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[Lunatic_Gamer]

You know how that old song goes – you say 120fps, I say 60fps / you say ray tracing, I say I'm so bored, I just fell asleep / let's call the whole thing off! Something like that. That's what it might as well be now that multiple industry leaders, including former PlayStation Indies head Shuhei Yoshida, agree that gaming technology has hit a big brick wall.

"Graphics [have] almost hit the level that even I cannot tell the difference between some of the [graphical capabilities] like ray traced or not ray traced, unless it's side by side, or higher frame rate," Yoshida says during a recent episode of Skill Up's Friends Per Second podcast.

Not long ago, former Sony CEO Shawn Layden expressed a similar sentiment, wondering, "How many of us can really tell the difference between 90 frames per second and 120 frames per second?" Even PlayStation design consultant Mark Cerny – who's worked with Sony through multiple console cycles and helped create the PS4 and PS5 – feels like "the current approach" to ray tracing and lighting "has reached its limit."

Continuing this point, Yoshida says about PlayStation that, "clearly they just cannot do the same thing they have been doing, [which] is increasing the graphics power and providing high-end experiences."

With the superheroic power of the PS5, though, that may not be the worst thing ever. Yoshida explains: "I think PS5 is amazing system in terms of quality of experience. I think the adoption of SSD was like an almost miracle."

"I think PS5 and SSD has made almost every game a better game," he concludes.

Source:

Ex PlayStation exec says Sony can't keep "increasing the graphics power" with new consoles after tech plateau, but PS5 has already "made almost every game a better game"

Shuhei Yoshida says he "cannot tell the difference" between new tech

www.gamesradar.com

 

[yogaflame]

VR is the real future of gaming especially with gaming is becoming stagnant and plateauing. Sony needs to go back to focusing on PSVR2 become it has so many potentials still untapped. Even with the upcoming ps6, Sony needs to focus back on VR tech and most of all make it much more affordable.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

A generation of graphical stagnation isn't AS bad as it sounds. I'd argue Nintendo would have never made someone of their best games ever if it wasn't for it (I'm talking some Wii and Switch games)

 

[R3TRO]

Get better glasses old man.

 

[bitbydeath]

Alternate thread title: Shu confirms ray-tracing is pointless

 

[LectureMaster]

With the superheroic power of the PS5, though, that may not be the worst thing ever. Yoshida explains: "I think PS5 is amazing system in terms of quality of experience. I think the adoption of SSD was like an almost miracle."

"I think PS5 and SSD has made almost every game a better game," he concludes.

Making 60 fps as the console standard is the hugest improvement this gen.

In this regard, both PS5 and Xbox Series X are amazing devices.

 

[Loomy]

Efficiency is the name of the game now. Not just consoles, but gaming in general.

 

[rm082e]

For the graphics hardware, he's right. The tech for pure raster has hit the point of demising returns. Focus on making 60fps the standard for consoles, integrating RT and upscaling tech as those are where we'll see the most advances over the next few years.

As for his comments about the SSD in the PS5, okay fine. Sure it's a huge improvement over the old HDDs in the previous consoles. Having played on a PC with an SSD for years, the PS5 doesn't seem any better to me personally. But if it's a help to developers, cool. It's been nice to see external drives drop in price quickly.

 

[Senua]

SlimySnake lol

 

[Sertyak]

Going from raster lightning to path tracing is the last generational jump as far as lightning goes. So after PS6 there will be small jumps, but we still have one at least.

 

[Senua]

Alternate thread title: Shu confirms ray-tracing is pointless

You'll change your tune when Gran Turismo 8 uses RTGI

 

[yogaflame]

Going from raster lightning to path tracing is the last generational jump as far as lightning goes. So after PS6 there will be small jumps, but we still have one at least.

Ready player one movie already showed it. VR is the real future of gaming.

 

[Sebastian1295]

Shu and shawn layden are two former playstation guys who just love to hear themselves talk nowadays.

 

[Topher]

"the adoption of SSD was like an almost miracle"

 

[nial]

My PS6 Portable is READY!

 

[larrybrady]

Making 60 fps as the console standard is the hugest improvement this gen.

In this regard, both PS5 and Xbox Series X are amazing devices.

