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[Jubenhimer]

Shawn Layden, former chairman of Sony Interactive's Worldwide Studios division, stated that he feels current AAA development is an unsustainable model.

Former PlayStation Boss Says AAA Game Development Is Unsustainable

With AAA games costing as much as $150 million to develop, Shawn Layden says the model is "just not sustainable."

www.gamespot.com

He also says he'd like to see 12-15 hour AAA games return.

I can see where he's coming from, and don't disagree to an extent. AAA development is risky, and increasingly expensive. But that doesn't mean they should go away. People like big games, and big games will always be made. I'd personally hate to see AAA games go away.

That said, I think the solution is very simple, diversify the investments. Betting all your eggs on on a $80 million beast isn't very wise. Make sure you have less costly, but still profitable games to help bring in revenue that can continue to make these AAA releases. I hate EA, but credit where credit is do, they have one of the better setups for a major publisher, having a Main label for expensive AAA titles, and an EA Originals label for smaller, independently developed games.

I also think there should be less AAA games each year as well. Have something like the film industry, where either the Summer or Holiday is where nearly all the AAA games get released, then have the rest of the year filled with different kinds of games. A system like this can maintain variety, without compromising quality.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yeah it's definitely more risky for AAA games nowadays that's why I love when good games sell well

 

[JLMC469]

Their 1st party output this gen must have been expensive.

 

[BlackM1st]

Yeah, I agree, because developers can't survive on the current market where they are stuck between paying customers idiotic premise that all games should cost no more than 60$ and all DLC should be free/supported for years and even more idiotic F2P players wanting same support, but 4 free. Look at GTA Online. Game is filled with by design griefing only to make you say fuck it and buy a shark card. I would gladly pay for subscription or private PVE servers. But obviously I'm in the minority.

 

[Bryank75]

They made more profit this generation than any other.... so the model is working for Sony. Maybe 3rd parties are becoming unsustainable but 1st party are worth it and have made PlayStation a financial juggernaut compared to other gaming companies.

 

[Inviusx]

Sadly true, unless you have the full support and backing of a first party there is too much risk to go all in these days.

 

[Grinchy]

Not every movie costs $200M to make. Plenty of room in this industry for low and mid tier products. This idea that only AAA games matter is strange.

You can still get the "Whiplash" of games from an unsuspected source on a low budget. And it is hopefully easier than ever with the new systems.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Bring on smaller more innovative games with an emphasis on multiplayer!

I've always thought people burning through a 20 hour AAA single player game, then never touching it again, was insane.

This is a great thing.

 

[Andodalf]

I wonder how many copies a game like GoT needs to sell to turn a profit

 

[Bryank75]

I also said they should buy that dev who made Temtem.....that would be cheap to develop and really advance that genre. Pokemon has really stagnated.

 

[Jubenhimer]

They made more profit this generation than any other.... so the model is working for Sony. Maybe 3rd parties are becoming unsustainable but 1st party are worth it and have made PlayStation a financial juggernaut compared to other gaming companies.

First party games tend to enjoy more leeway since AAA games from platform holders are made to sell consoles first and foremost. Third party games don't really have that luxury with AAA, it's big or fail to them.

Not every movie costs $200M to make. Plenty of room in this industry for low and mid tier products. This idea that only AAA games matter is strange.

You can still get the "Whiplash" of games from an unsuspected source on a low budget. And it is hopefully easier than ever with the new systems.

The 8th generation actually was pretty great in this regard. The switch to PC-based architecture lowered the barrier of entry for smaller studios, and thus we now have 6-man indies doing what would've needed $30 million in the 360 days, on only a fraction of the cost.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Yeah that's the whole principle of Game Pass. Pretty sure Sony will come with a similar service this gen, they have so many studios, it doesn't make sense to let them all develop long AAA titles.

 

[KURDISTAN YPG]

Bring on smaller more innovative games with an emphasis on multiplayer!

I've always thought people burning through a 20 hour AAA single player game, then never touching it again, was insane.

This is a great thing.

This is exactly why we see bullshit loot boxes and microtransaction and seasonal passes crap, ther are games that are worth every single penny just for the story, The online only model is lazy job and more risky.

