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[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

This. In fact, short of unicorns, I can't see myself buying this.
I've been burned by T10 on "exclusive" content before with LCE/VIP.

I'm confused.

 

[Diablohead]

download codes? or the actual content on the disc? methinks codes

Disc 2 might have the dlc packs on it along with the other disc 2 stuff.

 

[DasRaven]

I'm confused.

History: Bought FM3 "Limited" Collectors Edition only to see the included VIP perks (cars/gifts/etc) made unlimited later.

Future: The only thing T10 can offer in this "ultimate collection" that is reasonably likely to remain limited is the 3 unicorn cars.
I believe anything else they could offer (cars/tracks) will eventually be available as standard DLC.

TL/DR? - Unicorns in, I buy. Unicorns out, No buy, wait for inevitable DLC availability.

download codes? or the actual content on the disc? methinks codes

One would at least hope that they filled the current disc2 with existing DLC and added a disc3 for anything left over or added for this release. That is what they did with FM2's Platinum Hits release.

 

[Keikoku]

What about the rumored weather update ?

 

[AlanzTalon]

What about the rumored weather update ?

I would highly highly doubt any update like that coming. they are gearing up to show the next game (which something like that could be in) rather than a major update to the engine of a game that is almost a year old and nearing its end of DLC life. it just doesnt make sense from T10s perspective (even though it would be nice)

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I don't see that coming either. I'd even be surprised if the next forza can support (dynamic) weather with the same amount of cars on screen.

 

[eso76]

I don't see that coming either. I'd even be surprised if the next forza can support (dynamic) weather with the same amount of cars on screen.

depends on how they decide to represent weather visually. Doubt you'll get a million particles or perfectly detailed cars reflecting on wet tarmac but it could be done in a less fancy outfit.
Not happening in the ultimate collection though, wouldn't make sense. Unless of course ultimate collection and Forza 4 (3.5) Kinect aren't the same game, and if it isn't i hope there's enough new content and/or a much better presentation in Forza Kinect to justify releasing two different titles

 

[Diablohead]

Weather is now obviously reserverd for the next forza outing, can't see it being patched into the current game without some major engine tweaks to keep things 60fps.

There's a few things Forza 4 needs to aim for which hopefully are being looked at already:

-More cars on track, either remove some track detail ( ) or make the other cars around you drop in quality much quicker then normal so they can squeeze in more cars in a race, doesn't have to be 16 but 12 would be a vastly huge improvement.

-Weather, either have multiple track versions on the dvd which will eat away at storage space or just have sunny/cloudy/fog/rain/night via changing lighting in the tracks, would be nice to see night time stuff return after playing forza 1 and rain making an appearance to the series.

-A more fun single player, lists of races even if it's done on a calender is still boring, it would me amazing to see some sort of home area where you can take calls for private races, partake in leagues or have showing off races like cone challenges you can enter in, forza needs to borrow a little bit from the project gotham series to spice up single player and I don't mean make every race a kudos drifting session, but mix things up every few races with a custom cone challenge, speed camera challenge or actual drift point races, all of course threaded into the whole home system.

It's asking for a lot but it needs to be done, if forza 4 is another gallery of 200 races across 14 limited tracks with boring AI without anything between it will be another snooze fest which should have ended with forza 2.

 

[antiquegamer]

History: Bought FM3 "Limited" Collectors Edition only to see the included VIP perks (cars/gifts/etc) made unlimited later.

Future: The only thing T10 can offer in this "ultimate collection" that is reasonably likely to remain limited is the 3 unicorn cars.
I believe anything else they could offer (cars/tracks) will eventually be available as standard DLC.

TL/DR? - Unicorns in, I buy. Unicorns out, No buy, wait for inevitable DLC availability.

One would at least hope that they filled the current disc2 with existing DLC and added a disc3 for anything left over or added for this release. That is what they did with FM2's Platinum Hits release.

I don't understand why upset about contents being offer elsewhere. If they don't offer it then thounsands of those that couldn't get the limited edition (for whatever reasons) will cry how unfair that certain cars are only available in that edition.

I bought limited edition and couldn't careless if they offer it for others.

 

[Slackbladder]

I've always wanted to ask. Why no night racing in Forza 3?

 

[Diablohead]

I've always wanted to ask. Why no night racing in Forza 3?

Forza 1 had it along with one of the best circuits in tokyo ever made, they binned it all for forza 2 and forza 3 is just a huge update to forza 2.

 

[Minimaul]

Started playing again for the first time in a few months. Bought some DLC and messed with a few cars.



Feels good to play again. Although, I need to find a group to play online with as finishing up the single player is boring (I'll finish it though).

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I've always wanted to ask. Why no night racing in Forza 3?

PGR4 showed us different textures had to be used for day and night races.

So i'm guessing, not enough time to do so.

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah, that was the reason each track didn't have night AND day... but it wasn't time though, at least for Bizarre. They said that they actually had no room on the DVD for twice as many textures.

 

[Diablohead]

Yeah, that was the reason each track didn't have night AND day... but it wasn't time though, at least for Bizarre. They said that they actually had no room on the DVD for twice as many textures.

Yeah they were going to add in more, too :lol a shame dvd space is starting to hamper game development like that

I really can't see forza 4 having all tracks with night lighting even if the 2nd dvd was a full 6.8gig worth of data, it would destroy 20gig users.

