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[Mike Works]

So remember than scene where Margaery gave her grandmother that note and it was a rose with thorns. And they were all hinting that there was a plan.

And then Margaery got blown up.

That was kind of pointless.

 

[Crispy75]

So remember than scene where Margaery gave her grandmother that note and it was a rose with thorns. And they were all hinting that there was a plan.

And then Margaery got blown up.

That was kind of pointless.

It meant Olenna would leave the capital. Otherwise she might have hung around to try and de-convert her grandchildren.

 

[toastyToast]

Totally forgot about all that. Seems odd that Ned wouldn't tell Cat the truth.

Cat not playing the part would rouse suspicion. Bastards not being treated like shit is something exclusive to Dorne.

 

[Bisnic]

So remember than scene where Margaery gave her grandmother that note and it was a rose with thorns. And they were all hinting that there was a plan.

And then Margaery got blown up.

That was kind of pointless.

Remember when we spent nearly 2 seasons building up an eventual North vs South war just for the Freys & Boltons to betray & kill Robb & his army during a wedding?

"Well, that was kind of pointless."

That's GoT for you, they make you think something going to happen and then BAM! Nope, something else happen and they're dead. Although this time, the Cersei & wildfire wasn't unpredictable.

 

[effzee]

Man as amazing as the finale was I really felt like they could have touched upon Rickon dying a bit more.

Their youngest sibling brutally killed by Ramsay and besides Jon's moment of rage, nothing after.

That conversation Jon and Sansa have in the finale episode, could have been set by his corpse, coffin, or whatever burial tradition they follow. Kind of seemed glossed over.

I didn't feel "as bad" for Rickon as I did for other Starks dying but that is only because we knew and saw him the least but his siblings should have shown more of a reaction IMO.

 

[hoos30]

Gilly looked great.

The actress is hot irl. They do a great job muddying her up with makeup.

 

[HMD]

Gendry and Sam meet up and make some kickass Valyrian steel swords.

 

[Hot Coldman]

The actress is hot irl. They do a great job muddying her up with makeup.

She's Skins alumni IIRC. They knew how to pick them.

 

[Timbuktu]

So remember than scene where Margaery gave her grandmother that note and it was a rose with thorns. And they were all hinting that there was a plan.

And then Margaery got blown up.

That was kind of pointless.

That was more to show her loyalty and allegiance with her family rather than the church, which probably made her loss even more painful for Olenna. Otherwise as other said, Olenna might have stayed and more likely to keep siding with Cersei against the High Septon... which in turn probably means Cersei won't feel as isolated and resort to that playoff action.

 

[Nameless]

Ok, fair enough, those are solid counter arguments. My rebuttal:

But he completely disregarded the lives of his men. That's not right bro.

Again, I think it's off base to use this as an indictment on Jon's judgment. A. He didn't command his men to charge with him. B. It was a purely emotional decision, not some carefully considered strategic blunder.

Ask yourself, given everything we'd seen from the character throughout the previous 58.5 episodes, would it have been plausible for Jon to sit there and do nothing while his youngest brother, the last living male Stark as far as he knows, is murdered by a psychopath?

 

[Elandyll]

...
But he completely disregarded the lives of his men. That's not right bro.

No he did not.

He did not order a charge, Davos did.
If you watch the scene again, it's clear the only fault with Jon was throwing his life in an attempt to save his brother. Which was honorable, and inspiring to his men.

Breaking the war plan?
That's on Davos and Tormund.

It's also easy to consider Starks as dumb in hindsight (always 20/20) and from a viewer perspective where we get so much extra info, but I'll take the honorable way that inspire people, even if it'll draw the ire of the morally bankrupt in the process.
All you need is to surround yourself with people that are more cunninng/ devious than you and heed their advice.
Ned's problem was that he was isolated in KL (and relying on LF who was plotting against him). Robb did make boneheaded decisions though, true. That happens to guys who think with their boner, it's got nothing to do with "genetics".

But I think that Jon is about ready to see the need for counsel, and it's not like he wasn't seeing it already while agreeing sending Sam to become a Maester.

