It's impossible someone's opinion on GoT seriously when they keep complaining about how Jaime losing his hand was a bad way for the story to go.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 5 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
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It's impossible someone's opinion on GoT seriously when they keep complaining about how Jaime losing his hand was a bad way for the story to go.
That's great analysis. All those complaints about it serving no purpose and being sadistic for no reason are without merit. Ramsey and Cersei got their jollies in this episode, but meanness comes around.
I agree with everything. This season has been the slowest in character and plot progression. Too much reiterating about what we already knew about the characters or going back and forth with their progression like Dany and Sansa.
IcyRhythms
Member
Let me start by saying that I was(guess it shows the writing and film crew have done their job)disgusted that this happened to Sansa. To be fair, though, a lot of us had to know it was coming. We either didn't want to believe it because it was Sansa, or because we thought she was maybe finally turning into some dark "badass" that sticks up for herself. As a few others have stated in the thread already, Sansa has seen a few weddings herself and knows what is supposed to happen after. She knew that she'd POSSIBLY have to marry Ramsay and by doing so LIKELY lose her virginity. Sansa is an airhead sometimes, but she knew that if LF didn't return sooner than later exactly what she'd have to deal with.
That being said, the more I think about it(until we hear otherwise from Sansa)I'm not sure this was rape. Did she want to have sex with Ramsay? No. Does she love him? Fuck no, and this is not who and how she wanted to lose her virginity. However, thinking about it further has lead me to believe there is a chance she wasn't raped. Is it perfectly possible that Ramsay was a lot more rough with her that he could(should)have been to such a sweet girl? Sure...but I'm not really sure if that was rape. Rape or not, Ramsay doesn't care about being rough or sweet. He was born a sick and twisted human and doesn't care about anything or anyone. The only thing he ever wanted was approval from his father and he got it. Sansa doesn't love and Ramsay and he doesn't love Sansa. Ramsay knows she doesn't care for him. He's just taking advantage of the situation and fucking a beautiful woman before something can keep that from happening.
That being said, the more I think about it(until we hear otherwise from Sansa)I'm not sure this was rape. Did she want to have sex with Ramsay? No. Does she love him? Fuck no, and this is not who and how she wanted to lose her virginity. However, thinking about it further has lead me to believe there is a chance she wasn't raped. Is it perfectly possible that Ramsay was a lot more rough with her that he could(should)have been to such a sweet girl? Sure...but I'm not really sure if that was rape. Rape or not, Ramsay doesn't care about being rough or sweet. He was born a sick and twisted human and doesn't care about anything or anyone. The only thing he ever wanted was approval from his father and he got it. Sansa doesn't love and Ramsay and he doesn't love Sansa. Ramsay knows she doesn't care for him. He's just taking advantage of the situation and fucking a beautiful woman before something can keep that from happening.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I'm leaving my latest creation here and slipping back to the other thread.
"You can smell the shit from 5 miles away"
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
I thought it was quite obvious that she grew fond of him. Otherwise she'd have killed him.
IAmRandom31
Banned
You know I have been centered on Sansa since this past episode but I just thought of something ...
Littlefinger completely F'ed Sansa over and lied to her. He told Sansa that she was going through all this so she could avenge her family and have Stannis come down, destroy the Boltons and then likely be set up as Wardeness of the North by Stannis.
But instead, he used Sansa as a pawn to piss off Cersei enough to potentially send an army up to Winterfell to confront Stannis and the Boltons and with the help of his army in the Vale, he would be set up as Warden of the North when the dust settles.
Man, LF really is a prick. Especially since we know what is going to be happening with Sansa the entire time she is with Ramsay prior to Stannis's army arriving, which with how this show is could be Season 8. Some people seem to think that this episode was it and all the torture and humilation will suddenly end. Where is that Ramsay gif. Sansa may attempt escape or to enlist help, but you think Ramsay hasn't already thought of that and knew that is exactly what she will do? He will F with her mind the same way he does all of his victims.
