The Horror the horror
Banned
Then why don't you suspect that it's Margaery?
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Then why don't you suspect that it's Margaery?
Because she wants to be the Queen?
CitizenVectron
Member
No, Tyrion had the goblet in his hand, reaching out to hand it to Joffrey who was demanding he kneel. When the pie came, Joffrey then snatched the cup away quickly, (I remember this because I thought "realistically, some wine would have spilled") and walked away from Tyrion.
The Horror the horror
Banned
And Olenna doesn't want that same thing for her grand-daughter?
Cirekiller
Member
I was talking about the specific moment she shouted "look the pie" and all heads turned to look at the pie, Tyrion was still holding on to it. But like I said in my edit, the cup was easily accessible while he was cutting the pie.
Edit: Also, I know it was a heat of the moment (as well as angry mother) accusation, but I imagine how anyone can blame Tyrion for killing Joffrey, obviouosly he would be the first person you would accuse, but everyone could clearly see everything he was doing with the cup, and he clearly just poured what was in the jug into the cup. He had no way of adding anything else as he had both royal families watching his every move as well the king himself. Of course, I doubt he will be getting a "fair trial" by any stretch of imagination in the coming episodes. Pls George don't have Joffreys last victim be his uncle
Cersei is closest to being Queen since her son Tommen is the new king.
CitizenVectron
Member
Except succession dictates that Tommen would now be King. Cersei could be appointed Queen-regent again, though. Cersei can never be the true Queen again though since Robert is dead. Unless she gets even more incesty and marries her son Tommon.
Yes, Cersei could be Queen Regent but Margaery is nothing now.
Rogue Agent
Banned
I think that's where they found the dragonglass, which is apparently supposed to be rare.
Also, doesn't he use one of those daggers to kill a white walker?
Cirekiller
Member
I think you might be wrong. This is clearly a power play by Margaery's grandmother(?). She would not be doing this if it meant that Margaery loses everything, she has nothing to gain from that. However I think that there will be at least a power struggle if Margaery doesn't become Queen Regent outright. With all the "help the poor" and "be good to the people" Margaery will clearly have the public support of the people of the city if not all the kingdoms. It would make very little sense to show all those scenes where she goes and visits the poor and stuff if she suddenly is just out of the picture. Not to mention the scene where her and Joffrey go out and greet the crowd and everyone is cheering for her instead of him.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I thought the Lannister/Tyrell alliance to ward off Stannis was contingent upon the agreement to merge the two houses? It would break the alliance if the Lannisters were to deprive Margaery the queen's crown.
Cirekiller
Member
Good point, though I think in a convo between Grandma and Tywin the alliance is primarily for dat cold hard cash more than anything else (thought that's important in stopping Stannis as well)
Cirekiller
Member
http://youtu.be/zAjb1_6H9Bo?t=3m47s
I don't think the people in the crowd would be very happy if Margarey gets ousted for another Lannister, she is technically the Queen now. I'm not saying she will just assume command, but I have a strong feeling there will be a succession crisis in the next few episodes. The Tyrell's with popular support, and the Lannisters with a weak claim to the throne, but a claim nonetheless.
Edit: And by weak claim I mean that the Tommen would still to have a regent as he is too younng to rule.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards the necklace thing being a red herring, or at least not relevant to the murder plot. If Olenna needed to conceal the poison se could have done it by herself, or at least through less convoluted means instead of relying on Sansa to be wearing the right necklace at the right place at the right time.
Although, it would be hilarious if it was meant to be part of a separate murder plot; She steals the jewel, and then has someone murder Joffrey in a more private setting leaving the jewel somewhere leaving the body. Then when they discover the jewel she'll be all "Why I saw young Sansa Stark wearing a necklace with that very same jewel! Search the necklace, if it's missing a jewel then we've surely found the culprit!"
Only none of that happened since someone beat her to the punch.
Although, it would be hilarious if it was meant to be part of a separate murder plot; She steals the jewel, and then has someone murder Joffrey in a more private setting leaving the jewel somewhere leaving the body. Then when they discover the jewel she'll be all "Why I saw young Sansa Stark wearing a necklace with that very same jewel! Search the necklace, if it's missing a jewel then we've surely found the culprit!"
Only none of that happened since someone beat her to the punch.
No one would ever believe that Sansa Stark came up with a plan to kill Joffrey. Even Sansa wouldn't believe it.
Intheflorsh
Banned
I don't think the Tyrells are cold blooded enough to throw an innocent like Sansa under the bus.
CitizenVectron
Member
Exactly. I suppose she would have some preferential status as former-kind-of-queen. But no power.
Nameless
Member
But it would be like 5 years at the earliest before he could get a piece of that.
