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Frozen Synapse |OT| The Thinking Man's Shooter

T

TheExecutive

Member
Darkkn said:
I feel like the game is lacking some offensive capabilities. There are times when opponent is at unit kill lead and can totally lock the game down and it's impossible to break if enemy just keeps positions until the end and you don't have counter units(like shotty to clear corner camping mg).
Would be cool if there was some way to change your soldiers character class mid-game from mg to shotty or from launcher to grenade. Maybe if you retreated to your designated 'spawn/resupply' point.
Click to expand...

Exactly why the complaints of rockets and grenaders are null and void.
 
P

Palmer_v1

Member
For the new page:

Toma said:
The tournament has started!Reminder every 100 posts.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29240850&postcount=1356
Click to expand...

Toma said:
I'll update everything in about an hour. Otherwise I would have needed all of your google mail addresses, which was a bit bothersome.
Click to expand...

Ah ok. AFAIK, the only finished games in group H are:

Tygell vs Moosetwik: 2-0, and I(Tygell) lost 2 guys out of 7 total, while Moose lost 7/7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwI1hHpMb0k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PejYWuY0LM4

If anyone else in group H finishes a game, just quote and add yours under mine.
 
S

ShaneB

Member
My god Toma, thanks in advance for all the work you've put into this tournament!

I got sucked into finally playing some game called Half-life 2, so I haven't played FS as much as I'd like. I don't see myself making it past the first round :)

Group J, feel free to add me! Yackie, n8BitMan, slaughterking, let's have some fun matches!
 
Z

Zomo

Member
Alright so two games between CzarTim and Doolez (thought i'd make it neater like Palmer did)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt1AFcub_lY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoQMJKEgz6I

CzarTim
Wins: 1
Losses: 1
Soldiers Killed: 1
Soldiers Lost: 3

Doolez
Wins: 1
Losses: 1
Soldiers Killed: 3
Soldiers Lost: 1

Two games between Vlodril and Doolez
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05XVwJDhBIg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5DLA373Sv4

Vlodril
Wins: 1
Losses: 1
Soldiers Killed: 6
Soldiers Lost: 3

Doolez
Wins: 1
Losses: 1
Soldiers Killed: 3
Soldiers Lost: 6
 
L

Ledsen

Member
Second game between me (Nevvermore) and ryandg. Final score for our matches: 1 - 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAwb4-QguG0

This was an awesome game, just look at the before and after:

28iah09.jpg


ev47yq.jpg
 
R

RyanDG

Member
Ledsen said:
Second game between me (Nevvermore) and ryandg. Final score for our matches: 1 - 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAwb4-QguG0

This was an awesome game, just look at the before and after:]
Click to expand...

I definitely got paid back for my little ducking game peeking around the corner to shoot you from last match. In the middle of the game, i backed my guy away from cover expecting you to blast the cover spot with a rocket, instead I get pegged by a machine gunner sitting exactly where I thought he was when he stood up. GG though definitely. I couldn't figure out where to go once I went down 2. :(
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Woah guys, thanks for making neat lists. Definitely makes sorting stuff out and copying it to the tourney table easier.

I am now back at home and will continuosly update the table.

Edit: And also thanks for posting the tournament reminder :)

Awesome, guys.
 
L

Ledsen

Member
RyanDG said:
I definitely got paid back for my little ducking game peeking around the corner to shoot you from last match. In the middle of the game, i backed my guy away from cover expecting you to blast the cover spot with a rocket, instead I get pegged by a machine gunner sitting exactly where I thought he was when he stood up. GG though definitely. I couldn't figure out where to go once I went down 2. :(
Click to expand...

Yeah I was like "Nooo he's backing away... straight back! Yes!!!". I also took great care checking ALL the spots your rockets could reach from the very first turn, and made sure to stay far away from those. Then I finally decided to save my own rocket for the second turn, because you wouldn't be able to see where my rocket guy was from his rocket trail on the first turn and go the other way. It payed off on the second turn when you had to guess where my guy was and where he'd shoot, and you happened to guess wrong. I also loved your little invincible machine gunner narrowly avoiding two rockets while the building was being demolished around him :)
 
I

InertiaXr

Member
Wow, I just got killed by a grenade with the biggest blast radius I have ever seen. Nearly every encounter I get into has unfathomable results that go against me. Ah well, I'm sure the game calculates every situation to how both the guys are setup, so it's my fault.


