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[SuperSonic1305]

Damn. I paid over $500 just to fix my 7 year old crap machine. Next time it breaks down I might as well just get a new computer.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

No the problem is that people don't understand that today's high settings is tomorrow's medium settings. Your games are going to degrade in visual quality over the years, the bar will just be raised.

In the age of multiplatforms it's more likely you'll be lowering AA settings rather than dropping resolution or texture quality.

 

[Firestorm]

No the problem is that people don't understand that today's high settings is tomorrow's medium settings. Your games are going to degrade in visual quality over the years, the bar will just be raised.

All I wanna do is play TF2 with all settings on high and 4x MSAA =D

 

[brain_stew]

It's not impossible to make a decent gaming rig on the cheap, way under $2000 myth. But they still do get costly for a couple reasons. Like others mentioned, OS can be costly outside of OEM copies which bind it to said rig. Also a proper monitor can get a little pricey at times pending on if you mind or don't mind a larger one of course.

Biggest cost increaser I personally noticed was since you piece together everything individually, you can easily end up looking at each component and then say "well, this one is only $10-30 more so might as well get the bigger/better". You can easily end up doing that with nearly each component like I have fell for in the past and watch you final bill go up a bit over what you set a budget for.

That's precisely why I set a strict budget and stuck to it. Some level of control and restraint is very important if you want to stay on a budget.

The whole monitor thing is really a little silly, unless you want to factor in the cost of a HDTV with your console now? PCs and consoles will hook up to the exact same displays these days. The sub $200 23" 1080p monitor that I specified has enough connections to be used as an excellent HD display for your PC, 360 and PS3 without any extra switching devices. HDTVs and monitors are multipurpose devices these days, its silly not to make full use of them.

Still, the fact that you can get an awesome 1080p gaming rig and a nice, big 23" 1080p monitor to use with it for $750 is pretty astounding value if you ask me.

 

[J-Rzez]

That's precisely why I set a strict budget and stuck to it. Some level of control and restraint is very important if you want to stay on a budget.

The whole monitor thing is really a little silly, unless you want to factor in the cost of a HDTV with your console now? PCs and consoles will hook up to the exact same displays these days. The sub $200 23" 1080p monitor that I specified has enough connections to be used as an excellent HD display for your PC, 360 and PS3 without any extra switching devices. HDTVs and monitors are multipurpose devices these days, its silly not to make full use of them.

Still the fact that you can get an awesome 1080p gaming rig and a nice, big 23" 1080p monitor to use with it for $750 is pretty astounding value if you ask me.

Yeah, I learned to control myself when purchasing things anymore, especially since it's going to get "outdated" pretty quickly no matter what so just get ready to swallow your pride.

I think it's a bit different since people still don't understand that to some people "Internet is the new Cable TV". Despite reasons, they just don't get how multifacetted PCs are anymore for media, people still think HDTV's are a separate identity in the equation from PC and Console usage.

I would still add in the cost of an OS though. Even if it's OEM and not a full retail version, I wouldn't count something that's free for a specified length of time as ok since you're going to end up paying sooner or later.

But yeah, PC's aren't the mythological $2000+ rigs that some shy people may think. The last gaming rig I built for my friend was $1200 said and done, well under his expected costs. (Though this included various other needed items like Modem/Router, and of course OS/Monitor)

 

[brain_stew]

Yeah, I learned to control myself when purchasing things anymore, especially since it's going to get "outdated" pretty quickly no matter what so just get ready to swallow your pride.

I think it's a bit different since people still don't understand that to some people "Internet is the new Cable TV". Despite reasons, they just don't get how multifacetted PCs are anymore for media, people still think HDTV's are a separate identity in the equation from PC and Console usage.

I would still add in the cost of an OS though. Even if it's OEM and not a full retail version, I wouldn't count something that's free for a specified length of time as ok since you're going to end up paying sooner or later.

But yeah, PC's aren't the mythological $2000+ rigs that some shy people may think. The last gaming rig I built for my friend was $1200 said and done, well under his expected costs. (Though this included various other needed items like Modem/Router, and of course OS/Monitor)

Well, the point is my advice is that buying a Microsoft OS at this point is a big no no. I don't want to encourage people to go spending $100 on Vista when W7 is around the corner and they have a very good free alternative until then. An awful lot of people (Especially students and health staff) have access to a free/cut price OS and many already have a Windows OS already, so its not something that I feel should be included as part of the absolute cost.