 

[G Rom]

Weather is now obviously reserverd for the next forza outing, can't see it being patched into the current game without some major engine tweaks to keep things 60fps.

There's a few things Forza 4 needs to aim for which hopefully are being looked at already:

-More cars on track, either remove some track detail ( ) or make the other cars around you drop in quality much quicker then normal so they can squeeze in more cars in a race, doesn't have to be 16 but 12 would be a vastly huge improvement.

-Weather, either have multiple track versions on the dvd which will eat away at storage space or just have sunny/cloudy/fog/rain/night via changing lighting in the tracks, would be nice to see night time stuff return after playing forza 1 and rain making an appearance to the series.

-A more fun single player, lists of races even if it's done on a calender is still boring, it would me amazing to see some sort of home area where you can take calls for private races, partake in leagues or have showing off races like cone challenges you can enter in, forza needs to borrow a little bit from the project gotham series to spice up single player and I don't mean make every race a kudos drifting session, but mix things up every few races with a custom cone challenge, speed camera challenge or actual drift point races, all of course threaded into the whole home system.

It's asking for a lot but it needs to be done, if forza 4 is another gallery of 200 races across 14 limited tracks with boring AI without anything between it will be another snooze fest which should have ended with forza 2.

Yep, I think Turn 10 is pretty much done with Forza 3 now.
I think the game (Forza 4) could benefit greatly from having a mandatory install. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible with the USB storage option. I mean you can't even finish Forza 3 completely with an arcade or a near full 20 GB HDD (Fujimi Kaido, Positano and Nurburgring races locked in career). That way, Turn 10 could compress way more the data.
What made PGR4 so big was that the lighting wasn't dynamic at all but fully baked which meant pretty much one texture for almost every weather/day/night conditions. That and city are much more complex texture wise. If Turn 10 makes a fully dynamic day/night cycle, I think it would eat much less space.

Same thing that I always say but Forza 3 fell short to be a great game. For examples, the cars are greatly modeled and near if not equal to you-know-who's premium offering. The big (by big I mean huge) problem are the shaders and the lighting which are terrible (aside from the tires and rims which are near perfection).
The online hoppers were a good idea on paper but weren't well exploited at all and shouldn't be the only way to have public races.
The photo mode was a huge improvement over 2 but it still lacks polish in the renders. Low resolution and jpeg compression also ruined many shots. Stitching isn't a real solution to the problem.
The video renderer is the same story, lacks option and polish. I understand the needed wait for rendering but you should be able to upload your video while doing something else (like, I don't know ? Racing ?).

I agree with you, we need more cars on track. I don't care what Dan say about 8 players being the sweet spot. If it was true, there would be 8 cars in every racing competition in the world.
2005 Indianapolis F1 GP must have been one hell of a race from Dan's point of view !:lol
They need to at least double the number of cars on track. GRID managed 20 cars IIRC at 30 fps but that was with a terrible multiplatform engine compared to what it is now, after Dirt 2.
I don't think they can compromise on LOD, if there's one thing they need to actually improve, it's that. LOD are terrible for some cars (Alfa 8C, Evo X are some "good" examples) and transitions between them are way too obvious in those cases.

I also agree that the single-player really is truly boring. They need to reduce the number of races instead of making it bigger. Bringing back every track from the whole franchise would make the track roster much beefier and more varied too (Alpine Ring, Tokyo, Rio (!!), Pacific ShipYard, Oval from test track, New York Circuit). Add to that two or three new real epic racetracks (Spa-Francorchamps and Bathurst please ! ), the Nurburgring 24h ribbon and we could "easily" end with near 30 environments and 150+ layouts. Again add to that a dynamic day/night cycle and the single-player races would feel a lot less identical ! Put some different type of racing (true against the clock rally racing, true stock car oval races, true DTM and V8 races, passing challenges, domination races, maybe even some Super stages, etc...). And last but not least, add the ability to make your own career championships and a way to randomize one at any time.


BTW, you-know-who's amazing recent screenshots made me want to play with the some of the cars used in said images so here are two photos of the Zonda R !:lol

I know what you meant Diablo when you said changing TV made you rediscover Forza. I got a Sony EX500 two weeks ago, I rediscovered some race tracks which are much less blurry despite the 1080p upscale (much more responsive panel).

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah they were going to add in more, too :lol a shame dvd space is starting to hamper game development like that

It really, really is a shame. It's by far my most played game on the 360 (well, disc-based anyway) simply because the driving model is sublime and everything just looks near-flawless. I shudder to think what they could've done with a little more dev time and a few extra gig storage. Sadly, I think Bizarre's chance at making another driving-only game (as opposed to Blur) as good as PGR again is completely gone

Whoever picks up the franchise (and damnit, it had better not be dead!) should damn well be faithful to the style of game it is.

 

[shinnn]

+100 hours in the game and I'm still 43%. I hope to finish it before the next Forza :lol

 

[twinturbo2]

Honestly, I do hope they add back the tracks from Forza 1 that didn't make the cut, like Rio, Alpine Ring, Pacific Shipyard, the Tokyo street course, and the test track oval. Maple Valley didn't appear too much in Forza 3 career, which stinks, I like that course. And like I said earlier, I want to see Daytona and Long Beach.