Edit:
Can anybody attempt to explain this to me. I have a MG guy behind cover, and the enemy MG is behind cover, and I lost the 1st encounter because of DUNNO LOL. Then the next turn I have a MG guy behind cover that was ducking the previous turn, so I have him stand up while aiming right at the enemy from the previous turn, and that guy turns to aim at my guy and then kills him. Now 6-14 online.

I typically don't play many games online because it's never any fun, besides things that are still psuedo-single player like rallying online in the Dirt series for example. I bought this in the summer sale because it looked promising but damn
 
L

Ledsen

Member
Wait... there are snipers in this game??? I've played like 30 matches and I've never seen one! edit: at least I don't think I have...
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Ledsen said:
Wait... there are snipers in this game??? I've played like 30 matches and I've never seen one! edit: at least I don't think I have...
Click to expand...

Yup there are. But no in the extermination mode, since the other 4 units are better balanced.
 
I

Instro

Member
Ledsen said:
Wait... there are snipers in this game??? I've played like 30 matches and I've never seen one! edit: at least I don't think I have...
Click to expand...
Snipers seem to be the rarest unit in terms of how often it shows up.
Toma said:
Yup there are. But no in the extermination mode, since the other 4 units are better balanced.
Click to expand...
Really? I could have sworn I've had one show up in extermination.
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Instro said:
Snipers seem to be the rarest unit in terms of how often it shows up.
Click to expand...

That might be, but they are not "uncommon" in modes other than extermination. This and maybe disputed are the only modes where you cant get a sniper.

Instro said:
Really? I could have sworn I've had one show up in extermination.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure they dont show up in extermination. I am not so sure about disputed though.
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
InertiaXr said:
Edit:
Can anybody attempt to explain this to me. I have a MG guy behind cover, and the enemy MG is behind cover, and I lost the 1st encounter because of DUNNO LOL. Then the next turn I have a MG guy behind cover that was ducking the previous turn, so I have him stand up while aiming right at the enemy from the previous turn, and that guy turns to aim at my guy and then kills him. Now 6-14 online.

I typically don't play many games online because it's never any fun, besides things that are still psuedo-single player like rallying online in the Dirt series for example. I bought this in the summer sale because it looked promising but damn
Click to expand...

It would be always useful to have the youtube vid to go with it, or at least tell us who your opponent was so we can look it up.
 
R

RyanDG

Member
InertiaXr said:
Edit:
Can anybody attempt to explain this to me. I have a MG guy behind cover, and the enemy MG is behind cover, and I lost the 1st encounter because of DUNNO LOL. Then the next turn I have a MG guy behind cover that was ducking the previous turn, so I have him stand up while aiming right at the enemy from the previous turn, and that guy turns to aim at my guy and then kills him. Now 6-14 online.

I typically don't play many games online because it's never any fun, besides things that are still psuedo-single player like rallying online in the Dirt series for example. I bought this in the summer sale because it looked promising but damn
Click to expand...

There is a delay in the timing between going from duck to stand, and stand to duck, before you can fire. More than likely, when you were standing the person didn't have to manually aim at your guy (rather your guy stood in his field of view), because of that he had the advantage with cover and the timing delay between going from duck to stand vs his field of vision turn.

From what you have described at least...
 
I

Instro

Member
Toma said:
I am pretty sure they dont show up in extermination. I am not so sure about disputed though.
Click to expand...
Yeah I might be thinking of disputed or something.

InertiaXr said:
Can anybody attempt to explain this to me. I have a MG guy behind cover, and the enemy MG is behind cover, and I lost the 1st encounter because of DUNNO LOL. Then the next turn I have a MG guy behind cover that was ducking the previous turn, so I have him stand up while aiming right at the enemy from the previous turn, and that guy turns to aim at my guy and then kills him. Now 6-14 online.

I typically don't play many games online because it's never any fun, besides things that are still psuedo-single player like rallying online in the Dirt series for example. I bought this in the summer sale because it looked promising but damn
Click to expand...
For your first one, its hard to say. I'd have to see the match, but its either that he was better placed or his MG targeted yours first. As for the 2nd one, a unit thats not moving and is behind cover always has the advantage over anything else. Going from ducking to standing puts you at a slight disadvantage and since you did it within his field of view your guy got killed.
 
I

InertiaXr

Member
RyanDG said:
There is a delay in the timing between going from duck to stand, and stand to duck, before you can fire. More than likely, when you were standing the person didn't have to manually aim at your guy (rather your guy stood in his field of view), because of that he had the advantage with cover and the timing delay between going from duck to stand vs his field of vision turn.

