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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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demolitio

Member
Speaking of Stannis. Must really suck for Roose Bolton and the Freys that Stannis just parked the mother of all armies right at their doorsteps. Plus, there's no more Tywin Lannister to make some hail mary plays. Would be interesting to see what the Tyrells do now, and with Dorne expectedly pissed, looks like the Lannisters and their buddies are in for an asswhopping next season



I agree with you. The skeletons showing up was weird. It felt like I was suddenly watching some sci fi channel show or something.

Yup. I think this will make Roose Bolton act out sooner rather than later. Not to mention there's no telling whether Stannis would allow Roose to remain Warden of the North if he was King from a loyalty perspective, especially with Roose siding with the Lannisters for his own personal gain while most Northern houses will want him dead although that would depend on how much they all yearn for peace or how bad the supernatural threats are at the time.

While most people think Cersei will have more power now, I think it's only a matter of time until her downfall since her father is what kept the place going. Now with Stannis gaining support and most likely getting a lot of the North rallying behind him for now (assuming Littlefinger doesn't use Sansa to take back the North first), I don't see King's Landing being a safe place for long.

I'm just anxious to see if Roose and Stannis meet next season and how it goes. Stannis will do anything to get his throne, but I think it's clear Roose has bigger ambitions as well and I'm not sure how Stannis will react to Roose doing something so dishonorable and taking over the North with the help of the Lannisters. Part of me thinks he won't care until Roose becomes a threat to the throne though.

Either way, the petty politics will have to take a backseat to the real threat beyond the wall since it won't remain there forever. Afterall, Winter is coming*...

*Sometime before 2018
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
That was the impression I was getting. Two boats from separate places going roughly to the same place. Which is far away from Westeros as possible.
 
Yup. I think this will make Roose Bolton act out sooner rather than later. Not to mention there's no telling whether Stannis would allow Roose to remain Warden of the North if he was King from a loyalty perspective, especially with Roose siding with the Lannisters for his own personal gain while most Northern houses will want him dead although that would depend on how much they all yearn for peace or how bad the supernatural threats are at the time.

While most people think Cersei will have more power now, I think it's only a matter of time until her downfall since her father is what kept the place going. Now with Stannis gaining support and most likely getting a lot of the North rallying behind him for now (assuming Littlefinger doesn't use Sansa to take back the North first), I don't see King's Landing being a safe place for long.

I'm just anxious to see if Roose and Stannis meet next season and how it goes. Stannis will do anything to get his throne, but I think it's clear Roose has bigger ambitions as well and I'm not sure how Stannis will react to Roose doing something so dishonorable and taking over the North with the help of the Lannisters. Part of me thinks he won't care until Roose becomes a threat to the throne though.

Either way, the petty politics will have to take a backseat to the real threat beyond the wall since it won't remain there forever. Afterall, Winter is coming*...

*Sometime before 2018

Who would win if they meet head to head and despise each other? Boltons or Stannis?
 

DarkKyo

Member
Possibly my top highlight from this season was Brienne vs. Sandor. Possibly the most brutal and gritty fight in the entire series featuring two incredibly prolific characters. The Hound's "death scene" was amazing as well.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
So are Tyrion and Arya on good terms right now. What would happen if they happened to meet? Do they have any hatred towards each other at this point?
 

DarkKyo

Member
So are Tyrion and Arya on good terms right now. What would happen if they happened to meet? Do they have any hatred towards each other at this point?

Seems he was never on her list but I wouldn't put it past her to try and kill a Lannister if she were to meet him... Maybe if she knew how kind he was to Sansa it would be a different story.
 

Mario007

Member
Just caught up. So are tyrion and arya going to the same place? The free city?

The "Free Cities" (not City) are city states in Essos that are remnants of the Old Valyria after it was destroyed. Yunkai, Mereen, Quarth, Astapor, Braavos etc. Arya is going to Braavos so yes she's off to a Free City. Tyrion is also going to the Free Cities, going by what Jamie said to him, we just don't know which one.
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
Seems he was never on her list but I wouldn't put it past her to try and kill a Lannister if she were to meet him... Maybe if she knew how kind he was to Sansa it would be a different story.
What if Arya ends up killing Tyrion? Oh god. I don't know how I'd feel there. It's already too much that Brienne kind of sort of killed The Hound. It's exactly what GRRM would do too, isn't it?
 
Can we have an alternate reality where Brienne and The Hound fall in love and run away raising Arya and Pod as their adoptive children and teaching them to be amazing warriors and guardians of their gigantic child who is destined to rule Westoros?
 