LF is a good liar and manipulator but like Vary's said he would watch the world burn as long as he is ruling over the ashes.
Littlefinger completely F'ed Sansa over and lied to her. He told Sansa that she was going through all this so she could avenge her family and have Stannis come down, destroy the Boltons and then likely be set up as Wardeness of the North by Stannis.
But instead, he used Sansa as a pawn to piss off Cersei enough to potentially send an army up to Winterfell to confront Stannis and the Boltons and with the help of his army in the Vale, he would be set up as Warden of the North when the dust settles.
Man, LF really is a prick. Especially since we know what is going to be happening with Sansa the entire time she is with Ramsay prior to Stannis's army arriving, which with how this show is could be Season 8. Some people seem to think that this episode was it and all the torture and humilation will suddenly end. Where is that Ramsay gif. Sansa may attempt escape or to enlist help, but you think Ramsay hasn't already thought of that and knew that is exactly what she will do? He will F with her mind the same way he does all of his victims.
LF is a good liar and manipulator but like Vary's said he would watch the world burn as long as he is ruling over the ashes.
but he could also be doing it to be warden of the North WITH Sansa, especially if the Tyrell's get back at Cersei in some way.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Well obviously he would want Sansa by his side. And lord knows, Sansa would be more then up for that at this point. But thats beside the point. LF created some false story to make Sansa feel better about being put in a shitty situation. She is just another pawn to him.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I wouldn't say fond. She did fight with him, travelled as a companion and learned from him. She grew to respect him.
Could also be him seeing a new opportunity. Once he got to King's Landibg and how fucked it is going to be, getting the throne had been pushed back in his scheme. He used Cersi to let him mobilize the Knights of the Veil without oversight from the crown.
Instead of aligning with Stannis he now has his chance to take full control of the North.
This show has been getting shittier by the week. I'm starting to question if I even think it's a good show anymore.
Writing was bad, fight choreography bad -- In certain places the acting was bad (Sand Snakes comic book character girls are terrible) And the rape at the end just felt really gross and pointless, especially after they just built things up as though Sansa was now in control of everything.
The show is a disaster.
Writing was bad, fight choreography bad -- In certain places the acting was bad (Sand Snakes comic book character girls are terrible) And the rape at the end just felt really gross and pointless, especially after they just built things up as though Sansa was now in control of everything.
The show is a disaster.
I can't get over this bizarre expectation that Sansa was going to marry Ramsey, but somehow not have sex with him.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Nah the putting Sansa in Winterfell publicly thing was a calculated move because he knows Cersei thinks Sansa killed Joffrey or helped kill Joffrey in the first place. He already knew what her reaction would be. He is a grandmaster manipulator and knew her anger would cloud her judgement and she would be far more willing to name him whatever he wanted if it helped him take out the person who killed her son. Cersei thinks he is going north to not only destroy Stannis's incoming army and the Boltons but also to take out Sansa in the meantime. So Sansa is just a pawn in this scheme of his.
Everyone knew it was gonna happen. Posts like his are the typical game of thrones reaction to shitty things that always happen.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
When was this ever stated?
What, when Little Finger was like "lol yea I'm gonna marry you off to the family that betrayed your family. Don't worry tho, ur strong and indipendent. Remember the North Remembers, alright peace!"?
She got played by Little Finger who used her to set up a situation where Kings Landing would send an army to take care of Winterfel and he would be Warden of the North.
Literally everything Little Finger did was for this eventuality. Setting her up to be used for the killing of The King. Setting her up to make her crazy aunt crazy jealous, giving a proper reason to kill her and take full control of the Vale. Setting her up so she would trust him, that "I love your mom which means I love you" shit.
News flash, he loved her mom. He couldn't give two shits about Ned Stark (remember how he totally betrayed him?). Sansa is Ned's kid, at this point he is simply using the guise of his love for her mother as some type of "I would never hurt you, I loved your mom" bullshit.
