• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

Status
Not open for further replies.

E92 M3

Member
Man, I knew he was a deadman when the Mountain was just laying there and he was gloating/angry -- such a standard TV trope. Couldn't sleep for after that fight. Really liked the character A LOT.
 

televator

Member
I think GRRM will tease us with Tyrion. He could die.... or his brother might help him escape... oh would you look at that! He's almost free and -- SMATH DA IMP. SMATH HIM. Kug kug! Turns out Cersei paid Bronn to hunt down and kill Tyrion.
 

NoTacos

Member
Just saw the episode... holy shit that was gruesome. Thought Oberin had it won, but also had a bad feeling. Fuck fuck fuck I hope Tyrion gets out of this.

Probably a first to die thing, doesn't look like the mountain was going to die anyway. Dude is huge it'd take a ton of hits to kill him.
He took a spear straight through the gut and into the ground. Doesn't take a tons of hits to kill him, just precise tactical ones.

What makes it worse is Oberyn opened that door, but failed to walk through. He knew the mountain was nearly done though because he remarked "no, no you can't die yet!" Which makes me think he knew he had gotten in a critical strike.

Clegane may be bigger than everyone else, but he's still technically human. Same weaknesses, different response time
 

kvn

Member
Of course the coolest character had to die. It's one of these moments again where I ask myself if I want to continue watching this show. I only see mostly douchebags left. But then again ... let's delay this decision to next week.
 

Volimar

Member
Idk about that, The Night's Watch is fucked with 100k troops coming down on them, especially with that douchebag in charge (I forget his name). I don't see The Nights Watch being important next season.

I figure most of the night's watch is gonna die, and they'll be overrun. Wonder how Bolton and Greyjoy will react to 100,000 wildlings in the north.
 
Pretty sure he also sliced the Mountain's achilles. If he's not dead not sure how much use the Lannisters will have for the Mountain anymore anyway. Granted Oberyn was a pretty great fighter but the Mountain was dominated fairly handily.
 

CLEEK

Member
I'd assumed that after crushing Oberyn's skull like a melon, The Mountain slumps over and died. Double KO!

So I also assume that Tyrion will be safe for the time being due to the Gods not expecting a DKO in a fight to the death.
 

terrene

Banned
Episode 9 has got to be some crows (watchers @ The Wall) dying, because that shit has not happened yet, the Wildlings are on the rampage, and as you'll recall, this was the poster HBO put out to promo S4 starting:

game-of-thrones-all-men-must-die-poster-11x17_500.jpg


Could mean the end of Jon Snow :( I hope not!

Edit: Of course, that is the three-eyed raven, so that really could mean anything. :p
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
You know, the scene is good and all. But you can see being all into it and Jamie is like "fuck yeah look at me being handsome and making jokes". I dunno, I just wish Jaime was more into it.

That's part of the point of the scene though... Jaimie isn't an outsider like Tyrion. He's better than his sister and father (maybe) but doesn't see the details or the horrid poetry of the world they are in. Hell, even Tyrion only seems to kinda fathom the tragedy of the metaphor that is haunting him.
 

Zeliard

Member
This was a convenient plot point more than anything IMO. Oberyn was always a hot tempered guy but he was no idiot. I can see him in a normal circumstance staying out of the Mountain's range as he keeps talking, or at least have a weapon on him as he says it. He just went full retard with rage, vindictive actions going on to his crazy (and understandable) obsession at getting revenge. He just happened to a really stupid from a story POV. I could understand it for Robb and Ned, but this was a lot more convenient than the other occasions IMO to bring the shock value.

I don't view Oberyn as being an idiot there, though. He was absolutely enraged, and in that state your capacity to reason naturally diminishes, but it isn't a sign of stupidity. It's the way most human beings naturally respond to something tragic that has befallen them or their loved ones at the hands of another. Oberyn was fueled by vengeance and sought proper retribution, not only against The Mountain but Tywin as well, and that was the intent behind his words and actions once you go beneath the veil of his hatred.

