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[iFootball]

Thanks for all the kind words...

Man your Thread is awesome !!! .... now, if you could only do something similar for a Laptop I would be so very very happy, since I move around a lot with my current one and Im looking to update to a decent, cheap, gaming laptop.

 

[Cheeto]

Important question:

What are my options for connecting to my 67" tv? Am I looking at VGA only? Is HDMI a possibility? I'm completely out of the loop.

HDMI for sure... more importantly, PC on your TV??? with the comfy couch? this is madness!

 

[K.Jack]

Great stuff brain_stew!

When the school season is getting close, I intend to do a small writeup on the state of mobile gaming, and I'll be giving a pricing guide as well as what to expect over the next six to eight months.

Things are changing rapidly right now, especially pertaining to what kind of gaming power you'll be able to get for less than $1k. These are exciting times for the mobile enthusiast community.

Stay tuned.

Here's a preview of what Nvidia has coming up, and these aren't even the high-end GT200 chips. You'll find these in notebooks that are around $1k, and less. And yes, these are genuine GT200 based GPUs. Ding, dong, G92 is finally dead.

Check the TDP on this stuff yo. My GTX 260M is a 65w chip, with 112 processor cores and clocked @ 550/1350/800.

 

[The S-Word]

thanks, my pc is doing flips trying to keep up with 1080p res and i need to just dive in and start ordering parts maybe even this week and im too lazy to do current research

 

[Ikuu]

For ATI cards you need to use their DVI-HDMI connector, comes with your GPU, otherwise it doesn't work.

 

[Dizzle24]

O_O


its like legos dude

Well obviously I've never built a PC from scratch! I've installed DVDRW drives, hard drives, etc. But never motherboards/processers, etc.

thanks people. :lol :lol :lol

 

[TheExodu5]

$600 Canadian sound the right sort of price? I think I'd have to make too many compromises to hit $500. Might give it a go.

$650, definitely. Canadian prices are not really up to par on US prices (even considering the exchange rate), and we do have to pay for shipping.

One bonus with NCIX: non B.C. residents only have to pay 5% tax.

Also, NCIX can mount the entire system for a small fee.

 

[brain_stew]

Great stuff brain_stew!

When the school season is getting close, I intend to do a small writeup on the state of mobile gaming, and I'll be giving a pricing guide as well as what to expect over the next six to eight months.

Things are changing rapidly right now, especially pertaining to what kind of gaming power you'll be able to get for less than $1k. These are exciting times for the mobile enthusiast community.

Stay tuned.

Here's a preview of what Nvidia has coming up, and these aren't even the high-end GT200 chips. You'll find these in notebooks that are around $1k, and less. And yes, these are genuine GT200 based GPUs. Ding, dong, G92 is finally dead.

Check the TDP on this stuff yo. My GTX 260M is a 65w chip.

I saw that the other day. The GTS 250M looks like a monster considering its tiny 28w envelope. that thing should have no problem fitting in 15/16" laptops and shouldn't eat through batteries like you'd expect either.

Nvidia's first DX 10.1 and GDDR5 card as well, exciting stuff, the performance/watt is insane.

 

[tokkun]

Is 30fps with no AA really playing Crisis at 'high or max' settings?

 

[zbarron]

This most recent build of mine was the first one I did from scratch. I had upgraded parts before but never gone as far as a new motherboard. This is the video I used and it really helped me. It makes it seem easy and it really is as easy as it seems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1NxsHpaL_s&feature=channel_page

Also I really like the music. I suggest to anyone that feels intimidated that they watch this. I'm sure there are better videos out there but this one helped me.

Is 30fps with no AA really playing Crisis at 'high or max' settings?

To me it is. Enabling AA disables the built in edge AA and I prefer the edge AA.

 

[Stop It]

Especially if you get a Gigabyte motherbaord. They have all the colours of the rainbow on them things. :lol :lol

Hey, I like the colour scheme of my GA-EP45-DS3P, although it does clash a bit with my pure black PCB of my GTX275, eheh.

Is 30fps with no AA really playing Crisis at 'high or max' settings?

I take it you haven't played the game? Even my GTX275 and Q9400 (At a healthy 3.6Ghz) has troubles playing the game at Very High @ 1920 x 1080, the game is pure evil.

So yes, 30fps is acceptable, especially as the game doesn't feel too bad at that fps, not 100% great, but playable.

 

[TheExodu5]

Is 30fps with no AA really playing Crisis at 'high or max' settings?

