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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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Nerokis

Member
Well he called it, by not burning the scar only for fear of flames.
Just exactly like Oberyn.

Refusing to cure a wound with maximum efficiency, or neglecting to kill an opponent with maximum efficiency, as a result of deep emotional entanglements does not constitute asking for or deserving death. People typically live regardless of the inevitable mistakes they make, and in most cases where those mistakes result in something terrible, the existence of fault on the part of the "victim" does not cancel out the terribleness.

The Hound could live, and the wound might turn out to be an insignificant footnote. It could also become infected and result in his death, but that happening would not mean the Hound retroactively actually asked for death when he refused to be burned. You could seriously use this "well, he was asking for it!" logic to diminish the tragedy of virtually every significant death on the show, but I'd say that's an overly simplistic way of looking at things.
 

Carl

Member
For once i actually saw the ending coming a mile off. They couldn't have Tyrion's champion win the match. When the Mountain laid there i was yelling at the screen to just stab him in the face.

Then heads got crushed >.<
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
For once i actually saw the ending coming a mile off. They couldn't have Tyrion's champion win the match. When the Mountain laid there i was yelling at the screen to just stab him in the face.

Then heads got crushed >.<

yeah, usually this series is pretty good with not choreographing the deaths but it definitely happened this time.
 
Man, this episode almost hits as hard as the Red Wedding. I'm still thinking about it.

The Red Wedding (to me) as out of the blue. Like a complete shock to my system.

This one I knew that him losing was an option. So you wouldn't be too shock if he died...obviously one had to win, and one had to die. But when he basically won... you felt at ease. Like you just dodged a bullet, then it just slaps you right in the fucking face.
 

J2d

Member
Guys, I still can't get over his death, his image is burned in my brain.
It was so horrifying that I still haven't given much thought to Tyrion's fate. I have a hard time believing that this is the end of him but on the other hand I don't know how he is supposed to get out of it. Come on Jaime, think!

Can't wait for the scene where Roose Bolton get's the word that a 100k wildlings have breached the wall btw, there better not be any sort of heroic hold in the next episode.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
I can see the wound end up going real bad and the Hound asks Arya to put him out his misery. It would be a fitting end to their relationship.

that's how i would see it going to. but martin likes to surprise so we shall see.

It was so horrifying that I still haven't given much thought to Tyrion's fate. I have a hard time believing that this is the end of him but on the other hand I don't know how he is supposed to get out of it. Come on Jaime, think!

Can't wait for the scene where Roose Bolton get's the word that a 100k wildlings have breached the wall btw, there better not be any sort of heroic hold in the next episode.

your avatar...

it's coming back to me

DDDDDDDDDD:
 

Philippo

Member
Refusing to cure a wound with maximum efficiency, or neglecting to kill an opponent with maximum efficiency, as a result of deep emotional entanglements does not constitute asking for or deserving death. People typically live regardless of the inevitable mistakes they make, and in most cases where those mistakes result in something terrible, the existence of fault on the part of the "victim" does not cancel out the terribleness.

The Hound could live, and the wound might turn out to be an insignificant footnote. It could also become infected and result in his death, but that happening would not mean the Hound retroactively actually asked for death when he refused to be burned. You could seriously use this "well, he was asking for it!" logic to diminish the tragedy of virtually every significant death on the show, but I'd say that's an overly simplistic way of looking at things.

Of course they didn't asked nor deserved it and i didn't want to underplay the importance of the characters emotions, but they hightened the chances for what happens next and were careless in world that punishes who act like this. Paying attention to whatever your next move will be and putting your brain ahead of your heart it's kinda one of the main points of the show.

I mean those "omg this is so unfair? why the good characters die?" are pointless.
Sad death? Surely. Unfair? Definitely no.
 

TronLight

Everybody is Mikkelsexual
Of course they didn't asked nor deserved it and i didn't want to underplay the importance of the characters emotions, but they hightened the chances for what happens next and were careless in world that punishes who act like this. Paying attention to whatever your next move will be and putting your brain ahead of your heart it's kinda one of the main points of the show.

I mean those "omg this is so unfair? why the good characters die?" are pointless.
Sad death? Surely. Unfair? Definitely no.

I agree, Oberyn killed himself when he got too cocky. The guy isn't called The Mountain just because, steer clear of his fucking hands! Just like he was doing fine during the fight, but then the Mountain fell, he got cocky, lowered his guard, and goodbye. He could have won, even if he had kept teasing The Mountain, had he been a few inches away from him.
 

