But that only makes sense if Ned's father was an only child as well. There's gotta be some cousins around even if they may be 2nd cousins and the like. I can't think of another major family as abundant as the Lannisters.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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But that only makes sense if Ned's father was an only child as well. There's gotta be some cousins around even if they may be 2nd cousins and the like. I can't think of another major family as abundant as the Lannisters.
Ned's not listed as having any uncles/aunts on the viewers guide and none of his brothers or his sister had any children for one reason or another.
The Silver
Member
Tywin ordered his family to breed like rabbits, all according to plan
Plus it's the North. The Winters are far harsher and the Starks aren't exactly as rich as the Lannisters. Combine that with Starks joining the Night's Watch and you aren't exactly going to be looking at a big family.
ComputerBlue
Member
Speaking of which, we never heard anything after Benjen went missing did we? Other than finding the two dead bodies of the rangers he went out with. I wonder if he'll come back later on as a white walker.
Hypnopompy
Member
Do the karstarks count as starks, or do they just happen to have stark in their name?
Benny Stark has to be out there in some form. I wonder who's going to be the one to come across him?
My money is on Bran. That storyline has to be going somewhere.
Something has been niggling at me all week. I think I'm pissed at the mind rape of Hodor. I know Bran was in a tough spot and all, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Hodor...
My money is on Bran. That storyline has to be going somewhere.
Something has been niggling at me all week. I think I'm pissed at the mind rape of Hodor. I know Bran was in a tough spot and all, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Hodor...
but they really did forget. After the Red Wedding I was hoping for some crazed suicide attacks on Lannister strongholds this season, but everyone just went home.
ProfessorX
Unconfirmed Member
No one ever said the northerners were into suicide attacks, but everyone knows the northerners will rally around the Starks if it is a reasonable possibility to consider.
Braag
Member
I see Jon Snow, Dany, Bran and Arya having some sort of plot armor currently. But I'm pretty certain at least 3 of them (or all of them, wouldn't surprise me) will drop dead eventually before the series ends.
ProfessorX
Unconfirmed Member
Well it would seem to serve no purpose for them to die currently yes. And it would leave some huge distasteful feeling in your mouth because they all have very interesting ongoing unresolved plot lines. If they died it would have to be more than spontaneous and have some deeper meaning to the story.
Bran's plot armour is covering Hodor too. Dude needs legs. I never really felt the big guy was in danger in the latest episode because of that. I thought the siblings would go though.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
' A song of ice and fire'
I'd be surprised if Dany and Snow didn't end up getting married and ruling over Westeros by the end of it.
Ah yes, Arya too.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying I want them to drop dead (maybe Dany) but yeh I don't really feel they are in danger ever. Well, I guess we know shit always goes down in episode 9 so something could happen.
That's a good point actually.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I agree that only those three are covered in plot armor but I don't see why that's annoying. All 3 could die by the end of the series.
soundscream
Member
Cornballer
Member
New episode tonight:
I wonder if anyone will actually 'win' the Game of Thrones. The flash forward (or whatever it was) of the throne room looked pretty bleak.
There's no win in the game of thrones, only a temporary lead.
Nameless
Member
Maybe you guys have a different definition of plot armor than I do. I see it as that thing which allows central characters to continually survive dire scenarios by implausible or ridiculous means. Just because characters with a palpable importance to the story overcome trials & tribulations doesn't necessarily mean they're wrapped in plot armor, or else you could accuse pretty much any work of fiction of using it.
There are a couple of instances with Jon, maybe, but I really don't see where Arya or Daeny have been saved by plot arnor. As a Walking Dead viewer the past 4 years I'm pretty familiar with the stuff.
There are a couple of instances with Jon, maybe, but I really don't see where Arya or Daeny have been saved by plot arnor. As a Walking Dead viewer the past 4 years I'm pretty familiar with the stuff.
Yeah there hasn't been any eye roll inducing plot armor. Nothing like the main characters being blown into a million pieces and then being reassebled by a magic machine... let's see who got that reference. lol
I mean its only sensible that a story maintain some sort of prolonged journey with at least one character in order to maintain interest. Otherwise it'll just be a senseless blood bath with no progression.
I mean its only sensible that a story maintain some sort of prolonged journey with at least one character in order to maintain interest. Otherwise it'll just be a senseless blood bath with no progression.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
The plot armor stuff seems like nonsense considering everyone thought Rob and his mum had it.
Man I'm still so salty over that. Robb's death is all on Catelyn Stark's stupidity. Everything from her capture of Tyrion, to her release of Jamie, cumulated into Robb losing his life. If she never captured Tyrion, Jamie wouldn't have accosted Ned, and Tywin wouldn't have had to declare war on the Starks to free his son. If she didn't let Jamie go, that Karstark dude wouldn't have had to go and kill those Lannister boys. Which in turn means he would have kept his head, and Robb wouldn't have had to go begging the Freys for troops.