I'm not trying to pretend it isn't there for many people, as it is, but most sane people will want to ditch XP sooner or later even if they're not building a new rig, so it doesn't necessarily coincide with the purchase of a new PC, though it often might.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You have amazing timing, brain_stew. I'm going to be building a computer in about two months and I might pester you (politely!) about updating this then if there's any difference.

 

[Gully State]

If you don't have an OS, can't you use the HDD from your previous computer to suppliment? I remember Kosma doing that for his $399 Crysis build.

 

[brain_stew]

If you don't have an OS, can't you use the HDD from your previous computer to suppliment? I remember Kosma doing that for his $399 Crysis build.

You'd want to do a fresh install. If your copy of Windows is the full or upgrade edition, you'll be able to use it on a new rig just fine.

If its an upgrade copy just do a fresh install but don't enter a key giving you a "trial" copy, then "upgrade" your trial copy and away you go. I do this all the time. With my £40 copy of Vista Ultimate x64:

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-uk/default.aspx

 

[Blizzard]

Those posts earlier make me feel kind of bad for buying the OEM Windows Vista 64 edition from Newegg. I bought it with a new system, technically, but I didn't resell it (except to myself, for free).

I'm not a fan of Microsoft's business practices, but if a retail OS runs $250 or something, that is a biiiiit steep. =( Though I should probably be more careful considering if I upgrade a video card it might count as changing my hardware. I forget how it works.

 

[Fredescu]

After reading Minsc's link, I wouldn't worry about it http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2007/01/8730.ars

 

[SS4Gogita]

If I didn't want/need a laptop for school I would totally sell it and use the money for a desktop like this

 

[brain_stew]

Those posts earlier make me feel kind of bad for buying the OEM Windows Vista 64 edition from Newegg. I bought it with a new system, technically, but I didn't resell it (except to myself, for free).

I'm not a fan of Microsoft's business practices, but if a retail OS runs $250 or something, that is a biiiiit steep. =( Though I should probably be more careful considering if I upgrade a video card it might count as changing my hardware. I forget how it works.

Motherboard is classed as a new PC.

Plenty people use OEM licenses, don't worry about it.

 

[Tom Penny]

I play everything at 1280 x 1024 . I can play almost all games on my 8800. What would be the best video card value wise to upgrade to to extend the life of my system. Unfortunetly I have an amd 5000+ CPU overclocked to 3.0 for a cpu. I really don't need to upgrade because there isn't much coming out until SC2 and then Diablo but i'm getting the itch.

 

[Hazaro]

I play everything at 1280 x 1024 . I can play almost all games on my 8800. What would be the best video card value wise to upgrade to to extend the life of my system. Unfortunetly I have an amd 5000+ CPU overclocked to 3.0 for a cpu. I really don't need to upgrade because there isn't much coming out until SC2 and then Diablo but i'm getting the itch.

Just wait, no point at that res.

 

[brain_stew]

I play everything at 1280 x 1024 . I can play almost all games on my 8800. What would be the best video card value wise to upgrade to to extend the life of my system. Unfortunetly I have an amd 5000+ CPU overclocked to 3.0 for a cpu. I really don't need to upgrade because there isn't much coming out until SC2 and then Diablo but i'm getting the itch.

Get yourself a nice big 1080p monitor, that'll give you a reason to upgrade! :lol

 

[Minsc]

I play everything at 1280 x 1024 . I can play almost all games on my 8800. What would be the best video card value wise to upgrade to to extend the life of my system. Unfortunetly I have an amd 5000+ CPU overclocked to 3.0 for a cpu. I really don't need to upgrade because there isn't much coming out until SC2 and then Diablo but i'm getting the itch.

Look at the benches here (across all the games, that just happens to go to FC2). I'm guessing you have a 8800 GTX? If so, that's the same as a 9800 GTX and compare the rest of the cards to that, notice it's basically at the bottom of those charts, it's not exactly a high end product these days.

You can see from the charts at 1280x1024 that the performance can be doubled by upgrading your video card in a lot of games. That will be somewhat muted by a slower cpu, but you should still at the very least see 1/2 of the increase shown in the charts. I doubt your games are completely cpu limited.

If you buy the card with the intention of moving it to a new PC down the road, even if only for a year or so until the DX11 cards come down in price, it could pay off I'd think.

 

[Monocle]

My compliments for an excellent thread, brain_stew. This is going to be useful for my next upgrade. I appreciate it.