So true…. I hope they add in more 120fps options too next gen

 

[bender]

Shu and shawn layden are two former playstation guys who just love to hear themselves talk nowadays.

Leave @yosp alone.

 

[phant0m]

weird, because the graphics power in my PC gets WAY better every 5 years or so (which is shorter than a console generation)

to his point though, the days of spankin' new graphical/visual features is on the way out - name of the game now should be framerate and image quality

aslo bf6 proved you can still have a great looking game w/o RT and it fucking runs well to boot

 

[Clintizzle]

Ready player one movie already showed it. VR is the real future of gaming.

Technological innovations are too reliant on the Porn industry to make advancements. VR gaming will not improve until VR porn improves.

 

[ReBurn]

"the adoption of SSD was like an almost miracle"

Cerny invented it just in time to save gaming.

 

[lh032]

visuals will get harder and harder to differentiate especially for the casual consumers out there, especially with the advancement of these image reconstruction AI,
I think manufacturers of these GPU hardware needs to take note on this .

 

[BennyBlanco]

VR is the real future of gaming especially with gaming is becoming stagnant and plateauing. Sony needs to go back to focusing on PSVR2 become it has so many potentials still untapped. Even with the upcoming ps6, Sony needs to focus back on VR tech and most of all make it much more affordable.

PSVR2 is a huge flop. They are much better off making a real handheld.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

So no need to buy a ps6 if you own a ps5 then..

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Alternate thread title: Shu confirms ray-tracing is pointless

It's not pointless it just requires them to charge a lot more for the console than most people would pay.

They got to scale down their fist party games and just focus on quantity as well as quality.

I think Ghost of Yotei is a great game and sequel plus the approach of incremental improvements is better and more sustainable versus trying to go all out with graphics on every new game, that strategy is too expensive and games take to long to make with that strategy.

 

[SuperC]

Sony is in a similar position to Capcom last generation when they stumbled with Panta Rahi, For them to produce current generation level games with denser environments and better lighting they need to create something similar to nanite and lumen and it seems they don't have what it takes to achieve this

 

[Team Skoda]

VR is the real future of gaming especially with gaming is becoming stagnant and plateauing. Sony needs to go back to focusing on PSVR2 become it has so many potentials still untapped. Even with the upcoming ps6, Sony needs to focus back on VR tech and most of all make it much more affordable.

I get laughed at or eye rolled every time I bring this up, but it is inevitable. It's the true path of reaching a holodeck level of immersion, which is the future of digital interactivity whether people like it or not.

 

[Deerock71]

Nintendo rn:

 

[Unknown?]

"the adoption of SSD was like an almost miracle"

It was. It's incredibly jarring anytime I go back to PS4/3 hardware. I can't believe loading times like that were acceptable.

 

[StereoVsn]

I wish we had improvements in physics, including interactivity with the environment, scalability, crowd and city sizes and more.

Basically take Cyberpunk but make it a ton more interactive, with much better NPC AI, throw in path tracing and run that at 120hz. All in a $600-700 console.

At that point we can talk about diminishing returns.

 

[Crayon]

Honestly the frame rates and load times made this gen a bigger jump than last for me. That one was mostly new effects, which were great for looks, but were not as huge an improvement in comparison.

 

[Loomy]

Sony is in a similar position to Capcom last generation when they stumbled with Panta Rahi, For them to produce current generation level games with denser environments and better lighting they need to create something similar to nanite and lumen and it seems they don't have what it takes to achieve this

Those aren't exactly comparable. Capcom couldn't get Panta Rhei where they wanted it to be, so they built RE Engine instead. Closest approximation would be Square Enix with Luminous. Except Square actually released a couple games and then decided to go 3rd party engine instead of building another proprietary engine.

No one else has anything like Lumen/Nanite right now. I'm sure a lot of them are building similar technologies for their next gen engine. But Sony does not have an engine problem. They have Decima, whatever Sucker Punch is using, and Naughty Dog's engine. They're fine in that sense.

As for his comments about the SSD in the PS5, okay fine. Sure it's a huge improvement over the old HDDs in the previous consoles. Having played on a PC with an SSD for years, the PS5 doesn't seem any better to me personally. But if it's a help to developers, cool. It's been nice to see external drives drop in price quickly.