I'm disappointed that the F355 Challenge spec series in Forza 3 didn't have the Motegi oval, the GP and full variants of Suzuka, and Laguna Seca, if you know what I mean. I also hope they add Monza, Sepang, Sugo, Atlanta Motor Speedway, and the aforementioned Long Beach, and make the Nuburgring GP course compatible with the career mode, so that the next Forza game can have a real F355 Challenge spec series.

Aside from that, I just hope Forza 4 (4-za?) can goe toe-to-toe with GT5 on the features front- weather, night races, head tracking with the Kinect camera, active aero in the cars that have them, and 12 cars on the track at once would be enough for me.

(I really hope jube is reading this and passing this on to Dan.)

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Yeah, that was the reason each track didn't have night AND day... but it wasn't time though, at least for Bizarre. They said that they actually had no room on the DVD for twice as many textures.

Yup. But I didn't think that was the main problem for T10 considering that F3 came on multiple disks.

 

[G Rom]

Three new photos of the beautiful 458 Italia :

Would have loved to be able to make a wallpaper out of this one !

I'm disappointed that the F355 Challenge spec series in Forza 3 didn't have the Motegi oval, the GP and full variants of Suzuka, and Laguna Seca, if you know what I mean. I also hope they add Monza, Sepang, Sugo, Atlanta Motor Speedway, and the aforementioned Long Beach, and make the Nuburgring GP course compatible with the career mode, so that the next Forza game can have a real F355 Challenge spec series.

Considering that we only got one new real racetrack in Forza 3 (Barcelona was already planned for Forza 2), I wouldn't count on having so many new real tracks !:lol
I hope I'm wrong though and I'm definitely with you on the Forza 1 tracks !
In the end, dvd space will be the biggest factor there but I can't see the next Forza shipping with less tracks than Forza 3. In the same way that I don't see Forza 4 having less than 550/600 cars (we're already at 500 with all DLC) especially since the models are pretty much future proof and only need to get the awful textures used here and there replaced by true shaders.
That's mainly why I want Microsoft to have the balls to allow Forza 4 to have a big mandatory install, so that we don't get a gimped game because of the dvd limit.

4za would be hilarious for all the people knowing that tEAm4za was a cheat code in Forza 1 !:lol

 

[TheOddOne]

Honestly, I do hope they add back the tracks from Forza 1 that didn't make the cut, like Rio, Alpine Ring, Pacific Shipyard, the Tokyo street course, and the test track oval. Maple Valley didn't appear too much in Forza 3 career, which stinks, I like that course. And like I said earlier, I want to see Daytona and Long Beach.

I'm disappointed that the F355 Challenge spec series in Forza 3 didn't have the Motegi oval, the GP and full variants of Suzuka, and Laguna Seca, if you know what I mean. I also hope they add Monza, Sepang, Sugo, Atlanta Motor Speedway, and the aforementioned Long Beach, and make the Nuburgring GP course compatible with the career mode, so that the next Forza game can have a real F355 Challenge spec series.

Aside from that, I just hope Forza 4 (4-za?) can goe toe-to-toe with GT5 on the features front- weather, night races, head tracking with the Kinect camera, active aero in the cars that have them, and 12 cars on the track at once would be enough for me.

(I really hope jube is reading this and passing this on to Dan.)

If they can, then I'll be impressed.

 

[Seanspeed]

I agree with you, we need more cars on track. I don't care what Dan say about 8 players being the sweet spot. If it was true, there would be 8 cars in every racing competition in the world.

There's a very obvious difference between video game racing and real life racing. More is not always better. 8 car grids is kinda small, but there's really nothing great about having 20+ cars on the grid, either. It gets a bit too hectic, what with not everybody playing being pro racing drivers who know what they're doing and all....

There's plenty of other things I hope Turn 10 focus on for the next Forza rather than grid size.

New tracks aren't it, either. Forza has one of the biggest selections of tracks you'll find in any racing sim-type game bar PC ones that you can download unlimited mods for. If they just rotated the tracks better in multiplayer and/or allowed for player-controlled public lobbies, I dont think many people would complain. Single player? Well, get mad because ONE SPECIFIC event didn't have the track you wanted to race on, but I think thats kinda ridiculous.

 

[p3tran]

Turn10 should focus in Forza becoming even more convincing in driving model, online features, data tables etc,
and leave all the bells and whistles for a more beefed-up PGR.
(rain/snow/night/dusk/kinect/etc)

also hardware is old. I say this for the hopes some may have.
essentially the only way to add, is through cutting/redoing something else.



in this generation, t10 has provided not one but two titles with rock-solid 60fps locked visuals,
and a complete system underneath that I must say it works.
I would really prefer that they elaborate on this road and the online system, and leave the more casual stuff for the more casual titles.

 

[G Rom]

There's a very obvious difference between video game racing and real life racing. More is not always better. 8 car grids is kinda small, but there's really nothing great about having 20+ cars on the grid, either.

I don't ask for 20+ cars on every tracks, that would be ridiculous just as it's also ridiculous to race against only 7 opponents on 10+ km racetrack.

It gets a bit too hectic, what with not everybody playing being pro racing drivers who know what they're doing and all....
There's plenty of other things I hope Turn 10 focus on for the next Forza rather than grid size.

If you're speaking of single-player, there's plenty of great assists to help people who don't know what they're doing. If you're talking about multiplayer, having more people on the racetrack could also mean more people from different level at the same time. Someone with no experience could be racing alone now but with 2 or 3 other guys in a 12 or 16 players race.

