Fortnite to be blacklisted from Apple ecosystem until the exhaustion of all appeals, could be up to 5 years.

dvdvideo said:
Having one of the biggest games of the decade not on your phones/tablets (and perhaps future games) isn't a good thing for apple either, I wonder if they know this.
Could cost them sales now and down the road.
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If it establishes them as a platform not to be messed with regardless of who you are, and also rids their userbase of the sort of people that only keep their phones and tablets around for Fortnite, it may only benefit them in the long run. To say nothing of establishing iOS mobile devices as "those that don't have Fortnite on them", which may be a positive with parents who know of the effects Fortnite has on children.
 
I just don't get it. Isn't Fortnite free? Do developers have to pay Apple every time someone downloads their free app. Or do developers pay a standard free to host their app? If they don't pay anything to apple to host their free app, how does apple make money off of free apps?
 
proandrad said:
I just don't get it. Isn't Fortnite free? Do developers have to pay Apple every time someone downloads their free app. Or do developers pay a standard free to host their app? If they don't pay anything to apple to host their free app, how does apple make money off of free apps?
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Every time anybody buys something for Fortnite from App Store.

Free apps makes money selling things inside the app... you can call microtransactions.
 
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ManaByte said:
God forbid a company not pay their 30% tithe to the church of Apple.
Click to expand...

Epic always had the option to "avoid paying 30% to Apple" simply by not selling things on their platform.

The real issue here is that they agreed to Apple's terms and then engaged in systematic deception in an attempt to evade paying Apple the commission they had agreed to. My dislike for Apple (which is frankly substantial) is not enough to blind me to the very obvious bad faith that Epic were acting in.
 
proandrad said:
I just don't get it. Isn't Fortnite free? Do developers have to pay Apple every time someone downloads their free app. Or do developers pay a standard free to host their app? If they don't pay anything to apple to host their free app, how does apple make money off of free apps?
Click to expand...
The same way Epic makes billions off of it - microtransactions.
 
proandrad said:
So Epic wants apple to host their free app, and they also want 100% of the micro transactions. That seems insane.
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Basically that.

But Epic lawsuit wanted to put an alternative Store to avoid pay Apple inside the own Apple iOS.
Take in mind that actually only the MTX sold in the App Store get cut to Apple... the MTX sold in others places like web browser is 100% to Epic already.
 
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Hugare said:
Too scared to go against MS, Sony and Nintendo.

I think that the majority of FN players are on PC, but Epic would still have a huge loss if consoles manufacturers closed doors on his nose like Apple did

I cant say this enough: what a fucking idiot
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PlayStation is close to 50% of the Fortnite's revenue.

PC is less than 10%.
 
ethomaz said:
That is the right decision from Apple.

Epic thought they could bully Apple without any retaliation back?
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He was testing the waters. They had a massive campaign prepared against Apple thinking that the whole world would be burning the mothership in Cupertino (see 1984 Fortnite video). Tim forgot that the internet turned everyone into cynics.
 
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Sean Mirrsen said:
If it establishes them as a platform not to be messed with regardless of who you are, and also rids their userbase of the sort of people that only keep their phones and tablets around for Fortnite, it may only benefit them in the long run. To say nothing of establishing iOS mobile devices as "those that don't have Fortnite on them", which may be a positive with parents who know of the effects Fortnite has on children.
Click to expand...

Errr, what? Seriously, your suggesting that people who play fortnite are scum not worth selling tablets to? If parents are worried about fortnite, they can take it away or limit time. Shakes head.......
 
I posted this in the other thread, but Epic had their chance last year to get back on iOS even during the trial. They spurned both Apple and the Judge at that time last year.


Last year right after the whole incident happened Apple did offer to re-instate Epic's account if they removed the hidden code to bypass IAP, even during the trial. The judge even suggested that they could have Apple's 30% fee kept in escrow while the trial was going on and the money would go to the party who came out on top at the end of the trial.
Sweeney came out on his high horse though and said they wouldn't go back on iOS until Apple allowed 3rd party App Stores.

Now that the trial is over they are trying to get re-instated and it looks like Apple isn't having any of it. If you prove yourself to be a bad actor, then don't be surprised when somebody doesn't want to do business with you.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/com...e-off-app-store-until-after-trial/ar-BB19TTVE
(From last year, 2020)
"Apple handed Epic an olive branch, offering to reinstate Fortnite if the company agreed to comply by the terms of the contract. The judge offered a further compromise, saying that Apple's fees from the sale of Fortnite could be placed in escrow until the conclusion of the trial, but Epic balked, saying it didn't want to be forced to comply with an unlawful contract."
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
This.