Given what happened to his sister and her children, Oberyn's state of mind there is totally understandable. It's just unfortunate that his emotions got the better of him - in particular in a fight with someone like The Mountain - but I don't think it's a sign of idiocy or particularly out-of-character.

He was a likable character played by a strong, charismatic actor, which made his death rough (especially the gruesome fashion in which it happened), but I also think it was a terrific moment in the series from a purely dramatic standpoint. Oberyn's righteous rage combined with his highly effective, acrobatic fighting style, clearly superior in straight combat against a much larger, far more armored opponent others only speak of in hushed, terrified tones (classic David vs. Goliath). Unable to keep his emotions in check as he unleashes a torrent of hatred towards his bitter enemies, Oberyn doesn't defend himself properly against what was yet to be a fully defeated foe, and pays for it by being brutalized in a way viewers won't soon forget. It's harsh but excellent drama.
 

NoTacos

Member
Pretty sure he also sliced the Mountain's achilles. If he's not dead not sure how much use the Lannisters will have for the Mountain anymore anyway. Granted Oberyn was a pretty great fighter but the Mountain was dominated fairly handily.
I still stand by the idea Jamie was the best all around swordsman in Westoros. Jamie at Clegane's size would be a true test rather than a savage idiot swinging a sword around hoping to cut down an opponent that is both not scared of him and more skilled.

Also, if Dorne is packing skilled fighters like Oberyn, it's a miracle they haven't dominated yet. The other kingdoms would be set against an army of Gannicus clones *exaggeration, also we all know Ganny wouldn't survive a second with GRRM*
 

Zeppu

Member
I don't view Oberyn as being an idiot there, though. He was absolutely enraged, and in that state your capacity to reason naturally diminishes, but it isn't a sign of stupidity. It's the way most human beings naturally respond to something tragic that has befallen them or their loved ones at the hands of another. Oberyn was fueled by vengeance and sought proper retribution, not only against The Mountain but Tywin as well, and that was the intent behind his words and actions once you go beneath the veil of his hatred.

Given what happened to his sister and her children, Oberyn's state of mind there is totally understandable. It's just unfortunate that his emotions got the better of him - in particular in a fight with someone like The Mountain - but I don't think it's a sign of idiocy or particularly out-of-character.

He was a likable character played by a strong, charismatic actor, which made his death rough (especially the gruesome fashion in which it happened), but I also think it was a terrific moment in the series from a purely dramatic standpoint. Oberyn's righteous rage combined with his highly effective, acrobatic fighting style, clearly superior in straight combat against a much larger, far more armored opponent others only speak of in hushed, terrified tones (classic David vs. Goliath). Unable to keep his emotions in check as he unleashes a torrent of hatred towards his bitter enemies, Oberyn doesn't defend himself properly against what was yet to be a fully defeated foe, and pays for it by being brutalized in a way viewers won't soon forget. It's harsh but excellent drama.

Honestly I just found it stupid that he thought he'd get a confession from a dying man just by yelling at him. He could've induced more pain which in turn would've incapacitated him more.

That being said, the moment he took the spear out of the Mountain's chest I knew that his cockiness/anger had gotten the best of him. Him fighting the Mountain was basically all he ever spoke about, I would've thought he would've kept a cool, level head to make sure he'd be able to exact his revenge properly.

---

And while predictions and logic are pointless in this show, I think that if Tyrion had to die, he would've died there and then.

However why do people keep mentioning the outcome from a double ko? Were you all too traumatized to hear Tywin sentence Tyrion to death. It's already been decided in the eyes of the Gods/Court/people.
 

puebla

Member
I figure most of the night's watch is gonna die, and they'll be overrun. Wonder how Bolton and Greyjoy will react to 100,000 wildlings in the north.
This is how I feel. The Nights Watch is holding Jon's story back. I'm waiting for him to go lone wolf and become king or whatever.
 
I'd assumed that after crushing Oberyn's skull like a melon, The Mountain slumps over and died. Double KO!

