I can't understand how people watched this show and think Cersei would kill her son. It would be completely out of character.Cersei's reaction in last scene makes me think that she has a part in it somewhere. It looked like fake crying. May be Tywin and Cersei hatched this plan together ?
I can't understand how people watched this show and think Cersei would kill her son. It would be completely out of character.
There were a few scene between Joffery and Cersei in last 2 seasons where Cersei could see the power slipping from her hands. Not being able to control Joffery. Margery on other hand has a perfect grip on him. Tommen would be much more obedient in his place.
Think about it, they save the kingdom from another mad king in the making, and a huge embarrassment to their house. While securing power back to Lannisters, blaming the murder on Tyrion. Getting rid of all problems in one go.
There were a few scene between Joffery and Cersei in last 2 seasons where Cersei could see the power slipping from her hands. Not being able to control Joffery. Margery on other hand has a perfect grip on him. Tommen would be much more obedient in his place.
Think about it, they save the kingdom from another mad king in the making, and a huge embarrassment to their house. While securing power back to Lannisters, blaming the murder on Tyrion. Getting rid of all problems in one go.
I legitimately feel like I'm watching a different show to those who are suggesting Cersei did it.
There were a few scene between Joffery and Cersei in last 2 seasons where Cersei could see the power slipping from her hands. Not being able to control Joffery. Margery on other hand has a perfect grip on him. Tommen would be much more obedient in his place.
This is where I agree, I feel like we're watching a different show. If anything Cersei seems to feel betrayed by Jaime despite it not being his fault that he was captured. She's been through a lot while he's been gone and she's bitter about it. There's literally been nothing that suggests other than the fact that she is extremely loyal and devoted to her children. If anything, like someone else said, they are the only thing she is living for anymore.I think Cersei did it, just because none of the other suggestions make sense. She gets to remain the figurehead of the empire, and it's all she really cares about. Of course people would believe she cares deeply for her children, but people would have said the same about Jaime, and beyond taunting his new friend, she doesn't seem to give a shit, seemingly she's going to try and have her other brother put to death for this too. She's a sociopath.
It only makes sense if you can buy into Cersei's lust for power overruling her protective (and often submissive) nature towards her children. And I don't think there's much evidence to support the latter. Cersei finds other ways to please herself, usually by fucking people over. We see it in that same episode. When Margaery announces the leftovers will go to the poor Cersei forces the alternative behind her back, and right after giving the order has a little smile to herself. Tywin notices this, and she said she's enjoying the little things.
Cersei isn't the kind to kill her son. She's more likely to routinely fuck Margaery to protect both him and her.
I think Cersei did it, just because none of the other suggestions make sense. She gets to remain the figurehead of the empire, and it's all she really cares about. Of course people would believe she cares deeply for her children, but people would have said the same about Jaime, and beyond taunting his new friend, she doesn't seem to give a shit, seemingly she's going to try and have her other brother put to death for this too. She's a sociopath.
Because what does Olenna get out of it? The marriage wasn't consummated, her granddaughter gets nothing.I don't see how Cersei killing Joffrey makes any more sense than Olenna. It's ridiculous imo.
She didn't want her granddaughter marrying a sociopath who tortures and beats women?Because what does Olenna get out of it? The marriage wasn't consummated, her daughter gets nothing.
And murdering him is how to achieve that? Not just not arranging the wedding to begin with?She didn't want her granddaughter marrying a sociopath who tortures and beats women?
Because what does Olenna get out of it? The marriage wasn't consummated, her granddaughter gets nothing.
She didn't want her granddaughter marrying a sociopath who tortures and beats women?
No she wouldn't have been queen then. Unless they had a son then she would be queen regent until he came to age.And murdering him is how to achieve that? Not just not arranging the wedding to begin with?
She could have killed him the morning after and her granddaughter would have been Queen, why wait until the very moment when she has to have spent the most amount of time with him without gaining anything?
Because what does Olenna get out of it? The marriage wasn't consummated, her granddaughter gets nothing.
Who's the heir apparent? I know he has siblings, but they don't seem to factor into the show much.No she wouldn't have been queen then. Unless they had a son then she would be queen regent until he came to age.
Succession doesn't work that way and she didn't know Joffrey was a sociopath until the wedding was agreed to.
Because the show made a big deal about it last season with Sansa probably.The marriage being consumated or not is completely irrelevant unless Margaery got pregnant with Joffrey's son. I don't know why people keep bringing it up.
Tommen is next in line after Joffrey.Who's the heir apparent? I know he has siblings, but they don't seem to factor into the show much.
Because the show made a big deal about it last season with Sansa probably.
Fuck it, I'm just going to read who did it. I won't post it of course.
Regents are stand-ins for young kings or queens. Cersei was regent because her son was the king. Margaery has no direct relation to Tommen.
Was it just me, or was she kinda smirking as he died though? That's what I felt happened when she was shouting for help.. I probably read her face wrong though.
Cersei is always smirking in every scene
Cersei is always smirking in every scene
This. She's a bitch.