New tracks aren't it, either. Forza has one of the biggest selections of tracks you'll find in any racing sim-type game bar PC ones that you can download unlimited mods for. If they just rotated the tracks better in multiplayer and/or allowed for player-controlled public lobbies, I dont think many people would complain. Single player? Well, get mad because ONE SPECIFIC event didn't have the track you wanted to race on, but I think thats kinda ridiculous.

True but as much as I like fictional racetrack (Forza 3 provided some pretty good ones) used to fill gaps, there are some big omissions from the real racetrack roster. I'd take Spa-Francorchamps over Catalunya any day. Bathurst is also one of the biggest fan requested track since the first Forza (which had Blue Mountain as a Bathurst clone).
We're mentioning Forza 1 racetracks because the missing one are great and basically "free" to do because they already have the data and only need to make them Forza 4 worthy graphically.
I totally agree that they badly exploited their tracks by 1) not rotating them enough and 2) making DLC ones unusable.

Turn10 should focus in Forza becoming even more convincing in driving model, online features, data tables etc,
and leave all the bells and whistles for a more beefed-up PGR.
(rain/snow/night/dusk/kinect/etc)

also hardware is old. I say this for the hopes some may have.
essentially the only way to add, is through cutting/redoing something else.

in this generation, t10 has provided not one but two titles with rock-solid 60fps locked visuals,
and a complete system underneath that I must say it works.
I would really prefer that they elaborate on this road and the online system, and leave the more casual stuff for the more casual titles.

I love how you just described weather and day/night cycle to be a casual thing !:lol
I also don't care for Kinect though.

Hardware may be old but look at what Bizarre pulled 3 years ago at 30 fps with motion blur. Overall it still destroy any racing game graphically. Those guys used some wizardry, it's the only way !

Technically, I don't expect a similar jump that we got from Forza 2 to Forza 3 but aesthetically I expect a huge gap if their focus on shaders is true. And if they finally calibrate the TV of the guy in charge of lighting, we may have a chance to get one of the best looking game without much effort. :lol
I've said it numerous times here, Forza 3 lacked only small "free" polish to be a much much better looking game.

Also, they've already announced that they built a new engine (again...), I don't see why they would do that if it isn't to make major changes or add more complex things like weather or night racing though...




The graphics don't need a major overhaul at all but major tweaking and polish instead.
Gameplay, as you said, needs to keep improving (making steering assist optional would be a good start).
Multiplayer needs to regain the public lobbies along private ones and hoppers.
Career needs to get more interesting and not end up in longer races on the same tracks.
Storefront/FM.net need to get faster servers or optimization (anything that could make them faster !).
Photomode needs to ditch the limitations (I'm talking jpeg/res but also LOD, height, etc...).
A true arcade mode needs to appear.

I think, it covers pretty much all the big things that I'd want to see improved from Forza 3
As for things that I'd want to see added : active aero, night racing, more real racetrack (Spa and Bathurst would be enough), return of Forza 1 tracks (Rio, Tokyo and Alpine Ring please), more old cars, more old racing cars (old Le Mans prototype, old rally cars, old BTCC cars) and rally cars are my main requests.

 

[brotkasten]

I don't understand why upset about contents being offer elsewhere. If they don't offer it then thounsands of those that couldn't get the limited edition (for whatever reasons) will cry how unfair that certain cars are only available in that edition.

I bought limited edition and couldn't careless if they offer it for others.

But isn't that the point of a limited edition? Not everyone can get it.

Also, they've already announced that they built a new engine (again...), I don't see why they would do that if it isn't to make major changes or add more complex things like weather or night racing though...

:lol

Why would anyone believe that (again)? I still don't believe that they build a new engine for Forza 3. Horrible lighting, 8 cars on track, 2d rims at high speed. Sounds like Forza 2. The "ten times more polys per car" was also bullshit. To be honest, I think their engine is still based on the Forza Motorsports engine for the OG Xbox.

 

[G Rom]

There's a difference between building a new engine and making poor choices. For example, lighting engine seems really good in Forza 3, it's just the colors, use of bloom, etc... choices that were terrible (photo mode allows to partially correct that).

When they say 10x polygons, they speak about the highest LOD of course, that's just some PR spin. Go take a look in the photo mode at the cars, the modeling is there, they just look bad because of the poor shaders and, as said above, poor choices in lighting.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm 99% positive that they reused assets from Forza 2 (Mapple Valley for example) but to say nothing was redone is an error I think.

 

[Diablohead]

But isn't that the point of a limited edition? Not everyone can get it.




:lol

Why would anyone believe that (again)? I still don't believe that they build a new engine for Forza 3. Horrible lighting, 8 cars on track, 2d rims at high speed. Sounds like Forza 2. The "ten times more polys per car" was also bullshit. To be honest, I think their engine is still based on the Forza Motorsports engine for the OG Xbox.

Didn't they remake some parts of the engine but not all of it for 3? forza 2 felt like a port of the original with less tracks and some iffy lighting in spots, they improved the car shaders 90% though in forza 3.

With forza 4 they need to work out a way to variate tracks and races without needing triple the texture data, that's why I suggested above that they should look into making some light changes to the tracks, fog isn't too hard in concept just limit view distance and give the cars headlights in a foggy atmosphere, rain might fit in well if they add in some puddles which get disabled in sunny conditions, stuff like snow would be a nono while the game is still dvd bound.