 

[GlockSaint]

Maybe every game doesn't have to be a 100 boring open world, or have them super duper realistic graphics. A smaller more focused game with emphasis on good gameplay would sell pretty well, just look at games like sekiro, nioh, hzd etc.

Crazy spending on stuff like music, presentation, expensive voice acting etc. I mean every once in a while we want to play them blockbusters but just focus on the game. Just my 2 cents

 

[Bryank75]

Yeah that's the whole principle of Game Pass. Pretty sure Sony will come with a similar service this gen, they have so many studios, it doesn't make sense to let them all develop long AAA titles.

It's working pretty well.... the difference is obvious. When Insomniac made a game for Xbox nobody bought it, when they made one for PlayStation, it broke records. Xbox need gamespass because their customers don't buy games...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

This is exactly why we see bullshit loot boxes and microtransaction and seasonal passes crap, ther are games that are worth every single penny just for the story, The online only model is lazy job and more risky.

BRB, going to play my 2,500th hour of Fortnite with some friends I made back in 2017. A game I never had to pay a dime for.

What were you saying about 20 hour single player games again?

 

[Hostile_18]

They made more profit this generation than any other.... so the model is working for Sony. Maybe 3rd parties are becoming unsustainable but 1st party are worth it and have made PlayStation a financial juggernaut compared to other gaming companies.

Youd think so, but coming from him it is a little disheartening/worrying. If anyone has the knowledge to know its him.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

It's working pretty well.... the difference is obvious. When Insomniac made a game for Xbox nobody bought it, when they made one for PlayStation, it broke records. Xbox need gamespass because their customers don't buy games...

 

[Renozokii]

Not a single big publisher is struggling this gen. Many are breaking records in terms of profit and revenue. Click bait statement with 0 facts on his side.

 

[ACESHIGH]

AA games should make a comeback. But gamers need to settle and stop expecting top tier production values in these type of games. I would gladly settle for games that looked like OG Xbox ones but with high resolution, framerates and texture filtering. We need games in certain genres to make a comeback, such as Character action, True Survival Horror, Car Combat, Arcade Sports, 3D platformers and others.

 

[Bryank75]

Youd think so, but coming from him it is a little disheartening/worrying. If anyone has the knowledge to know its him.

Eh, he has a developer background... not a business one and he is gone from PlayStation. Costs are being cut too...like LOD and they can locate teams in China or less expensive locations too.

I also wont complain if there is a small increase in the price of games.... I already buy limited or collectors editions of the 1st party games every time anyway.

 

[Bryank75]

I really think it was a shame that SSOD didn't sell... it looked fun.

 

[Jubenhimer]

AA games should make a comeback. But gamers need to settle and stop expecting top tier production values in these type of games. I would gladly settle for games that looked like OG Xbox ones but with high resolution, framerates and texture filtering. We need games in certain genres to make a comeback, such as Character action, True Survival Horror, Car Combat, Arcade Sports, 3D platformers and others.

I'd say they're already making a comeback. Consoles are getting more powerful, but they're also getting easier to develop for as well. So while the cost ceiling goes up, the barrier to entry goes down as well. Thus, indies and mid-sized studios are able to do a lot more with the hardware, at only a fraction of the costs.

 

[mckmas8808]

They made more profit this generation than any other.... so the model is working for Sony. Maybe 3rd parties are becoming unsustainable but 1st party are worth it and have made PlayStation a financial juggernaut compared to other gaming companies.

And how can the guy that ran Playstation say this KNOWING it's worked for Sony? Shawn is confusing.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There was a piece written on Epic Games a while back, around 2016 I believe. Leadership at Epic saw the budget for Gears of War balloon with each sequel and the profit didn't match the pace so they completely restructured the company to work on AA games. They broke down into four teams if I recall correctly.

Unreal Tournament, Paragon, Fortnite Save the World, and I think one other game.

Then Fortnite blew up and the rest is history. I think a lot of companies have been contemplating this problem for a while. Sony isn't the only one.