Sansa has been pawned from day one, she has learned to deal with it and fight back when needed to survive. Sansa doesn't have many options, and clearly she is probably going to light the candle and hope to god something decent comes out of it and she can bail out, or hopefully get Ramsey killed so at best she can marry the son of Roose and hope that kid isn't some insane psychopath.
If the girl can't say no, it's rape. Difficult concept?
soundscream
Member
She isn't sending an Army. She said that her uncle wouldn't go North, that's when he said he would use the nights of the Vail so the crown wouldn't have to finance it, in exchange for the title warden of the north.
I think he wants Sansa to suffer a bit so when he comes back into the picture she will appreciate him in a way her mother never did. Because we all know he wants her for himself.
This way if Stannis wins, he can align himself with him and get Sansa and the North by pledging himself to Stannis. If the Boltons win he can clean up the rest like he suggested to Cerci, but instead of killing Sansa he can rally the north by rescuing her and have both the north and the Vail under his wings.
RoninChaos
Member
Bro, you seriously need to look up the definition of rape.
No, he's saying it's GoT. To fulfil the marriage, you need to consummate it.
Sansa knew she was going to marry Ramsay, she knew what would come with that.
That's an interesting point. They empowered her to the point of knowing what it is she has to do/end goals are but still make her completely vulnerable to the cruelty and insanity of Ramsay. At least now she truly knows what and whom she's dealing with. Did feel a bit much, it's probably worse in the book.
higgsboson1997
Member
Character arcs are not always linear. Also, the scene you are criticising so much is literally 5 minutes of a 54 minute episode.
IMO, this is the best show on TV by far.
What I saw was rape, and I called it rape.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Nobody ever said it wasn't. EDIT: Well I guess one guy above said it wasn't, but that's the first I've seen of someone thinking it wasn't rape.
I think he's simply saying that those who say the scene was totally out of place are wrong to a degree, and that consummating is a very common thing.
Ramsey simply used it as a power tool over Sansa and Theon, which I think is completely in line with the show and Ramsey as a character.
the_firewithin
Member
too much rape talk and not enough talk about bitch ass tommen watching his piece get dragged away
The physical act is one thing, having Theon in the room watching and being taunted is another.
Seriously. Tommen needs to grow a pair and take the reigns. I'm so tired of Cersei and her bullshit. Someone, please kill her already.
I was more disgusted by the fact that it was a rape. I'm not saying it's outside of Ramsey's character, I'm just saying it was gross and tasteless, and when combined with how bad every other aspect of the show has been lately I'm not sure if I even like this show anymore.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Arya story is so boring at this point. Boltons, Stannis and KL are high points for me. Tyrion+Dany somewhere in the middle without my man Varys.
And daaaaamn the Sand Snakes are bad. Without Bronn and Jaime it would be insufferable.
And daaaaamn the Sand Snakes are bad. Without Bronn and Jaime it would be insufferable.
The show went from inching forward 8,000 different plot threads to inching sideways 8,000 different plot threads. It's sheer tedium.
The more I think about Loras' trial, the more frustrated I am at the Tyrell's stupidity. Where are all their men? They should have more resources and power than the Lannisters since they are fragmented, yet Cersei still was able to put their heir and the Queen in jail. They were also really shortsighted to not see that the Sparrows obviously had a witness. They could have easily came up with something to discredit that guy's claims or not blindly fall into their trap.
Tommen is a joke, Joffrey would not have let this happen. Margaery knew how to play Joffrey well, had he still been alive Cersei would be at Highgarden, Casterly Rock, or dead.
They've shown tommen being a punk many times now. At some point he will realize he's the fucking King
yeah that was pretty gross, they sould have cut before the part of the rape started
Can Crusher
Banned
Another weak episode. Kings landing "inquisition" plot has been terrible.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
To be fair, the end of last season was basically the end of a the whole arc that started the story.