Too bad Myrcella got shipped off, they could have gone the Targaryen route and kept the royal line pure.
Cirekiller
Member
Rogue Agent
Banned
Yes, he does
It looks like Dragonglass is their weakness. But it's rare. At least, I hope it is.Tywin Lannister was demanding that 14 year old Sansa get fucked by the much older Tyrion, so I don't think he'd mind if Tommen got started early with Margery. I think he's supposed to be about 12. It's not unrealistic at all, sadly.
Nameless
Member
Tywin Lannister was demanding that 14 year old Sansa get fucked by the much older Tyrion, so I don't think he'd mind if Tommen got started early with Margery. I think he's supposed to be about 12. It's not unrealistic at all, sadly.
Hmmm, It's hard to tell with the new actor, but I thought Tommen was 9 or 10.
Why wouldn't Maegery remain the Queen as Queen Regent until the point that Tommen marries? Cersei remain Queen Regent after her husband passed and Joffery became King, until the point that he remmaried. I think it would be extremely strange if Cersei were to be reappointed Queen Regent.
Nameless
Member
This was my initial line of thinking but the marriage wasn't consummated.
When Robert died Cersei was the mother of the young, unmarried King and she became Queen Regent. Now Joffrey is dead and Cersei is once again the mother of a young, unmarried King.
Margaery isn't anything right now. She was Queen only while Joffrey was King. Even if they had consumated the marriage she would have needed to produce a son for Tommen not to be the new king.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Regents are stand-ins for young kings or queens. Cersei was regent because her son was the king. Margaery has no direct relation to Tommen.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
yay finally we are talking about the "what if sansa didnt wear the necklace to the wedding"... which had bothered me somewhat in the Olenna-did-it theory
i agree with odiin, it might be a red herring !
rewatching the wedding now, i do see that the camera puts emphasis on Olenna, though. hmm
On another note, when Joff was being such a shithead to Tyrion, I wanted Tyrion to just kill him !!
#teamimp
i agree with odiin, it might be a red herring !
rewatching the wedding now, i do see that the camera puts emphasis on Olenna, though. hmm
On another note, when Joff was being such a shithead to Tyrion, I wanted Tyrion to just kill him !!
#teamimp
Romars202129
Member
I thought that dead pigeon was supposed to be the smoking gun for the poison pie [And I also originally thought Jofre[however that's spelt] just hit it with the sword, so no need to remind me]
Anyways, I'm kinda dissappointed. I was far past hating the character, personally, for the last couple arcs I was just wondering how far they'd let him go, heel-wise, and was even secretly hoping they even tried for a face turn, lol.
But without him, I feel a bit lost on where this is going. Jofre was a great badguy. Without him, and without Rob or Ned, this show feels like it's missing both the hero and the villian, four acts in. Snow's fine for the hero part, but I'm groaning inwardly at the thought of the 'evil snowmen from beyond the wall' filling in the villian part.
But I'm a pessimist so don't mind me.
I will remark, it seems a slam dunk Tommis will be king, common sense wise, but I'd like to point out they have not characterized that kid one iota. Him turning into a main character from straight out of the background makes zero sense to me.
Anyways, I'm kinda dissappointed. I was far past hating the character, personally, for the last couple arcs I was just wondering how far they'd let him go, heel-wise, and was even secretly hoping they even tried for a face turn, lol.
But without him, I feel a bit lost on where this is going. Jofre was a great badguy. Without him, and without Rob or Ned, this show feels like it's missing both the hero and the villian, four acts in. Snow's fine for the hero part, but I'm groaning inwardly at the thought of the 'evil snowmen from beyond the wall' filling in the villian part.
But I'm a pessimist so don't mind me.
I will remark, it seems a slam dunk Tommis will be king, common sense wise, but I'd like to point out they have not characterized that kid one iota. Him turning into a main character from straight out of the background makes zero sense to me.
Yekshemesh
Member
So I was checking out the ending song to s4:e2, "The Rain of Castamere" by Sigur Rós... it's so haunting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3QW8PVyyNM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3QW8PVyyNM
Everything Sigur Ros is everything
lol that's hilarious.
Was it just me, or was she kinda smirking as he died though? That's what I felt happened when she was shouting for help.. I probably read her face wrong though.
The cake is a lie
Intheflorsh
Banned
Maybe the poison came from the fork Margaery stuck in Joffery's mouth, who knows? I'm more curious about who did it.
Didn't say she wasn't in on it. She may be disappointed, but she may have adhered to her grandmothers advice.
The cup was just to justify Cersei's reaction in thinking it was Tyrion's doing.
Anyway that's what i assumed when watching the show.
Chuckie
Member
Chikens?
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