Yes. At 30fps and above, Crysis feels very smooth. It has a lot of motion blurring, and is incredibly responsive. Also, you don't want to use AA in Crysis, since it does not work on foliage. It's better to use the edgeAA filter in game (which blurs everything a bit). No hardware out there is fast enough to do AA + Transparency Supersampling for Crysis.

On my GTX 275, whenever I'm getting around 40fps (on slightly higher than high settings), it almost feels like 60fps.

Also, the CCC config will help you get more visual/performance out of your hardware.

----

I'm a total framerate whore, and Crysis was quite playable at high CCC settings with my old E6600 and 8800GT. A few drops to mid-low 20s (rarely), but it mostly stayed around 30fps which plays quite well. My current GTX 275 runs beautifully and averages over 40fps with higher-than-high CCC settings.

My only problem with the game is that the IQ is rather poor, but like I said, there isn't enough good hardware out there to get good IQ out of the game.

Hey, I like the colour scheme of my GA-EP45-DS3P, although it does clash a bit with my pure black PCB of my GTX275, eheh.

I take it you haven't played the game? Even my GTX275 and Q9400 (At a healthy 3.6Ghz) has troubles playing the game at Very High @ 1920 x 1080, the game is pure evil.

So yes, 30fps is acceptable, especially as the game doesn't feel too bad at that fps, not 100% great, but playable.

The trick is to use the custom CCC config. You unlock the biggest visual impacting features from Very High with no performance hit (in fact, some tweaks it does makes it run even faster than High). Basically, you get the visuals of Very High, at less than the performance needed from High. Also, make sure AA is off, and you use edgeAA forced thorugh the console or config instead (I think CCC may do this by default).

 

[Blizzard]

My only problem with the game is that the IQ is rather poor, but like I said, there isn't enough good hardware out there to get good IQ out of the game.

Just to make sure I understand correctly, what exactly is "good image quality" if Crysis lacks it? I suppose you're referring to foilage not being anti-aliased enough?

 

[CoolS]

This thread makes me wanting to get into PC gaming again.

It's must have been 3 or 4 years since I last build my own PC. Oh so many fun times. I should get into it again, but I need to read up on SO many things and search for cheap components here in Germany. Plus I need some money first.

Some day....

 

[brain_stew]

Just to make sure I understand correctly, what exactly is "good image quality" if Crysis lacks it? I suppose you're referring to foilage not being anti-aliased enough?

Antia-aliasing, anisotropic filtering and resolution are usually what people mean when they refer to IQ. Standard AA doesn't work on the foliage in Crysis and edge-AA, which does, has mixed results, though I personally think its a decent solution. You can't use anisotropic filtering with parallax mapping either which is a big bummer as games without AF can look rather ugly (see: 90%+ of console gams) with their blurry, smudged textures but the POM mapping is one of the best effects in the game. Resolution also kills performance in Crysis. So yeah, it often suffers from sub par IQ regardless of the rig you use. Hopefully CE3 sorts those niggles out.

 

[fatty]

Nice. This thread will need an update the month before SC2 launches.

That's what I'm waiting for, and by then Windows 7 will be out.

 

[brain_stew]

Is 30fps with no AA really playing Crisis at 'high or max' settings?

EdgeAA set at 2 is much more effective than 4xmsaa in Crysis I find, since the the foliage is the worst offender when it comes to aliasing. So you're actually getting quite a lot of AA, its just done through shaders instead.

Uhh, NCIX keeps giving me SQL errors, and I nearly had the thing done, should have managed sub $650 no bother. Is it just me or is the whole site buggered?

This most recent build of mine was the first one I did from scratch. I had upgraded parts before but never gone as far as a new motherboard. This is the video I used and it really helped me. It makes it seem easy and it really is as easy as it seems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1NxsHpaL_s&feature=channel_page

Also I really like the music. I suggest to anyone that feels intimidated that they watch this. I'm sure there are better videos out there but this one helped me.


To me it is. Enabling AA disables the built in edge AA and I prefer the edge AA.

I'll add that the op, its quite a nice little helper.

 

[TheExodu5]

Just to make sure I understand correctly, what exactly is "good image quality" if Crysis lacks it? I suppose you're referring to foilage not being anti-aliased enough?

When I say Image quality, it tends to mean the quality at which the intended image is rendered. Art assets are not considered.

Less artifacts and aliasing, as well as better realized texture renduring, are accomplished mainly through resolution, anisotropic filtering, and anti-aliasing (or the fill rate stuff brain_stew's been messing around with produces even more astounding results).