Deitus

Member
Yup. I think this will make Roose Bolton act out sooner rather than later. Not to mention there's no telling whether Stannis would allow Roose to remain Warden of the North if he was King from a loyalty perspective, especially with Roose siding with the Lannisters for his own personal gain while most Northern houses will want him dead although that would depend on how much they all yearn for peace or how bad the supernatural threats are at the time.

While most people think Cersei will have more power now, I think it's only a matter of time until her downfall since her father is what kept the place going. Now with Stannis gaining support and most likely getting a lot of the North rallying behind him for now (assuming Littlefinger doesn't use Sansa to take back the North first), I don't see King's Landing being a safe place for long.

I'm just anxious to see if Roose and Stannis meet next season and how it goes. Stannis will do anything to get his throne, but I think it's clear Roose has bigger ambitions as well and I'm not sure how Stannis will react to Roose doing something so dishonorable and taking over the North with the help of the Lannisters. Part of me thinks he won't care until Roose becomes a threat to the throne though.

I very much doubt that Stannis would forgive Roose's past crimes. Stannis is someone who places a lot of value in honor (although ironically I don't find him to be particularly honorable). Unlike the many schemers, I don't see him being able to work alongside someone who he believes is dishonorable, no matter how beneficial it would be for him. Even Davos who he knighted for saving his and his soldiers lives with his onions, he still had to cut off his fingers as punishment for smuggling.

Roose had sworn loyalty to Rob, and then betrayed and personally murdered him. Even if Stannis did not acknowledge Rob's title of King, betraying an oath is not something he would abide.

And beyond that, the Red Wedding was in clear violation of Guest Rights, which is one of the most heinous offenses one can commit in Westeros. Worse even than sending a magic shadow baby to assassinate your brother, but I digress. I'm not sure if the fact that Roose was not technically the host matters or not, but he at least conspired in the whole situation.

But even if Stannis did pardon Roose's offenses, there is no way he would allow him to keep his title as Warden of the North. There is just no way he could trust a man who murdered his last King, to rule over anything. And Roose is likely unwilling to accept loosing this title that he worked so hard to "earn".

I could see Stannis offering him a one time deal of allowing him to live if he surrenders immediately and unconditionally, and Roose refusing out of pride. Though of course that would have to be a decision he eventually regrets.
 

Philippo

Member
I think he might have died and may have turned into a white walker.We probably won't get an answer anytime soon anyway, so speculate away!

I really think Benjen Stark became a White Walker. I don't know if that's really how White Walkers work (though we see that one baby being transformed into one, so...) but that's just my gut feeling on it. The White Walkers are obviously going to be a huge menace down the road, but they can't be completely alien to the characters (or the audience), there's gonna need to be a face and a voice to put on them -- which I think will end up being Benjen's role.

I initially thought he was the long haired WW we saw since the end of S2, but then a few pages back i got that dead humans can only become wight (the zombies) and not WWs, which are a proper race. Still doesn't explain the newborn becoming one of them thou.
 

Seth C

Member
I initially thought he was the long haired WW we saw since the end of S2, but then a few pages back i got that dead humans can only become wight (the zombies) and not WWs, which are a proper race. Still doesn't explain the newborn becoming one of them thou.

I think you answered your own question there. Dead humans. The baby was alive. It seems the live humans (or at least infants) can be converted. Hell, maybe all white walkers were once human.
 

Volimar

Member
Some characters have really gone AWOL on the show, Uncle Benjen, Blackfish (Catelyn's uncle), Gendry, Osha, Rickon Stark and maybe Syrio Forel (I have a feeling he dead tho).


pk06WOV.png
 

komplanen

Member
I'm not yet sure which one is better:

a) Things happen as they did in the show. Tyrion finds Shae really was just a whore, kills papa and escapes with Varyn to new adventures.

b) When the scenes started to play out I was sure Varyn would not help Tyrion so I assumed that Tywin had orchestrated the whole thing so that he could "catch" Jamie helping Tyrion red handed. This way he could still kill Tyrion and either kill or send out Jamie to the Wall as a punishment for what he learned from Cercei about their relationship.

I kinda prefer a) since it is such an immense power-shift when now Papa Lannister isn't pulling the strings and of course I didn't want Jamie and Tyrion to get fucked. But it could have been a nice end of the season too if Tywin had retaliated for what Cercei told him.
 

Yonafunu

Member
Aaaaaaand I started reading the books.

Same here. DWD is like 3 times the size of my phone book.

Did you start with the first? You should really start with the first.
This goes for everyone who's going to read the books. There's a lot of important backstory, additional info and a ton of characters in there that come back in next books. Seriously, don't skip the first book.

