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[Triple U]

but isnt exactly that calculating and cunning? hiding from the war?
he might not be bold, but he is calculating and cunning.

he made the right moves at the right time his whole life, which is why his family rules the realm and he is the true ruler behind the boy king.

Cunning in doing what he had to do ensure that Robert didn't put him to the sword? Sure.

But in losing his two children, largely losing a war to another boy king, and generally showing cowardice? Nah I don't buy it. Lets not forget how if it had not been for Tyrion and partly Cersei, Stannis would've sacked KL before Tywin would've ever got there.

Robb lost his head in the end(dude to his own actions) but he exposed Tywin IMO.

Also, no one respects Joffrey really. There's a reason nearly every powerful lord spat on his rise to the throne and rebelled.

 

[Speevy]

Tywin is the very definition of doing what needs to be done.

He's not above torture, but also respects the fact that pissing off the wrong people at the wrong time is not advisable.

He's a skilled general and a formidable politician. All of his foes have either been one or the other.

Example: He was ruthless enough to let The Mountain torture prisoners (something Robb wouldn't do). He was also cunning enough to forgive the Tyrells long enough to forge an alliance so he could defeat Stannis.

 

[Triple U]

Early in the war Catelyn explained to her son the way in which Tywin mercilessly massacred the Targaryens, hoping would Robb understand the magnitude of the stakes involved. Everything thing he held dear was tied to the war's outcome. Everything. "If you lose your father dies, your brothers and sisters die, we die." Catelyn laid all of this out so plainly Hordor would have gotten it. Robb pretended like he did but would go on to make a one impulsive, selfish, short-sighted, dumbshit decision after another, despite people around him warning against each one. You've seen the show, I don't have to list them. Sufficed to say Robb Stark was an savant in the art of fucking up spectacularly. He often showed little regard for anything other than his emotions in the moment.

A group of friends visit a zoo. One guy in the group says he's going to jump into the lion's pen, he wants to pet one. "Don't be an idiot", his friends scream. "You'll be mauled." Guy jumps in anyway, get's mauled. Do you sympathize with that person because I'm inclined not to? Now imagine his entire group of friends are mauled trying to save him and that guy is Robb Stark. With that said, I do feel sorry for the all the poor unlucky bastards who had the misfortune of following him into battle. Those North Men deserved better.

Trying to reconstitute his deal with Frey was really his only mistake. Tywin was on the run, the lannisters were on their heels. As you said, its in the show.


Cat telling Robb the implications of them losing the war meant nothing really. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Joffery or Tywin was going to wipe them out after the war if they loss.

 

[Cyan]

Robb should have made an alliance with Stannis.

Stannis gets the crown in return for the safety of the North.

Didn't Catelyn try to make a deal with him, but he was like "fuck you only if you drop all this 'king in the north' stuff."

 

[Moff]

Cunning in doing what he had to do ensure that Robert didn't put him to the sword? Sure.

But in losing his two children, largely losing a war to another boy king, and generally showing cowardice? Nah I don't buy it. Lets not forget how if it had not been for Tyrion and partly Cersei, Stannis would've sacked KL before Tywin would've ever got there.

Robb lost his head in the end(dude to his own actions) but he exposed Tywin IMO.

Also, no one respects Joffrey really. There's a reason nearly every powerful lord spat on his rise to the throne and rebelled.

you call him a coward, but I think courage is in many ways the exact opposite of "cunning and calculating".
he saved his family and legacy by "hiding under casterly rock". it was the smart, cunning and calculating thing to do.

and just because he lost a few battles doesnt mean he was "exposed", quite the contrary. that he still won the war despite losing battles says exactly how cunning and calcualating he is.

I think the results speak for themselves and I consider him one of the smartest men in the realm, he knows how the world works and you cant fuck with him.
the only person who somehow got the better of him was lady olenna, which is exactly why that was a very fun scene.

 

[Speevy]

Didn't Catelyn try to make a deal with him, but he was like "fuck you only if you drop all this 'king in the north' stuff."