Evening races would be nice, not night time completely but a setting sun and car headlights on just to give the track some fresh atmosphere, all that stuff would hopefully use the same base track and textures if done well.

And I do hope we get the high poly models for replays next time around, feels like wasted potential only using them for menu's, start of races and photo mode, while racing I have no problem with a darkened interior if it means keeping the gameplay at 60.

 

[brotkasten]

There's a difference between building a new engine and making poor choices. For example, lighting engine seems really good in Forza 3, it's just the colors, use of bloom, etc... choices that were terrible (photo mode allows to partially correct that).

When they say 10x polygons, they speak about the highest LOD of course, that's just some PR spin. Go take a look in the photo mode at the cars, the modeling is there, they just look bad because of the poor shaders and, as said above, poor choices in lighting.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm 99% positive that they reused assets from Forza 2 (Mapple Valley for example) but to say nothing was redone is an error I think.

There's also a difference between a new engine and tweaking the old one. The better lighting and LOD system for the photomode doesn't make it a new engine. Both games have the same limitations (I already mentioned them) and I don't think that the developers would make the same mistakes again, if they'd make a new engine. They're not stupid.

 

[Diablohead]

There's also a difference between a new engine and tweaking the old one. The better lighting and LOD system for the photomode doesn't make it a new engine. Both games have the same limitations (I already mentioned them) and I don't think that the developers would make the same mistakes again, if they'd make a new engine. They're not stupid.

I would love it if there was a glitch to keep the photomode settings on for a race, a shame there is not

 

[p3tran]

I love how you just described weather and day/night cycle to be a casual thing !:lol
I also don't care for Kinect though.

first we reach 100% simulation of sunny, dry tarmac, and build upon it,
then we look to creating much more complex things, especially considering h/w limitations.

Hardware may be old but look at what Bizarre pulled 3 years ago at 30 fps with motion blur. Overall it still destroy any racing game graphically. Those guys used some wizardry, it's the only way !

PGR & Forza are 2 of my most favorite series.
Its been a while I booted PGR4, but from what I remember car models where simplified when compared to Forza's (even those low detail models that we see in-game).
it sports more filters though, since game engine requires less juice.
pgr still holds the crown of arcade racers for me.

Technically, I don't expect a similar jump that we got from Forza 2 to Forza 3 but aesthetically I expect a huge gap if their focus on shaders is true. And if they finally calibrate the TV of the guy in charge of lighting, we may have a chance to get one of the best looking game without much effort. :lol
I've said it numerous times here, Forza 3 lacked only small "free" polish to be a much much better looking game.

During gameplay, Forza3 is one of the best looking games.
textureworks and framerate are still unrivaled in my book.


I really cant understand how T10 managed to make their photomode suck so much.
It is really funny to say that while playing the game looks much better than in off-the-hook photomode and replays, and its so much funnier that it's true.

If I had to guess, I'd probably say they run with a very tight schedule, and while this on one hand puts their asses on fire (and their developing options I guess)
on the other hand, since 2005 they have pumped out 3 titles which are pure motorsport bliss.
3 super racing games in 5 years. unbeatable in my book.

Also, they've already announced that they built a new engine (again...), I don't see why they would do that if it isn't to make major changes or add more complex things like weather or night racing though...

Dont forget that they have built all those high detail models which practically never appear in-game.
If they rebuild it in this h/w, I guess it will be to put high detail models during gameplay, and this is a significant bump on its own.
( edit: check these out )

forget about weather and simulation though.. in this generation, its one or the other. you choose.
unless you are talking about pgr-type rain (which is not suited for forza imo).

Multiplayer needs to regain the public lobbies along private ones and hoppers.
Career needs to get more interesting and not end up in longer races on the same tracks.
Storefront/FM.net need to get faster servers or optimization (anything that could make them faster !).
Photomode needs to ditch the limitations (I'm talking jpeg/res but also LOD, height, etc...).
A true arcade mode needs to appear.

All of the above are correct and I agree.

I think, it covers pretty much all the big things that I'd want to see improved from Forza 3
As for things that I'd want to see added : active aero, night racing, more real racetrack (Spa and Bathurst would be enough), return of Forza 1 tracks (Rio, Tokyo and Alpine Ring please), more old cars, more old racing cars (old Le Mans prototype, old rally cars, old BTCC cars) and rally cars are my main requests.

I want more precision in simulation, better ingame money thing (running the same track(s) for little forza-cash gets tedious), and your gamertag if you play forza or iracing

 

[G Rom]

Concerning PGR4, that's why I said "overall". The cars aren't the best one if you look at them in details that's for sure but again, that was 3 years ago. I'd kill to see what Bizarre could do now if they still developed exclusively for a platform just like I could also kill to see RSC3 done by DICE !

I'm sure Turn 10 has a tight schedule, they basically confirmed it in the latest podcast or the one before. There's no doubt in my mind that Microsoft forced them to release Forza 3 before christmas last year to get the game out before what was then the supposed release date of you-know-who.

While I really like the Forza franchise, I'd say they released 1 super racing game (Forza 1) and 2 good racing games. 2 and 3 felt a lot less polished and more rushed than Forza 1 and IMO that's what differentiate good games from great games.