So I also assume that Tyrion will be safe for the time being due to the Gods not expecting a DKO in a fight to the death.

Oberyn clearly died first. Gregor is the victor.
 

NoTacos

Member
I was wondering how he knocked out all his teeth with one punch lol. Its not like he had a metal glove on.
I believe a gaffer said the man consumes 10,000 calories a day. Combine that with the fact he's <10% body fat (theoretically) 400+ lbs and over 8 feet tall fighting a guy who is under 6 ft weighing 160-170 lbs, the strength potential of this man is insurmountable.

The question shouldn't be how did he knock all his teeth out with one hit, but how he didn't knock his jaw completely off along with them.
 

The Cowboy

Member
I was wondering how he knocked out all his teeth with one punch lol. Its not like he had a metal glove on.
With the size of the mountain and the size of his hands, i was left wondering how he didn't simply punch his head strait off let alone knock most of his teeth out.

God i love this show.
 

jond76

Banned
For some reason the image that bothered me most was when Oberyn started screaming, you could see his toothless mouth. It just drove home the fact that he was already dead, but we had to sit there and watch it unfold. Brutal.
 

Zeppu

Member
You all saw what a Warg'd Hodor managed to do a couple of weeks back. And that guy wasn't a trained warrior. Within the realm of what's portrayed in this world knocking a guy's teeth out with one punch is perfectly believable.
 

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
Meh. I saw something similar coming as soon as Oberyn accepted (I said Tyrion went for the Game Genie. Also known as an obvious mistake. Using the same "trick" twice and all that). No surprise, simply a little bit of bloody amusement.

And "Boo" to Daenerys' story. It sucks and I would be happy if neither she nor her band of merry men ever showed up until it was time for her to crash on the mainlands. Jorah the Talking Fedora getting the boot was entertaining though. All skeletons must fall out of the closet eventually.

Overall a mediocre episode. On the bright side, I finally saw what Sophie Turner was talking about in her interviews with Sansa's circumstance this season (turning the tables and all that). I suppose that was neat. She sports that new Vale getup swell too. Woo-wee.

Dying
 
I knew he was going to die, Everything was going too perfect. I knew it!!!. Why did he had such a terrible death though? Why do the villains always win =(.

Well I'll see next week, I wonder how Tyrion is going to die, it can't be worse than that.
 

NoTacos

Member
I knew he was going to die, Everything was going too perfect. I knew it!!!. Why did he had such a terrible death though? Why do the villains always win =(.

Well I'll see next week, I wonder how Tyrion is going to die, it can't be worse than that.
I think he and Jamie found out it was beheading.
 

UrbanRats

Member
I don't view Oberyn as being an idiot there, though. He was absolutely enraged, and in that state your capacity to reason naturally diminishes, but it isn't a sign of stupidity. It's the way most human beings naturally respond to something tragic that has befallen them or their loved ones at the hands of another. Oberyn was fueled by vengeance and sought proper retribution, not only against The Mountain but Tywin as well, and that was the intent behind his words and actions once you go beneath the veil of his hatred.

Given what happened to his sister and her children, Oberyn's state of mind there is totally understandable. It's just unfortunate that his emotions got the better of him - in particular in a fight with someone like The Mountain - but I don't think it's a sign of idiocy or particularly out-of-character.

He was a likable character played by a strong, charismatic actor, which made his death rough (especially the gruesome fashion in which it happened), but I also think it was a terrific moment in the series from a purely dramatic standpoint. Oberyn's righteous rage combined with his highly effective, acrobatic fighting style, clearly superior in straight combat against a much larger, far more armored opponent others only speak of in hushed, terrified tones (classic David vs. Goliath). Unable to keep his emotions in check as he unleashes a torrent of hatred towards his bitter enemies, Oberyn doesn't defend himself properly against what was yet to be a fully defeated foe, and pays for it by being brutalized in a way viewers won't soon forget. It's harsh but excellent drama.