That said, book talk is in the other thread, so I'm out. This was just a PSA ;)
 

Moonlight

Banned
b) When the scenes started to play out I was sure Varyn would not help Tyrion so I assumed that Tywin had orchestrated the whole thing so that he could "catch" Jamie helping Tyrion red handed. This way he could still kill Tyrion and either kill or send out Jamie to the Wall as a punishment for what he learned from Cercei about their relationship.
This wouldn't have made any sense given Tywin's motivations. He's always been family first, Lannisters first. Killing off (or exiling) both of his male heirs would fly in the face of that.
 

komplanen

Member
This wouldn't have made any sense given Tywin's motivations. He's always been family first, Lannisters first. Killing off (or exiling) both of his male heirs would fly in the face of that.

Even after getting a confirmation that every Lannister below him is a complete abomination? I bet he'd done anything at that point. Maybe not :)
 
You can't kill an armoured man with a broken wooden sword. Maybe he managed to incapacitate him and escaped and Meryn didn't tell anyone that he was beaten by a little man with no armour and a wooden sword in hand-to-hand combat.

Maybe if you rammed it through their helmet's peephole...?
 

Moonlight

Banned
Even after getting a confirmation that every Lannister below him is a complete abomination? I bet he'd done anything at that point. Maybe not :)
Tywin is a pragmatist. He'd find out a way to punish his children, but I seriously doubt he'd want his legacy to end with them.
 
You can't kill an armoured man with a broken wooden sword. Maybe he managed to incapacitate him and escaped and Meryn didn't tell anyone that he was beaten by a little man with no armour and a wooden sword in hand-to-hand combat.
He could have disarmed one of the guards and used their sword. I really want him to still be alive too but best not to get my hopes up I guess.
 
Do we know WHY Varys helped Tyrion escaped? His stance has always been for the good of the realm and that was his reasoning for not helping Ned back in S1. He's always been very firm about not picking sides and then helps Tyrion escape.
 

LeBart

Member
Do we know WHY Varys helped Tyrion escaped? His stance has always been for the good of the realm and that was his reasoning for not helping Ned back in S1. He's always been very firm about not picking sides and then helps Tyrion escape.

"There are many who know that without you, this city faced certain defeat. The King won't give you any honors, the histories won't mention you, but we will not forget."
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Do we know WHY Varys helped Tyrion escaped? His stance has always been for the good of the realm and that was his reasoning for not helping Ned back in S1. He's always been very firm about not picking sides and then helps Tyrion escape.

Not really, but one thing that is clear with Varys is that he plays the game for the long term. He's by far one of the most methodical, manipulative characters matched (or exceeded) only by Littlefinger. Varys is a lot more invested in the long term survival and/or conquest of Westeros alongside the rest of the world than other characters know, and I get the vibe he's a lot more informed and aware of shit that's happening on a mystical level than anybody else in Kings Landing. Both Littlefinger and Varys are playing big games behind the scenes, slowly and methodically, but Littlefinger seems more about literal, mortal conquest and Varys has a deeper understanding of the world itself.
 
Can we have an alternate reality where Brienne and The Hound fall in love and run away raising Arya and Pod as their adoptive children and teaching them to be amazing warriors and guardians of their gigantic child who is destined to rule Westoros?
Sign me up for the spinoff family sitcom airing next fall on ABC!
 
Does anyone else think the Dany storyline didn't really go anywhere (even more than usual)? Daario seemed completely pointless and we have idea what's really happened to Jorah.

Not especially excited for next series knowing there's no Tywin or the Hound, but we're still going to get Sam/Gilly/Jon rubbish (and Bran's usual boring scenes, but at least that might be going somewhere now).


Oooooooooh I had forgotten that exchange between them. He's so fucking awesome.

Varys and Davos are the only people I'm rooting for now that Tyrion's become a bit of a cringey golden boy (and Syrio if he's somehow not dead).

that and no rickon

it's probably because this season and the last spanned one book

There was hardly any Iron Islands stuff either (did Balon even show up?) Just one pathetic attempt at rescuing Theon.
 

KeeperOfOaths

Neo Member
ooooooooooooooooh interesting :OOOO

i think he wont be any good at it though. he's a bonehead. pretty, but a bonehead nevertheless.

can woman be hand? in that case, his mom might be prime candidate.


make olenna hand :D she'll be awesome

Based on what do you say that Jaime is a bonehead? There is no evidence that he is stupid. Quite the contrary! He doesn´t care about power, and he can´t be bothered with it, true. But he is not at all stupid! He can be quite cunning and smart and a quick thinker when he wants!
 

Deitus

Member
Do we know WHY Varys helped Tyrion escaped? His stance has always been for the good of the realm and that was his reasoning for not helping Ned back in S1. He's always been very firm about not picking sides and then helps Tyrion escape.

I got the impression that he made a one time exception to stick his neck out for someone. With Ned he really couldn't have helped him without implicating himself. And of course Ned's death led to an all out civil war, which played into Varys's plans. He liked and admired Ned, but he couldn't be saved. It's possible he did feel guilty about the situation though, which might have influenced his actions with Tyrion.