 

[zeorhymer]

Video game industry roughly made $152 billion in 2019. There's plenty of pie left for all sorts of developers and publishers with big and small games.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

And how can the guy that ran Playstation say this KNOWING it's worked for Sony? Shawn is confusing.

Because he's seeing the AAA space is about to have another massive jump in cost thanks to next gen and he's looking at how many PS5s are going to be sold in 2020, 2021, 2022 etc...and the math doesn't add up.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think the problem is all this obsession with "bigger and more expansive" games that look ultra realistic.
You can make excellents games without having to resort to this kind of approach. In fact, i think all of my favorite games from the last few years aren't high budget.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

The writing has been on the wall for awhile, and the recent #metoo2.0 allegations don't help.

Indies (especially small teams) will be least susceptible to these problems, so they'll eat even more of the AAA lunch.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Is this why he left? I can see why some people at Sony may have had issues with his opinion on AAA games.

 

[Yoboman]

And how can the guy that ran Playstation say this KNOWING it's worked for Sony? Shawn is confusing.

He was also there for the closure of some long running studios

It seems like to me like AAA game success is now heavily dependent on if you managed to build your reputation by the PS360 gen. If you missed that boat then the chances of being a new AAA successful studio is very slim

Look at how much 343 have struggled as essentially a manufactured AAA studio. And they only got that budget for Halo.

 

[Chromata]

Yeah that's the whole principle of Game Pass. Pretty sure Sony will come with a similar service this gen, they have so many studios, it doesn't make sense to let them all develop long AAA titles.

I love Game Pass and I think it'll be extremely popular among consumers if Sony adopts it, but if that's the case then I think physical copies will die off much faster.

Personally I'm fine with going all digital but I know that's a point of contention for a lot of gamers. Once Sony and Microsoft both go game pass, and with publishers like EA/Ubi already offering a similar service, the incentives for customers to ditch physical only climb higher.

 

[Yoboman]

Is this why he left? I can see why some people at Sony may have had issues with his opinion on AAA games.

He is 59, he probably just retired on a high

 

[Bryank75]

I love Game Pass and I think it'll be extremely popular among consumers if Sony adopts it, but if that's the case then I think physical copies will die off much faster.

Personally I'm fine with going all digital but I know that's a point of contention for a lot of gamers. Once Sony and Microsoft both go game pass, and with publishers like EA/Ubi already offering a similar service, the incentives for customers to ditch physical only climb higher.

I'd stop gaming... I HATE subscription bullshit. Fuck that.

 

[Jubenhimer]

I'd stop gaming... I HATE subscription bullshit. Fuck that.

I like Subscription services, but only as an option. Ideally, Consumers should have the choice to buy games individually.

 

[Bryank75]

I like Subscription services, but only as an option. Ideally, Consumers should have the choice to buy games individually.

Well I'd prefer if Xbox went the subscription route and PlayStation kept going as they are. Run Now on the side but keep new releases off it.

I spend a fair amount on games but if the want 10 euro per month customers instead of 100+ euro per month customers, then they can have them but forget about me continuing as their customer.

 

[GHG]

Yeah that's the whole principle of Game Pass. Pretty sure Sony will come with a similar service this gen, they have so many studios, it doesn't make sense to let them all develop long AAA titles.

What noteworthy 12-15 hour single player games have Microsoft released on gamepass?

 

[mckmas8808]

He was also there for the closure of some long running studios

It seems like to me like AAA game success is now heavily dependent on if you managed to build your reputation by the PS360 gen. If you missed that boat then the chances of being a new AAA successful studio is very slim

Look at how much 343 have struggled as essentially a manufactured AAA studio. And they only got that budget for Halo.

And around that same time both Sony and MS bought AAA studios too.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Well I'd prefer if Xbox went the subscription route and PlayStation kept going as they are. Run Now on the side but keep new releases off it.

I'd be okay with this. Having both Subscription models, and individual payment models existing together should be what everyone in the entertainment industry offers.

 

[Chromata]

I'd stop gaming... I HATE subscription bullshit. Fuck that.

