Nameless
Member
Drinking poison, visions coming to pass, shadow baby, telling Methos about his death, knowing exactly where Gendry was, usurper curse. Her motives likely extend beyond what she's led Stannis to believe, but she's is legit.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Drinking poison, visions coming to pass, shadow baby, telling Methos about his death, knowing exactly where Gendry was, usurper curse. Her motives likely extend beyond what she's led Stannis to believe, but she's is legit.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Because there was still no Queen. She lost the title once the marriage was official, as that Dorne prince smugly pointed out to her.
But she wasn't Queen Regent, surely? That would mean she was officially in-charge, but she wasn't.
The Horror the horror
Banned
She was in charge, but that was before Tywin Lannister returned to Kings Landing and essentially cut her off from making any real decisions.
I just mean officially within the legal rules of succession and position within their royal family.
Tywin is basically ruling, and he was before Joffrey became King too, but what I mean is, was Cersei Queen Regent until Joffrey became King, then she became Queen Consort until the wedding, now she's not Queen at all presumably, is that right?
Cersei would be Queen Regent again because Joffrey is dead and next in line is Tommen who is too young to rule.
Chuckie
Member
Tywins rule is not official. He is 'merely' Hand of the King (But we all know he does in fact rule)
Cersei was Queen Consort when married to Robert, became Queen Regent when he died (and Joffrey wasn't of age) When Joffrey came of age Cersei became Queen Dowager. With Joffrey dead, she is Queen Regent again.
This is the bit I'm not getting, no one did that. Logically I would have thought that's what should have happened, but I don't think it did, they even talked about her only just losing her Queen-ship because of the wedding in the last episode.
Chuckie
Member
I edited it. In Holland an ex-queen is a princess again..but appearantly there is also the title Queen Dowager...who is a widow of a king. (also named queen mother)
Edit again: yeah her 'losing' her queen-ship because of Margery does not make sense at all. She lost that when Joffrey came of age.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Cersei was Queen Regent from the point of King Robert's death to King Joffrey's marriage to Margaery Tyrell. She was calling all the shots after the death of King Robert, but because her son, Joffrey, was an uncontrollable lunatic who said "Fuck all this waiting until I come of age bullshit," she had to yield some of that power to him. For example, Cersei, as Queen Regent, orchestrated the imprisonment of Ned Stark; she "retired" Barristan Selmy as captain of the Kingsguard; she received full credit for the defense of Kings Landing against Stannis (when it was Tyrion that deserved it). Once Tywin Lannister returned to Kings Landing, her portion of the power as Queen Regent shrunk significantly, as now the throne's power was split 3 ways, with a majority of it going to her father.
In the scene where Tywin Lannister was instructing his children to marry Sansa Stark and Ser Loras, Cersei said, "I am Queen Regent, not some broodmare."
You're talking about the practical model of power within the family, I'm talking about just the legal designation of Cersei.
It doesn't matter what her practical role within the Kingdom is in regards to her title, or at least it shouldn't.
I don't see why the marriage is what removed her being Queen (or what would have had he not died). Joffrey's ascension to the throne should have done it.
Atraveller
Banned
Mannis is not so easily manipulated, he only does things she said to shut her up, and only when it does not violate his principles.
Chuckie
Member
I think you are right.
Before Roberts death: Queen Consort
After Roberts death: Queen Regent
When Joffrey came of age: Queen Dowager
She already lost the Queen Regent title. The only thing I wonder is what are the titles now?
I think Tommen is King, Cersei is Queen Regent again and Margaery is Queen Dowager, unless it doesn't count at all because the marriage wasn't consumated.
Also I don't think Cersei was worried about titles when Margaery married Joffrey but rather worried about the influence she had on him. She was in power (by controlling Joff) and saw that another woman had such power over him.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I don't think Joffrey came of age, so he wasn't officially the king, more like king-in-waiting which necessitated Cersei's queen regent status. Remember, King Robert left Ned with the responsibility to take over as interim ruler until Joffrey came of age. When Cersei ripped the notice and declared Joffrey the lawful king, she not only removed Ned from the equation but her action would also inadvertently undermine her own authority as queen regent, since Joffrey's premature ascension to king precluded the need to have a queen regent. The problem is, she never recognized the demotion., as made evident by the fact that she referred to herself as queen regent even after Joffrey's ascension.
Oh, so the wedding was actually just aligned to the date of the beginning of his real reign as King, so it wasn't the wedding that ended her time as Queen Regent (or would have), it was the date because he was about to take over for real.
That would make sense if that's the case, thanks.
Liquidsnake
Banned
It will be interesting to see if Joff's death brings joy to any of the remaining Starks, or if they will be un-phased by it, as if it is just a small pebble in a larger problem.
Chuckie
Member
While this is a good point (and could very well be true) it does not change her status either.
If he became king when she ripped up the notice, she instantly became Queen Dowager instead of Queen Regent. Him marrying Margaery does not change her status at all.
So in the end (in my opinion) it doesn't matter to Cersei what her legal title is, but rather the unofficial (and real) influence that would naturally be transfered from her to Margaery because of the wedding. After the wedding her legal status would still be exactly the same...the difference would be her son would have a woman in his bed, whispering to him every night.
Nameless
Member
It'll be bitter sweet for Arya. She wanted to be the one to kill him.
Well assuming the necklace thing is legit, then Sansa indirectly got her revenge on him.