 

[Rapping Granny]

Good job brain_stew on the canadian one, is there an intel processor that's about the same price and as fast as the AMD one you included?

 

[Firestorm]

Motherboard is classed as a new PC.

Plenty people use OEM licenses, don't worry about it.

Freakin' RAM is considered a new PC by Microsoft. I switched out the two 512MB sticks that were in my laptop for two 1GB sticks and I had to call them to re-activate my Vista -_-

 

[tokkun]

No other option you have for $500 will give you close to the graphical show you'll get from crysis at 30fps on gamer settings.

Is 30fps really sufficient for the game, though? The linked benchmarks show the framerate drops to 18fps in areas of high action. That seems unacceptable to me.

Mainly, I feel like saying 'this 4850 will play everything including Crysis at high/max settings' is unnecessary hyperbole, and if a gamer actually wants to play Crysis they need to step up to at least a 4870 or GTX260 and a budget of $700 (including an OS).

 

[Blizzard]

Is 30fps really sufficient for the game, though? The linked benchmarks show the framerate drops to 18fps in areas of high action. That seems unacceptable to me.

Mainly, I feel like saying 'this 4850 will play everything including Crysis at high/max settings' is unnecessary hyperbole, and if a gamer actually wants to play Crysis they need to step up to at least a 4870 or GTX260 and a budget of $700 (including an OS).

Warhead was playable even on my 4850, and I think that was at 1680x1050. I had to not put everything on ultra-high, though.

*edit*
To be fair, that probably wasn't "high action" though, and Warhead is supposed to run a little better than Crysis. They probably turned down some of the effects.

 

[Mareg]

I just bought a couple of parts to refresh my budget gaming rig.

Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P (Comes with the ACC unlocking core awesomeness)
AMD Phenom II X2 550 Black Edition Dual Core Processor Socket AM3 3.1GHZ 7MB Cache (The quad core in disguise)
G.SKILL F3-12800CL8D-4GBTD Trident PC3-12800 4GB 2X2GB DDR3-1600 CL8-8-8-21 Dual Channel Memory Kit (Was dirt cheap)
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 Direct Touch 3 Heatpipe Heatsink (keeping that quad happy and quiet)
Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound (happier CPU)


This thing costs a whooping 328 Canadian dollars and has the potential to rival with the best quad core AMD has to offer for a fraction of the price. Assuming I get lucky and my 2 disabled core aren't defective *crossing fingers*. If not I'll just sell the thing and try my luck with the 720.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

For anyone looking to build a budget gaming PC this combo (3Ghz Athlon II 250+MB+4GB RAM for $188-$20 MiR=$168)might be of interest.

 

[J-Rzez]

Well, the point is my advice is that buying a Microsoft OS at this point is a big no no. I don't want to encourage people to go spending $100 on Vista when W7 is around the corner and they have a very good free alternative until then. An awful lot of people (Especially students and health staff) have access to a free/cut price OS and many already have a Windows OS already, so its not something that I feel should be included as part of the absolute cost.

I'm not trying to pretend it isn't there for many people, as it is, but most sane people will want to ditch XP sooner or later even if they're not building a new rig, so it doesn't necessarily coincide with the purchase of a new PC, though it often might.

I'll be getting rid of XP when 7 launches, can't wait since I've heard nothing but glowing remarks on it (didn't try it out because I was lazy), I'll probably build a whole new rig around that same time. This time, I'm getting my case done by my auto bodyshop guy. He painted one of my old cars in House of Kolors Kandy Apple Red, and it was gorgeous. It's stuff like that too that jacks up the cost heh. Can't wait to use my car wax on my case :lol

 

[Tom Penny]

Look at the benches here (across all the games, that just happens to go to FC2). I'm guessing you have a 8800 GTX? If so, that's the same as a 9800 GTX and compare the rest of the cards to that, notice it's basically at the bottom of those charts, it's not exactly a high end product these days.

You can see from the charts at 1280x1024 that the performance can be doubled by upgrading your video card in a lot of games. That will be somewhat muted by a slower cpu, but you should still at the very least see 1/2 of the increase shown in the charts. I doubt your games are completely cpu limited.

If you buy the card with the intention of moving it to a new PC down the road, even if only for a year or so until the DX11 cards come down in price, it could pay off I'd think.

I was basically thinking you can get a 4870 for like a buck 50 nowadays. I will probably just wait since prices change all the time and I won't upgrade until like SC2.