Parents picking up a tablet for little Timmy's Christmas gift are gonna go Android now.

This will have a real and measurable impact on Apple's bottom line, there's no question.

That said... what is a few million dollars lost out of the tens of billions Apple makes every year? Yeah, Apple ain't gonna give a shit.
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Well the game hasn't been available on iOS for over a year now. If parents don't know about that, then they didn't do any research at all.
Also I'm not sure if they would pick up Android tablets instead now since Fortnite is also unavailable on the Google Play Store. Epic didn't just sue Apple. They are also suing Google as well.
(You can still sideload it to get it on your Android device, but that isn't as easy as getting it from the Play Store.)
 
dvdvideo said:
Errr, what? Seriously, your suggesting that people who play fortnite are scum not worth selling tablets to? If parents are worried about fortnite, they can take it away or limit time. Shakes head.......
Click to expand...
I mean... those are certainly your words on the matter.

What I said was that Apple may benefit in the long term if people that only keep their iPhones and iPads as a means to play Fortnite leave their ecosystem. Because Fortnite does not, primarily, benefit Apple, especially with how Epic is keen to use it as a propagandist bludgeoning tool.

And while you may think that a typical parent has the wherewithal to set up parental controls, I think that the much simpler concept of "this device does not have that popular shooter game that I read about, that children waste their time and parents' money on" will create a much more perceptible effect on public image in relevant social groups.
 
dvdvideo said:
Having one of the biggest games of the decade not on your phones/tablets (and perhaps future games) isn't a good thing for apple either, I wonder if they know this.
Could cost them sales now and down the road.
Click to expand...
Fortnite is already out from the App Store for over a year already and didn't affected nothing for Apple in terms of results.

The most affected here is Epic.
 
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The hate boner for Tim Sweeney in here is rather odd. Guy sacrifices companies profits so that other, lesser developers can flourish, and he gets ridiculed for it? Tim Sweeney is literally...

sr42CK.gif


Apple is Longshanks. Did Fortnite take the soul from the hater or was there never a soul there in the first place?
 
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Tl: Dr?

Epic sued apple over monopoly store.

Loses(?)

Has to pay apple 6 million in damage? Or where does that come from?

Getting fortnite removed.

Is this correct?

Sounds like a bad comedy with Adam Sandler in it
 
ethomaz said:
It is like your neighbor using your water and electricity without pay anything to you.
Doesn't look like something legal... at least that in Brasil is called "Gato".
Click to expand...
It's not like that at all.

Your understanding of this issue continues to be completely wrong.

Apple (and Google) are going to lose this battle in the long term, eventually with governments bringing the anti-competitive/monopoly hammer down on them. It's already happened in South Korea, it's going to happen in the U.S and it's happening in Europe.

Just because Apple is a "private company" doesn't mean they can just do whatever the hell they want. That has never been true in the U.S., so that notion is bizarre.

iOS and Android are the two most important computing platforms in the world at this point for consumers. Neither Apple nor Google should be allowed to be gatekeepers for every business on Earth. They are essentially becoming a "world government" when it comes to software distribution and their payment rules equate to a global tax that businesses pay before having to pay their ACTUAL governments.

Anyone on the Apple side of this is just plain wrong, and history is going to prove them wrong. And it's likely going to be sooner rather than later. I urge anyone who doesn't understand this to start reading communication in software engineering circles.
 
The_Mike said:
Tl: Dr?

Epic sued apple over monopoly store.

Loses(?)

Has to pay apple 6 million in damage? Or where does that come from?

Getting fortnite removed.

Is this correct?

Sounds like a bad comedy with Adam Sandler in it
Click to expand...

False.

Epic won the lawsuit.

Apple now acting petty because Robin Hood exposed them.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
The hate boner for Tim Sweeney in here is rather odd. Guy sacrifices companies profits so that other, lesser developers can flourish, and he gets ridiculed for it? Tim Sweeney is literally...

sr42CK.gif


Apple is Longshanks. Did Fortnite take the soul from the hater or was there never a soul there in the first place?
Click to expand...

lol, only a guy with a Fortnite avatar could be this naive. Hopefuly you are joking.
 
Sean Mirrsen said:
I mean... those are certainly your words on the matter.

What I said was that Apple may benefit in the long term if people that only keep their iPhones and iPads as a means to play Fortnite leave their ecosystem. Because Fortnite does not, primarily, benefit Apple, especially with how Epic is keen to use it as a propagandist bludgeoning tool.

And while you may think that a typical parent has the wherewithal to set up parental controls, I think that the much simpler concept of "this device does not have that popular shooter game that I read about, that children waste their time and parents' money on" will create a much more perceptible effect on public image in relevant social groups.
Click to expand...