The Horror the horror
Banned
The problem is we don't even know if Martin or the writers even recognize the title to begin with, or if it's a simple matter of Cersei preferring to be referred to as one rather than the other since a Queen Regent is commonly perceived as a matriarch ruler by her own right, which Cersei isn't.
I don't think the title means as much as the influence either she or Margery has over the people. I'm sure there are a lot of people in King's Landing who see Margery as Queen now regardless because of the stuff she did for the poor, but Cersei has a lot of power over the knights still I'm guessing.
Steelyuhas
Member
Death poster for "The Lion and the Rose"
She's not built for the real world like Arya though. Her whole life she's been sheltered and basically raised to be Queen. I would liketo see her out of King's Landing though I agree.
I think she is in the most compelling situation honestly. I like the political intrigue stuff way more than the dragons and fighting... or walking around in the desert.
Liquidsnake
Banned
If she does find her way out I really wonder what would be next for her.
Death poster for "The Lion and the Rose"
I guess that kills the whole "it was the pie" idea.
The thing with Sansa is there doesn't seem to be a group she can be attached to, unless multiple people leave at the same time, I'm surprised they didn't have her leave with Shae actually.
EDIT: They being the writers, not the characters, as in delay Shae's exit and have her sneak away with her.
EDIT: They being the writers, not the characters, as in delay Shae's exit and have her sneak away with her.
come on, anyone who thought it was the pie is not paying attention. everyone there had a piece of the pie. he was the only one who drank from the cup.
Poisoning the pie wouldn't make sense unless you want to kill off everyone who might grab a slice. I don't think it was every a valid theory considering Joff was specifically targeted.
The political stuff is great, but Sansa has no influence there either.
Steelyuhas
Member
For what it's worth, Robert Ball does the posters, he is in no way a writer or producer on the show. He watches the episodes like the rest of us and HBO commissions him to make a poster for each episode.
So, it's just his interpretation.
The argument against the Tyrell's being responsible because they wanted Margaery to produce an heir is incomplete. If I've learned anything from this show, it's that people always have some alternate scheme or plan that isn't as visible. Do we know if the Tyrell's have made other alliances? They could have been sending carrier pigeons to anyone in the world for all we know. Their end-goal was probably something other than getting Margaery pregnant all along.
The fact is you see Olenna grab a gem off a necklace that was clandestinely given to Sansa (who was rushed out of there by the man that gave it to her citing "grave danger"). Unless the goal was to open up a Breaking Bad type "Marie Olenna is a clepto" b-story line, I don't see why they would bother to shoot that scene.
The fact is you see Olenna grab a gem off a necklace that was clandestinely given to Sansa (who was rushed out of there by the man that gave it to her citing "grave danger"). Unless the goal was to open up a Breaking Bad type "
Now that it was brought up what is the story with Beric and his men?
They were what? Former soldiers protecting the King but chose to leave?
And they were going to hand over Arya to Melisandre?
I swear I watched all the seasons and episodes but some of this stuff is completely gone from memory.
TheJollyCorner
Member
I'm looking forward to seeing the new big-ass Mountain in action.
Hopefully he's coming up soon.
Hopefully he's coming up soon.
Death poster for "The Lion and the Rose"
Amazing poster
Nameless
Member
Response I gave to a similar questions earlier in the thread:
Nameless said:
As far as Melisandre, she sought out The Brotherhood for Gendry and his fresh supply of king's blood. When Arya confronts her Melisandre says she see's eyes in the darkness that Arya will close forever, and that they will meet again.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
That's a fan artist's rendition, not official art.
I don't recall anyone else eating the pie. He had the first slice as part of a tradition, I'm sure.
The Horror the horror
Banned
It's more practical to poison a drink as opposed to an entire royal cake.
I think that's what makes her situation interesting... I mean, the King's Landing shit is kinda lame if everyone involved has control over the situation and is super-clever and shit. Sure, SHE isn't super interesting, but her storyline and her place in it creates a lot of tragedy, tension and irony. I mean, that last episode for example, was richer for having Sansa there.
I really felt for her when the "War of the Five Kings" play was going on and "Robb" was killed and degraded by "Joffrey".
The camera closed in on her expression and a sad version of the Stark theme played
Nameless
Member
I really felt for her when the "War of the Five Kings" play was going on and "Robb" was killed and degraded by "Joffrey".
The camera closed in on her expression and a sad version of the Stark theme played
I think I felt more sorry for Loris. Watching a midgit version of your dead lover riding a naked puppet in your likeness has to be brutal.
Say what you want about Joffrey but he went out as The Troll Master of Universe.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I wonder why the Lannisters and the Tyrells haven't sought out Stannis and thought to finish him. Dragonstone isn't far from King's Landing, and as far as I know Stannis hasn't officially surrendered or yielded his claim, thus making him an enemy still...
Eh, at least Renly had his head. IIRC, the one that played Robb had his wolfs head on his shoulders which is what they did to him after they killed him.
Here's the red wedding aftermath scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrsK1X72Ts8
Nameless
Member
Full disclosure....I laughed heartily when Mini-Robb started humping the Wolf's head. Still felt for Sansa, but that was beyond hilarious
The King in North!!
They don't consider him a threat anymore. More of a joke and not worth the effort to seek out and kill.
Joffrey: "I broke Stannis."
Arrowgigantic
Member
That's good news for Stannis and his hitman god who only wants to be paid in blood-filled leeches.
Nameless
Member
Rewatched Second Sons and they cut directly from Joffrey's leech bursting in the flames to Joffrey sipping wine at Tyrion & Sansa's wedding. Amazing foreshadowing.
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