Again, people like to point at mistakes and call people dumb, but let's look at the whole picture:
- survives being captured by wildlings, and gain their support and admiration
- survived a coup by the "fooking legend" and took an opportunity to stab him in the face
- successfully defended the wall against a huge invading force of Wildlings and Giants
- made the right call in choosing to rescue thousands of wildlings because he saw the larger picture and the war to come
- unknowing help was on the way, made the self sacrificing choice that was at the time the only way (twice, once with Mance, once to try save his brother)
- due to his leadership and decision, becomes Lord Commander of the Night Watch by popular vote
- due to his battle prowess and grounded decisions, gains the admiration of all the houses in the north, becoming King in the North in SPITE of being a bastard
- bashed Ramsay's face in after beating him 1v1 (while being in a much worse state than him), having the insight to trade his sword for a shield
- is not weak when tough decisions have to be made. Executes the ones who betrayed him in the watch, but makes the wise decisions in not executing Mel as she might be of help against the WWs as a Priestess of Light.
- Was resurrected not just out of luck, but because he inspired people (Davos and Ed, ultimately Mel as well) to believe in him

Let's put that in contrast to cunning and devious plotters or plain evil ones:

Joffrey is dead, Ramsay is dead, Pycelle is dead, Tywin is dead, Margery is dead, High Sparrow is dead, Frey is dead, Viserys is dead, Stannis is dead, Umber is dead, Roose Bolton is dead, Slaver Masters are dead or in disgrace, Ser Alliser Thorne is dead, Olly is dead, Theon Greyjoy is... Reek, Janos Slynt is dead, Meryn Trant is dead, Myranda is dead, Balon Greyjoy is dead, Mel is in disgrace, LF's plans are crumbling and all his current power is at the whim of a psychotic child...
And a Ton of these saw their own demise by their own allies or family members.

That leaves: Cersei and Qyburn, isolated and surrounded by ennemies, Euron who plans to offer his "big cock" to someone intent on chopping it, and... ?

The only devious plotters left in somewhat "good" places are Olenna (she lost her whole family and only has revenge left), Tyrion (who paid more than his dues, but is backing the right horse, and he actually is a good person), and Varys (who has plotted overall for the good of the people in the kingdom, even if all that planning is about to come crashing down with the arrival of the WWs)

So yeah... the Stark way is Sooooo much worse, right?


#TeamStark
#TeamJon

 

[soundscream]

No he did not.

He did not order a charge, Davos did.
If you watch the scene again, it's clear the only fault with Jon was throwing his life in an attempt to save his brother. Which was honorable, and inspiring to his men.

Breaking the war plan?
That's on Davos and Tormund.

It's also easy to consider Starks as dumb in hindsight (always 20/20) and from a viewer perspective where we get so much extra info, but I'll take the honorable way that inspire people, even if it'll draw the ire of the morally bankrupt in the process.
All you need is to surround yourself with people that are more cunninng/ devious than you and heed their advice.
Ned's problem was that he was isolated in KL (and relying on LF who was plotting against him). Robb did make boneheaded decisions though, true. That happens to guys who think with their boner, it's got nothing to do with "genetics".

But I think that Jon is about ready to see the need for counsel, and it's not like he wasn't seeing it already while agreeing sending Sam to become a Maester.

Again, people like to point at mistakes and call people dumb, but let's look at the whole picture:
- survives being captured by wildlings, and gain their support and admiration
- survived a coup by the "fooking legend" and took an opportunity to stab him in the face
- successfully defended the wall against a huge invading force of Wildlings and Giants
- made the right call in choosing to rescue thousands of wildlings because he saw the larger picture and the war to come
- unknowing help was on the way, made the self sacrificing choice that was at the time the only way (twice, once with Mance, once to try save his brother)
- due to his leadership and decision, becomes Lord Commander of the Night Watch by popular vote
- due to his battle prowess and grounded decisions, gains the admiration of all the houses in the north, becoming King in the North in SPITE of being a bastard
- bashed Ramsay's face in after beating him 1v1 (while being in a much worse state than him), having the insight to trade his sword for a shield
- is not weak when tough decisions have to be made. Executes the ones who betrayed him in the watch, but makes the wise decisions in not executing Mel as she might be of help against the WWs as a Priestess of Light.
- Was resurrected not just out of luck, but because he inspired people (Davos and Ed, ultimately Mel as well) to believe in him

