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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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I can't understand how people watched this show and think Cersei would kill her son. It would be completely out of character.
Amey
Member
There were a few scene between Joffery and Cersei in last 2 seasons where Cersei could see the power slipping from her hands. Not being able to control Joffery. Margery on other hand has a perfect grip on him. Tommen would be much more obedient in his place.
Think about it, they save the kingdom from another mad king in the making, and a huge embarrassment to their house. While securing power back to Lannisters, blaming the murder on Tyrion. Getting rid of all problems in one go.
Cersei's children are the reason she hasn't killed herself yet.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Cersei was willing to poison Tommen to prevent him falling into the enemy if Kings Landing was to fall. She flipped shit when Myrcella was sent off. And throughout season one she pandered to Joffrey's irrational behaviour with "lol it's cool cos one day you will be king". She routinely undermines and threatens anybody who rubs her the wrong way, including the real father of her children. I don't think she has the character to kill Joffrey. She's manipulative and power hungry, but that would be a tact of pure self interest at the expense of her own flesh and blood. Her children are like the only thing she has absolute, unyielding, irrational loyalty to. Joffrey could maim and kill anyone he pleases and she wouldn't give a fuck.
If she really feared his or her situation she'd be first to make someone like Margery disappear. Not Joffrey.
If she really feared his or her situation she'd be first to make someone like Margery disappear. Not Joffrey.
Interceptor
Banned
It's her son.
Killing a lannister King is an embarrassment.
Tywin would never kill a lannister.
Tywin is in power.
It's her son.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It only makes sense if you can buy into Cersei's lust for power overruling her protective (and often submissive) nature towards her children. And I don't think there's much evidence to support the latter. Cersei finds other ways to please herself, usually by fucking people over. We see it in that same episode. When Margaery announces the leftovers will go to the poor Cersei forces the alternative behind her back, and right after giving the order has a little smile to herself. Tywin notices this, and she said she's enjoying the little things.
Cersei isn't the kind to kill her son. She's more likely to routinely fuck Margaery to protect both him and her.
It's not just about power in and out of itself, though.
She clearly has a beef with anyone in that family that isn't Jamie, because of how they treated her, and because of her inability to live her relationship with Jamie freely.
I think the King being the child she had with Jamie was a big part of the mental process that brought her to be as delusional as she was about Joffrey.
She is never shown as having a friendly or even neutral relationship with anyone BUT her brother and children, so i think it's fair to assume she isn't interested in control itself, but in seeing her children in positions of power.
She clearly has no interest in how well Joffrey can rule, nor she seems to have any interest in what happens to the 7 kingdoms, beyond having one of her own in control.
I mean she is completely delusional about Joffrey, there is no way she would've killed him to assume more direct control.
I think Cersei did it, just because none of the other suggestions make sense. She gets to remain the figurehead of the empire, and it's all she really cares about. Of course people would believe she cares deeply for her children, but people would have said the same about Jaime, and beyond taunting his new friend, she doesn't seem to give a shit, seemingly she's going to try and have her other brother put to death for this too. She's a sociopath.
This is where I agree, I feel like we're watching a different show. If anything Cersei seems to feel betrayed by Jaime despite it not being his fault that he was captured. She's been through a lot while he's been gone and she's bitter about it. There's literally been nothing that suggests other than the fact that she is extremely loyal and devoted to her children. If anything, like someone else said, they are the only thing she is living for anymore.
She's always hated Tyrion so that's a moot point.
I don't see how Cersei killing Joffrey makes any more sense than Olenna. It's ridiculous imo.
Absolutely.
I think she's shown as a character that has been "beaten" into submission so many times, her whole life, that is now simply part of her character, which led her to a crazy amount of bitterness.
I think subconsciously she simply cannot see herself in a position of power, even though she struggles constantly to obtain it, and the power-by-proxy she gets to experience through her son, isn't part of a scheme to obtain ultimate control, but the result of a psychological instinct, to project Joffrey's freedom of agency unto herself, without actually having to be in that position (again, subconsciously).
She's jealous.
Because what does Olenna get out of it? The marriage wasn't consummated, her granddaughter gets nothing.
She didn't want her granddaughter marrying a sociopath who tortures and beats women?
And murdering him is how to achieve that? Not just not arranging the wedding to begin with?
She could have killed him the morning after and her granddaughter would have been Queen, why wait until the very moment when she has to have spent the most amount of time with him without gaining anything?
Didn't want her granddaughter to become Joffrey's latest pet
Cersei threatened to have Margaery strangled in her sleep
Tywin threatened to assign Loras to the Kingsguard, effectively ending the line of Tyrell succession as he is the only son and heir to Highgarden
So she took out Joffrey.
Nameless
Member
It also delays Loris' marriage to Cersei indefinitely. Two birds. Three if you count wrangling Sansa away from the Lannisters.
No she wouldn't have been queen then. Unless they had a son then she would be queen regent until he came to age.
Succession doesn't work that way and she didn't know Joffrey was a sociopath until the wedding was agreed to.
The marriage being consumated or not is completely irrelevant unless Margaery got pregnant with Joffrey's son. I don't know why people keep bringing it up.
And he never seemed all that interested in having sex with women, just torturing them. There was an air of he doth protest too much whenever he talked about how disgusting Renly was.
Who's the heir apparent? I know he has siblings, but they don't seem to factor into the show much.
Because the show made a big deal about it last season with Sansa probably.
Fuck it, I'm just going to read who did it. I won't post it of course.
Tommen is next in line after Joffrey.