I agree that simply having higher LOD in-game would already make the game look much better.
Honestly, I'm more interested in night racing than weather. I would prefer dynamic lighting with possibly some tracks with fixed weather and lighting rather than them trying to do everything dynamic.

I forgot about fixing the currency issue, shame on me. :lol
While I'm at it, I wouldn't mind having better replays (with highest LOD).


Great videos BTW, I'd love to have access to the interior in photo mode !

 

[p3tran]

While I really like the Forza franchise, I'd say they released 1 super racing game (Forza 1) and 2 good racing games. 2 and 3 felt a lot less polished and more rushed than Forza 1 and IMO that's what differentiate good games from great games.

I agree that simply having higher LOD in-game would already make the game look much better.
Honestly, I'm more interested in night racing than weather. I would prefer dynamic lighting with possibly some tracks with fixed weather and lighting rather than them trying to do everything dynamic.

I forgot about fixing the currency issue, shame on me. :lol
While I'm at it, I wouldn't mind having better replays (with highest LOD).


Great videos BTW, I'd love to have access to the interior in photo mode !

well, forza 1 was 30fps, forza 2 & 3 are locked vsync'd 60, so that alone makes them much better.
eventhough forza1 had its physics running at a multiple of screen fps (like 2&3), still there is a significant difference.

also, many things evolved in the transition, like the online system, the damage system, the livery editor, the auction house, the complete ecosystem of tuning & painting etc. great stuff!
some things got worse, like the scraping of career leaderboards, the scraping of public lobbies, tournaments and a couple of minor things.

overall, for me the series is progressing, but approaching the critical moment where they'll have to make a choice.... stay on their roots, or become wii-fied.
I'd like to think that they'll keep adding(or is that cutting?) stuff to make it accessible to babies, but also keep working on the opposite end (realism),
but from my experience this works alright only in dreams.


about night racing, the tracks practically have to be redone and prebaked. for dynamic stuff on top of whats already going on, I wouldnt expect much because old h/w is old.

 

[Diablohead]

The BMW video was great just because they had some internal cameras, rally style placements.

Oh that's another thing forza 4 REALLY needs to look into and that is REPLAY CAMERAS, from youtube it looks like the nurb GP circuit has near perfect angles but still a few ghost floating cameras, please turn 10 don't be scared to play the gran turismo games for camera ideas.

I also hope they give us our own camera positions for video rendering, why could they not just give us the floating photomode camera in forza 3 when we render clips?

 

[skyfinch]

Still hoping that there's a direct feed of the E3 Kinect footage somewhere to be found. There seemed to be a lot of improvements done, but can't be 100% positive without direct feed video. Doubt that the next Forza will be 4. Seems like they'll wait till next gen, and release some sort of PGR/Forza hybrid in 2011....just a guess.

I'd like better lighting for "next" Forza. That's one of my biggest grips, visually, with 3, especially when you switch to the cockpit view. Lighting is so flat in the cockpit, and overall. I think there's still enough juice in the current hardware for this.

Shaders are another story. I'm almost certain the textures and materials they used for the cockpits were due to storage limitations. Just plain ugly in some cars. Unless they go with harddrive installs....hate to say this, but the only other option is to downgrade the overall amount of cars. As it is right now, 400+ is too much to fit on DVD.

They also need to do a better job with the camera in the cockpits. In 3, everything is so stale and lacks proper movements. I know it doesn't take much to turn a car at 100mph, but at times, it doesn't even look like the driver's hands are even moving...even at slow speeds. As much as I dislike NFS Shift's gameplay, I do think they have the best cockpit view....minus the exaggerated jumpiness. Sounds in that game are amazing as well. Really get the sense that you're behind the wheel of 500hp monsters.

Sick of requesting better camera angles for replays. Nurburgring GP is how all replay angles should look like....still not on par with the "other game". Some of the best angles don't even require movement. Just leave the camera still and let the car drive by. No need to be so dramatic. Also, have the camera start when the car's still a long ways, away, and have it stay on the car until it's far into the distance. 3's camera tends to stay on the car for a couple seconds before switching to a new one, which was annoying. There's a small section in Nurburgring, the long straight before the carousel, where the camera switches three times in less than a couple seconds. Nasty.

 

[G Rom]

I'd like better lighting for "next" Forza. That's one of my biggest grips, visually, with 3, especially when you switch to the cockpit view. Lighting is so flat in the cockpit, and overall. I think there's still enough juice in the current hardware for this.

I was just finishing a race in the 22b Impreza and thinking about the flatness of the cockpit. :lol
I think cockpit could use some pre-baked ambient occlusion.

Shaders are another story. I'm almost certain the textures and materials they used for the cockpits were due to storage limitations. Just plain ugly in some cars. Unless they go with harddrive installs....hate to say this, but the only other option is to downgrade the overall amount of cars. As it is right now, 400+ is too much to fit on DVD.

That's the problem, they use textures where there shouldn't be any. For example many cars have headlights with an awful mat texture which is supposed to replace a chrome part of the lights. Cars with fully shadered lights are those which look the best and must take less space due to lesser use of textures.


I agree on the other point you mentioned. I would only add that different cameras for 2 or 3 laps would also be cool.

 

[Diablohead]

I was just finishing a race in the 22b Impreza and thinking about the flatness of the cockpit. :lol
I think cockpit could use some pre-baked ambient occlusion.