Let's put that in contrast to cunning and devious plotters or plain evil ones:

Joffrey is dead, Ramsay is dead, Pycelle is dead, Tywin is dead, Margery is dead, High Sparrow is dead, Frey is dead, Viserys is dead, Stannis is dead, Umber is dead, Roose Bolton is dead, Slaver Masters are dead or in disgrace, Ser Alliser Thorne is dead, Olly is dead, Theon Greyjoy is... Reek, Janos Slynt is dead, Meryn Trant is dead, Myranda is dead, Balon Greyjoy is dead, Mel is in disgrace, LF's plans are crumbling and all his current power is at the whim of a psychotic child...
And a Ton of these saw their own demise by their own allies or family members.

That leaves: Cersei and Qyburn, isolated and surrounced by ennemies, Euron who plans to offer his "big cock" to someone intent on chopping it, and... ?

The only devious plotters left in somewhat "good" places are Olenna (she lost her whole family and only has revenge left), Tyrion (who paid more than his dues, but is backing the right horse, and he actually is a good person), and Varys (who has plotted overall for the good of the people in the kingdom, even if all that planning is about to come crashing down with the arrival of the WWs)

So yeah... the Stark way is Sooooo much worse, right?


#TeamStark
#TeamJon

 

[Jumeira]

No he did not.

He did not order a charge, Davos did.
If you watch the scene again, it's clear the only fault with Jon was throwing his life in an attempt to save his brother. Which was honorable, and inspiring to his men.

Breaking the war plan?
That's on Davos and Tormund.

It's also easy to consider Starks as dumb in hindsight (always 20/20) and from a viewer perspective where we get so much extra info, but I'll take the honorable way that inspire people, even if it'll draw the ire of the morally bankrupt in the process.
All you need is to surround yourself with people that are more cunninng/ devious than you and heed their advice.
Ned's problem was that he was isolated in KL (and relying on LF who was plotting against him). Robb did make boneheaded decisions though, true. That happens to guys who think with their boner, it's got nothing to do with "genetics".

But I think that Jon is about ready to see the need for counsel, and it's not like he wasn't seeing it already while agreeing sending Sam to become a Maester.

Again, people like to point at mistakes and call people dumb, but let's look at the whole picture:
- survives being captured by wildlings, and gain their support and admiration
- survived a coup by the "fooking legend" and took an opportunity to stab him in the face
- successfully defended the wall against a huge invading force of Wildlings and Giants
- made the right call in choosing to rescue thousands of wildlings because he saw the larger picture and the war to come
- unknowing help was on the way, made the self sacrificing choice that was at the time the only way (twice, once with Mance, once to try save his brother)
- due to his leadership and decision, becomes Lord Commander of the Night Watch by popular vote
- due to his battle prowess and grounded decisions, gains the admiration of all the houses in the north, becoming King in the North in SPITE of being a bastard
- bashed Ramsay's face in after beating him 1v1 (while being in a much worse state than him), having the insight to trade his sword for a shield
- is not weak when tough decisions have to be made. Executes the ones who betrayed him in the watch, but makes the wise decisions in not executing Mel as she might be of help against the WWs as a Priestess of Light.
- Was resurrected not just out of luck, but because he inspired people (Davos and Ed, ultimately Mel as well) to believe in him

Let's put that in contrast to cunning and devious plotters or plain evil ones:

Joffrey is dead, Ramsay is dead, Pycelle is dead, Tywin is dead, Margery is dead, High Sparrow is dead, Frey is dead, Viserys is dead, Stannis is dead, Umber is dead, Roose Bolton is dead, Slaver Masters are dead or in disgrace, Ser Alliser Thorne is dead, Olly is dead, Theon Greyjoy is... Reek, Janos Slynt is dead, Meryn Trant is dead, Myranda is dead, Balon Greyjoy is dead, Mel is in disgrace, LF's plans are crumbling and all his current power is at the whim of a psychotic child...
And a Ton of these saw their own demise by their own allies or family members.

