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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 5 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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Cersei has always been a complete idiot. But otherwise I agree. Other things I don't understand:
Why exactly do the sand snakes want revenge for Oberyn's death? They keep saying they do but he died fairly in a trial-by-combat, and that wasn't even the Lannisters' fault?

Did Littlefinger seriously not do any research into who he was marrying Sansa off to? And if he did why does he think she'll be his pawn after he got her raped by a psychopath?

I don't understand how the religious freaks got so powerful so quickly. It seems like they came out of nowhere, and I just don't buy them exerting this power over the Tyrell's, who have been shown to be beloved as well as powerful.

I do, Tommen is a complete push over. A little kid with no authority. He just let his wife, the queen get taken by some powerless nutjobs. They only have power, because the king allows them. He could had just said, Guards! protect the Queen!!
 

Apt101

Member
Little Finger means business, he wants it all. He has everyone thinking of him as a money man and whore monger, when he's actually precisely the type of person that can unify all of the kingdoms. He clearly intends on accomplishing it by tearing down the great families, but I think when this whole thing ends he's going to be the last man standing.
 
The one good thing about the series/novels ending will be all the games we'll no doubt get. I just want to create my character, choose a House to fight for, and explore a fully fleshed out Westeros/Essos

A GoT mmo where everyone runs around saying "Hodor". Come to think of it that would be pretty awesome if you could be a worg(sp?) and take over animals at low levels and other players at high levels.

Little Finger means business, he wants it all. He has everyone thinking of him as a money man and whore monger, when he's actually precisely the type of person that can unify all of the kingdoms. He clearly intends on accomplishing it by tearing down the great families, but I think when this whole thing ends he's going to be the last man standing.

With Dragons on one side and white walkers on the other? he would be screwed.
 
Little Finger means business, he wants it all. He has everyone thinking of him as a money man and whore monger, when he's actually precisely the type of person that can unify all of the kingdoms. He clearly intends on accomplishing it by tearing down the great families, but I think when this whole thing ends he's going to be the last man standing.

To be honest, I though he was going to get killed by the fanatics and got scared for a second.
 

Lorcain

Member
The Bronn and Jamie adventure feels just like a bad star trek away team mission, complete with bad acting and hilarious fight scenes with the locals. The fight scene gif would be even funnier with batman action balloons...kepow, crack, woosh, boing, thwack!

Cersei imagines herself a player of the game, but she's like a 4 year old sliding and knocking chess pieces around because she can, not because she understands what they really do.
 
With Dragons on one side and white walkers on the other? he would be screwed.

I don't think he cares much about either. Despite his eyes and ears everywhere, he seems pretty ignorant to the White Walkers/Dragons. Probably believes Dany will never cross over. Unless he has some ulterior goal, he's very short-sighted.
 

Prine

Banned
I don't think he cares much about either. Despite his eyes and ears everywhere, he seems pretty ignorant to the White Walkers/Dragons. Probably believes Dany will never cross over. Unless he has some ulterior goal, he's very short-sighted.

Seems like everyone is ignorant of them. Thats the real war coming thier way. And Stannis seems like the only one who knows how to kill them (thanks to Tully).
 

Apt101

Member
Seems like everyone is ignorant of them. Thats the real war coming thier way. And Stannis seems like the only one who knows how to kill them (thanks to Tully).

I think that's a common theme of the show: everyone is too busy worrying oaths, traditions, and the crown to realize the real threat. They even meagerly supply the Night's Watch while lavishly spending gold they don't have to take down enemies and party. I've often wondered, what if the show ends with Westeros falling to the Others, leaving Dany nothing to return to? A bleak ending, but I wouldn't put it past these writers.
 

Nameless

Member
I'll set my tv on fire if fucking Littlefinger rides in with a shit eating grin and decimates Stannis's army right as he's about to defeat the Boltons. Roose let's Baelish's forces through the gates, being allies and all, and then.....

That grimy little pimp is going to have 1/3 of Westeros wrapped up by the end of the season isn't he?
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
So I'm not caught up for a couple weeks now but apparently a lot of jimmies are getting rustled with the latest episode.

I'm still avoiding spoilers - not even reading the above posts - but can anyone tell me what kind of thing happened that's causing all the ruckus minus any character names?
 

Nameless

Member
So I'm not caught up for a couple weeks now but apparently a lot of jimmies are getting rustled with the latest episode.

I'm still avoiding spoilers - not even reading the above posts - but can anyone tell me what kind of thing happened that's causing all the ruckus minus any character names?

A fan favorite got sexually assaulted.
 
I thought it was a crap episode mostly because nothing happened, and because the stuff with Arya is becoming boring as shit. A girl needs to hurry the fuck up and advance the storyline already. The rape scene was brutal but that's what this show is. I was honestly shocked at the backlash it got afterwards online because at the time I didn't really think twice about it.
 