Yes, if it was possible they need to add that in, but the dashboard leather/rubber/plastic textures are all small files which are looped instead of being one big texture so AO baking would not work there, using some alpha layers would kill the framerate I think.

my one big request for forza 4 is that they have a way of adding in career events for DLC tracks and that DLC tracks are aplenty. i'm so sick of car packs.

This is why I only bought the first car pack.

 

[op_ivy]

my one big request for forza 4 is that they have a way of adding in career events for DLC tracks and that DLC tracks are aplenty. i'm so sick of car packs.

 

[Seanspeed]

I don't ask for 20+ cars on every tracks, that would be ridiculous just as it's also ridiculous to race against only 7 opponents on 10+ km racetrack.

The biggest problem with having a lot of cars is that unless you're doing a 10 lap+ race, it seriously sucks to have to start near the back by random draw. Of course, some sort of qualifying would fix this..............qualifying, Turn 10. Please!

If you're speaking of single-player, there's plenty of great assists to help people who don't know what they're doing. If you're talking about multiplayer, having more people on the racetrack could also mean more people from different level at the same time. Someone with no experience could be racing alone now but with 2 or 3 other guys in a 12 or 16 players race.

Even in single-player, the AI is very flawed and predicatable. Its gotten to the point where I have to pick a severely inferior car in order to have any sort of competitive race, and even then, the AI tends to be strangely weak in certain places(most notably, a lot of high-speed 'bravery' corners), which makes catching up and overtaking cars predictable, unchallenging and thus unexciting.

In multiplayer, yes, there's more of a chance of having good competition, but its balanced out by having more of a chance to have crashers and people who dont know what they're doing. I still find quite competitive drivers that dont know proper racing etiquette, too.

Either way, you'd think it balances out, but when you get knocked off track in the first lap, you dont get the benefit of having more of these 'competitive' guys because you're stuck trying to battle with the slower, more reckless guys trying to get back in the fight.

I think 12 people is probably about the sweet spot in a game like this. Go on a proper PC racing sim, and you can have full grids, but in a popular console racer, I dont think really big grids are a great idea, especially if it comes at the price of technical performance.

True but as much as I like fictional racetrack (Forza 3 provided some pretty good ones) used to fill gaps, there are some big omissions from the real racetrack roster. I'd take Spa-Francorchamps over Catalunya any day. Bathurst is also one of the biggest fan requested track since the first Forza (which had Blue Mountain as a Bathurst clone).
We're mentioning Forza 1 racetracks because the missing one are great and basically "free" to do because they already have the data and only need to make them Forza 4 worthy graphically.
I totally agree that they badly exploited their tracks by 1) not rotating them enough and 2) making DLC ones unusable.

There's no 'omissions' in the track list. I'm sure Turn 10 know what tracks are good and what aren't for the most part, but there's likely practical limits(money, contracts, time, etc) into getting nothing but the very best tracks in the world.

You act like they made a conscious choice to pick Barcelona over Spa or something, when thats probably not the case at all.

Dont get me wrong, I'd love more tracks. I'd splooge if they announced Spa for Forza 4. I'd take new tracks over new car packs anyday. But I just dont think its something they NEED to focus on, as if it was a weakness of Forza 3 or something.

And yea, I really want some of the Forza 1 tracks back. Especially Rio.

 

[antiquegamer]

my one big request for forza 4 is that they have a way of adding in career events for DLC tracks and that DLC tracks are aplenty. i'm so sick of car packs.

I don't mind the car pack, the more the merrier and if you don't want them don't buy them. They don't do car packs, people complain , they do car pack people complain.

As for track, I didn't expect there to be any as that was stated by Dan before Forza 3 release that they were not going to do many track DLC.

My only gripe about Forza 3 carrer is that the early carreer (year 1-3) were fun but after year 4 it really become more of a chore to play. They really should have done race day where you get to customize your race (ouside of that silly muliplayer set up). Online was also lacking, and the most fun I have was the the tag mode. The lobby and interface was also pretty bad.

 

[G Rom]

The biggest problem with having a lot of cars is that unless you're doing a 10 lap+ race, it seriously sucks to have to start near the back by random draw. Of course, some sort of qualifying would fix this..............qualifying, Turn 10. Please!

Hence why I talk about 10+ km track, well maybe 7+ km. Le Mans, Nurburgring, Spa-Francorchamps, Bathurst, Benchmark Ring, Camino Viejo Extreme and Sedona Long could work very well in a 2 or 3 laps race. Camino Viejo Short wouldn't though !:lol
As I said, I don't want 12 or 16 cars on every tracks, it doesn't make any sense at all (although I'd love to get the option for some destruction derby style races once in a while :lol ).

Even in single-player, the AI is very flawed and predicatable. Its gotten to the point where I have to pick a severely inferior car in order to have any sort of competitive race, and even then, the AI tends to be strangely weak in certain places(most notably, a lot of high-speed 'bravery' corners), which makes catching up and overtaking cars predictable, unchallenging and thus unexciting.

Yep, I agree with that. I think that giving AI tuned cars would be a good start, you wouldn't have to gimp yourself as much. Making hard AI well, hard would be cool too !:lol

In multiplayer, yes, there's more of a chance of having good competition, but its balanced out by having more of a chance to have crashers and people who dont know what they're doing. I still find quite competitive drivers that dont know proper racing etiquette, too.