That leaves: Cersei and Qyburn, isolated and surrounced by ennemies, Euron who plans to offer his "big cock" to someone intent on chopping it, and... ?

The only devious plotters left in somewhat "good" places are Olenna (she lost her whole family and only has revenge left), Tyrion (who paid more than his dues, but is backing the right horse, and he actually is a good person), and Varys (who has plotted overall for the good of the people in the kingdom, even if all that planning is about to come crashing down with the arrival of the WWs)

So yeah... the Stark way is Sooooo much worse, right?


#TeamStark
#TeamJon

/mic drop

 

[duckroll]

The Stark way is bad. Jon suceeds because he doesn't follow the Stark way. He has honor but he also does dishonorable things to suceed. His is the way of the Dragon Wolf. The TargStark. The song of ice and fire.

 

[Croyles]

No he did not.

Pretty good post. I like many will get annoyed at some Stark decisions, but overall Jon Snow isn't bad when viewing the overall picture. Arya makes alright decisions and Sansa is learning. Ned and more so Catelyn were the ones that fucked up big time. Ned was understandable, Cat wasn't as much.

 

[duckroll]

Funny how the only Starks left alive are the bastard vowbreaker, the cannibal murderer, and Miss Ramsay. More proof that the true Stark way is for losers.

 

[dragonbane]

No he did not.

He did not order a charge, Davos did.
If you watch the scene again, it's clear the only fault with Jon was throwing his life in an attempt to save his brother. Which was honorable, and inspiring to his men.

Breaking the war plan?
That's on Davos and Tormund.

It's also easy to consider Starks as dumb in hindsight (always 20/20) and from a viewer perspective where we get so much extra info, but I'll take the honorable way that inspire people, even if it'll draw the ire of the morally bankrupt in the process.
All you need is to surround yourself with people that are more cunninng/ devious than you and heed their advice.
Ned's problem was that he was isolated in KL (and relying on LF who was plotting against him). Robb did make boneheaded decisions though, true. That happens to guys who think with their boner, it's got nothing to do with "genetics".

But I think that Jon is about ready to see the need for counsel, and it's not like he wasn't seeing it already while agreeing sending Sam to become a Maester.

Again, people like to point at mistakes and call people dumb, but let's look at the whole picture:
- survives being captured by wildlings, and gain their support and admiration
- survived a coup by the "fooking legend" and took an opportunity to stab him in the face
- successfully defended the wall against a huge invading force of Wildlings and Giants
- made the right call in choosing to rescue thousands of wildlings because he saw the larger picture and the war to come
- unknowing help was on the way, made the self sacrificing choice that was at the time the only way (twice, once with Mance, once to try save his brother)
- due to his leadership and decision, becomes Lord Commander of the Night Watch by popular vote
- due to his battle prowess and grounded decisions, gains the admiration of all the houses in the north, becoming King in the North in SPITE of being a bastard
- bashed Ramsay's face in after beating him 1v1 (while being in a much worse state than him), having the insight to trade his sword for a shield
- is not weak when tough decisions have to be made. Executes the ones who betrayed him in the watch, but makes the wise decisions in not executing Mel as she might be of help against the WWs as a Priestess of Light.
- Was resurrected not just out of luck, but because he inspired people (Davos and Ed, ultimately Mel as well) to believe in him

Let's put that in contrast to cunning and devious plotters or plain evil ones:

Joffrey is dead, Ramsay is dead, Pycelle is dead, Tywin is dead, Margery is dead, High Sparrow is dead, Frey is dead, Viserys is dead, Stannis is dead, Umber is dead, Roose Bolton is dead, Slaver Masters are dead or in disgrace, Ser Alliser Thorne is dead, Olly is dead, Theon Greyjoy is... Reek, Janos Slynt is dead, Meryn Trant is dead, Myranda is dead, Balon Greyjoy is dead, Mel is in disgrace, LF's plans are crumbling and all his current power is at the whim of a psychotic child...
And a Ton of these saw their own demise by their own allies or family members.