Plus, if she were a better negotiator she wouldn't have had to trade her son's hand to cross that bridge. Her dad was the fucking Lord of Riverrun. The Freys were his banner man. Tell them to open up the gates or else. Stupid Catelyn. She is hands down the worst character to have appeared on this show.
I think Benjen is a White Walker and will act as the show's inroad to that whole angle once they become a bigger part of the plot.
Forgot to comment on this last week (mainly because I avoid this thread like the plague for the inevitable book reader spoilers :lol) but I was really surprised by the revelation that Littlefinger assassinated Jon Arryn. S1 is really fuzzy to me and I remember that Arryn's death was the first domino to fall in basically everything terrible that has happened over the show, but why would Littlefinger have wanted Arryn dead? I can barely remember what his relationship with Ned was like (just the knife to the throat betrayal scene) but was there something to be gained from having Ned on as Robert's Hand?
Forgot to comment on this last week (mainly because I avoid this thread like the plague for the inevitable book reader spoilers :lol) but I was really surprised by the revelation that Littlefinger assassinated Jon Arryn. S1 is really fuzzy to me and I remember that Arryn's death was the first domino to fall in basically everything terrible that has happened over the show, but why would Littlefinger have wanted Arryn dead? I can barely remember what his relationship with Ned was like (just the knife to the throat betrayal scene) but was there something to be gained from having Ned on as Robert's Hand?
It was divide and conquer. Pit the Lannisters against the Starks, weaking everyone in the process.
Braag
Member
Holly shit you're right. Cat sux. Rob should have preemptively arrested her as soon as Bran got pushed. lol
She made sure Jon was a proper outcast, she doubted Rob's plan, and tottaly goofed with Tyrion. Fail hyper combo!
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Let's not forget the saying: "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell."
LOL, I finished Season 2 last night. So much foreshadowing between this two that season. I didn't even notice it.Well, that's true.
Guys, what's the significance with the number 13 in GoT? The Thirteen in Quarth (who were all killed) and the thirteen white walkers.
Yes but even though she fucked over Jon, he's still alive. Her fuck ups may wind up saving everyone, I doubt the North alone could stand against the white walkers.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Snow or Danny on the throne at the end would the most boring outcome. I'll take anything from GRRM, but those are my least favorite choices. 
I really like the characters mind you, just not for that ending.
I really like the characters mind you, just not for that ending.
Look at those two love birds.
A crow and a dragon ? Nah.
You know nothing about where are my dragons, Jon Snow ?
Braag
Member
Snow or Danny on the throne at the end would the most boring outcome. I'll take anything from GRRM, but those are my least favorite choices.
I really like the characters mind you, just not for that ending.
I'd love to see littlefinger get the throne
After so much scheming he deserves it. At least for a moment.Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Talking about dead chars, I just saw this over Imgur.
Amazing.
Amazing.
ComputerBlue
Member
I'd love to see littlefinger get the throne
I don't think he wants the throne, he's too smart and knows the risks outweigh the benefits. Now, having someone of his choosing sitting on the throne while Littlefinger calls the shots and rules Westeros from behind curtains, that I can see happening.
^^^ That cosplay is pretty awesome.
Edit: We better see some Varys tonight.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Someone needs to do a post-Purple Wedding Joffrey cosplay. Complete with googly eye.
He says he wants "everything". I think that includes the Iron Throne.
I was thinking that maybe he's the Walker we've seen since S2 finale.
I know it looks "older" than Benjen but hey, zombie transformation.
Would be a cool twist.
TheContact
Member
Hope to see more white walkers tonight
ComputerBlue
Member
He doesn't need to sit on it to have it.
Warning: Wall of text incoming. It's not my fault this show is so dense.
Wait what? Cat had her share of mistakes but lets look at it this way.
1) She didn't just wisk away tyrion, she's had evidence (the dagger, the hair in winter fell, and Lysa's letter). She took him to the veil where she thought he would receive an honest trial because she believed in her sister (and she didn't have any reason not to at that point). Yet regardless of her actions, this movement did NOT start the war.
2) The release of Jamie was also influenced by a couple of factors, not intuition alone. The first is that the Lannisters would have released both her girls if she gave Jamie back (As LF, again, has told her). And when she returned to camp, everyone was so fired up that she knew he would not survive another day as a hostage for Stark. What she did here was a mistake, as I'm sure there would have been better alternatives. But one thing's for sure, it was definitely better than doing nothing.
3) Walder Frey is an ass, and she was wise enough to know it, and she knew any threats would have ended up badly for her son. The freys are not to be trusted, and marriage is a useful tactic in the westeros. She knew they had to move as fast as possible and a marriage to seal the deal seemed like a good plan.
The main mistake she made was trusting Little Finger, and even then her trust in him was justified considering that he once risked his life just to have her. Let's also not forget that she would have been successful in allying with Renly, if it wasn't for Stannis' intervention.
But lets look at the other character who shares most of the responsibility, Robb.