Either way, you'd think it balances out, but when you get knocked off track in the first lap, you dont get the benefit of having more of these 'competitive' guys because you're stuck trying to battle with the slower, more reckless guys trying to get back in the fight.

If we get the public lobbies again, I think this problem will be solved by itself. Admin will be able to kick the unworthy players. In the PGR2 days, I remember playing with people from different level and everyone was having fun. Well except when there was an unfortunate accident but it can happens to everyone, even the best can have one and be the ones in the back trying to catch up.

I think 12 people is probably about the sweet spot in a game like this. Go on a proper PC racing sim, and you can have full grids, but in a popular console racer, I dont think really big grids are a great idea, especially if it comes at the price of technical performance.

I'm all for 60 fps before anything else so I'll accept it if they can't up the number of cars (even though, I'd be disappointed).

There's no 'omissions' in the track list. I'm sure Turn 10 know what tracks are good and what aren't for the most part, but there's likely practical limits(money, contracts, time, etc) into getting nothing but the very best tracks in the world.

You act like they made a conscious choice to pick Barcelona over Spa or something, when thats probably not the case at all.

Dont get me wrong, I'd love more tracks. I'd splooge if they announced Spa for Forza 4. I'd take new tracks over new car packs anyday. But I just dont think its something they NEED to focus on, as if it was a weakness of Forza 3 or something.

And yea, I really want some of the Forza 1 tracks back. Especially Rio.

Well I don't know if they picked Barcelona over Spa but I think you'll agree with me that there are much much better tracks to choose than Barcelona. Donington Park, Monza, butchered Hockeinheim, Magny-Cours, Fuji Speedway being some examples.
IIRC, only the tracks which have a contract with FOM can only appear in the official F1 game.
I agree with you though, there are much more important thing to focus on but I can't imagine a sequel shipping with the same tracks. I mean, even if we get a totally revamped game with amazing physics and all, I would still have the impression to be in Forza 3 and drive on the same "old" tracks.

I think pretty much everyone who played Forza 1 agree on the fact that they need to bring back those tracks !




From the beginning I think that Microsoft wanted to take the least amount of risk and pay the least money to get Forza 3 out. 2 years of development, tight schedule. Poor infrastructure for FM.net. JPEG compression saving bandwidth when they allow 1080p for Bungie. Real tracks are what cost the most to do and we only got one new licensed track (Le Mans) but much more fictional tracks which are obviously less expensive to create. Even in the DLC which have all been 2009/2010/2011 cars. It makes sense for the manufacturer business wise (show off there latest cars) but it also makes sense for Microsoft/Turn 10 which don't have to hassle to find and get old cars.
IMO, Turn 10 should have an almost permanent small team in each continent, constantly hunting cars to take photos and/or laser scan them. That way they could have a beefy database of reference for cars in no time especially for rare old cars. They could also easily have references for cars with different looks depending of the continent. (European Golf GTI mk1 not looking like the American model for example)



Oh and yesterday I was also thinking that it would be so cool to have a visual representation of your storefront. Imagine a 3D space where you can can go everywhere, à la PGR garage. You could go to the tuning section of the storefront where you could see each cars on a dyno with the parts fitted and with spring, turbos, etc.. in the background. The livery part would be the in the same spirit, with cans everywhere and cars shown with their livery. The photos and replays would be in a rest room playing back on TVs hanged on the walls (you'd be able to make them full screen of course). And last but not least a huge hangar or garage to show off your car collection, that would be cool.

I know that it's basically a useless feature but I think it would be much nicer than going from menus to menus (you'd have the ability to switch between the menu and 3D of course).

 

[p3tran]

I know that it's basically a useless feature but I think it would be much nicer than going from menus to menus (you'd have the ability to switch between the menu and 3D of course).

much more usefull than snow

 

[bloodforge]

my one big request for forza 4 is that they have a way of adding in career events for DLC tracks and that DLC tracks are aplenty. i'm so sick of car packs.

Completely agree with this.

 

[G Rom]

Some new photos to break those long block of text.

 

[Diablohead]

Some new photos to break those long block of text.

I love the colour and contrast in this pic, love it.

 

[saladine1]

Seeing how GT5 is around the corner, we'll probably won't see or hear anything FM4 related for a while.
That won't stop me from posting my suggestions from time to time though.
First and foremost, please try and make the actual racing more 'involved' more 'hectic'.
At the moment, racing in Forza seems very civilized,very 'normal'.
I suggest something along the lines of what NFS Shift did in terms of in your face,brutal motor racing....loud,raw,hustle and bustle as seen in real life!

 

[Almak]

Every time I see this thread pop up to the first page I automatically open XBL marketplace to see if theres new DLC out. :lol

Really loving this pic, G Rom

 

[skyfinch]

G rom, what version of Forza 3 do you have? My copy doesn't have an "awesome" slider in photomode.

 

[G Rom]

Thanks for the comments everybody.

G rom, what version of Forza 3 do you have? My copy doesn't have an "awesome" slider in photomode.

Unfortunately I don't have a "save as 10 Megapixels PNG" option !:lol



Looking at the reactions I got here, I think I'll enter this week's official photo mode competition with the GT-R photo. :lol

 

[Alucrid]

I'm getting this today, there aren't any codes or anything you get from buying the game new, right?