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[Nameless]

It wasn't the cup. Because IIRC was Joffrey was the only one eating the cake?

And there was the dead pigeon inside the cake as well.

He puts the cup down when slicing the pie. The second time he drinks from it is what does him in.

I don't know, but I get the impression from the poison that it's the type that works instantly and violently. As soon as he drinks again he starts dying.

 

[Vashetti]

Dumb question, but who is the next king in line after Joffrey?

I imagine this will be dealt with in the next episode.

It's basically guaranteed to be the "Joffrey death aftermath hour" right?

 

[deli2000]

Dumb question, but who is the next king in line after Joffrey?

Tommen, his younger brother, he was the one that Tyrion gave the death stare to at the wedding.

 

[Linkhero1]

So I rewatched the episode, keeping in mind the whole Olenna/Sansa's necklace thing, and I don't think there can be any other interpretation: Olenna did it. It's all there on screen.

Analysis:

I finally caught up with the show. While I think this is a great analysis, I can't help but think of a scenario where Sansa didn't wear the necklace. I feel as if they are purposely pointing the finger at Olenna through those shots to throw us off. I don't know what she has to gain from all of this so it's hard for me to come to the conclusion that it was her.

 

[Vashetti]

I finally caught up with the show. While I think this is a great analysis, I can't help but think of a scenario where Sansa didn't wear the necklace. I feel as if they are purposely pointing the finger at Olenna through those shots to throw us off. I don't know what she has to gain from all of this so it's hard for me to come to the conclusion that it was her.

But we can see Olenna take the jewel and it's missing from Sansa's necklace for the rest of the episode.

Why would she take it otherwise?

And what does she have to gain? She doesn't want her granddaughter to become Joffrey's latest plaything. Cersei also threatened Margaery at Tyrion and Sansa's wedding to have her strangled in her sleep. It was time for the wretched boy to go.

 

[Violet_0]

It wasn't the cup. Because IIRC was Joffrey was the only one eating the cake?

And there was the dead pigeon inside the cake as well.

because he hit them with a sword

the poison was definitely in the necklace imo

 

[Nameless]

Also during the Red Wedding Rob tells Talisa that the bedding ceremony is the only way to really know if a marriage wss consummated, implying that is a requirement to make everything official. So Margaery likely won't even be able to keep the Queen Regent title until Tommen takes a bride.

But at the same time Sansa can also be wed to anyone the Tyrells choose.

 

[Linkhero1]

But we can see Olenna take the jewel and it's missing from Sansa's necklace for the rest of the episode.

Why would she take it otherwise?

Did she take it or was she fondling the necklace? If we go by Occam's Razor, it was definitely her. I just don't see the motive.

 

[Vashetti]

Did she take it or was she fondling the necklace? If we go by Occam's Razor, it was definitely her. I just don't see the motive.

Watch it back. She definitely takes it.

 

[The Horror the horror]

It wasn't the cup. Because IIRC was Joffrey was the only one eating the cake?

And there was the dead pigeon inside the cake as well.

It couldn't have been the cake. That entire cake would have had to been corrupted sufficiently to ensure the piece from which Joffrey ate delivered the poison. I don't think that would have been practical or cheap. Also, the cake is a shared treat and having it poisoned could trigger collateral deaths, whereas the cup was exclusive to the King's lips.

 

[Linkhero1]

Watch it back. She definitely takes it.

Will do on my lunch. Then it's definitely her if that's the case.

 

[Heshinsi]

It wasn't the cup. Because IIRC was Joffrey was the only one eating the cake?

And there was the dead pigeon inside the cake as well.

But the cake was served to a lot of other people. Just because we didn't see anyone else eat it on camera, doesn't mean no one did. If the cake was the method of poison delivery, than surely someone else would be dying from it.

 

[Nameless]

Will do on my lunch. Then it's definitely her if that's the case.

 

[Linkhero1]

Hot damn.

I wonder who else was involved in on this. It definitely wasn't her alone, but I assume she's the least suspicious. My guess is the Iron Bank is going to have a role in all of this.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Did the Simpsons invent the "yoink"? Is it a dictionary word? Because it should be.

 

[The Horror the horror]

My problem with the whole Olenna theory is that she could have just as easily delivered the poison herself without involving Sansa. So, the shamed knight gives Sansa a poison necklace, Sansa wears it, Olenna takes a piece, and then drops it into the cup? Why go through all these steps? It's not as if she was frisked prior to entering the event.

 

[Linkhero1]

My problem with the whole Olenna theory is that she could have just as easily delivered the poison herself without involving Sansa. So, the shamed knight gives Sansa a poison necklace, Sansa wears it, Olenna takes a piece, and then drops it into the cup? Why go through all these steps? It's not as if she was frisked prior to entering the event.

This is true. My issue with the theory is that there's a chance that Sansa chose not to wear the necklace. What would have Olenna done then?