 

[Htown]

Freakin' RAM is considered a new PC by Microsoft. I switched out the two 512MB sticks that were in my laptop for two 1GB sticks and I had to call them to re-activate my Vista -_-

That's odd. I did the same thing with my Vista laptop and Windows just recognized the new RAM and went about its business.

In fact, I had to go into system properties to even see that anything had changed.

 

[professor_t]

Games will look godly on that thing, 1080p and cranked IQ really makes a large difference on my 23" monitor and 40" HDTV, at 60"s+ its going to look insane.

Initially I was deterred because I worried that a PC tower would be an eyesore in my living room, but I probably could hide the damn thing well enough and go wireless with all of the peripherals.

I almost certainly would go with the more powerful graphics card, but even then it would be a total steal. I just need to figure out the OS situation.

 

[MWS Natural]

Initially I was deterred because I worried that a PC tower would be an eyesore in my living room, but I probably could hide the damn thing well enough and go wireless with all of the peripherals.

I almost certainly would go with the more powerful graphics card, but even then it would be a total steal. I just need to figure out the OS situation.

Just build a SFF PC. While I am waiting to get my video card back from newegg I moved my Lanbox Lite right next to my HT setup and it blends in fine (outside of the blue lights lol). It all depends on the look of your setup though, all of my components are black so it fits in nicely.

 

[2real4tv]

bookmarked

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Ugh I still remember when I shelled out $1780 for my first gaming PC (I was inexperienced).

Anyway great thread Brain_Stew. I'll probably need this come next summer. Hopefully by then 8 GB RAM will be much more affordable. As an animator I need as much RAM as I can get.

 

[Man God]

A five hundred dollar pc with five hundred dollars worth of upgrades will last about seven years of high end gaming from my experience with my last rig. With another $100 I had another case and the parts to make a new media server for my TV room. Win/Win.

Though my latest rig is getting a bit old now... Probably going to make a Windows 7 special PC early next year.

I will however go against the mold and say that while Crysis looks good it really isn't anything special as a game.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Just realized this. Why would anyone want a monitor? Just get a TV with a VGA port. I've done this with my PC and I'll never go back.

I will however go against the mold and say that while Crysis looks good it really isn't anything special as a game.

First Donkey Kong Country and now Crysis? What's with you and not liking great games with great graphics?

Spoiler

 

[TheFightingFish]

Nice thread brain_stew. I'm hoping that it's still around and updated when I'm looking to nab a new desktop.

As a side note one of my favorite things about the current wave of PC stuff is that it's actually possible to do a solid bit of gaming on a laptop that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I'm sure many of the hardcore PC guys would blanch at the resolution that I'm using and the framerates that I'm getting (I've never been a big IQ guy) but I'm able to play plenty of fun PC games with a duel-core machine with a 9600M GT that I picked up for like $700 almost a year ago. Heck, I even just did Crysis on mostly medium settings with this machine and still thought that it looked quite nice and ran at a playable rate.

You still have to be willing to sacrifice a soild bit of image quality to be a laptop only PC gamer. But I do like at least having the option of some mid level PC performance combined with laptop convenience that you can get for a not too unreasonable price these days. Portability comes in handy for the occasional TF2 lan party with the co-workers as well.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Nice thread brain_stew. I'm hoping that it's still around and updated when I'm looking to nab a new desktop.

As a side note one of my favorite things about the current wave of PC stuff is that it's actually possible to do a solid bit of gaming on a laptop that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I'm sure many of the hardcore PC guys would blanch at the resolution that I'm using and the framerates that I'm getting (I've never been a big IQ guy) but I'm able to play plenty of fun PC games with a duel-core machine with a 9600M GT that I picked up for like $700 almost a year ago. Heck, I even just did Crysis on mostly medium settings with this machine and still thought that it looked quite nice and ran at a playable rate.

You still have to be willing to sacrifice a soild bit of image quality to be a laptop only PC gamer. But I do like at least having the option of some mid level PC performance combined with laptop convenience that you can get for a not too unreasonable price these days. Portability comes in handy for the occasional TF2 lan party with the co-workers as well.

Sorta true. Those Alienware laptops are really nice. And MSi seems to be getting in the "highend" laptop gig as well.

 

[Bananimus]

Why would anyone want a monitor? Just get a TV with a VGA port.

HDMI is most likely a preferable alternative to VGA at this point. Any modern video card should be able to do HDMI (by way of DVI, usually).