That leaves: Cersei and Qyburn, isolated and surrounced by ennemies, Euron who plans to offer his "big cock" to someone intent on chopping it, and... ?

The only devious plotters left in somewhat "good" places are Olenna (she lost her whole family and only has revenge left), Tyrion (who paid more than his dues, but is backing the right horse, and he actually is a good person), and Varys (who has plotted overall for the good of the people in the kingdom, even if all that planning is about to come crashing down with the arrival of the WWs)

So yeah... the Stark way is Sooooo much worse, right?


#TeamStark
#TeamJon

Hear Hear

The Stark way is bad. Jon suceeds because he doesn't follow the Stark way. He has honor but he also does dishonorable things to suceed. His is the way of the Dragon Wolf. The TargStark. The song of ice and fire.

Also agree with this. Stark way, but with exceptions when needed, seems to be the one to survive and stay likeable

 

[Bisnic]

Funny how the only Starks left alive are the bastard vowbreaker, the cannibal murderer, and Miss Ramsay. More proof that the true Stark way is for losers.

You forgot the guy responsible for everything that went(and will go) terribly bad in GoT.

1. Disobeyed his mother & discovered Jaime & Cersei fucking by doing so, which in turn break his legs, which make Cat kidnap Tyrion because she thinks he did it, which in turn start the war between the Lannisters & the Starks and all the shit that went bad afterward due to this.

2. Went like a dumbass into a vision without his "trainer", was found by the Night King and got his wolf, Hodor, his trainer & army of bomb wielding fairies killed in the process before his training was over. Was also responsible for turning Hodor into... Hodor.

3. Will probably go over the Wall like an idiot in season 7, thus breaking the magic barrier that was preventing the White Walkers from going to Westeros, and in doing so, will kill a good portion of people.

 

[soundscream]

Funny how the only Starks left alive are the bastard vowbreaker, the cannibal murderer, and Miss Ramsay. More proof that the true Stark way is for losers.

You left one out.......Starks Win!

 

[duckroll]

Haha, I forgot Bran, but somehow just posted a stupid fanfic about him riding a dragon in the other thread. LOL.

 

[Nameless]

No he did not.

nice post

Pretty good post. I like
many will get annoyed at some Stark decisions, but overall Jon Snow isn't bad when viewing the overall picture. Arya makes alright decisions and Sansa is learning. Ned and more so Catelyn were the ones that fucked up big time. Ned was understandable, Cat wasn't as much.

Cat made up for her stupidity by giving her son sound advice about the Freys, Greyjoys, and the Karstarks. Advice that the Young Wolf ignored.

Funny how the only Starks left alive are the bastard vowbreaker, the cannibal murderer, and Miss Ramsay. More proof that the true Stark way is for losers.

The Ramsay/Sansa marriage should be annulled on account of Ramsay's seed being weaker than Robyn Arryn's sword hand. Dude might as well have been shooting well water.

 

[EatChildren]

Ned failed and was folly to his own ignorance, obliviousness, and insistence on a one dimensional concept of honour even if the intentions were pure. In the same way anybody else would be condemned for being outplayed, Ned straight out fucked up and was bested by better politicians and social strategists in an environment he didn't understand. He was in well over his head and put all his chips on a guy driven by money to oppose a house with the most money and claim to the throne. His fuckup was based on good intentions, but the show is called Game of Thrones for a reason, and he lost the game because he wasn't the better player.

Robb was a decent military man who, like his father, was blind sighted by trees for the forest. With Ned it was honour. With Robb it was his cock. And his insistence on ignoring the advice of older, wiser council so he could stick his dick in a hot young nurse cost him the entire war. Robb failed.

Sansa is alright. She's got a solid arc and is shaping up to be a decent leader, probably due to first hand experience from all the bullshit she's been through and many sides of the fence she's seen.

Bran wigged out, went back in time and permanently retarded a stable boy only to murder him in the present. Good job Bran.

Rickon was screen fodder.

And that leaves Arya the crazed serial killer.

 

[dragonbane]

You forgot the guy responsible for everything that went(and will go) terribly bad in GoT.