Zeliard

Member
Refusing to cure a wound with maximum efficiency, or neglecting to kill an opponent with maximum efficiency, as a result of deep emotional entanglements does not constitute asking for or deserving death. People typically live regardless of the inevitable mistakes they make, and in most cases where those mistakes result in something terrible, the existence of fault on the part of the "victim" does not cancel out the terribleness.

The Hound could live, and the wound might turn out to be an insignificant footnote. It could also become infected and result in his death, but that happening would not mean the Hound retroactively actually asked for death when he refused to be burned. You could seriously use this "well, he was asking for it!" logic to diminish the tragedy of virtually every significant death on the show, but I'd say that's an overly simplistic way of looking at things.

Pride goes before a fall.
 
Of all the threads I am subbed to, how could I have missed this one?!

Anyway, Sunday's episode was a huge punch in the gut... Seeing Oberyn die was awful. His arc was one of my favorites, and he could of been a huge game changer. Guess that's what happens when you get too comfortable liking a character. Whenever I'm starting to like someone, they die. I just won't learn.
 

televator

Member
Man, this episode almost hits as hard as the Red Wedding. I'm still thinking about it.

Somehow I didn't have much of a reaction compared to the wedding. Strangely enough... i grimaced more when the mountain punched his teeth out. Cuz even if he somehow survived, ain't a dentist in Westeros who can fix that... and handsome Oberyn ain't so pretty no more.

Talisa getting stabbed must have desinsitised me big time. That shit had me like "'SCUSE ME SIR THERES A BABY IN THERE PLS STAHP." :'(
 

NEO0MJ

Member
At this point I'm just waiting for the episode where the dragons turn on Daenarys because it's revealed they weren't her dragons. They were Tywin's and they're just making sure she doesn't get close to Westeros.

I just had to burst laughing at this thought.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Pride goes before a fall.

sure but does every death in this series have to be foreshadowed by the soon to be vanquished exhibiting their personal character flaw?

a random death would be nice.

and oberyns speech wasn't even unwise. i mean he had it on lock, he didnt know he was in a story being written by a dude that likes dramatic suspense. i would still do the same if i were in his position in real life. sometimes show boating goes wrong in real life but 99% of the time it works.
 
Can't wait for the scene where Roose Bolton get's the word that a 100k wildlings have breached the wall btw, there better not be any sort of heroic hold in the next episode.


well (preview spoiler)
it shows a giant smashing into the big gate (to Castle Black?), so yeah... I doubt they are holding shit if that force gets through.
 

Juz

Member
Oberyn.. way to fuck it up.

Loved the Sansa scenes and Arya's laugh.

Next week is gonna be interesting. It is episode 9 after all.
 

ohNOitsRO

Member
I feel like Roose is so caught up with the North and the strategy of the laylands and his plans for dominance, that the Whitewalkers are just gonna stroll from the REAL North and lay waste to that family lineage
 

Zeliard

Member
sure but does every death in this series have to be foreshadowed by the soon to be vanquished exhibiting their personal character flaw?

a random death would be nice.

and oberyns speech wasn't even unwise. i mean he had it on lock, he didnt know he was in a story being written by a dude that likes dramatic suspense. i would still do the same if i were in his position in real life. sometimes show boating goes wrong in real life but 99% of the time it works.

Look at the way The Mountain was built up as a character - nigh-unstoppable, terrifying, a force of nature. Oberyn was drunk on both wine and rage, and instead of making the smart decision to finish the brute off when he had the chance after he had fought him brilliantly, his emotions overcame him and he paid for it.

Does that make his death any less tragic? No. Does it mean the character "deserved" to die from a moral standpoint? Of course not. But it does mean there's a logical underlying flow to the way it inevitably went. If Oberyn rams his spear into The Mountain's neck at the end of the fight, then he's still alive. Instead he underestimated The Mountain's fortitude and was then grabbed by the much larger man and brutalized. There's a clear cause-and-effect there.
 
Jon Snow didn't do a lot this season. He's getting kinda boring. I'd be alright with his death if it meant Tyrion lived.

He's always been boring to me, and he will absolutely, positively never die. People say "what, plot armor in GoT?" but it's true - certain characters have little to no chance of dying, Jon, Bran, and Daenerys first and foremost in my opinion. Incidentally my 3 least favorite characters.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Look at the way The Mountain was built up as a character - nigh-unstoppable, terrifying, a force of nature. Oberyn was drunk on both wine and rage, and instead of making the smart decision to finish the brute off when he had the chance after he had fought him brilliantly, his emotions overcame him and he paid for it.