"Your husband supported my claim, but you stand beside this pretender and chastise me."

"Joffrey, Renly, Robb Stark. They're all thieves. They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them."

Some quotes may not be exact.

 

[Triple U]

you call him a coward, but I think courage is in many ways the exact opposite of "cunning and calculating".
he saved his family and legacy by "hiding under casterly rock". it was the smart, cunning and calculating thing to do.

and just because he lost a few battles doesnt mean he was "exposed", quite the contrary. that he still won the war despite losing battles says exactly how cunning and calcualating he is.

I think the results speak for themselves and I consider him one of the smartest men in the realm, he knows how the world works and you cant fuck with him.
the only person who somehow got the better of him was lady olenna, which is exactly why that was a very fun scene.

I called him a coward and a poor decision maker in the heat of battle.

He was very much exposed at various points. Robb being dumb enough to try to enlist the Freys after crossing them was his fault, it had nothing to do with Tywin. Robb should've considered more of his options and proceeded to sack Casterly Rock.

Even still, Robb being dumb isn't some great triumph of Tywins skill in war.

Tywin is the very definition of doing what needs to be done.

He's not above torture, but also respects the fact that pissing off the wrong people at the wrong time is not advisable.

He's a skilled general and a formidable politician. All of his foes have either been one or the other.

Example: He was ruthless enough to let The Mountain torture prisoners (something Robb wouldn't do). He was also cunning enough to forgive the Tyrells long enough to forge an alliance so he could defeat Stannis.

If you discount him getting his ass handed to him, sure.

 

[Nameless]

Trying to reconstitute his deal with Frey was really his only mistake. Tywin was on the run, the lannisters were on their heels. As you said, its in the show.


Cat telling Robb the implications of them losing the war meant nothing really. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Joffery or Tywin was going to wipe them out after the war if they loss.

-Marrying Talisa/betraying Frey
-Negotiating with Balon
-Executing Rickard Karstark
-Trying to reconcile with Frey

These fuck ups cost him major chess pieces despite his being undefeated in a handful of battles.

And yeah, that that was the larger point. Not only did he make horrifically dumb decisions, but he did so in the face of very clear consequences. You lose you die, but he rarely played the game with that truth in mind.

 

[Speevy]

If you discount him getting his ass handed to him, sure.

Skilled leadership is about more than just winning battles. It's about knowing where to delegate resources, and how regroup after getting your ass handed to you.

Robb Stark was terrified of losing even a single battle because he knew that was it. He knew Tywin wouldn't stop until the Stark army was obliterated.

Watch season 2. All it talks about is how The Starks are winning. Even as season 3 begins though, the Starks are no closer to victory.

 

[titusandronicus]

Pretty good episode. I watched it in a pub which was fun because everyone laughed at funny parts and ooed when there was a sick burn. It was like super quiet as well because everyone was trying to listen to the dialogue. Though I've been quite ill recently, and about 5 or ten minutes in I needed to have a coughing fit so badly. Tears were rolling down my cheeks since I was holding it in so much. I eventually sneaked outside and coughed my guts up beside the bouncer. Thing is, this was just before the near gay action, so I looked like a homophobe when I got up to go lol.

 

[Triple U]

-
.

Marrying Talisa/betraying Frey

Meaningless. Its not like the Freys were a threat. Crossing them had no real dire consequences if you decide against their help.

-Negotiating with Balon

Don't see how this is inherently a fuckup. If you meet their toll, what exactly is the risk?

-Executing Rickard Karstark

IDK about this one. Maybe, for the sake of keeping Karstark's men. But what "king" lets people openly defy them?

Trying to reconcile with Frey

The only clear mistake in my eyes. Its either or. No problem with him crossing them but you can't go and try to double back.

 

[Speevy]

Robb and Catelyn admitted that reconciling with Walder Frey was the last resort.

"We'll die the way father died...or worse."

It's not like they just said "Hey guys, let's go visit that Frey guy."

 

[Nameless]

After rewatching Oberyn's reference to Lyanna is much more clear. Completely missed "and that started a war" watching live.

 

[Vashetti]

nah, stannis isn't that kind of person, he'll never take such a deal
he strikes me as all or nothing guy

Didn't Catelyn try to make a deal with him, but he was like "fuck you only if you drop all this 'king in the north' stuff."

In my scenario, Robb wouldn't have declared himself "King in the North". He'd pledge allegiance to Stannis in return for the safety of the Northern realm and the people that lived there.

It would be like the previous Ned and Robert set-up. Robert rules the Seven Kingdoms and Ned is charged with looking after Winterfell/The North.

Robb and Catelyn admitted that reconciling with Walder Frey was the last resort.

"We'll die the way father died...or worse."

It's not like they just said "Hey guys, let's go visit that Frey guy."

Watching the scene back where he and Talisa 'realise' they can take Casterly Rock with the Frey forces seems almost comical with hindsight. He's grinning from ear-to-ear at his own master plan.

 

[Moff]

I called him a coward and a poor decision maker in the heat of battle.

no one called him a great battle commander, but winning the war despite being a "poor decision maker in battle" is exactly what makes him calculating and cunning. its what he won the war with.
and while it would not have been possible to pull off the red wedding witthout robbs mistakes, it takes cunning and calculating to exploit these mistakes.
Frey and bolton would NEVER have done that witthout tywins assurances, tyrion made that clear in season 3, Episode 10.

the red wedding was tywins masterpiece of cunning and calculating, its what he won the war with.

 

[Triple U]

Skilled leadership is about more than just winning battles.It's about knowing where to delegate resources, and how regroup after getting your ass handed to you.

Robb Stark was terrified of losing even a single battle because he knew that was it. He knew Tywin wouldn't stop until the Stark army was obliterated.

Watch season 2. All it talks about is how The Starks are winning. Even as season 3 begins though, the Starks are no closer to victory.

They're virtually at a stale mate. The lannisters couldn't beat them in the field, Robb couldn't yet take the capital. So what?

 

[Cyan]

Yeah, Robb made mistakes, but Tywin maximized those mistakes.

If Cersei or somebody fucked off from an arranged marriage, you can bet Robb wouldn't be sending letters and setting up a slaughter of Lannisters with the offended family.

 

[Nameless]

Meaningless. Its not like the Freys were a threat. Crossing them had no real dire consequences if you decide against their help.



Don't see how this is inherently a fuckup. If you meet their toll, what exactly is the risk?



IDK about this one. Maybe, for the sake of keeping Karstark's men. But what "king" lets people openly defy them?


The only clear mistake in my eyes. Its either or. No problem with him crossing them but you can't go and try to double back.

-Considering it meant Frey men marched home and they lost a significant transportation route, I say it was far from meaningless.

-It's a fuck up because Catelyn once again explained how foolish it would be to even attempt dealing with Balon. She was right.

-There are plenty of ways he could have punished Karstark without further weakening his forces. Again, it was impulsive, and no doubt partly due to Talisa's reaction to the whole thing.

-This is more than a mistake. It was all Robb's flaws coming together for an all time shitstorm.

 

[Speevy]

They're virtually at a stale mate. The lannisters couldn't beat them in the field, Robb couldn't yet take the capital. So what?

Robb has won every battle he's ever fought, but has continued to lose soldiers in the process. He's also experienced a loss of morale, something that is not a problem for Tywin's forces. His men do what they're told or else.

If Robb gained as many men as the Tyrells command, would it still be a stalemate? So why does Tywin gaining this force mean nothing militarily?

 

[Alpende]

Watched it yesterday and I'm glad this is back. I'm kind of starting to like Jaime even though his relationship with his sis is fucked up. His little wave with his fake hand was pretty funny.

Tywin is an asshole for destorying Ned's sword but I see why he did it. Arya is badass and can't wait to see her become some sort of killing machine. Those dragons looked great and some of those landscape shots were beautiful.

Great season opener.

 

[eot]

Don't see how this is inherently a fuckup. If you meet their toll, what exactly is the risk?

If he hadn't sent Theon away it's quite likely that Winterfell would've been untouched. Keep in mind that Theon was a hostage, just with a fancier name. You don't send your hostage to negotiate with his family.

Also, I wouldn't say that Tywin was on the run. He still had a much larger host, especially after Highgarden left the rebellion. Robb was doing a good job fighting using guerilla tactics, but sooner or later he would've had to do a siege.

 

[TheOddOne]

Anyone got a 1080 version of this shot? I feel a nice new wallpaper.

EDIT: And potentially that one of all the wildlings readying their weapons as those erm... other dudes approached. (I forgot what they were called)

These good?

 

[Triple U]

Robb has won every battle he's ever fought, but has continued to lose soldiers in the process. He's also experienced a loss of morale, something that is not a problem for Tywin's forces. His men do what they're told or else.

If Robb gained as many men as the Tyrells command, would it still be a stalemate? So why does Tywin gaining this force mean nothing militarily?

I'd say so. That wouldn't be enough to take the capital. Even then I won't speak too much about the Martell's since I'm blessed with hindsight.

-


QUOTE]

Considering it meant Frey men marched home and they lost a significant transportation route, I say it was far from meaningless.

The lost the Freys and gained the Westerlings. I don't see how that's not a sidestep at best.

-It's a fuck up because Catelyn once again explained how foolish it would be to even attempt dealing with Balon. She was right.

Cat isn't all knowing. Her saying something is a bad idea doesn't make it one. She also said hey they exact their toll on anybody who tries to cross. There's no evidence that says they would've crossed Robb if he keep faithful to there demands. They crossed him after they got crossed by him.

-There are plenty of ways he could have punished Karstark without further weakening his forces. Again, it was impulsive, and no doubt partly due to Talisa's reaction to the whole thing.

And those way's died with him when he decided to mock the boy right in his face. What army respects the "king" tha allows that?

And Talisa along with Cat was pleading the entire time to spare the man.

no one called him a great battle commander, but winning the war despite being a "poor decision maker in battle" is exactly what makes him calculating and cunning. its what he won the war with.
and while it would not have been possible to pull off the red wedding witthout robbs mistakes, it takes cunning and calculating to exploit these mistakes.
Frey and bolton would NEVER have done that witthout tywins assurances, tyrion made that clear in season 3, Episode 10.

the red wedding was tywins masterpiece of cunning and calculating, its what he won the war with.

No, it isn't. You're trying to falsely equivalize him getting lucky with Robbs mistake as some genius master plan. After Walder's son marches home, with news of Robb's betrayal, of course the Frey's are looking to get even. It doesn't take any kind of genius to exploit that. Even still, the red wedding doesn't happen without Robb's attempt at reconciliation.

Him winning the war doesn't automatically mean he's a genius. No matter how many times you try to make that distinction.

 

[Moff]

No, it isn't. You're trying to falsely equivalize him getting lucky with Robbs mistake as some genius master plan. After Walder's son marches home, with news of Robb's betrayal, of course the Frey's are looking to get even. It doesn't take any kind of genius to exploit that. Even still, the red wedding doesn't happen without Robb's attempt at reconciliation.

Him winning the war doesn't automatically mean he's a genius. No matter how many times you try to make that distinction.

Now you are mixing things up, YOU are the one who always said losing battles made him look like a fool, YOU were the one who equated battle results with intelligence. not me.

I simply contradicted your statement, that Tywin wasnt cunning/calculating, when this was EXACTLY how he won the war (and took the whole realm), he didnt win it with strategy, brute force or excelling at battles, he won with cunning, and calculating.
no matter HOW cunning/calculating the red wedding was, thats irrelevant, the point is he won with these tools, cunning. and calculating. period.

 

[Red Arremer]

Funny, I was actually talking with a friend about Robb's mistakes during the war last night.

Meaningless. Its not like the Freys were a threat. Crossing them had no real dire consequences if you decide against their help.

[...]

The only clear mistake in my eyes. Its either or. No problem with him crossing them but you can't go and try to double back.

The Freys are no threat? The Twins are one of the most important strategic locations in Westeros, as it is the quickest way between the North and the Riverlands. Walder Frey is an extremely powerful and rich lord who has an enormous army.
And even the people in King's Landing know that Walder Frey is a man who doesn't take lightly to being scorned. After all, even years after Robert's Rebellion, he remembered that line of Hoster Tully's, "the late lord Frey", and was incredibly bitter over it, let alone the fact that many other Riverlords, first and foremost the Tullys, always shit on him. Catelyn even warned Robb about Walder Frey, I think even multiple times. She knew that crossing him could have dire consequences. Rickard Karstark knew, too.

Yet, instead of doing what he promised to do as payment for his forces crossing the Twins when marching south, he married out of "love".

In this case, Tywin was entirely correct: The House that has its family in the interest of their actions will always triumph over the house that bends to the whims and wishes of their children.

Don't see how this is inherently a fuckup. If you meet their toll, what exactly is the risk?

The Greyjoys would've never joined up with Robb. Ever. They hate the Starks, because they were one of the leading forces to crush Balon's attempted independence during Robert's Rebellion, and they took Balon's son from him. Yet Robb sent Theon, said son, to the Iron Islands, to tell him that his forces all were marching south.
It was literally sending a message to a burglar and telling him that you're not at home right now.

IDK about this one. Maybe, for the sake of keeping Karstark's men. But what "king" lets people openly defy them?

A wise king. A king who knows that if he loses half of his remaining army, he's guaranteed to lose the war. Catelyn told him not to kill Karstark. Talisa told him not to kill Karstark. Blackfish told him not to kill Karstark. Fucking Edmure told him not to kill Karstark. They told him to keep him as a hostage, so the Karstarks remain loyal at least until the war is over. But he went against the advice of all of the people around him and killed him anyway. It was a spur of the moment, rooted in his own hurt pride and anger.
And it was hypocritical, too - he didn't (really) punish Catelyn for freeing Jaimie Lannister, either.

The lost the Freys and gained the Westerlings. I don't see how that's not a sidestep at best.

No they didn't, Talisa isn't a Westerling, she's a lady from Volantis. The Westerlings weren't even mentioned on the show.

 

[Portugeezer]

All in all, I good start to the new season. Gave everyone a bit of what they wanted... and some brothels and violence.

though one thing I can't remember, the guy that got his dick cut off, was he killed last season? Or is he still alive? I can't remember; if he is alive then we didn't see him.

 

[Vashetti]

All in all, I good start to the new season. Gave everyone a bit of what they wanted... and some brothels and violence.

though one thing I can't remember, the guy that got his dick cut off, was he killed last season? Or is he still alive? I can't remember; if he is alive then we didn't see him.

He is alive and Ramsey has renamed him to Reek. That was the last we saw of him in 3x10.

There were loads of people we didn't see in this episode, don't worry about it.

 

[JB1981]

After rewatching Oberyn's reference to Lyanna is much more clear. Completely missed "and that started a war" watching live.

Is Jon Snow

Spoiler

the son of Lyanna and Ragar?

??? The "spoiler" is pure fan speculation. I have not read the books.

 

[TheYanger]

Is Jon Snow

Spoiler

the son of Lyanna and Ragar?

??? The "spoiler" is pure fan speculation. I have not read the books.

Huh, that'd be interesting.

Spoiler

I mean, I know he's ned's but I could see Rhaegar forcing himself onto Lyanna, making a baby, and Ned claiming it was his own bastard to save his sister's honor. I feel like he would've told Catelyn though

, but that would still be an interesting twist that would sorta make sense.

 

[Effect]

Quick question. How soon after the season is over do the blu-rays typically come out? Don't have HBO so that's going to my option for watching the show and I'm likely to get up caught somewhat quickly once I start buying. Streaming also isn't going to be an option either. To add streaming shows like this over the other game downloading, playing, twitch and youtube watching I and the rest of the family do would cause the cap to reached easily. So disc is the only option at this time.

 

[Mario007]

Quick question. How soon after the season is over do the blu-rays typically come out? Don't have HBO so that's going to my option for watching the show and I'm likely to get up caught somewhat quickly once I start buying.

They come out 1 month before the start of the new season

 

[Fuzzy]

Quick question. How soon after the season is over do the blu-rays typically come out? Don't have HBO so that's going to my option for watching the show and I'm likely to get up caught somewhat quickly once I start buying. Streaming also isn't going to be an option either. To add streaming shows like this over the other game downloading, playing, twitch and youtube watching I and the rest of the family do would cause the cap to reached easily. So disc is the only option at this time.

February 2015.

 

[Carbonox]

It was so great buying the boxset and going through 30 episodes in a week. Going back to waiting a week and then waiting a year for further episodes, these feels know no bounds.

Once the series ends I'll do a marathon of the whole thing. Only then will I know true peace.

 

[JB1981]

Quick question. How soon after the season is over do the blu-rays typically come out? Don't have HBO so that's going to my option for watching the show and I'm likely to get up caught somewhat quickly once I start buying. Streaming also isn't going to be an option either. To add streaming shows like this over the other game downloading, playing, twitch and youtube watching I and the rest of the family do would cause the cap to reached easily. So disc is the only option at this time.

Usually several months I believe.

 

[Effect]

Hmm. I guess I could make them last by actually limiting myself to a episode a week instead of marathoning them. However such a long wait is disappointing. Looking at the release dates it does seem like they are indeed release a month or two right before the new season starts.

 

[Triple U]

Now you are mixing things up, YOU are the one who always said losing battles made him look like a fool, YOU were the one who equated battle results with intelligence. not me.

I simply contradicted your statement, that Tywin wasnt cunning/calculating, when this was EXACTLY how he won the war (and took the whole realm), he didnt win it with strategy, brute force or excelling at battles, he won with cunning, and calculating.
no matter HOW cunning/calculating the red wedding was, thats irrelevant, the point is he won with these tools, cunning. and calculating. period.

I'm not mixing anything up. The great and fearful Lord Tywin getting his ass handed to him by a boy did make him look like a damn fool. I don't think there's anyway around that.

But knowing that the Freys literally abandoned the Starks and wanted to get even, he'd be a damn fool to not try and get their favor. You keep trying to make this move a brilliant triumph of intellect and battle sense but its an elementary move that only manifested because the enemy made a mistake. What if the starks decide to not let their guard down against the freys? What then? To pretend that Tywin had the foresight to set this up is disengenous. He's a man that struck gold with luck, not intellect. And that won him the war.

Funny, I was actually talking with a friend about Robb's mistakes during the war last night.

The Freys are no threat? The Twins are one of the most important strategic locations in Westeros, as it is the quickest way between the North and the Riverlands. Walder Frey is an extremely powerful and rich lord who has an enormous army.
And even the people in King's Landing know that Walder Frey is a man who doesn't take lightly to being scorned. After all, even years after Robert's Rebellion, he remembered that line of Hoster Tully's, "the late lord Frey", and was incredibly bitter over it, let alone the fact that many other Riverlords, first and foremost the Tullys, always shit on him. Catelyn even warned Robb about Walder Frey, I think even multiple times. She knew that crossing him could have dire consequences. Rickard Karstark knew, too.

Frey wanted no part in this war. Thats from his own mouth. He hated the Lannisters just as much as he hated the north. As he said, people shit on him all the time. No one particularly feared him.

He possesed the quickest way to there destination but its not the only way.

Yet, instead of doing what he promised to do as payment for his forces crossing the Twins when marching south, he married out of "love".

Which I think only becomes a mistake when he tries to double back and come to the table.

In this case, Tywin was entirely correct: The House that has its family in the interest of their actions will always triumph over the house that bends to the whims and wishes of their children.

The entire North was behind Robb, to the point where they declared him King and followed him into a rebellion. I don't really see how this applies. When Ned died, Robb became the one to decide whats best for the family.

And Tywin's a hypocrite. If we strictly go by the show, as soon as he heard that Jaime was captured he threw all strategy to hell, going so far as to throw his whole council out of the tent. He started a war for Tyrion for fucks sake.

The Greyjoys would've never joined up with Robb. Ever. They hate the Starks, because they were one of the leading forces to crush Balon's attempted independence during Robert's Rebellion, and they took Balon's son from him. Yet Robb sent Theon, said son, to the Iron Islands, to tell him that his forces all were marching south.
It was literally sending a message to a burglar and telling him that you're not at home right now.

I don't see how presenting the option to him hurts their cause. Whats the risk? Balon damn sure wasn't gonna try Robb directly, he tried to prod and poke at the North to see how far he could get. Taking Winterfell was all Theon acting on a whim. You see how fast Balon and Asha order their man to get the fuck up outta there. He isn't a threat.

A wise king. A king who knows that if he loses half of his remaining army, he's guaranteed to lose the war. Catelyn told him not to kill Karstark. Talisa told him not to kill Karstark. Blackfish told him not to kill Karstark. Fucking Edmure told him not to kill Karstark. They told him to keep him as a hostage, so the Karstarks remain loyal at least until the war is over. But he went against the advice of all of the people around him and killed him anyway. It was a spur of the moment, rooted in his own hurt pride and anger.
And it was hypocritical, too - he didn't (really) punish Catelyn for freeing Jaimie Lannister, either.

One of those people are his mother, and she only acted to free his sisters. Its a lot different from someone who's spitting at you in your face.

And what Karstark did was fucking stupid. He was trying so damn hard to kill Jaime, knowing damn well that Sansa and Arya(as far as they knew) were the Lannisters prisoners. And he still goes to kill the first lannister prisoner he see's, knowing that it could prevoke the Lannisters to harm Sansa even more than they were already with Joffrey's crazy ass running the show.

You put a king's sisters in danger and then mock him afterwards, you deserve to die.

No they didn't, Talisa isn't a Westerling, she's a lady from Volantis. The Westerlings weren't even mentioned on the show

Ah that's right book/show differences.

 

[Moff]

I'm not mixing anything up. The great and fearful Lord Tywin getting his ass handed to him by a boy did make him look like a damn fool. I don't think there's anyway around that.

so, according to you, winning a war doesnt make one automatically a genious, but losing battles make one automatically a fool?
come on, you just argue for the sake of arguing

But knowing that the Freys literally abandoned the Starks and wanted to get even, he'd be a damn fool to not try and get their favor. You keep trying to make this move a brilliant triumph of intellect.

No, I dont, and never did.
All I'm saying is that it wasnt a move of force, but a move of cunning and calculation.

 

[Triple U]

so, according to you, winning a war doesnt make one automatically a genious, but losing battles make one automatically a fool?
come on, you just argue for the sake of arguing



.

Losing to a child makes you a fool. Quit trying to avoid this distinction. Tyrion, Tywin, and even Joffrey admitted they were getting embarrassed. Especially with the reputation Tywin built.

No, I dont, and never did.
All I'm saying is that it wasnt a move of force, but a move of cunning and calculation

Its a move involving cunning, but there's levels of cunning. And this is pretty much the floor.

Thats all I'm saying. Figuring how to cut down the apple that's half an arm's length away doesn't prove you're an amazing engineer.

 

[J-Rod]

I think folks are too hard on Robb. Most of his bad decisions turned out bad because grmm wrote crazy curveballs. I doubt many saw the red wedding coming or Bolton's bastard trashing the city coming, but they like to reflect on it like everything should've been obvious to Robb the whole time. Everyone has made some pretty major fuck ups, some just happen to play out better for them than others, not because they were necessarily smarter decisions.

Also, I like the new actor. At least this guy actually comes off as somewhat charming whereas the other guy just seemed like a creeper and it didn't really make much sense for dany to be fond of him.

 

[Booties]

I love Aria Stark so much. Can't wait to see where her story is going. I want a super stealthy assassin.

 

[TheYanger]

I think folks are too hard on Robb. Most of his bad decisions turned out bad because grmm wrote crazy curveballs. I doubt many saw the red wedding coming or Bolton's bastard trashing the city coming, but they like to reflect on it like everything should've been obvious to Robb the whole time. Everyone has made some pretty major fuck ups, some just happen to play out better for them than others, not because they were necessarily smarter decisions.

Also, I like the new actor. At least this guy actually comes off as somewhat charming whereas the other guy just seemed like a creeper and it didn't really make much sense for dany to be fond of him.

Of course you don't 'see' the specifics coming, which is why he was so stupid. You need to set yourself up to have backups. He kept making decisions that removed support from his army until he was forced to crawl to the person he had pissed off the most in the first place. He was WARNED about this the entire way, since basically the start of the war, and he let it happen anyway. Walder Frey has a large army and is important, you don't fuck him over. The Karstarks have a large army and are important, don't fuck them over. If you fuck them over, you'll now have to beg Frey, who you have already fucked over.

This shit isn't rocket science, he ruined his own plans because he was selfish, essentially.

 

[Matt_]

I really hope Frey and his ilk get exactly what they deserve. Either revenge from the North somehow or Tywin fucking him over.

I think Jamie is becoming one of my favourite characters. Has he always had the dark hair though? Seems odd considering they made a fuss over hair colour in relation to Joffrey and his heritage

 

[Edwardo]

So we see Tormund and Ygritte meet up with the creepy cannibal wildlings (can't remember their name). As the scene ends, do we also see the Night's Watch members who betrayed Lord Commander Mormont? I couldve sworn it was Rast and crew that were coming up on the wildlings.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

oh im not saying that the red wedding was deserved, but hes also an idiot. Walder Frey is a piece of shit however.

 

[Matt_]

Is what his face dead? The bastard took by the Red Lady to dragonstone that they used leeches to get royal blood. I forget his name

 

[Edwardo]

Is what his face dead? The bastard took by the Red Lady to dragonstone that they used leeches to get royal blood. I forget his name

Nah, Gendry is alive. The Onion Knight helps him escape in, I think, the last episode of season three.

 

[Morts]

Nah, Gendry is alive. The Onion Knight helps him escape in, I think, the last episode of season three.

Yeah, we last saw him getting in a rowboat headed for King's Landing.

 

[Matt_]

Nah, Gendry is alive. The Onion Knight helps him escape in, I think, the last episode of season three.

Aaah thanks, I should really have rewatched season 3 before this series started

 

[Moff]

Losing to a child makes you a fool. Quit trying to avoid this distinction. Tyrion, Tywin, and even Joffrey admitted they were getting embarrassed. Especially with the reputation Tywin built.



Its a move involving cunning, but there's levels of cunning. And this is pretty much the floor.

Thats all I'm saying. Figuring how to cut down the apple that's half an arm's length away doesn't prove you're an amazing engineer.

well at least you finally admit that he uses some kind of cunning/calculation.
the level is debatable, I dont agree at all, and I'm pretty sure most watchers/readers dont either.
pretty much everything he ever accomplished he did with cunning/calculation, luck of course is always a factor, but I think he always made the right decisions, that involves the red wedding, "hiding under casterly rock, marrying his daughter to the king, moving against the reynes and all I actually know of. or do you know of a decision that was actually dumb?

and although he definitely looked like a fool, losing battles against a new king doesnt make you dumb, he underestimated robb, as did the whole realm and even robbs own men. his skills in battle and strategy came as a surprise to everyone, that doesnt mean tywin was dumb. especially if he wasnt even present at the battles.

 

[Vagabundo]

I love the pacing of the show now. They seem to have it down perfect since Season 2. Season 2 tried to squeeze too much into every episode and everything felt a bit rushed.

The Arya and Hound double act is very entertaining.

Delicious symmetry with two Lannisters rejecting their former shag partners.

Shae brilliant, as always, my favorite minor character.