1. Disobeyed his mother & discovered Jaime & Cersei fucking by doing so, which in turn break his legs, which make Cat kidnap Tyrion because she thinks he did it, which in turn start the war between the Lannisters & the Starks and all the shit that went bad afterward due to this.

2. Went like a dumbass into a vision without his "trainer", was found by the Night King and got his wolf, Hodor, his trainer & army of bomb wielding fairies killed in the process before his training was over.

3. Will probably go over the Wall like an idiot in season 7, thus breaking the magic barrier that was preventing the White Walkers from going to Westeros, and in doing so, will kill a good portion of people.

"Good portion" more like almost all of them. But yep that will happen. Because Bran is a dumbass. Only character I really dislike right now outside of the Sand Snakes. Especially that he showed no remorse for fucking up in the tree. Gets carried for years, makes no effort to get better himself, expresses no gratitude towards Meera, doesn't give a shit about anything in the real world, acts like a drug addict with his visions and kills a lot of people in the process with dumb moves also not giving a shit. Bran is the worst and I really hope he does something very honourable some day to redeem himself, aka fight the NK or something.

 

[Bisnic]

"Good portion" more like almost all of them. But yep that will happen. Because Bran is a dumbass. Only character I really dislike right now outside of the Sand Snakes. Especially that he showed no remorse for fucking up in the tree. Gets carried for years, makes no effort to get better himself, expresses no gratitude towards Meera, doesn't give a shit about anything in the real world, acts like a drug addict with his visions and kills a lot of people in the process with dumb moves also not giving a shit. Bran is the worst and I really hope he does something very honourable some day to redeem himself, aka fight the NK or something.

It's too early to say just how far the White Walkers will go before someone stop them(presumably Dany and her dragons + some Valaryan swords). I doubt they'll go as far as Dorne or King Landing, but who knows.

It's funny though... if Bran obeyed her mother in the first episode, most probably that the Stark family would still be intact. I mean... Littlefinger's plan with the previous Hand of King's death and Lysa's letter wouldn't have go so well if the Lannisters & Starks didn't turn against each other due to this. Everything that happened in this franchise south of the Wall was due to him disobeying his mother.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

Breaking the war plan?
That's on Davos and Tormund.

WTF were they supposed to do?
Their commander was about to be run over by enemy cavalry.
Tormund was like no dont do it when Jon was about to charge. He knew what Ramsey was about to pull of.
It was either that or being forced to surrender since their commander was gone.

Spoiler

Davos shouldn't have charged the archers though. That's the reason they were surrounded in the end.

 

[bidguy]

so arya killed some poor little girl for her face right ? or did she just steal it from the faceless men ?

 

[Moff]

so arya killed some poor little girl for her face right ? or did she just steal it from the faceless men ?

we don't know, maybe she took some faces with her, it would not match her to simply kill someone for a face

maybe it was a really mean girl, though

 

[zma1013]

Funny how the only Starks left alive are the bastard vowbreaker, the cannibal murderer, and Miss Ramsay. More proof that the true Stark way is for losers.

Jon isn't a vowbreaker, he died, technically removing him from his contractual obligations.

 

[dragonbane]

That wasn't enjoying revenge. Whether they meant it to or not her reaction came off like a serial killer. I am one of those weirdos who researches and follows true crime and while Joffrey and Ramsay were great fictional characters they came off as fictional, whereas Arya though probably not meant by D&D looked like she was expressing the sort of emotion serial killers describe at the moment of the kill. It just crossed the fantasy violence line into realistic in some ways is all, and the reaction of a normal person to that sort of behavior is revulsion leading to a lot of people feeling off about that scene, both regular viewers and people with a voice.

I bet that's also one of the reasons such an important plot point was glossed over in most recaps and reviews, it was a really uncomfortable scene, and it came from one of the shows "Hereos".

Yes Arya is clearly a bit fucked up right now. She always had signs though. She stabbed a random ass Frey soldier like 10 times before stopping herself. Then in the bar she pierced a defenceless man on the ground through the throat and watched him bleed out making almost the same face as when killing Frey. Then after riding off she smiles having just killed her second and third grown man. She also very much enjoyed killing Trant.