Does that make his death any less tragic? No. Does it mean the character "deserved" to die from a moral standpoint? Of course not. But it does mean there's a logical underlying flow to the way it inevitably went. If Oberyn rams his spear into The Mountain's neck at the end of the fight, then he's still alive. Instead he underestimated The Mountain's fortitude and was then grabbed by the much larger man and brutalized. There's a clear cause-and-effect there.

i see your point but id argue that the show boating wasn't stupid, but walking around him at arms length was.
 

Vagabundo

Member
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU GRRM.

I really liked him. Argghhhh.

My wife and I were screaming at the TV during the head crushing. Fucking shocking.

And damn, Tyrion is for the chop. Potentially more screaming next week.

The Hound and Aryia Show continues to deliver.

And damn at the new player in the Game of Thrones; Sansa Stark finally steps up to the plate.
 

Van Owen

Banned
Oberyn was drunk on both wine and rage, and instead of making the smart decision to finish the brute off when he had the chance after he had fought him brilliantly, his emotions overcame him and he paid for it.

It wasn't really emotion. He was trying to get a confession to pin the murder of a former princess of Westeros and her children on Tywin before killing the Mountain. He just was too close to The Mountain while he was doing it. And he was a bit too cocky.
 
I'm noticing a pattern. Deaths only occur unexpectedly. The fact we know Tyrion is sentenced to death I'm hoping means something will stop this. Is there anything which breaks my theory?

I'm expecting Jamie to tell Tywin he's going to the wall or something like that unless he saves Tyrion.

If Tyrion dies I will be gutted.

Seriously hyped for the final episodes :)
 

Zeliard

Member
It wasn't really emotion. He was trying to get a confession to pin the murder of a former princess of Westeros and her children on Tywin before killing the Mountain. He just was too close to The Mountain while he was doing it. And he was a bit too cocky.

Certainly it was emotion. Oberyn wanted the confession, but the unmitigated rage he was feeling (rage being a fairly strong emotion) clouded his thinking and he paid the price for it.
 

Opiate

Member
Also I feel dumb asking but, what was the point of the beetle story? The symbolism was lost on me.

Note also Jaime's evaluation of the story: "I don't know."Synospsis: the world is a violent and cruel place, and there is no meaning to it or justification for it.

Just replace beetles with people. People are killed by the thousands for no scrutible reason, and if a god or planner is behind it, he is surely stupid, because it seems to follow no fair or clear pattern. It is the consistent, violent destruction of thousands of human lives.

Why are they killed? I don't know.
 
Note also Jaime's evaluation of the story: "I don't know."Synospsis: the world is a violent and cruel place, and there is no meaning to it or justification for it.

Just replace beetles with people. People are killed by the thousands for no scrutible reason, and if a god or planner is behind it, he is surely stupid, because it seems to follow no fair or clear pattern. It is the consistent, violent destruction of thousands of human lives.

Why are they killed? I don't know.

My friends synopsis was the beetles were GoT characters and the cousin was Martin.

It got a laugh out of me anyway.
 

Nerokis

Member
Of course they didn't asked nor deserved it and i didn't want to underplay the importance of the characters emotions, but they hightened the chances for what happens next and were careless in world that punishes who act like this. Paying attention to whatever your next move will be and putting your brain ahead of your heart it's kinda one of the main points of the show.

I mean those "omg this is so unfair? why the good characters die?" are pointless.
Sad death? Surely. Unfair? Definitely no.

I don't disagree. Baggage lost to no baggage, and Oberyn's scattered focus (his revenge was bigger than the Mountain alone, he was emotional, etc.) resulted in his death. But at the same time, that he had a cause at all, and that it happened to be an understandable and more or less honorable one, makes his brutal death at the hands of the Mountain all the more tragic. Life isn't known for being all that fair in the first place, but in this case, I don't think fairness is the point. This is just a cruel, merciless, unjust conclusion to his story - "unjust" not necessarily meaning "unfair."
 

bengraven

Member
It shouldn't hurt to post this here, due to no spoilers and no paper-bound-story thing related, but some people might miss this part:

E2AucVp.jpg

Yeah, the rich twit who was killed in the first episode is that guy's son.
 
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