Although Crysis looks absolutely fantastic through all of the shaders, lighting, terrain, etc... it has fairly poor IQ. AA is unusable. Distant terrain is heavily blurred and artifacts are visible.

Even so, the sheer amazingness of the visuals, especially the motion blur, tends to hide the poor IQ during play. It's only really detectable when you're analyzing the scene.

 

[FrankT]

Excellent thread. I probably will not be upgrading for a few years now, but whatever I do get it's going to be Windows 7 for sure.

This is the video I used and it really helped me. It makes it seem easy and it really is as easy as it seems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1NxsHpaL_s&feature=channel_page

Thanks for the video.

Are there any videos out there that show what do once you startup? What steps to follow? Is it pretty easy to the point of just following on screen instructions until you are ready to install your OS? I'm fairly sure I want to build my next one and that is pretty much the only thing I don't have experience with.

 

[Wes]

Nice OP. Will have to come back here in a couple of months time.

 

[matmanx1]

So if I'm considering going from WinXP x32 to Windows 7 x64 I'm going to have to do a full format and reinstall, right? No upgrading from the x32 to x64 versions or did I read that wrong?

If so, I may wait until I finish playing The Witcher with the uncut mods. Took me nearly half a day to get the thing installed, patched and modded (although it now looks and plays awesomely!) and I dont want to go through that again anytime soon.

Oh and thanks to the high resolution screenshot thread we have floating around here on Gaf I went and bought Mirror's Edge on PC. Game looks freakin fantastic with even a little AA enabled and is great fun for only $20. PC gaming has NEVER been in a better spot than it is right now with prices. Jump in!

 

[brain_stew]

The Canadian rig comes in at $646.34 so under budget. Success!!

Gonna post up the details here soon.

So if I'm considering going from WinXP x32 to Windows 7 x64 I'm going to have to do a full format and reinstall, right? No upgrading from the x32 to x64 versions or did I read that wrong?

If so, I may wait until I finish playing The Witcher with the uncut mods. Took me nearly half a day to get the thing installed, patched and modded (although it now looks and plays awesomely!) and I dont want to go through that again anytime soon.

Oh and thanks to the high resolution screenshot thread we have floating around here on Gaf I went and bought Mirror's Edge on PC. Game looks freakin fantastic with even a little AA enabled and is great fun for only $20. PC gaming has NEVER been in a better spot than it is right now with prices. Jump in!

That's correct, yes.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

This is the video I used and it really helped me. It makes it seem easy and it really is as easy as it seems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1NxsHpaL_s&feature=channel_page

Great little video. I would add one thing though, make sure to use the brass stand-off screws when attaching the motherboard inside the case. Most cases come with them pre-installed so it's almost a non-issue, but if you don't use them it will cause a short.

 

[CharminUltra]

YES! Thank you. I've been wanting to put together a PC for my bro

 

[Ikuu]

So if I'm considering going from WinXP x32 to Windows 7 x64 I'm going to have to do a full format and reinstall, right? No upgrading from the x32 to x64 versions or did I read that wrong?

You don't need to format, when you install Windows 7 it should just move all of the files to a Windows.old folder and you can copy over, if you have the means to backup all of your data then doing a complete format and install might be worth doing.

 

[radjago]

How did case and power supply prices get so inflated? A few years ago you could get a decent case and 300-350W power supply for $30-40.

 

[Draft]

So if I'm considering going from WinXP x32 to Windows 7 x64 I'm going to have to do a full format and reinstall, right? No upgrading from the x32 to x64 versions or did I read that wrong?

If so, I may wait until I finish playing The Witcher with the uncut mods. Took me nearly half a day to get the thing installed, patched and modded (although it now looks and plays awesomely!) and I dont want to go through that again anytime soon.

Oh and thanks to the high resolution screenshot thread we have floating around here on Gaf I went and bought Mirror's Edge on PC. Game looks freakin fantastic with even a little AA enabled and is great fun for only $20. PC gaming has NEVER been in a better spot than it is right now with prices. Jump in!

Full format.

 

[Draft]

How did case and power supply prices get so inflated? A few years ago you could get a decent case and 300-350W power supply for $30-40.

I'm not going to say you're wrong, because I honestly can't remember exactly, but I do think you're wrong. A decent PSU by itself has always been in the $30-50 range, and a case combined with a decent PSU was at least $50, and probably closer to $100.

 

[radjago]

I'm not going to say you're wrong, because I honestly can't remember exactly, but I do think you're wrong. A decent PSU by itself has always been in the $30-50 range, and a case combined with a decent PSU was at least $50, and probably closer to $100.

Okay, maybe not decent, but passable, as in it would support a entry-level-to-mid-range gaming rig.

 

[nubbe]

How did case and power supply prices get so inflated? A few years ago you could get a decent case and 300-350W power supply for $30-40.

One can still get that. But the PSU is usually garbage.

A quality PSU is worth the money. It is the one part I wouldn't be cheap on... since it drives everything!

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

Are there any videos out there that show what do once you startup? What steps to follow? Is it pretty easy to the point of just following on screen instructions until you are ready to install your OS? I'm fairly sure I want to build my next one and that is pretty much the only thing I don't have experience with.

Its usually just powering the computer up and making sure everything sounds and shows up correctly. Going into the bios to see it recognizes all the installed components. After that its sticking the OS disc in and following the directions.

 

[Tideas]

Is 30fps with no AA really playing Crisis at 'high or max' settings?

no AF either.

It's a quality PC, no less. But let's not turn on the hyperbole here.

 

[Draft]

Crysis on high at 1680x1050 arguably doesn't need AA, and even without AF, probably has better IQ than any console game running at 720p.

 

[Artadius]

Built this system two weeks ago for $700 flat:

Antec Sonata Plus 550 Black/ Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 550W Power Supply
AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Black Edition
GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit
BFG Tech BFGEGTX260MC896OCDE GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black IDE


Lessons learned:
-No clue why I got an IDE DVD drive. Doesn't matter to much in the grand scheme of things... but I got sloppy there at the end ordering my parts.
-Be careful getting a mid tower with those newer two slot video cards. I actually had to take a pair of aluminum shears to my case's HD bay in order to make room for the monster. It would NOT fit otherwise. I didn't really want a full tower :\

Observations:
-Running Windows 7 x64 RC. I love this OS and I'm coming straight from XP Pro. I'll be going to full release on day one. No issues whatsoever with it.
-System is pretty quiet and I've been able to run everything on max settings so far with no slowdowns or even an audible increase in fan speed from the case/vidcard.
-Built specifically for ease of upgrading. I can easily go to a better processor or even better overclock since its the Black Edition. I can double my DDR2 or wait a bit and plop in new DDR3 sticks later on for more performance. Plenty of expansion capabilities.

I know its not in the spirit of the $500 topic, but thought I'd throw this in there for anyone interested.

 

[Gully State]

Regarding that heatsink, I think I also heard it doesn't totally fit the 4850, and you needed to get a couple of additional small square heatsinks for the memory chips. Is that correct? (I think I took the heatsink off and used my own arctic silver 5, by the way, so if the goop was messed up it's my own fault )

You can have 2 chips share one of those longer small heatsinks. There's a youtube video on how to install it. Just follow that to the teeth and you'll be fine.

 

[Hazaro]

It's been said before, but I'd substitute the XFX 4850 instead (easily worth the extra $10-20), and HIGHLY recommend the 4890 as a very solid upgrade (as it's a no-brainer to upgrade).

Looks good, open the eyes of the unenlightened :lol

 

[Quazar]

Excellent thread. I probably will not be upgrading for a few years now, but whatever I do get it's going to be Windows 7 for sure.



Thanks for the video.

Are there any videos out there that show what do once you startup? What steps to follow? Is it pretty easy to the point of just following on screen instructions until you are ready to install your OS? I'm fairly sure I want to build my next one and that is pretty much the only thing I don't have experience with.

What?! Why a few years? Either way welcome to the club.

 

[brain_stew]

It's been said before, but I'd substitute the XFX 4850 instead (easily worth the extra $10-20), and HIGHLY recommend the 4890 as a very solid upgrade (as it's a no-brainer to upgrade).

Looks good, open the eyes of the unenlightened :lol

Well, yeah, its well worth the upgrade money, but I wanted to see what could be done for $500 so I left it out. Leaving it as an optional upgrade gives everyone as much information as possible, I feel.


Canadian $650 config added, what do you guys think? Reasonable:


CANADIAN GAF'S ULTIMATE $650 BUDGET GAMING RIG[/B]

[Motherboard (Gigabyte UD3 770)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35762
[CPU (Phenom ii X2 550)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=39335
[RAM (G.Skill 4GB 1066mhz)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=28306
[GPU (Saphire HD 4850 512MB)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=40317
[HDD (WD Caviar Green 640GB)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=39252
[DVD (Samsung 22x DVDRW)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=38115
[CASE ( Coolermaster 330 Elite)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=20935
[PSU (PC Power & Cooling Silencer 80+ 420W)]: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=36143&promoid=1087

Total cost: $646.34


Could a mod update the title to let canadian GAF know they can join the party as well at $650?