Nameless

Member
Somehow by that statement alone as well as the huge reaction this getting, I may have deduced who it is somehow.


Sansa?

UImQ35g.gif
 

mantidor

Member
Am I really the only Ramsey fan in here?

What is interesting or noteworthy about him as a character? Being a Ramsay fan comes out as just wanting to be edgy or contrarian, even in terms if villainy he is pretty one note. The show has far more interesting villains.
 

Apt101

Member
I thought it was a crap episode mostly because nothing happened, and because the stuff with Arya is becoming boring as shit. A girl needs to hurry the fuck up and advance the storyline already. The rape scene was brutal but that's what this show is. I was honestly shocked at the backlash it got afterwards online because at the time I didn't really think twice about it.

I was expecting it to happen, and to be worse frankly.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
A fan favorite got sexually assaulted.

Yeah. After I saw this episode I exclaimed "great!" In a semi disgusted and cynical manner, but then after my girlfriend, who has stopped watching the show mostly due to time and boredom got home from work we talked about it for an hour or so.

I went from feeling apathetic to a pretty aggravated with the show for pulling that card yet again. On one level I feel like "oh its just that super violent show" but given 5 minutes of reflection I started to feel bad for being so apathetic about it. I'll continue to watch the show but I think I've reached a point where I am starting to see it for the trash it is. Its well executed and entertaining trash but it is not a show worth analyzing below the surface because its kind of monstrous.
 

Kusagari

Member
I don't understand how the religious freaks got so powerful so quickly. It seems like they came out of nowhere, and I just don't buy them exerting this power over the Tyrell's, who have been shown to be beloved as well as powerful.

It's not hard to gain power when nobody tries to stop you. The Kings Guard will only do something if Tommen or Cersei tells them.
 
So apparently that final scene is getting a ton of backlash online. I guess that makes sense, to me it looks like they're going to use the rape of Sansa to be a big turning point in the character development of Theon.
 

royalan

Member
So apparently that final scene is getting a ton of backlash online. I guess that makes sense, to me it looks like they're going to use the rape of Sansa to be a big turning point in the character development of Theon.

That's the sad thing about it. The people saying, "You don't know if the scene is pointless! This might turn out to be a turning point for Sansa and/or Theon's (gag) character!!"

Well you know what? That's still horrible!
 
What is interesting or noteworthy about him as a character? Being a Ramsay fan comes out as just wanting to be edgy or contrarian, even in terms if villainy he is pretty one note. The show has far more interesting villains.

I find him and Roose very entertaining on screen. Sure Ramsey is pretty one note but he still plays the part very well.
 
That's the sad thing about it. The people saying, "You don't know if the scene is pointless! This might turn out to be a turning point for Sansa and/or Theon's (gag) character!!"

Well you know what? That's still horrible!

In my opinion it'd probably make it even worse if they use that scene like I'm speculating.
 
according to the Lanister line,
is not Myrcella next in line for the Throne?

seems weird that more importance hasn't been placed on getting her,

Baratheon is the royal line, not Lannister. Stannis is after Myrcella (well, I guess that is kinda complicated since he is branded as a traitor by the current rulers).

I wish I could be as outraged as some over a rape scene in a series like GOT.

I don't understand how the religious freaks got so powerful so quickly. It seems like they came out of nowhere, and I just don't buy them exerting this power over the Tyrell's, who have been shown to be beloved as well as powerful.
Tommen/Cersei allowed them to be armed so really they might be the most powerful force in the streets. The city guard isn't huge as they had problems controlling a riot back in S2 when the mob actually wasn't armed and the kingsguard only has few members. Then there is the remains of Lannister (and Tyrell?) armies but likely vast majority of them are at Casterly Rock and Highgarden.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
So apparently that final scene is getting a ton of backlash online. I guess that makes sense, to me it looks like they're going to use the rape of Sansa to be a big turning point in the character development of Theon.

They didn't want to a) sideline Sansa for the season ala Bramm and b) introduce another character just to have them get raped by Ramsay to develop Theon c) risk losing the actress to other shows if they sidelined her for a year. So last season they merged that character's storyline into Sansa; but no one thought they would actually follow through that character's storyline...except they did, because this is GoT, and subverting expectations and tropes is the name of the game.

Per Martin's repeated points - a big part of the story is to show that humanity is the ultimate monster; especially in the name of power / defeating other "monsters" (literal ones for instance). In a world as screwed up as GoT; this is pretty par for the course. But there are a lot of thinkpieces / clickbaits to be written, and GoT getting to the point where they start subverting their own tropes (making everyone think Sansa's going to get out of it because she's been built up as stronger over time); which will screw with your fanbase.

People need to stop expecting wish fulfillment out of GoT. It's not going to happen. It never has. I doubt it ever will.
 