Arya enjoys murdering people in brutal fashion and watching them bleed out. Always has. I guess the pie thing is new

 

[duckroll]

Jon isn't a vowbreaker, he died, technically removing him from his contractual obligations.

What about his wildling whore wife?

 

[Nameless]

With Frey Arya didn't even use the pointy end. She's learning.

 

[Bisnic]

What about his wildling whore wife?

Wasn't a wife. Isn't his vow only to not marry & have children? Still ok!

 

[dragonbane]

People really need to rewatch some Arya scenes and refresh their memories:

https://youtu.be/rRAcOTJIKvA?t=1m11s
https://youtu.be/jwQAZ7_SjgU?t=8m21s
https://youtu.be/Q4O9IWLoABU?t=1m41s

This girl loves killing people since a while. So far only bad and half bad people at least. I guess she is just getting more creative over time

 

[Jinjo]

I see some mad disrespect being leveled at the Sweet Voice of Westeros, the Man of Melody, the Most Beautiful Man in the World, the People's Prince. No one else in Westeros has to share their child's surname with that of the child's mother. No one else has people reminding him, "but your child is also part ____." Are the Stark kids constantly counted as both Stark and Tully? Nope. Is Sweet Robin referred to as the Tit Sucker of Houses Aryn and Tully? Nope. And what about the late Baratheon brothers, is their mother's family alluded to by anyone when their names are mentioned? Nope.

Rheagar Targaryen has probably wept rivers up in heaven watching his little boy mistreated at the hands of that hateful woman named Cat. Where was Jon when the family gathered to eat? Right over there in the corner where bastards belonged. How was he treated when he wanted to say goodbye to Bran? "I wish it was you in his spot!" Disgusting. And honourable Ned Stark allowed his wife to mistreat an innocent child who grow up believing that he indeed was the walking, talking, breathing symbol of his "father's" shame. Just because Jon has a heart of gold, and is forgiving, doesn't mean it's forgotten. He's the Harry potter of the North.

To be fair, Jon is also technically a Targaryen bastard, since Elia Martell was Rheagar's wife at the time. So even if the whole country was not in a rebel uprising at the time at the hands of Robert Baratheon and everything was nice and peaceful, Jon would still have sat in the corner where the bastards belonged.

 

[duckroll]

Wasn't a wife. Isn't his vow only to not marry & have children? Still ok!

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

You win... this round.

 

[bidguy]

People really need to rewatch some Arya scenes and refresh their memories:

https://youtu.be/rRAcOTJIKvA?t=1m11s
https://youtu.be/jwQAZ7_SjgU?t=8m21s
https://youtu.be/Q4O9IWLoABU?t=1m41s

This girl loves killing people since a while. So far only bad and half bad people at least. I guess she is just getting more creative over time

didnt all this start after all the shit that has happened to her family ? she had her friend butchered for no damn reason,her father was beheaded in front of her, her brothers body was paraded around with a wolf head and her mom had her throat slit (allthough she didnt see this)

i mean all this had to have an effect on a child. not surprised at all how she turned out

 

[dragonbane]

didnt all this start after all the shit that has happened to her family ? she had her friend butchered for no damn reason,her father was beheaded in front of her, her brothers body was paraded around with a wolf head and her mom had her throat slit (allthough she didnt see this)

i mean all this had to have an effect on a child. not surprised at all how she turned out

Yup. It isn't exactly a recent development. Darth Arya was always going to happen

 

[Croyles]

It's too early to say just how far the White Walkers will go before someone stop them(presumably Dany and her dragons + some Valaryan swords). I doubt they'll go as far as Dorne or King Landing, but who knows.

It's funny though... if Bran obeyed her mother in the first episode, most probably that the Stark family would still be intact. I mean... Littlefinger's plan with the previous Hand of King's death and Lysa's letter wouldn't have go so well if the Lannisters & Starks didn't turn against each other due to this. Everything that happened in this franchise south of the Wall was due to him disobeying his mother.

Lol what? It's a bit hard as a kid to know that climbing a wall will inadvertently start a war... Meanwhile Cat takes an opposing house nobleman hostage on a hunch.

You might as well say everything in this franchise started because Westeros was invaded by Aegon.