The problem is that I don't see how the trend can reverse, digital is taking over pretty rapidly. I'd prefer to have the option too and I'll be buying the disk version of next gen consoles.

 

[MasterCornholio]

He is 59, he probably just retired on a high

That seems more like it.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Is this why he left? I can see why some people at Sony may have had issues with his opinion on AAA games.

Before he left, he did say he wanted fewer, but bigger games. Seems like his solution was quality over quantity. It's admirable, but with studios like Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch taking 5 to 6 years to make games, Sony as a publisher can't afford to only put out 3 or so games a year.

I think Shawn left for unrelated reasons, but when deciding his replacement, Sony probably wanted someone who can get the most out of the studios in terms of quantity and quality, which likely why Hermen Hulst was chosen.

 

[Bryank75]

I'd be okay with this. Having both Subscription models, and individual payment models existing together should be what everyone in the entertainment industry offers.

I see Xbox buying studios that fit the subscription model..... whereas PlayStation has not bought anyone for subscription type services. Like those Telltale games can be released in chapters or Quantic Dream also.

Hitman also broke their content into smaller releases.... however PS is focused on having 2 major releases each year usually. I see the strategies as divergent now....

 

[THEAP99]

This is not what he was saying last year.

Sony's Shawn Layden wants fewer, bigger PlayStation games

Video game makers are struggling to adapt to the internet era. With the PS5 on the horizon, Sony's video game boss has a plan.

www.cnet.com

 

[Bryank75]

The problem is that I don't see how the trend can reverse, digital is taking over pretty rapidly. I'd prefer to have the option too and I'll be buying the disk version of next gen consoles.

There are ways to eliminate unnecessary costs bloating but it requires active management.... lower cost geographic location, technological innovation to eliminate processes (LOD), not animating every action (Such as gun upgrades in TLOU2) and limiting the run-time of the game are all methods but countless more are applicable.

There has to be a quick value assessment of the work involved.... does this add much to the game? Are we going to throw this away in the end?

The game doesn't need to suffer, in fact it can be a better game and still be cheaper to make.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Spill the fuckin beans Shawn

 

[Bryank75]

Shawn Layden, former chairman of Sony Interactive's Worldwide Studios division, stated that he feels current AAA development is an unsustainable model.

Former PlayStation Boss Says AAA Game Development Is Unsustainable

With AAA games costing as much as $150 million to develop, Shawn Layden says the model is "just not sustainable."

www.gamespot.com

He also says he'd like to see 12-15 hour AAA games return.

I can see where he's coming from, and don't disagree to an extent. AAA development is risky, and increasingly expensive. But that doesn't mean they should go away. People like big games, and big games will always be made. I'd personally hate to see AAA games go away.

That said, I think the solution is very simple, diversify the investments. Betting all your eggs on on a $80 million beast isn't very wise. Make sure you have less costly, but still profitable games to help bring in revenue that can continue to make these AAA releases. I hate EA, but credit where credit is do, they have one of the better setups for a major publisher, having a Main label for expensive AAA titles, and an EA Originals label for smaller, independently developed games.

I also think there should be less AAA games each year as well. Have something like the film industry, where either the Summer or Holiday is where nearly all the AAA games get released, then have the rest of the year filled with different kinds of games. A system like this can maintain variety, without compromising quality.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It's working pretty well.... the difference is obvious. When Insomniac made a game for Xbox nobody bought it, when they made one for PlayStation, it broke records. Xbox need gamespass because their customers don't buy games...

Xbox attach ratio has been great. They just don't want Insomniac games with tacked on multiplayer right after a colossal reveal disaster.

 

[Pallas]

This worries me that potential hike in video game prices is coming soon. Most games before the 360/PS3 era were $49.99.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

This is exactly why we see bullshit loot boxes and microtransaction and seasonal passes crap, ther are games that are worth every single penny just for the story, The online only model is lazy job and more risky.

Yep.

Thats why Fortnite earned record $2.4 Billion dollar revenue in 2018 and 2019 with the top 10 featuring games like Rainbow Six Seige, Monster Hunter World, Call of Duty Black Ops 3 and Overwatch amoungst others.