Cersei didn't do it. Why the fuck would she do it? She needs the little bastard alive and on the throne. I think it was just a random act of God. God finally got sick of Joffery.
No she wouldn't have been queen then. Unless they had a son then she would be queen regent until he came to age.
Succession doesn't work that way and she didn't know Joffrey was a sociopath until the wedding was agreed to.
I don't see the Tyrells going against the "Baratheons"/Lannisters. I can definitely see Olenna demanding that Margaery be able to marry Tommen in order to secure the alliance, but I don't see her trying to forcibly take the throne for the Tyrells. That would be extremely messy.Kings landing is fed by the tyrells. She will become queen. The initial plan might have been different, but joeffreys madness made this option the best alternative for olenna to put margaery in power without being raped by that little bastard. She is the Queen, the people love her. Question is how quick olenna can secure this position before tywin makes his move.
I don't see the Tyrells going against the "Baratheons"/Lannisters. I can definitely see Olenna demanding that Margaery be able to marry Tommen in order to secure the alliance, but I don't see her trying to forcibly take the throne for the Tyrells. That would be extremely messy.
They both want the alliance. That's why they agreed on it in the first place. That's not gonna change unless it's discovered that Olenna or whoever had a hand in Joffrey's death.What would be messier is for the Lannisters to deprive the Tyrells of a share in power. We have to remember that the Tyrells sacrificed A LOT in the war of the 5 kings, from investing in Renly Baratheon's doomed war campaign to saving the Lannisters from Stannis Baratheon's assault of Kings Landing.
Cersei didn't do it. Why the fuck would she do it? She needs the little bastard alive and on the throne. I think it was just a random act of God. God finally got sick of Joffery.
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who doesn't buy the Red God shit for one second. Melisandre just screams "fraud" to me. She definitely has some supernatural powers, but I feel like the religion itself is just a front to brainwash people. I mean they're even burning their own people and even relatives now for not denouncing the old gods.Act of Red God you mean. Red priestess put 3 leeches in fire for 3 usurpers.
If Balon Greyjoy also bites dust somehow then it confirms that the Red God is a serious force to be reckoned with.
Kings landing is fed by the tyrells. She will become queen. The initial plan might have been different, but joeffreys madness made this option the best alternative for olenna to put margaery in power without being raped by that little bastard. She is the Queen, the people love her. Question is how quick olenna can secure this position before tywin makes his move.
She can't be Queen Regent. She could have been if she had married Joffrey and had a son, then she would have been Queen Regent until her son came of age. Since they bore no child she has no claim, the only way to seal the alliance now is to marry her to Tommen who is the next in line of succession.I don't fully understand the succession thing, but given the situation isn't Margaery queen regent and Tommen king? Though they're not married, so Tommen can then technically marry someone else who would then become queen. Similar to the path of Cersei to Margaery.
She seems like a fraud, but Thoros of Myr isn't.
The only way she can become Queen is by marrying Tommen. I don't see why Tywin would be opposed to that.
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who doesn't buy the Red God shit for one second. Melisandre just screams "fraud" to me. She definitely has some supernatural powers, but I feel like the religion itself is just a front to brainwash people. I mean they're even burning their own people and even relatives now for not denouncing the old gods.
But he's already of age and has already taken the throne, and she's still Queen, or she was until the wedding, we'll see next week I guess.Cersei was Queen Regent because Joffrey was her son.
She can't be Queen Regent. She could have been if she had married Joffrey and had a son, then she would have been Queen Regent until her son came of age. Since they bore no child she has no claim, the only way to seal the alliance now is to marry her to Tommen who is the next in line of succession.
Cersei was Queen Regent because Joffrey was her son.
A fraud? Did you guys forget the shadow baby in season 2?She seems like a fraud, but Thoros of Myr isn't.
She was Queen Regent because Robert died and Joffrey was too young to rule. If Joffrey was old enough to rule he would have taken over the throne immediately.I thought Cersei was made Queen Regent because she was the legitimate Queen while King Robert was still alive, his death, not specifically Joffrey's ascension, thus giving her a "Former-queen-now-without-a-King" status.
Tommen is definitely the same as Joffrey, he's Jaime's son. Blonde hair.I guess the showrunners could've done the whole necklace thing as a red herring, which would be utterly stupid and lame to capture those moments on film and just ignore it. I don't think so, though. As far as Olenna not having the opportunity, I can't point to an exact moment, but if you've ever watched Brain Games on National Geographic, it's very easy to not see something due to your field of vision being altered by focus. I hope we find out sooner, rather than later who actually did it.
As for Tommen, isn't he a legit Baratheon? Is Robert his true father? If so, he actually does have a legit claim to the thrown now, along with all of Robert's other bastard kids who are still alive, I suppose.
No I didn't, I said she had some kind of power. I said she's using the religion to manipulate Stannis.A fraud? Did you guys forget the shadow baby in season 2?
But why did she retain her Queen title once he became King?She was Queen Regent because Robert died and Joffrey was too young to rule. If Joffrey was old enough to rule he would have taken over the throne immediately.