 

[Matty77]

Arya enjoys murdering people in brutal fashion and watching them bleed out. Always has. I guess the pie thing is new

Hey she needs some kind of trademark, punishment fits the crime. If she was a real modern day killer she would be writing narcissistic letters to the newspaper about Poetic Justice.

 

[Vagabundo]

Lol what? It's a bit hard as a kid to know that climbing a wall will inadvertently start a war... Meanwhile Cat takes an opposing house nobleman hostage on a hunch.

You might as well say everything in this franchise started because Westeros was invaded by Aegon.

To be fair the whole thing started with Cersei and Jaime trying to keep their affair and children's parentage secret. Killing Jon Arryn and pushing Bran out of a window, both those actions set everything in motion.

 

[water_wendi]

To be fair the whole thing started with Cersei and Jaime trying to keep their affair and children's parentage secret. Killing Jon Arryn and pushing Bran out of a window, both those actions set everything in motion.

i thought Littlefinger and Crazy Vale Lady killed Jon Arryn?

 

[Matty77]

To be fair the whole thing started with Cersei and Jaime trying to keep their affair and children's parentage secret. Killing Jon Arryn and pushing Bran out of a window, both those actions set everything in motion.

Yes, but we must remember only pushing bran out the window was explicitly them everything else was either manipulated by or outright initiated by LF. He even used the bran thing and the assassins knife to start a lot of the Fuckery that led to the war, and Caitlyn's kidnapping of Tyrion.

Granted that was awesome in the long run for hooking him and Bronn up.

 

[Vagabundo]

i thought Littlefinger and Crazy Vale Lady killed Jon Arryn?

Looking at the Wiki you're right; LF framed the Lannisters. Must have missed that.

Talking of LF he was looking especially dangerous at the meeting when Jon was "crowned" King o' the North. You could see the fear on Sansa's face.

 

[weremichael]

Funny how the only Starks left alive are the bastard vowbreaker, the cannibal murderer, and Miss Ramsay. More proof that the true Stark way is for losers.

You forgot the warging kid in the tree.

 

[Brashnir]

Gold Cloaks missing has to be because LF wasn't around any longer.

Lannister forces, stop ruining my show with your plot holes dammit, lol.

Littlefinger paid the Gold Cloaks because he was the Master of Coin - He wasn't paying them out of his own pocket. The missing Gold Cloaks probably has more to do with the crown being bankrupt than the loss of Littlefinger.

I mean, I guess you could say that Littlefinger intentionally bankrupted them by borrowing from the Iron Bank, so in that sense he is responsible for it to some degree, but most of the borrowing was done because Robert refused to run within a reasonable budget.

 

[boxter432]

You forgot the warging kid in the tree.

and the half human half ice zombie uncle

 

[Volimar]

 

[weremichael]

and the half human half ice zombie uncle

The Starks aren't doing so hot.

 

[MK_768]

Looking at the Wiki you're right; LF framed the Lannisters. Must have missed that.

Talking of LF he was looking especially dangerous at the meeting when Jon was "crowned" King o' the North. You could see the fear on Sansa's face.

That's cause he knows about Jon.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Littlefinger paid the Gold Cloaks because he was the Master of Coin - He wasn't paying them out of his own pocket. The missing Gold Cloaks probably has more to do with the crown being bankrupt than the loss of Littlefinger.

I mean, I guess you could say that Littlefinger intentionally bankrupted them by borrowing from the Iron Bank, so in that sense he is responsible for it to some degree, but most of the borrowing was done because Robert refused to run within a reasonable budget.

Yup, you're right. And here is the explanation as to why the Gold Cloaks were missing, porbably. Mace Tyrell was made Master of Coin in S5.

In a Small Council meeting Mace reveals that the Iron Bank has called in one tenth of the Crown's debts. When asked by Cersei, Mace admits that the Crown can not pay back more than half of the demanded sum. When Mace offers that House Tyrell could lend the needed money to the Iron Throne, Cersei politely refuses, stating that the Tyrells have already given too much. She then tasks Mace with personally travelling to Braavos to negotiate better terms with the Iron Bank.