Bolton is screwed, his only allies will never save him. Stannis is coming there in droves (heck Jon Snow might even bring thousands of wildlings) and the Bolton's have a very small army but some strategy position. Making a deal with Littlefinger only served to put a Stark in Power now.

Also what game is Littlefinger playing? Dude seems like 20 steps ahead of everybody else.

He's manipulated nearly every event in this show so far. From pitting the Lannisters and Starks against one another to ensuring Ned didn't take the throne to taking over the Vale to now making it where it's a near certainty he gets names Warden of the North. Either Stannis will name him or Cersei will when he arrives in Winterfell with the armies of the Vale.

I'm wondering more about whether he decides to take out Stannis himself though. Both armies will be weakened by the upcoming battle and Stannis may lose more men then expected in the process. Does LF seize that opportunity and take out the winning army altogether because " they were traitors to the realm " or something like that?

Stannis could be warden of the North fairly soon with Sansa at his side with a united north once again with the Vale actively involved this times. Boltons gone, Boratheons gone. If he was smart at that pointer would lay siege to the Freys at the crossing and rid of that nuisance.

I really wonder what end role Arya will play in l this. And will Sansa ever learn that LF was behind Ned getting overtaken in the first place despite being named protector of the realm by the last true king in Robert.

This story has potential to be great. It is just floundering around too long in weak character development STILL after 5 seasons
 

scabro

Member
Baratheon is the royal line, not Lannister. Stannis is after Myrcella (well, I guess that is kinda complicated since he is branded as a traitor by the current rulers).

I wish I could be as outraged as some over a rape scene in a series like GOT.


Tommen/Cersei allowed them to be armed so really they might be the most powerful force in the streets. The city guard isn't huge as they had problems controlling a riot back in S2 when the mob actually wasn't armed and the kingsguard only has few members. Then there is the remains of Lannister (and Tyrell?) armies but likely vast majority of them are at Casterly Rock and Highgarden.

Especially since its Ramsey.

Like, really?
 

trips

Neo Member
I went from feeling apathetic to a pretty aggravated with the show for pulling that card yet again. On one level I feel like "oh its just that super violent show" but given 5 minutes of reflection I started to feel bad for being so apathetic about it. I'll continue to watch the show but I think I've reached a point where I am starting to see it for the trash it is. Its well executed and entertaining trash but it is not a show worth analyzing below the surface because its kind of monstrous.
I don't think the show has anything below the surface. It's nihilistic and thematically empty.
 

royalan

Member
They didn't want to a) sideline Sansa for the season ala the books and b) introduce another new character just to have them get raped by Ramsay to develop Theon (which is what happened in the book, and dear lord, the scene in the book is much, much darker than the scene on TV) and c) risk losing the actress to other shows if they sidelined her for a year. So last season they merged that character's storyline into Sansa; but no one thought they would actually follow through that character's storyline...except they did, because this is GoT, and subverting expectations and tropes is the name of the game.

Per Martin's repeated points - a big part of the story is to show that humanity is the ultimate monster; especially in the name of power / defeating other "monsters" (literal ones for instance). In a world as screwed up as GoT; this is pretty par for the course. But there are a lot of thinkpieces / clickbaits to be written, and GoT getting to the point where they start subverting their own tropes (making everyone think Sansa's going to get out of it because she's been built up as stronger over time); which will screw with your fanbase.

People need to stop expecting wish fulfillment out of GoT. It's not going to happen. It never has. I doubt it ever will.

I challenge this idea, that by having Sansa raped the show was "subverting expectations."

Rape is the name of the game in this show. Torturing Sansa has also been the name of the game since halfway through season 1. The scene played right into the cycle that Sansa's been spinning in almost since she was introduced. The rape scene was infuriating and an example of terrible storytelling because it was gratuitous and unnecessary and kicked Sansa's arc in the balls, not because it was unexpected. GoT fell into a trap almost worse than being over-the-top last night: it fell into the trap of being utterly and disappointingly predictable.

The only way to argue that this scene subverted expectations is to build a point around the fact that Sansa was almost raped once before, and so this is somehow "coming full circle" or something, and that alone is problematic as hell.

This show does not subvert expectations. There will never again be another Red Wedding.
 

mantidor

Member
They didn't want to a) sideline Sansa for the season ala Bramm and b) introduce another character just to have them get raped by Ramsay to develop Theon c) risk losing the actress to other shows if they sidelined her for a year. So last season they merged that character's storyline into Sansa; but no one thought they would actually follow through that character's storyline...except they did, because this is GoT, and subverting expectations and tropes is the name of the game.

