th in the Premier League. 12 years of Championship and League One football with almost going extinct later, I'd chop by left bollock off for that.
 
C

confuziz

Banned
KidA Seven said:
Some dutch guy on 4chan just mentioned the same thing.

Never seen this guy play.

Tell me more.


Edit: He has scored 15 goals in 16 matches.
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He is the new drogba. Maybe even better. Scores goals like its nothing and he is as strong as toure or drogba (he is ivorian ofcourse)
Code:
 
K

kingellesar

Member
The_Hitcher89 said:
I'd say you'd be better off with 2 than 3. Upgrades should be the name of the game at Spurs, rather than expansion. Although you could do with some backup on the wings I think
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I think we need a back up pacey winger although Townsend still has potential. When Bale goes I do fear for us, we were crying out for a lw since Ginola and it will be a struggle to replace him but I have faith we can find someone. We always seem to find someone who slots in well. Apart from Sigurdsson :(
 
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