1) Trusting Baylon Greyjoy was an absolue dumb move on his part. He knows what they did, and he was advised against it because they will not forget what Ned did to his house. Yet he still sent Baylon's son (who hasn't seen him in god knows how long) and expect an immediate alliance? WTF?!
2) Regarding the marriage arrangement, it doesn't matter what went down between Cat and frey, Robb consented immediately which made him just as responsible as her in this arrangement. Yet even though he knew his vows he willingly broke it despite cat's advise (again).
3) The Karstark fallout cannot only be blamed on Jamie's release. There are other, more important things to consider. Karstark himself said the war is lost because of Robb's marriage to Talissa, and the fact that lannister children were held hostage in the first place was a mistake that was made due to Robb- Edmure miscommunication. This was not Cat's fault. And when Karstark killed the children he still had a choice. Cat advised him (yet again) to not take his head because they knew the consequences of that. But he did it anyway. Robb losing half his army in the middle of the war was Robb's responsibility completely.
4) With half his army gone. What does Robb do? Go to the frey's, the family he knows cannot be trust AND a family he knows that he has broken a vow to. Cat advised him not to go with this plan but he still went with it anyway (notice a pattern here?).
This is what resulted the red wedding, a betrayal from both banner men that Cat accurately predicted for at least one them. In retrospect, it makes her cautious negotiation tactics wise, not weak.
So yeah, she made some mistakes, but Robb was far more responsible for the red wedding fallout.
Wait what? Cat had her share of mistakes but lets look at it this way.
1) She didn't just wisk away tyrion, she's had evidence (the dagger, the hair in winter fell, and Lysa's letter). She took him to the veil where she thought he would receive an honest trial because she believed in her sister (and she didn't have any reason not to at that point). Yet regardless of her actions, this movement did NOT start the war.
2) The release of Jamie was also influenced by a couple of factors, not intuition alone. The first is that the Lannisters would have released both her girls if she gave Jamie back (As LF, again, has told her). And when she returned to camp, everyone was so fired up that she knew he would not survive another day as a hostage for Stark. What she did here was a mistake, as I'm sure there would have been better alternatives. But one thing's for sure, it was definitely better than doing nothing.
3) Walder Frey is an ass, and she was wise enough to know it, and she knew any threats would have ended up badly for her son. The freys are not to be trusted, and marriage is a useful tactic in the westeros. She knew they had to move as fast as possible and a marriage to seal the deal seemed like a good plan.
The main mistake she made was trusting Little Finger, and even then her trust in him was justified considering that he once risked his life just to have her. Let's also not forget that she would have been successful in allying with Renly, if it wasn't for Stannis' intervention.
But lets look at the other character who shares most of the responsibility, Robb.
1) Trusting Baylon Greyjoy was an absolue dumb move on his part. He knows what they did, and he was advised against it because they will not forget what Ned did to his house. Yet he still sent Baylon's son (who hasn't seen him in god knows how long) and expect an immediate alliance? WTF?!
2) Regarding the marriage arrangement, it doesn't matter what went down between Cat and frey, Robb consented immediately which made him just as responsible as her in this arrangement. Yet even though he knew his vows he willingly broke it despite cat's advise (again).
3) The Karstark fallout cannot only be blamed on Jamie's release. There are other, more important things to consider. Karstark himself said the war is lost because of Robb's marriage to Talissa, and the fact that lannister children were held hostage in the first place was a mistake that was made due to Robb- Edmure miscommunication. This was not Cat's fault. And when Karstark killed the children he still had a choice. Cat advised him (yet again) to not take his head because they knew the consequences of that. But he did it anyway. Robb losing half his army in the middle of the war was Robb's responsibility completely.
4) With half his army gone. What does Robb do? Go to the frey's, the family he knows cannot be trust AND a family he knows that he has broken a vow to. Cat advised him not to go with this plan but he still went with it anyway (notice a pattern here?).
This is what resulted the red wedding, a betrayal from both banner men that Cat accurately predicted for at least one them. In retrospect, it makes her cautious negotiation tactics wise, not weak.
So yeah, she made some mistakes, but Robb was far more responsible for the red wedding fallout.
Why didn't Arya kill Tywin, Joffrey and Cersi with her three wishes? Pretty dumb if you ask me. Even Gendry called her out on it.
Maybe the Starks are just dumb. It's possible.
RustyNails
Member
Yeah the biggest mistake was offing Papa Karstark's head and it's all on Robb. Cateleyn made absolutely unforgivable mistakes, but the whole thing was still salvageable. Even the marriage to Talisa. Until Rob decided that Karstark must die immediately. Just...wait it out dude. Finish the war, then lob off his head. No one needs to know.
Edit: Anyone know where Catelyn's uncle is? He escaped the Red Wedding because he needed a piss, but he's nowhere to be seen.
Edit: Anyone know where Catelyn's uncle is? He escaped the Red Wedding because he needed a piss, but he's nowhere to be seen.
ProfessorX
Unconfirmed Member
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