 

[effzee]

My problem with the whole Olenna theory is that she could have just as easily delivered the poison herself without involving Sansa. So, the shamed knight gives Sansa a poison necklace, Sansa wears it, Olenna takes a piece, and then drops it into the cup? Why go through all these steps? It's not as if she was frisked prior to entering the event.

That's my only issue too but then again if this is how they explain it away, I doubt they will even bother explaining why she used Sansa.

My bigger issue will be if Tyrion is blamed and how or why anyone would buy that.

I hope this as captivating a mystery as Who Shot Mr. Burns was.

 

[ComputerBlue]

This is true. My issue with the theory is that there's a chance that Sansa chose not to wear the necklace. What would have Olenna done then?

This is a very good point which really makes the whole thing debatable.

But there has to be something to the necklace, it's obviously a main factor in all of this. From Sansa receiving it, to her wearing it (perhaps she thought what better a time to honor Sir Dontos than the day when so many people will be able to see it) She seems a genuinely good person who would make such a choice.

Also, as others have mentioned...Maybe a part of the trouble or the risk in will she wear it or not is that it might be used to frame Sansa.

 

[Linkhero1]

This is a very good point which really makes the whole thing debatable.

But there has to be something to the necklace, it's obviously a main factor in all of this. From Sansa receiving it, to her wearing it (perhaps she thought what better a time to honor Sir Dontos than the day when so many people will be able to see it) She seems a genuinely good person who would make such a choice.

Also, as others have mentioned...Maybe a part of the trouble or the risk in will she wear it or not is that it might be used to frame Sansa.

It could have been. I think she would have been easy to frame. No need for a motive considering that Jofferey openly treated her like shit and beheaded her father. My only problem is why would Ser whatshisface lead her away from the scene.

 

[Curufinwe]

Dumb question, but who is the next king in line after Joffrey?

This is taken from the GoT Wiki Lordship article:


In "The Wolf and the Lion" which was the fifth episode of season 1, Renly Baratheon and Loras Tyrell have a conversation in which they explicitly state that the royal line of succession after Robert is "Joffrey, Tommen, Stannis, Renly".

Tommen is next in line despite being younger than his sister Myrcella. And in "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" which was the fourth episode of season 1, Sansa Stark and Septa Mordane state that if Sansa only has female children with Joffrey, Joffrey's younger brother Tommen would be ahead of them in the line of succession. Under normal primogeniture laws with a common lord, a lord's daughters would inherit ahead of his younger brother.

 

[Cornballer]

Folks, just a quick reminder to please spoiler tag any preview discussion and be very careful if you're going to read wikis on the show. There's sometimes information on there from the books that isn't available on the show.

 

[Epix]

So..

Spoiler

In the previews for this week's episode Margaery says something like "...but I'm supposed to be the queen.."

Any chance that the marriage can be annulled due to the lack of consummation?

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

So it's a conspiracy.

 

[Curufinwe]

So..

Spoiler

In the previews for this week's episode Margaery says something like "...but I'm supposed to be the queen.."

Any chance that the marriage can be annulled due to the lack of consummation?

Spoiler

Tommen is next in line unless she is already pregnant by Joffrey and the baby is going to be a boy. The king she married is dead so she's no longer the queen.

 

[Dash27]

Wasnt the necklace from the former Knight turned Fool? So he's in on it and the Grandmother too? If so why do it that way rather than just smuggle it in... unless they are going to frame Sansa.

 

[SeanR1221]

I wonder if Tyrion will have another trial by combat and we'll get to watch Bronn kick some ass.

 

[ComputerBlue]

It could have been. I think she would have been easy to frame. No need for a motive considering that Jofferey openly treated her like shit and beheaded her father. My only problem is why would Ser whatshisface lead her away from the scene.

Sir Dontos, he might have led her away on purpose, is she was there right before Joffreys death and has suddenly disappeared it would make her look more suspicious in my opinion.

 

[kubus]

I wonder if Tyrion will have another trial by combat and we'll get to watch Bronn kick some ass.

Would be hilarious if they sent in Jamie.

 

[Linkhero1]

Sir Dontos, he might have led her away on purpose, is she was there right before Joffreys death and has suddenly disappeared it would make her look more suspicious in my opinion.

This is a good point. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[effzee]

So I wanted to clarify something from the previous seasons about what happens with Sam and the stuff beyond the wall.

When they get to the Fist of the First Men what exactly do they discover? If anything?

Or is it just significant because its a historical mark and reminder? I thought Sam said something important there because he knows how to read and is educated but don't remember what it was now.

 

[soul]

I think the necklace thing is irrelevant to the murder. If she wanted to poison the king, she would have done it herself, without the help of Sansa. I personally think the real killer is Cersei. That woman will do anything to keep Marjorie off the throne, and considering the horrible things that happened on this show already, I won't be surprised.

 

[gnrmjd]

Back in the day, being a cup bearer for your liege was a big honour. It was your job to guard the Kings cup against poison and sometimes taste the wine yourself just in case. Since you're the one who serves drinks to the King, you'd be around for almost all of his meetings and would hear quite a lot of sensitive information.