 

[TheFightingFish]

Sorta true. Those Alienware laptops are really nice. And MSi seems to be getting in the "highend" laptop gig as well.

Honestly I'm not even really talking about any of the "highend" gaming laptops here. I'm just saying that with 90% of the laptops being sold out there if you just junk the integrated graphics for one of the moderate ATi or Nvidia laptop cards you can actually do quite a bit more gaming with one then you might expect. With older games you can crank up the settings to get them to look good, and with modern games (especially if you have a lower res laptop screen) you usually can use enough config and settings tweaks to get them running pretty solidly. Even if you can't nail the newest FPS you can still play tons of great PC exclusives in less demanding genres.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to get a 3-4 core Phenom? As time goes by more and more games will take advantage of 3-4+ cores, so these CPU's would probably give you better mileage.

$99 AMD Phenom II X3 710 2.6GHz

$119 AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz

$139 AMD Phenom II X4 810 2.6GHz

 

[Kosma]

Good thread.

My 399$ january 2008 gaming rig is still doing the job, but as you said the last year has been crazy and the time to jump in is def now.

 

[Hazaro]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to get a 3-4 core Phenom? As time goes by more and more games will take advantage of 3-4+ cores, so these CPU's would probably give you better mileage.

$99 AMD Phenom II X3 710 2.6GHz

$119 AMD Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz

$139 AMD Phenom II X4 810 2.6GHz

You can get a 1TB HDD for just $20 more, a tri or quad core for just $20 or $40 more, a 4890 for just $ more, a better PSU for $20 more, it just adds up continually.

 

[SimpleDesign]

The X3 710 is actually cheaper than the CPU in the OP.

 

[Hazaro]

The X3 710 is actually cheaper than the CPU in the OP.

:lol

Faster Duals are better for a gaming rig though.

 

[SimpleDesign]

:lol

Faster Duals are better for a gaming rig though.

The X3 710 will easily overclock to 3.0GHz+ unlike the original Phenom processors and as games become more CPU intensive that extra core will become more noticeable.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Damn. I paid over $500 just to fix my 7 year old crap machine. Next time it breaks down I might as well just get a new computer.

Dude, why the heck did you do that?!

Computer depreciate so badly with how fast technology ramps up!

 

[Hazaro]

The X3 710 will easily overclock to 3.0GHz+ unlike the original Phenom processors and as games become more CPU intensive that extra core will become more noticeable.

The 710 is certainly better value, but I doubt many games will utilize it soon, reaching under $500 is tough, $600 is more realistic.

 

[Stop It]

You can get a 1TB HDD for just $20 more, a tri or quad core for just $20 or $40 more, a 4890 for just $ more, a better PSU for $20 more, it just adds up continually.

Thats the beauty of PC gaming though, choice.

If you want to stick to a certain budget/gameplan, you can, but if you want to push the envelope a bit, whether it bit for future proofing or extra stuff just for the hell of it, you can too.

Anyway, going multi-core is certainly a future proof idea, but for now a cheap dual core will do you. By the time Quad Cores are actually needed (A Year or do) for many games the current Quad Cores from AMD will be much cheaper, yet again deferring costs.

 

[Hazaro]

Thats the beauty of PC gaming though, choice.

If you want to stick to a certain budget/gameplan, you can, but if you want to push the envelope a bit, whether it bit for future proofing or extra stuff just for the hell of it, you can too.

Anyway, going multi-core is certainly a future proof idea, but for now a cheap dual core will do you. By the time Quad Cores are actually needed (A Year or do) for many games the current Quad Cores from AMD will be much cheaper, yet again deferring costs.

And there's always a sweet spot

 

[Stink]

I built a system with

 

[dark_preacher]

why do you keep recommending 1920x1080 monitors over 1920x1200?

also everyone should just keep in mind that you get what you pay for. i'm not saying everyone has to have uber $2000+ but a lot of the stuff the op is saying is disingenuous or outright false.

this system will run most of todays games at medium to lower high settings but it will not run crysis on high settings at acceptable framerates. also at a low res like 1680x1050 most games will be a jaggy mess as this card doesn't have the grunt to push high aa+af settings. his pots that are likening it to a console are the most truthful of the entire thread.

 

[Durante]

this system will run most of todays games at medium to lower high settings

"Most of todays games" are built primarily for systems with 1/9th the memory, and maybe 1/10th of the graphics performance of the rig in the OP. It will easily be able to run them at high settings, at higher resolution, image quality and framerate than any console counterpart.