I know Sony put SSD on the box, but the design and efficiency of the IO is what is really special about the PS5.

 

[TrebleShot]

Eh the SSD tech was impressive at first but then the games started coming to PC and you could run ratchet and clank with the portal
Switching off an sd card on the steam deck so...I dunno


It was alot cooler at launch cos you had those quick launch cards and the square to jump back in button actually did jump you back in. Now not so mucb

 

[Guardian Monkey]

 

[Haint]

VR is the real future of gaming especially with gaming is becoming stagnant and plateauing. Sony needs to go back to focusing on PSVR2 become it has so many potentials still untapped. Even with the upcoming ps6, Sony needs to focus back on VR tech and most of all make it much more affordable.

You will get a lot of old men clowns laughing with a 40+ year old controller design in their fat hands playing the same games on their 80+ year old display technology. Meanwhile stuff like RE4:R/Village VR and Alyx are objectively and unquestionably the best entertainment experiences you can buy for any price.

 

[Durin]

With the superheroic power of the PS5, though, that may not be the worst thing ever. Yoshida explains: "I think PS5 is amazing system in terms of quality of experience. I think the adoption of SSD was like an almost miracle."

"I think PS5 and SSD has made almost every game a better game," he concludes.

Weird wording, because everything uses SSDs now, and the standard was around for years before their console. The actual meaningful contribution was using the gen4 standard right as it launched, and their custom I/O helping remove CPU overhead for streaming/decompressing game assets.

I do think for the average normie out there graphics are hitting a plateau, where many of them won't notice or will care enough about new increases from the next machines. They'll need some other benefit like making a competative handheld, some innovative/efficient use of AI going beyond upscaling (physics, collission, etc.), or meaningful service addition to their console ecosystem.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Didn't this guy get fired because he spearheaded the VR disaster at PlayStation? I'm pretty sure I read that.

 

[genesisblock]

If his benchmark is RT on the PlayStation? Yeah, I can't take him seriously. He should see it compared to a maxed out PC version as ALWAYS!

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Give me better service offerings plus QoL and I'll be set.
And maybe a non-stuttering game engine (Decima > UE).

 

[Valonquar]

Japan has a real surplus of guys named Yoshida with some hot takes on video games.

 

[NickFire]

I agree on ssd being huge for console.

 

[consoul]

Let's go CPU!
Time to increase complexity, not visual fidelity.

 

[Topher]

It was. It's incredibly jarring anytime I go back to PS4/3 hardware. I can't believe loading times like that were acceptable.

Yeah....great load times, but that's all it was. That is not miraculous

 

[realcool]

They'll keep boosting the price, though.

 

[Pagusas]

VR is the real future of gaming especially with gaming is becoming stagnant and plateauing. Sony needs to go back to focusing on PSVR2 become it has so many potentials still untapped. Even with the upcoming ps6, Sony needs to focus back on VR tech and most of all make it much more affordable.

So long as VR headsets continue to be bulky, off putting to wear and tethered, they will not take off or become mainstream.

The tech needs to advance (along with battery tech) to support almost sunglasses level of weight, comfort and eas of wearing. Then it will take off. We are still years away from that.

 

[Syphon Filter]

ps5 is not a big improvement over ps4. all the games look like ps4 games.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I think this is bullshit. Like that kinda bullshit that just sounds good and thoughtful but is bullshit none the less.

We still have a loooong way to go. And graphics arent just about pretty pixels or photorealisim, its actualy about immersion. And the real leaps will; come from building proper immersive worlds. Like not having to run around looking for a key to open a wooden door when you have a shotgun on your shoulder.

But the main reason I think this is bullshit, is because as far as gaming goes, graphics has always just been a compliument to good/great gaming experiences, thats always been the case, and will always be the case. The Order isnt reverred as one of the best ganmes ever because all it had was pretty graphics.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

VR is the real future of gaming especially with gaming is becoming stagnant and plateauing. Sony needs to go back to focusing on PSVR2 become it has so many potentials still untapped. Even with the upcoming ps6, Sony needs to focus back on VR tech and most of all make it much more affordable.

VR makes most people sick.

It'll always be niche.

 

[daninthemix]

I propose we merge all threads like this into a single official "Man Says Thing" thread to cut down on clutter.