So to get the job, you'd have to be seen as very trustworthy and held in very high regard. Once you had the job, it had a lot of benefits.

Until you get poisoned at least

 

[Raiden]

I dont get the whole necklace jewel thing? Why is it so important? Did she put it in his drink and he choked on it?

 

[Antagon]

I think the necklace thing is irrelevant to the murder. If she wanted to poison the king, she would have done it herself, without the help of Sansa. I personally think the real killer is Cersei. That woman will do anything to keep Marjorie off the throne, and considering the horrible things that happened on this show already, I won't be surprised.

If that's the case, why didn't she just poison Margaery?

 

[Bisnic]

I dont get the whole necklace jewel thing? Why is it so important? Did she put it in his drink and he choked on it?

Poison in the jewel duh. Did you ever see someone choking and looking like Joffrey did?

 

[soul]

If that's the case, why didn't she poison Margaery herself?

I think she wants to kill her image before killing her in person. Slowly and surely. First step - throw away the food, take away her throne, and so on.

 

[Raiden]

Poison in the jewel duh. Did you ever see someone choking and looking like Joffrey did?

Thats why i was confused. But why would there be poison in a jewel? I guess i really need to pay more attention to things.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't know how anyone can watch the show and think Cersei would kill her own child. She'd sooner kill herself.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I don't know how anyone can watch the show and think Cersei would kill her own child. She'd sooner kill herself.

To be fair, she's the only character so far who has tried to poison one of her kids before.

Spoiler

j/k j/k

 

[soul]

I don't know how anyone can watch the show and think Cersei would kill her own child. She'd sooner kill herself.

Why not? She was ready to kill herself and others during the attack on the city.

 

[Bisnic]

Thats why i was confused. But why would there be poison in a jewel? I guess i really need to pay more attention to things.

Because nobody would suspect poison in a necklace's jewel.

Why not? She was ready to kill herself and others during the attack on the city.

That was a different situation. It was to avoid getting tortured, mutilated or raped. She would rather her and her child get a quick death than that.

 

[The Cowboy]

During the episode (especially towards the end) i was really excepting Tyrion to strait up kill Joffrey in a very open and brutal way, it really did seem like it was leading up to it where he would just snap, grab the Widow's Wail and carve himself a piece of king and make Margaery wail.

That would have been GLORIUS!!!.

 

[soul]

That was a different situation. It was to avoid getting tortured, mutilated or raped. She would rather her and her child get a quick death than that.

While that's true, Cersei is an extremely jealous character that would hate "lose" her former title for Margaery. So jealous, she would rather see her own son dead. I think the chat with Oberyn really set things into motion.

 

[Vashetti]

I think the necklace thing is irrelevant to the murder. If she wanted to poison the king, she would have done it herself, without the help of Sansa. I personally think the real killer is Cersei. That woman will do anything to keep Marjorie off the throne, and considering the horrible things that happened on this show already, I won't be surprised.

No way Cersei did it.

"Even Joffrey."

 

[Cirekiller]

Poison in the jewel duh. Did you ever see someone choking and looking like Joffrey did?

Yeah, I'm definitely behind the theory that the old lady had something to do with it, however, when did she have time to put it in his drink? He clearly dumps the entire content of it on Tyrions head AFTER she took the jewel from Sansas necklace. Tyrion even tastes some of it, commenting "a fine vintage" or something like that. So it clearly wasn't poisoned at that point.

Afterwards she had no access to it because it would be pretty hard to look inconspicuous walking up to the kings cup and dropping something in it while he is cutting the cake. Also it is clearly shown that she had not moved the entire time he is cutting the cake. The only one that touched the cup after it was spilled on Tyrion was Tyrion himself obviously, Sansa (who isn't really a suspect as the poisoned necklace piece was taken from her with her knowledge) and the new Queen (I'm still terrible with names on this show sorry ).

There is just no way that the poison was in the cup before it was spilled on Tyrion so everything afterwards is important.

 

[Vashetti]

"Look, the pie!"

 

[Epix]

Spoiler

Tommen is next in line unless she is already pregnant by Joffrey and the baby is going to be a boy. The king she married is dead so she's no longer the queen.

I'm referring to who is now Queen Regent.....

 

[Cirekiller]

"Look, the pie!"

Not sure if thats a response to my post or not, but when the "pie" came the cup was still in Tyrions hand so that could not have been used as a distraction.

Edit: On another watch, the only time it was possible to poison the drink is while the pie is being cut, and I guess the old lady had easy access to it. Not sure how they can explain how she moved 2-3 feet from her seat to Joffreys cup without anyone noticing though.

 

[Vashetti]

Not sure if thats a response to my post or not, but when the "pie" came the cup was still in Tyrions hand so that could not have been used as a distraction.

Err? Joffrey had the cup when the pie came. Which he then hands to Margaery, who then places it on the table nearby Olenna.