Sansa is the key to the north with Robb Stark dead and Bran and Rickon presumed dead. If Tyrion got her pregnant then their half-Lannister child would be the future Lord of Winterfell. This why Tywin and the show made such a big deal of getting her pregnant. Tywin didn't just want Tyrion to have sex with her for fun.
It's probably best if you stop posting in here at all and just post in the book thread if you are going to spoil big parts of the show for yourself.
It's probably best if you stop posting in here at all and just post in the book thread if you are going to spoil big parts of the show for yourself.
Facism
Member
Change the kfc to Cnt lol
lastplayed
Member
Also anyone who can't rule for whatever reason. One famous example is Britain's Prince Regent, who ruled in his father's place (George III) while he was suffering bouts of madness.
Cersei is always smirking in every scene
Portugeezer
Member
This. She's a bitch.
AlimNassor
Banned
Cersei didn't do it. Why the fuck would she do it? She needs the little bastard alive and on the throne. I think it was just a random act of God. God finally got sick of Joffery.
For a moment i thought he was just choking on the cake for real.
Need the gif of where she looks joyful as fuck and says "Get. Out."
Interceptor
Banned
Kings landing is fed by the tyrells. She will become queen. The initial plan might have been different, but joeffreys madness made this option the best alternative for olenna to put margaery in power without being raped by that little bastard. She is the Queen, the people love her. Question is how quick olenna can secure this position before tywin makes his move.
I don't see the Tyrells going against the "Baratheons"/Lannisters. I can definitely see Olenna demanding that Margaery be able to marry Tommen in order to secure the alliance, but I don't see her trying to forcibly take the throne for the Tyrells. That would be extremely messy.
The Horror the horror
Banned
What would be messier is for the Lannisters to deprive the Tyrells of a share in power. We have to remember that the Tyrells sacrificed A LOT in the war of the 5 kings, from investing in Renly Baratheon's doomed war campaign to saving the Lannisters from Stannis Baratheon's assault of Kings Landing.
Cornballer
Member
Just a reminder that there's no TV show / book comparisons in this thread. Book readers should use the other thread. Please read the OP. Thank you.
They both want the alliance. That's why they agreed on it in the first place. That's not gonna change unless it's discovered that Olenna or whoever had a hand in Joffrey's death.
Amey
Member
Act of Red God you mean. Red priestess put 3 leeches in fire for 3 usurpers.
If Balon Greyjoy also bites dust somehow then it confirms that the Red God is a serious force to be reckoned with.
Please don't tell me I'm the only one who doesn't buy the Red God shit for one second. Melisandre just screams "fraud" to me. She definitely has some supernatural powers, but I feel like the religion itself is just a front to brainwash people. I mean they're even burning their own people and even relatives now for not denouncing the old gods.
She seems like a fraud, but Thoros of Myr isn't.
The only way she can become Queen is by marrying Tommen. I don't see why Tywin would be opposed to that.
The only way she can become Queen is by marrying Tommen. I don't see why Tywin would be opposed to that.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I don't fully understand the succession thing, but given the situation isn't Margaery queen regent and Tommen king? Though they're not married, so Tommen can then technically marry someone else who would then become queen. Similar to the path of Cersei to Margaery.
She can't be Queen Regent. She could have been if she had married Joffrey and had a son, then she would have been Queen Regent until her son came of age. Since they bore no child she has no claim, the only way to seal the alliance now is to marry her to Tommen who is the next in line of succession.
Cersei was Queen Regent because Joffrey was her son.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
poor marge, every king she marries died. though i think tommen is more manageable than joff, but not sure ... with her reputation... if anyone would like to take up that hand anymore now
:<
Nameless
Member
We've seen the Lord of Light's power outside of Melisandre. Resurrecting Beric x6, blood turning to fire, Varys hearing a voice responding to the Red Priest who cut him, the Prophecy from the Red God's holy book successfully predicting the comet & White Walkers, etc..
It could very well be some demon or long dead witch or warlock masquerading as a god, but its influence is undeniable.
But he's already of age and has already taken the throne, and she's still Queen, or she was until the wedding, we'll see next week I guess.
I don't know about Fire and Ice world, but in the English system for example, Queen Consort's are only the King's spouse, not mother. You can't have a King and Queen who aren't married.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I thought Cersei was made queen regent because she was the legitimate queen while King Robert was still alive, his death, not specifically Joffrey's ascension, thus giving her a "Former-queen-now-without-a-King" status. Being the mother to a king in waiting isn't what made her the queen regent, being the widow of the King did, right?
I guess the showrunners could've done the whole necklace thing as a red herring, which would be utterly stupid and lame to capture those moments on film and just ignore it. I don't think so, though. As far as Olenna not having the opportunity, I can't point to an exact moment, but if you've ever watched Brain Games on National Geographic, it's very easy to not see something due to your field of vision being altered by focus. I hope we find out sooner, rather than later who actually did it.
As for Tommen, isn't he a legit Baratheon? Is Robert his true father? If so, he actually does have a legit claim to the thrown now, along with all of Robert's other bastard kids who are still alive, I suppose.
As for Tommen, isn't he a legit Baratheon? Is Robert his true father? If so, he actually does have a legit claim to the thrown now, along with all of Robert's other bastard kids who are still alive, I suppose.
Atraveller
Banned
A fraud? Did you guys forget the shadow baby in season 2?
She was Queen Regent because Robert died and Joffrey was too young to rule. If Joffrey was old enough to rule he would have taken over the throne immediately.
Tommen is definitely the same as Joffrey, he's Jaime's son. Blonde hair.
No I didn't, I said she had some kind of power. I said she's using the religion to manipulate Stannis.
But why did she retain her Queen title once he became King?
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