Tyrion feels like the only one Varys could truly call a friend. He's one of the few people who had aptitude for playing the game, but wasn't so completely obsessed with empowering himself that he would screw over the entire realm for a chance to wear the crown. This made him a valuable ally (although to Varys ally and pawn are probably closely related). The two conspired together on multiple occasions, and Varys even confided in Tyrion about his life's story. Whether it was personal feelings or he still had plans for him, Varys did not want Tyrion to die.

Luckily for him, unlike the Ned Stark situation, he would not have to raise suspicion on himself for helping. Jaimie would be the obvious culprit for helping Tyrion escape, and it would be difficult to prove who helped him. As long as he could be counted on not to sell Varys out, Varys would be relatively safe (though he would probably be suspected at least).

But when Tyrion shows up and Varys asks "What have you done?", and later when the alarm bells ring and he Nopes out of King's Landing, I got the impression that he was thinking "You've screwed me! The one time I risk myself to help someone else and it bites me on the ass!" With Tywin being discovered dead, the city would surely have gone into lockdown, and Varys would have had no way to justify what he was doing by the docks on the night Tyrion escaped, murdered Tywin, and fled the city. And while he might be able to lie his way out of it, Cercei is the type to pass judgement on feelings rather than evidence, so that would be way too much of a gamble.

He did seem at least sympathetic to Tyrion's situation, and will probably work with him when they get to Essos, but this clearly did not play into his plans. I really wonder how he can get back into the game now that he is a fugitive. The only thing I can think of is joining up with Dany, but Tyrion at least I don't see having much of a role in Dany's group (though he is equally out of options). I do hope the two end up doing something interesting next season.

Based on what do you say that Jaime is a bonehead? There is no evidence that he is stupid. Quite the contrary! He doesn´t care about power, and he can´t be bothered with it, true. But he is not at all stupid! He can be quite cunning and smart and a quick thinker when he wants!

Jamie is by no means dumb. Though he is far too easily manipulated by his sister's ladyparts. But this season at least he proved that he was not completely whipped, and that he could act against her wishes (saving Tyrion) if it was important to him.
 
what was everyones favorite scene of this season? there were so many great ones like joffreys death, and the mountain vs the viper. my personal favorite would be tyrions trail because damn that dude could act, its actually my favorite scene of the series so far. his facial expressions are just miles above any other actor working today.
 
*knowledge*

I am interested to see where they take Tyrion/Varys in the next season. As much as I enjoy Tyrion, his arc kind of ran it's course...I'm not sure where they can take it from here.

Sad there won't be more Bronn though. Really can't see them hooking up again.

what was everyones favorite scene of this season? there were so many great ones like joffreys death, and the mountain vs the viper. my personal favorite would be tyrions trail because damn that dude could act, its actually my favorite scene of the series so far. his facial expressions are just miles above any other actor working today.

Definetely the courtroom scene. Ep.9 would be a close 2nd. That courtroom scene was just awesome. With Oberyn casually questioning witnesses to Tyrion awesome-bombing everyone at the end with him monologue. Such an awesome scene.
 
This might be the best season of a TV show I've ever seen. It had so many big moments. A lot of people have suggested books 4 and 5 aren't nearly as interesting, but I'm hopeful the show can make something great out of them.

Have the writers stated if they intend to combine books 4 and 5 to make seasons 5/6 of the show? I've seen speculation that's how they'll handle it.
 

Garou

Member
what was everyones favorite scene of this season? there were so many great ones like joffreys death, and the mountain vs the viper. my personal favorite would be tyrions trail because damn that dude could act, its actually my favorite scene of the series so far. his facial expressions are just miles above any other actor working today.

oberyn+1.gif
 
what was everyones favorite scene of this season? there were so many great ones like joffreys death, and the mountain vs the viper. my personal favorite would be tyrions trail because damn that dude could act, its actually my favorite scene of the series so far. his facial expressions are just miles above any other actor working today.

For me it's the Purple Wedding. Such an amazingly well shot scene, extremely dense in character moments and was the catalyst for the Kings Landing arc.
 
For me it's the Purple Wedding. Such an amazingly well shot scene, extremely dense in character moments and was the catalyst for the Kings Landing arc.

ok im not as in the know with this show as a lot of you, have we come to a definitive answer as to who killed joffrey? was it margarys grandmother?
 

Servbot #42

Unconfirmed Member
Ugh kinda tempted to read you know what but no websites that offer free worldwide book delivery have the books compilation in stock. I could always go amazon but i have to pay a separate shipping fee since i live in chile. Maybe later when i get an actual job i can afford that expense.
 
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