Granted, they could have done a better job setting the next phase of the story up, but still it had to be set up regardless. So its a transitional phase for the story, and I think they planned it that way.
Granted, they could have done a better job setting the next phase of the story up, but still it had to be set up regardless. So its a transitional phase for the story, and I think they planned it that way.
This is the arc that has me the most baffled. I get that they are 'above the law' or something because of religion, but this is just getting absurd.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Joffrey would've had them all flayed the first time they would've tried to stop him.
Naughty_Doge
Member
lmao I love the sudden change from
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60865357&postcount=7771
to
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60865565&postcount=7772
In just a minute.
Also:
Avinexus
Member
Pretty much anything having to do with the King's Landing plot this season is just boring as hell. Hell, that's part of the reason the fifth episode was so good, no King's Landing stuff in that episode.
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
Terrible season so far.
I agree. By far the worst thing I've seen on the show. I would've just scrapped it entirely and found another way to get to whatever end they need for the characters involved.
What's really annoying is that Tommen doesn't even need to be a genius to fix this whole situation.
What's the most frustrating part of this entire situation is that Tommen can easily fix it all. All he has to do is point at the religious zealots, look at the Kingsguard and say, "Kill them." Then later just point at Casterly Rock, back to Cersei, look at someone else and say, "Go." He's the King, dammit.
God knows this shit is bound to backfire in Cersei's face when the zealots begin to look at her and Tommen and the allegations of her incestuous relationship. Hopefully Tommen does something, but I don't think he will. I hope I'm wrong.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Thats right, but the end point is still the same.
Here is how I see this playing out now that I see the pieces. Ramsay is going to do something to where the war for the army under Stannis is nearly lost. But in rides the hero of the day Littlefinger with the knights of the vale to completely destroy Boltons army. He will gain large favor with Stannis and gain a positive reputation with the families of the North and he will be welcomed when he is named Warden of the North by the Crown. He will then take Sansa as his queen ( maybe, still iffy about this one ) and she will become Wardeness of the North. He will leave Winterfell under her control while he continues to manipulate things around Westeros.
But, while the end game is the same, it is not the situation he told Sansa which had her agree to the situation in the first place. Remember Sansa was " going to starve " herself when this was first suggested. But he put it in her mind that she was going there to be able to avenge her family and all that. And then in the tombs when he was leaving, she was again not into that, but he then told her that false story about Stannis coming down and she would be named Wardeness of the North once the war was over ( which even at the time, seemed thin as hell for a plan ). So she again agreed to stay and be Ramsay's wife until the plan came to fruition.
But the whole time, it was his plan to get named Warden of the North as well as lord of the Vale, not for Sansa to gain anything .. except his friendship ( as long as she is valuable ). I can see people are beginning to like LF, but he is the same scheming little shit he always was. He would kill Sansa if it meant a large enough gain.
...this is a thorny issue, but I think most would agree that it was rape. She didn't want him anywhere near her, and he wasn't exactly gentle with her. Could he have been rougher? Sure, he could have really hurt her. But he still had sex with her against her will. I would call that rape, and I'm sure most people would, too.
I think it's exactly the opposite. He's lying to Cersei... He wants to permission to dethrone the Boltons and marry Sansa. By the time that's wrapped up, it's not very likely that the throne will be controlled by the Lannisters anyway. He's merely covering his bases in case they are somehow still in control. Classic Little Finger.
As for Sansa-- Did people really think she was just going to willingly sleep with Ramsay? How did you envision their wedding night, exactly? He's a monster, of course he was going to have his way with her. At least this time, she's doing this for some larger goal.
We can call it that, but the characters on the show would not. There's no concept of, or law against rape within marriage in the GoT world, just like in the middle-ages.
frankie_baby
Member
Tommen's lack of action was totally pathetic but I wouldn't honestly have expected any better, anyone else think he'll be dead by the end of this season?
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