From what you have described at least...
Click to expand...

So as long as the enemy is in your guy's field of view, there is no delay for having to aim to him, regardless of where he is within the FoV, straight down the middle or on the very edge of the cone? Frustrating to try and play this without any idea of the basic mechanics until I see them unfold in front of me. Still decent fun in spite of the losing.
 
R

RyanDG

Member
InertiaXr said:
So as long as the enemy is in your guy's field of view, there is no delay for having to aim to him, regardless of where he is within the FoV, straight down the middle or on the very edge of the cone? Frustrating to try and play this without any idea of the basic mechanics until I see them unfold in front of me. Still decent fun in spite of the losing.
Click to expand...

There's still a delay for him to aim if he's in the cone of view, but it's shorter than the delay needed to go from duck to stand which is what gave him the advantage. From what I understand at least.

Edit - And ultimately the delay to turn to aim (while already in his field of view rather than with a manual turn) vs whatever you do to get into his field of view will give him the advantage if he was not moving and was behind cover.
 
L

Ledsen

Member
InertiaXr said:
Wow, I just got killed by a grenade with the biggest blast radius I have ever seen. Nearly every encounter I get into has unfathomable results that go against me. Ah well, I'm sure the game calculates every situation to how both the guys are setup, so it's my fault.


Edit:
Can anybody attempt to explain this to me. I have a MG guy behind cover, and the enemy MG is behind cover, and I lost the 1st encounter because of DUNNO LOL. Then the next turn I have a MG guy behind cover that was ducking the previous turn, so I have him stand up while aiming right at the enemy from the previous turn, and that guy turns to aim at my guy and then kills him. Now 6-14 online.

I typically don't play many games online because it's never any fun, besides things that are still psuedo-single player like rallying online in the Dirt series for example. I bought this in the summer sale because it looked promising but damn
Click to expand...
Firefights have clear rules, there's nothing random about it. Standing still in cover beats everything else, including people who just moved (ran to cover, stood up, etc). If you're both running to cover, the one who reaches it first wins the firefight after.
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
RyanDG said:
There's still a delay for him to aim if he's in the cone of view, but it's shorter than the delay needed to go from duck to stand which is what gave him the advantage. From what I understand at least.

Edit - And ultimately the delay to turn to aim (while already in his field of view rather than with a manual turn) vs whatever you do to get into his field of view will give him the advantage if he was not moving and was behind cover.
Click to expand...

Nope, it doesnt matter where a soldier is standing in the field of view of another soldier.
If both can see each other, it does not matter how far they are away from each others "center of view", this is not a factor that decides the outcome.
 
R

RyanDG

Member
Toma said:
Nope, it doesnt matter where a soldier is standing in the field of view in another soldier.
If both can see each other, it does not matter how far they are away from each others "center of view".
Click to expand...

I stand corrected then.

Edit: I was under the impression the turn radius was built into the determination... For example, if two guys were behind cover, but one was closer to the center of the aim spot. They both go from duck to stand in the same decision and made no choices other than stand. I had thought the person with the less 'turn' would win that match-up.

What does happen? Both die? Random? I may set this up in a skirmish to see what happens.
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
RyanDG said:
I stand corrected then.

Edit: I was under the impression the turn radius was built into the determination... For example, if two guys were behind cover, but one was closer to the center of the aim spot. They both go from duck to stand in the same decision and made no choices other than stand. I had thought the person with the less 'turn' would win that match-up.

What does happen? Both die? Random? I may set this up in a skirmish to see what happens.
Click to expand...

Both die probably as they will shoot their projectile at the same time, killing each other at the same time.

And its written in the how to FAQ of their forum that "turning" doesnt make any difference if both are inside the point of view. Cant search for it right now though.

Aaaaand everything so far SHOULD be updated now in the tourney table post.
Please check if your statistics are correct if you got the time.
 
M

Mimir

Member
RyanDG said:
I stand corrected then.

Edit: I was under the impression the turn radius was built into the determination... For example, if two guys were behind cover, but one was closer to the center of the aim spot. They both go from duck to stand in the same decision and made no choices other than stand. I had thought the person with the less 'turn' would win that match-up.

What does happen? Both die? Random? I may set this up in a skirmish to see what happens.
Click to expand...
If all other factors are tied, then it's determined by position, which is essentially random. I believe in some game modes, ties are automatically given to the defending player, at least on the first turn, but I don't remember the details.
 
I

Instro

Member
Toma said:
Both die probably as they will shoot their projectile at the same time, killing each other at the same time.