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Crysis on high at 1680x1050 arguably doesn't need AA, and even without AF, probably has better IQ than any console game running at 720p.

QFT. But let's let the console kid dig his own grave.

 

[Hazaro]

Well, yeah, its well worth the upgrade money, but I wanted to see what could be done for $500 so I left it out. Leaving it as an optional upgrade gives everyone as much information as possible, I feel.


Canadian $650 config added, what do you guys think? Reasonable:

Could a mod update the title to let canadian GAF know they can join the party as well at $650?

Looks good, can swap in this PSU to save $10:
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=30145

I'd slap the 4890 in bold + CAPS or something next to the 4850 honestly, since it's such a major upgrade for so little money.

 

[FrankT]

What?! Why a few years? Either way welcome to the club.

Because I still have a pretty good gaming rig although not built by me personally. I've never left PC gaming I just rarely game on it right now. Matter of fact I was a hardcore PC gamer in the times when games like the original Half Life were released. That's all I gamed on besides playing a few exclusives on borrowed consoles at the time. In 2-3 years it will need some updating though.

 

[brain_stew]

no AF either.

It's a quality PC, no less. But let's not turn on the hyperbole here.

AF has close to zero bearing on performance in games these days with a modern GPU, you can apply 4x or 8x to Crysis at 1680x1050 whilst still benefiting from edgeAA and get very reasonable performance on these rigs. That would give you significantly better IQ than any console game on the market fwiw.

I never said it'd max out Crysis, but high settings are absolutely achievable @ 1680x1050, throw a custom config in the mix and you'd think you were playing on very high. Heck, drop the resolution down to 720p if you want a boost in framerates, its PC gaming, you get to choose what you prefer.

 

[Gully State]

I'm so tempted to get the 4890 (I can't believe it's going for 150 AR on newegg....that's how much I paid for the 4850 9 months ago) but I just bought the 4850 last September and just recently dropped an aftermarket VGA cooler on it.

 

[Shaheed79]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHI..

Time to force my cheap ass friends to get a gaming PC so we can enjoy some real HD gaming together.

 

[Minsc]

Well, yeah, its well worth the upgrade money, but I wanted to see what could be done for $500 so I left it out. Leaving it as an optional upgrade gives everyone as much information as possible, I feel.

I just posted in the other thread, but the 4890 can be had for a mere $120-$130 now after rebates. Of course, rebates aren't for everyone, especially one-time deals, but still, an amazing price, for a card that gets a good 50%-150% more performance than the 4850 at higher resolutions. Link to benches.

18 fps with a 4850 vs 50 fps with a 4890. Just sayin'

Edit:

Here's STALKER Clear Sky at a lower resolution with no AA:

Not playable (18 fps again) vs playable (33 fps).

 

[brain_stew]

I've made it a little clearer in the op, that the GPU upgrades are well worth the money, the value of the 4850 shouldn't be written off though, its coming in at around $80 after rebate and for that it'll play any game at great settings so long as you don't game above 1680x1050 or so. Of course its going to crap out at higher resolutions with the IQ cranked, it just wasn't designed for those situations and I've made that pretty clear in the op.

 

[Blizzard]

;_; If people can convince me there's a reliable 4890 that's quiet and cool, I'd probably get it. I've seen reports of loudness, heat, and possible unreliability (i.e. I'd like to avoid buying an overclocked one). If there's one that meets those criteria and is reasonably priced, I might as well upgrade instead of using the aftermarket cooler on the 4850.

 

[Nemo]

Wow, nice job.

Add a wired 360 controller and you can play this gens best multi plat games at a cheaper price and better performance.

Oh most definitely. If you get a PC get this. Get this. Get this.

Then play Crysis with it.

 

[professor_t]

HDMI for sure... more importantly, PC on your TV??? with the comfy couch? this is madness!

That's the only way I could hop aboard the PC train. I've got this massive 1080p tv, the couch of the gods, and a 7.1 surround setup that could part your hair.

There's no way I could do the traditional desktop thing.

At a roughly $600 hit, I'm having trouble coming up with reasons why I should NOT do this.

 

[brain_stew]

;_; If people can convince me there's a reliable 4890 that's quiet and cool, I'd probably get it. I've seen reports of loudness, heat, and possible unreliability (i.e. I'd like to avoid buying an overclocked one). If there's one that meets those criteria and is reasonably priced, I might as well upgrade instead of using the aftermarket cooler on the 4850.

Most (all?) are still using the reference design, so I'd hold fire for now.