My words based entirely on what you stated, don't try to twist and deflect.

A propagandist bludgeoning tool? Lol

It makes zero difference to anything in terms of kids being harmed, instead of them playing fortnite they will play some other shooter with even less oversight while adult content on YouTube and participating in chat groups with adults all while thier parents ignore them. Your seriously positioning fortnite as an evil being expunged from the apple ecosystem?
 
Hugare said:
lol, only a guy with a Fortnite avatar could be this naive. Hopefuly you are joking.
Click to expand...

Joking about what?

Epic won the lawsuit which results in more money going directly to developers/game publishers and keeps Apples fingers out of the pot.

Apple didn't like losing, so they're acting petty by boycotting Fortnite from their devices.

Game makers still win. Epic is our champion. Apple has been defeated. Rejoice!
 
The_Mike said:
Tl: Dr?

Epic sued apple over monopoly store.

Loses(?)

Has to pay apple 6 million in damage? Or where does that come from?

Getting fortnite removed.

Is this correct?

Sounds like a bad comedy with Adam Sandler in it
Click to expand...
Epic has to pay Apple for the money they collected when they bypassed Apple's IAP before Fortnite was removed from the store. They still had to give Apple their 30% commission from the revenue that they made during that time as they were under contract.
 
dvdvideo said:
My words based entirely on what you stated, don't try to twist and deflect.

A propagandist bludgeoning tool? Lol

It makes zero difference to anything in terms of kids being harmed, instead of them playing fortnite they will play some other shooter with even less oversight while adult content on YouTube and participating in chat groups with adults all while thier parents ignore them. Your seriously positioning fortnite as an evil being expunged from the apple ecosystem?
Click to expand...
Like hollywood movies 'based' on a true story, yes.

It doesn't make 'zero' difference. It makes a tiny bit of difference. We can't hope to abolish mobile pay-to-keep-having-fun gaming in one swing, but taking even a tiny chink out of it is good.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
Joking about what?

Epic won the lawsuit which results in more money going directly to developers/game publishers and keeps Apples fingers out of the pot.

Apple didn't like losing, so they're acting petty by boycotting Fortnite from their devices.

Game makers still win. Epic is our champion. Apple has been defeated. Rejoice!
Click to expand...
Man you really need to read up on what actually happened.

Epic lost badly; there is ONE concession for being able to link to a web store from within your game if you sell stuff there.

That is NOT what Epic was looking for, at all.

And the judge even said Apple has the right to charge their 30% commission on sales outside of the iPhone.. so Apple can actually legally now tell Epic they want a cut of sales from the web store.
 
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IntentionalPun said:
Man you really need to read up on what actually happened.

Epic lost badly; there is ONE concession for being able to link to a web store from within your game if you sell stuff there.

That is NOT what Epic was looking for, at all.

And the judge even said Apple has the right to charge their 30% commission on sales outside of the iPhone.. so Apple can actually legally now tell Epic they want a cut of sales from the web store.
Click to expand...


"Apple can no longer require that online purchases made in games or apps on Apple devices go through its own App Store."
 
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What's Tencent/Epic's next move? Try to get an injunction?

Tencent's proxy war against walled gardens isn't going so well here.

proandrad said:
So Epic wants apple to host their free app, and they also want 100% of the micro transactions. That seems insane.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Epic is perfectly willing to host it themselves if Apple allows EGS onto their platform as a competing storefront - which is what they REALLY want.
 
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Both are crappy companies but individually Sweeney is the biggest douche, no doubt.

As other have said before, Apple was ready to allow Epic to come back during the trial and Sweeney said no. The conditions were pretty fair in my opinion. Whoever thinks Epic did this to improve the world is the same people that think that EGS' approach was designed to improve the gaming landscape for gamers.

I'd do the same if I was in Apple's position.
 
Men_in_Boxes said:
Joking about what?

Epic won the lawsuit which results in more money going directly to developers/game publishers and keeps Apples fingers out of the pot.

Apple didn't like losing, so they're acting petty by boycotting Fortnite from their devices.

Game makers still win. Epic is our champion. Apple has been defeated. Rejoice!
Click to expand...
Epic lost the lawsuit. Apple has only been told they can't stop developers from linking out to other payment systems, a notion that they never cared for in the first place (because in-app purchases are far more impulse buy friendly). Apple was also told they were entirely in the right for taking Fortnite off their platform, and can keep doing so. And is also entitled to their 30% cut, regardless of payment methods used. So basically Apple won on all counts they cared for.
 
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