And its written in the how to FAQ of their forum that "turning" doesnt make any difference if both are inside the point of view. Cant search for it right now though.

Aaaaand everything so far SHOULD be updated now in the tourney table post.
Please check if your statistics are correct if you got the time.
Click to expand...
Looks good to me, good job!
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Finally made my first turn in this tournament. (yay)
And somehow I cant stop thinking that it wasnt as good as I want it to be.

*sigh*

Some people from my group not replying or reacting to their PM's doesnt help either :p

Nishastra said:
Won my first match against snoopeasystreet. Lost one guy, the one who was doomed from the start :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKlNMqeBFGo
Click to expand...

Updated as well.
 
S

slaughterking

Member
Thanks for organizing the tournament, Toma. I contacted the guys in my group and hope to get this started soon. Even though I have a suspicion that not everyone will actually participate seeing how they have not been really active in the game yet.
But we'll see. Advancing past the group stage by default may not be so terrible. :p
 
P

Palmer_v1

Member
Yeah, ducking and standing are actually some of the worst ways to start a firefight, cause they give a flat amount of time before you start shooting. Toma is also correct about the cone of view. It does not matter where the enemy appears in your cone in regards to how fast you'll shoot them.

Essentially, once you "acquire" a target, the game immediately calculates how many seconds it will take to kill them. Things that modify that time:

Ducking/standing
target's cover
movement speed at time of acquisition and shortly beforehand
aiming or not
distance

Being behind cover yourself does not speed up your own shooting, but slows down the opponent instead.
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Versipellis said:
Group A

OldGamer vs archnemesis
winner: OldGamer

1st match: Oldgamer 2 - archnemesis 1
2nd match: Oldgamer 3 - archnemesis 0

Video of the second match
(I've some connection issues, so the first match will be uploaded later)
Click to expand...

Updated the second match. I'll get confused with the statistics if I do them not directly in connection with adding the youtube videos. Just post it later and I'll add it as well :)

Or tell me to upload that vid for you.
 
N

n8

Unconfirmed Member
slaughterking said:
Thanks for organizing the tournament, Toma. I contacted the guys in my group and hope to get this started soon. Even though I have a suspicion that not everyone will actually participate seeing how they have not been really active in the game yet.
But we'll see. Advancing past the group stage by default may not be so terrible. :p
Click to expand...
Yes, let's see. :p

Anyways, I'm in the same boat. I contacted the others in Group J and is awaiting for future press.
 
C

chicken_ramen

Member
Nishastra said:
Won my first match against snoopeasystreet. Lost one guy, the one who was doomed from the start :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKlNMqeBFGo
Click to expand...

You basically did all you could. The other option is to duck the MG right behind that low cover window he's next to and aim at the doorway. If the shotgun isn't aiming as it comes through the door you should be close enough to get the one shot close range MG kill. At extreme close range an unaimed shotgun loses its close range bonus to an aimed MG, because of just how fast the MG fires.

If that enemy MG aims into the room (as his did) that MG will never survive. As you realised though, your shotgun is well placed to kill that MG on the first turn anyway, particularly if it sits exposed at that window.
 
L

Ledsen

Member
btw, how long are we allowed to take to finish our group matches? I don't think my nerves can handle more than 1 or 2 matches each day :p
 
T

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Ledsen said:
btw, how long are we allowed to take to finish our group matches? I don't think my nerves can handle more than 1 or 2 matches each day :p
Click to expand...

I planned more or less about 2 weeks for the group phase, so lets go with that as a raw estimation for now.

RyanDG said:
RyanDG (Green) vs Krypticjoker (Red)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebsDKQgXEh4

GG kryptic. sent you the invite for our second.
Click to expand...

And updated.
 
I

Instro

Member
Ok played some more games today, I think this should be it for my group matches.

Group K

Instro vs corto:

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqh1Mz5BQjs
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhrbrgeG2Ds

Instro
Wins: 2
Losses: 0
Draws: 0
Soldiers Killed: 6
Soldiers Lost: 2

corto
Wins: 0
Losses:2
Draws: 0
Soldiers Killed: 2
Soldiers Lost: 6

Instro vs Gerhalt

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bmQcS4l2Tk
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhBQLo0SuFU

Instro
Wins: 2
Losses: 0
Draws: 0
Soldiers Killed: 6
Soldiers Lost: 1

Gerhalt:
Wins: 0
Losses: 2
Draws: 0
Soldiers Killed: 1
Soldiers Lost: 6
 
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