I think it was a good development from a dramatic standpoint, but i didn't like the way they handled it on screen.
Be it the direction or the editing, it felt all somewhat contrived in execution, to me, and far too strongly telegraphed to really hit hard as it could have.

EDIT: To clarify, no, i didn't read the book so i'm not making a comparison; i'm saying the basic idea is good, but i didn't like the execution too much.
 
iH9n3gk.jpg


As someone who read the books years ago but is currently far behind on watching the show, I love seeing the reactions to episodes like this last one.
 

inm8num2

Member
If Tyrion does die there goes 95% of the reason why I watch Game of Thrones...
Everyone else I could give less of a shit about (except maybe Arya)

I don't think he'll die. They're just making us sweat how he'll survive a bit longer.

I think Jaime will save Tyrion somehow, but I don't know how quickly his execution will take place. If it's supposed to be soon after the trial by combat, then Tyrion will need plenty of luck/help.
 
I believe a gaffer said the man consumes 10,000 calories a day. Combine that with the fact he's <10% body fat (theoretically) 400+ lbs and over 8 feet tall fighting a guy who is under 6 ft weighing 160-170 lbs, the strength potential of this man is insurmountable.

The question shouldn't be how did he knock all his teeth out with one hit, but how he didn't knock his jaw completely off along with them.

punching when lying down has nothing to do with weight and power

its just impossible to generate enough force from where the mountain was to break any tooth
even if it was someone even bigger than the mountain.

not that i minded that it happened, it was awesome.

also , ofcourse it was stupid how oberyn acted...it was out of character.
 

mcflyOS

Banned
Watching everyone guess about what will happen in GoT when you know what happens is very fun :) I loved reading the books because I could not predict a single thing.

One criticism of the last episode.. the Grey Worm and Missandei romance feels forced, and wastes valuable time.
 
I think he and Jamie found out it was beheading.

Ah yearn the Ned Stark treatment, except that instead of his family trying to save him they are the ones trying to kill him.

God I just hope for a miracle but I can't even think of a way for Tyrion to get saved =(
 

The Cowboy

Member
also , ofcourse it was stupid how oberyn acted...it was out of character.
I don't think we can be so sure, this was the 1st time he had ever been within killing distance of the person who raped and killed his sister - we have no point of reference of how his character would act in such a situation. I can say from personal experience when i had a mental snap (while being bullied), my character changed drastically in an instant and i did things i would never do..

Was it stupid?, indeed it was, was it out of character?, we can't be so sure as this was a very unique situation.
 

GloveSlap

Member
Damn. Normally go back and watch the quintessential scenes a few times in the days after a new episode. I'm not sure I can watch the Oberyn fight again. It is just too disturbing.
 
I.....don't know what I expected. Slow episode, but had a lot of sub plots develop. Dark Sansa is the best Sansa.

Team Oberyn took a big hit in that episode. Such a shame, dude was such a badass.
 

NoTacos

Member
punching when lying down has nothing to do with weight and power

its just impossible to generate enough force from where the mountain was to break any tooth
even if it was someone even bigger than the mountain.

not that i minded that it happened, it was awesome.

also , ofcourse it was stupid how oberyn acted...it was out of character.
It's not completely impossible. Gregor held him at arms length which would be about 3 feet for a man his size. If he could get his arm cocked back far enough to the side for a cross while holding Oberyn's head in place, which is what he did if I remember correctly, I can totally see it happening, especially given Gregor's mythical strength capabilities.

But I agree with you nonetheless. When it happened the game completely changed.
 
Watching everyone guess about what will happen in GoT when you know what happens is very fun :) I loved reading the books because I could not predict a single thing.

One criticism of the last episode.. the Grey Worm and Missandei romance feels forced, and wastes valuable time.

How 'bout that OP, huh.


Also, Martin just really hates it when I feel happy. This episode was such a massive punch in the dick.

Also, for some reason I really loved the beattle squishing story.
 

Prine

Banned
Good grief :( I've not seem such a revered character go like that. I've got a feeling of emptiness inside me, I don't know how to explain it. I'm in shock
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom