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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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Macka

Member
Hi army isn't actually very big. In the book, I think it states he has about 1000 men on horse who just happen to be well-trained and organized -- easily routing the much larger but highly disorganized tribes of wildlings that also consist of many non-fighters. As Mance mentioned, they just want passage to settle down in peace and safety somewhere south of the Wall before winter arrives. They're not equipped nor trained nor intent on invading and conquering.
In that case, why the hell would Stannis sail North and march into battle with only 1000 men? I mean...the battles in the South were between armies nearing 100,000 men...and Melissandre said they meant nothing compared to the real threat in the North.

Am I missing something? Did Stannis just get lucky, or did he have more information?
 
Thanks. Wasn't aware of the Targaryen blood bit. I think that helps justify it.
Just to throw it out there...but in Season 1 Cersei says that Eddard had just as much claim to the throne, but Eddard didn't take it. He was the first to enter the throne after Jamie killed the Mad King, and Jamie was on the throne. Jamie vacated the throne, and Eddard left it empty. Eventually Robert took it.
 

CornDogg

Member
Because Robert overthrough the Mad King, that puts him on the throne. Since he's dead and has no kids, Stannis is the Mannis.

True, but Robert didn't do it alone. I was curious if there was a reason (and apparently there was), why Robert had the best claim over, say, Ned Stark.
 

Chopper

Member
Besides resurrections (fucking cheating red god), most of the other fantasy stuff are not in Westeros.
Don't forget smoke baby murderer.

Edit: I think it's fair to say that the fantasy elements have started to ramp up alot lately. But then I expected it. Dragons and ice zombies aren't a very subtle pretext.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
Okay, so to get the Shae part straight.

It was to my understanding that Shae was forced against her will/life to testify against Tyrion. I mean, it was hurtful for Tyrion, but I thought he "knew" that was the case.

With what happened in the last episode, I'm guessing I didn't understand the case at all! It seems she either testified to remain in regal life or was given plenty gold as she seemed comfy in Tywin's bed?
 

CornDogg

Member
Just to throw it out there...but in Season 1 Cersei says that Eddard had just as much claim to the throne, but Eddard didn't take it. He was the first to enter the throne after Jamie killed the Mad King, and Jamie was on the throne. Jamie vacated the throne, and Eddard left it empty. Eventually Robert took it.

Thanks. I had forgotten that part. So Robert didn't necessarily have the best claim to the throne, except maybe because of some Targaryen blood, but he snatched it up when Ned wouldn't.
 

TronLight

Everybody is Mikkelsexual
Okay, so to get the Shae part straight.

It was to my understanding that Shae was forced against her will/life to testify against Tyrion. I mean, it was hurtful for Tyrion, but I thought he "knew" that was the case.

With what happened in the last episode, I'm guessing I didn't understand the case at all! It seems she either testified to remain in regal life or was given plenty gold as she seemed comfy in Tywin's bed?

She's a whore.
I mean, she was in love with Tyrion, but then she got everything he did to save her backwards, and she turned to whore status, Tywin offered her wealth in exchage for Tyrion, and she accepted.
 

tino

Banned
True, but Robert didn't do it alone. I was curious if there was a reason (and apparently there was), why Robert had the best claim over, say, Ned Stark.

Robert had better chance to have a successful reign IMO. Ned was already married during the rebellion IIRC. Robert could still use marriage to make aliance to one of the major house after King's Landing was sacked.

Don't forget smoke baby murderer.

Edit: I think it's fair to say that the fantasy elements have started to ramp up alot lately. But then I expected it. Dragons and ice zombies aren't a very subtle pretext.

What baby smoke murderer? I am drawing a complete blank.
 

terrene

Banned
I've long been a fan of Stannis as a character. Awesome to see him really shake things up.

People dislike him because he's so distant and cold. I think he's interesting for precisely those reasons.

He's also had the best claim to the throne this entire time. Screw the pretenders.
He's a true Baratheon unlike Cersei's Deliverance-spawn so he does have the best claim, but who cared about some broke-ass guy living on a remote island who hangs out with Fantasy Yoko all the time?

I mean now that the Iron Bank is behind him and he's on the same land mass as King's Landing and he has some men, sure, but it was pretty drab for a long while. The dude barely even spoke.
 

CornDogg

Member
Robert had better chance to have a successful reign IMO. Ned was already married during the rebellion IIRC. Robert could still use marriage to make aliance to one of the major house after King's Landing was sacked.

I can agree with the latter half of this statement. We all saw how Robert's reign turned out, though. I'd like to think Ned would have ruled more responsibly and not fell victim to the indulging tendencies that Robert exhibited.
 

CLEEK

Member
Has there been any explanation for why men who die South of The Wall do not turn into wights?

The dead don't just turn into whights. The White Walkers have to change them. There are White Walker North of the wall, but not South of it. Yet.

Castle Black is South of the wall, and they're burning their dead as they know that White Walkers are approaching. And just before the fight with the Wildlings last episode, they all spoke about how they didn't want to get turned and wanted to be burned if they die.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
She's a whore.
I mean, she was in love with Tyrion, but then she got everything he did backwards, and she turned to whore status, Tywin offered her wealth in exchage for Tyrion, and she accepted.

Thanks! Comes off so simple when you say it, but I was rather puzzled off of my previous conclusion! Good riddance and so on.
 
I can agree with the latter half of this statement. We all saw how Robert's reign turned out, though. I'd like to think Ned would have ruled more responsibly and not fell victim to the indulging tendencies that Robert exhibited.
Poor Robert might've been a great king if his depression from Lyanna's death didn't ruin his life.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Speaking of Robert, I'd love to see them do a prequel with him wrecking shit with his warhammer.
I'd love a prequel set during the rebellion. There's at least a couple seasons of good TV there. Or even going back to the OG Targaryen's conquering the kingdoms and forging the throne. So much good stuff to work with...
 

Nibel

Member
Pretty sure this has been posted in here knowing you guys, but for those who haven't read it yet:

George R.R. Martin: The Complete Rolling Stone Interview

Very insightful and inspiring stuff. Martin talks about his life and how it influenced it creating Game Of Thrones and his other work. There doesn't seem any major spoilers for people who have seen the fourth season up until episode two, at least not from I can tell. Recommended!
 
Pretty sure this has been posted in here knowing you guys, but for those who haven't read it yet:

George R.R. Martin: The Complete Rolling Stone Interview

Very insightful and inspiring stuff. Martin talks about his life and how it influenced it creating Game Of Thrones and his other work. There doesn't seem any major spoilers for people who have seen the fourth season up until episode two, at least not from I can tell. Recommended!
Reading now. I'll take your word for it, but if something gets ruined for me, I'm haunting you in my next life.
 

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
Poor Robert might've been a great king if his depression from Lyanna's death didn't ruin his life.
Robert was a great warrior, but didn't really have the mind of a good king. Dude ignored his duties and YOLO'd the crown into crippling debt. He wasn't wise, going back to the late Tywin's speech about what makes a good king.
 
Poor Robert might've been a great king if his depression from Lyanna's death didn't ruin his life.
Not quite the full picture. Robert was an exceptional conqueror, but he was a crappy ruler. He craved the adrenaline rush, the warring, the violence, the excitement of leading charge in battles and going apeshit on his foes. He didn't lose a single battle. Once he conquered the entire Westeros, he grew tired of sitting on the throne all day and completely recused himself from the day to day runnings of an empire. He was not at all suitable to be a ruler or a governor, and let Jon Arryn (his Hand) do most of the heavy lifting. Remember, he never attended a small council meeting unless it was extremely super urgent. In order to let out steam, he went on boar hunts and fucked around in orgies. Though Lyanna's death contributed to his failure, in the end it was his personality and choices that led to the mess.

edit: beaten like hound's head with a rock
 
Not quite the full picture. Robert was an exceptional conqueror, but he was a crappy ruler. He craved the adrenaline rush, the warring, the violence, the excitement of leading charge in battles and going apeshit on his foes. He didn't lose a single battle. Once he conquered the entire Westeros, he grew tired of sitting on the throne all day and completely excused himself from the day to day runnings of an empire. He was not at all suitable to be a ruler or a governor, and let Jon Arryn (his Hand) do most of the heavy lifting. Remember, he never attended a small council meeting unless it was extremely super urgent. In order to let out steam, he went on boar hunts and fucked around in orgies. Though Lyanna's death contributed to his failure, in the end it was his personality and choices that led to the mess.

edit: beaten like hound's head with a rock
Right, right. I'm with ya, but all of this happened after the love of his life died. I'm just saying maybe in some far off galaxy he would've been all right at leading and being a king if he wasn't busy burying his grief in alcohol?

By the way, I'm reading the Martin interview and got distracted by a side article about other roles the actors have had. I knew most of them, but holy shit. Grand Measter Pycelle was this dude:

Pycelle_zps846112e9.png


And Robert Baratheon was Fred Flinstone in one of the movies? Crazy!
 

Brofist

Member
Which of the episode recap/review websites does so without mentioning the books. A lot of them like to sneak a book comment in randomly.
 
True, but Robert didn't do it alone. I was curious if there was a reason (and apparently there was), why Robert had the best claim over, say, Ned Stark.

Everyone has already said it, but I think it's just whoever sat upon the throne would be King at that point. Robert had the best chance a successful reign (because of what everyone else said).
 

Madrin

Member
Reading now. I'll take your word for it, but if something gets ruined for me, I'm haunting you in my next life.

Would you mind verifying that there are no spoilers when you finish it? I love reading and watching George RR Martin interviews but I've already run into so many spoilers in the past from doing that.
 

zeroOman

Member
why do we have to wait 10 eps just to see his ass dead? why whhyyy

If u only saw the smile on my face when he shot that dame arrow to his father....
 

Kaji

Member
For anybody that knows, if I was to start reading now am I best starting from the start or is there a book close enough to where we landed were I can pick up and go to a degree?

I must consume more knowledge!
 

Ferrio

Banned
For anybody that knows, if I was to start reading now am I best starting from the start or is there a book close enough to where we landed were I can pick up and go to a degree?

I must consume more knowledge!

Start from the beginning. They'll reference stuff in the books that weren't covered in the show and you'll be a bit lost.
 

BraXzy

Member
I won't lie...when there was a naked woman in the bed, I was stumped. My brain was just going "Who the Hell is that?" And when she turned over "ooooooh shit!"

At first I thought it was Cersei simply because I assumed that's who he'd want to kill.

Just watched the finale and overall really liked it. Tied up some loose ends, finally made Stannis do something outside, and Tywin (as awesomely acted as he is) is dead. Arya setting off to Braavos was an awesome ending.

I'm still miffed that the three-eyed raven storyline is only just getting into it. At least it's set up for next season. Sooooo many things to cover that they simply can't in 10 episodes.
 

tino

Banned
Poor Robert might've been a great king if his depression from Lyanna's death didn't ruin his life.

If Robert has what it takes to be a good king he would still marry the Lannister (money) and make marriage alliance with the Starks in another way (i.e. make Stannis marry Lyannna).
 
robert baratheon was fred flintstone? must have been the shitty sequel. because john goodman was an amazing fred.

robert baratheon was one of the best performances in this show btw. him and joffrey were even better than their book counterparts.
 

Finalow

Member
wait, where was the army of Mance? 100'000? More like 15. if that was supposed to be Stannis killing/capturing Mance's army then well, it sucked.

besides that, great episode. damn Tyrion.

and Arya such a waifu.
 

turtle553

Member
robert baratheon was fred flintstone? must have been the shitty sequel. because john goodman was an amazing fred.

robert baratheon was one of the best performances in this show btw. him and joffrey were even better than their book counterparts.

He was also the fat guy from The Full Monty.

01.jpg
 
Would you mind verifying that there are no spoilers when you finish it? I love reading and watching George RR Martin interviews but I've already run into so many spoilers in the past from doing that.
I just finished it. There are no real spoilers, per se. If there is anything spoiler-ish, it is Page 4 of the interview. But there really is no spoiler. Just confirmation of things we've already seen. And the top of page 4 points a finger at a mystery that some may or may not have forgotten is a mystery, and in that shedding of light confirm suspicions.

Overall, a great read. Martin is a damn smart man, and someone you would love to just sit down with over a beer and chat for hours with. I loved him talking about reading Tolkein, thinking he could never be that good. It is exactly what I've felt numerous times, when I read Tolkein, and especially as I've started book 1 of A Song of Ice and Fire.

Pretty sure this has been posted in here knowing you guys, but for those who haven't read it yet:

George R.R. Martin: The Complete Rolling Stone Interview

Very insightful and inspiring stuff. Martin talks about his life and how it influenced it creating Game Of Thrones and his other work. There doesn't seem any major spoilers for people who have seen the fourth season up until episode two, at least not from I can tell. Recommended!
Reposting the interview Nibel suggested. It is quite good.
 

Madrin

Member
I just finished it. There are no real spoilers, per se. If there is anything spoiler-ish, it is Page 4 of the interview. But there really is no spoiler. Just confirmation of things we've already seen. And the top of page 4 points a finger at a mystery that some may or may not have forgotten is a mystery, and in that shedding of light confirm suspicions.

Overall, a great read. Martin is a damn smart man, and someone you would love to just sit down with over a beer and chat for hours with. I loved him talking about reading Tolkein, thinking he could never be that good. It is exactly what I've felt numerous times, when I read Tolkein, and especially as I've started book 1 of A Song of Ice and Fire.

Awesome, thanks! I'll skip page 4 just to be safe.
 
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