Per Martin's repeated points - a big part of the story is to show that humanity is the ultimate monster; especially in the name of power / defeating other "monsters" (literal ones for instance). In a world as screwed up as GoT; this is pretty par for the course. But there are a lot of thinkpieces / clickbaits to be written, and GoT getting to the point where they start subverting their own tropes (making everyone think Sansa's going to get out of it because she's been built up as stronger over time); which will screw with your fanbase.

People need to stop expecting wish fulfillment out of GoT. It's not going to happen. It never has. I doubt it ever will.

I think many people were expecting the show to not do the obvious thing and have Sansa raped in her wedding night, because as you said is what everyone should expect about this show.

The show is not subverting any expectations at this point.
 
I challenge this idea, that by having Sansa raped the show was "subverting expectations."

Rape is the name of the game in this show. Torturing Sansa has also been the name of the game since halfway through season 1. The scene played right into the cycle that Sansa's been spinning in almost since she was introduced. The rape scene was infuriating and an example of terrible storytelling because it was gratuitous and unnecessary and kicked Sansa's arc in the balls, not because it was unexpected. GoT fell into a trap almost worse than being over-the-top last night: it fell into the trap of being utterly and disappointingly predictable.

The only way to argue that this scene subverted expectations is to build a point around the fact that Sansa was almost raped once before, and so this is somehow "coming full circle" or something, and that alone is problematic as hell.

This show does not subvert expectations. There will never again be another Red Wedding.

I agree with this, Ramsay raping Sansa was about as far from "subverting expectations" as possible at this point. In the end I think it was unnecessaryat best and a weak way to turn Theons story around at worst.
 

trips

Neo Member
It's not hard to gain power when nobody tries to stop you. The Kings Guard will only do something if Tommen or Cersei tells them.
I get this on a practical level, but I feel like there wasn't enough work building up the structure and importance of the church prior to this season.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
What is interesting or noteworthy about him as a character? Being a Ramsay fan comes out as just wanting to be edgy or contrarian, even in terms if villainy he is pretty one note. The show has far more interesting villains.

I liked Joffrey if only because he was a fun time. You never knew WHAT was going to happen with Joffrey on screen because while he wielded a ton of power and would use it in a heartbeat, but he was deferential to Tywin. Ramsay is less interesting because he just likes torturing people. He's got no real power and nothing to use it on.

I get this on a practical level, but I feel like there wasn't enough work building up the structure and importance of the church prior to this season.

I really think Cersei is using the church as a blunt tool. As soon as Tyrell's are out of the way she'll remove all the churches' powers (if she can, provided she doesn't accidentally make them too powerful).
 
It's got lost in all the controversy, but I thought Tyrion telling Jorah about his dad was really sad.

Yeah, their scenes were great yet again.

I have to say, after the Sands Snakes being hyped for this season they have really fallen flat for me. From the way they were introduced and then not seen for episodes, to the way they somehow knew they exact moment Jaime and Bronn were entering the water gardens, to the slow and clunky fight, and to cap it off they all get captured and nothing comes of it. When Oberyn fought, he looked skilled as hell but the sand snakes looked pretty amateurish at best. The fights this season have all been pretty lame. Are they using a different choreographer than the person who did the Viper vs The Mountain last season or something?

Totally agree, if that fight had been better shot and choreographed that certainly would have helped them come out looking better. Instead like you said it was surprisingly crazy slow and clunky.

They need to make greater use of Doctor Bashir, damn it.

Yeah :D
 

Vire

Member
I will say, I find it interesting how they are positioning Ramsay as the new big bad. A few seasons back I never would have guessed he would be almost the main antagonist, but at this point he is making Joffrey look merciful and kind.
 
They need to make greater use of Doctor Bashir, damn it.

This is one of my biggest disappointments this season. Sure there's still a few episodes to go but I can't see him doing much.

I was so pumped for Doran and the Sandsnakes getting sweet revenge but it's just all deflated like a wet soggy balloon. I don't really care now.
 

royalan

Member
Totally agree, if that fight had been better shot and choreographed that certainly would have helped them come out looking better. Instead like you said it was surprisingly crazy slow and clunky.

I don't even think good choreography would have saved that scene. Am I the only one who was bothered by the setting?

You mean to tell me that both the Sand Snakes and Jamie/Bronn got the bright idea to make a move on Myrcella while she was with the prince, in the palace gardens, which is usually being overlooked by the king and his guard, in broad daylight?

I was expecting some sort of badass night confrontation as both groups attempted to steal her away from her chambers in the cover of darkness. But that? That was stupid. I called the fight ending the way it did when it started.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
I challenge this idea, that by having Sansa raped the show was "subverting expectations."

Rape is the name of the game in this show. Torturing Sansa has also been the name of the game since halfway through season 1. The scene played right into the cycle that Sansa's been spinning in almost since she was introduced. The rape scene was infuriating and an example of terrible storytelling because it was gratuitous and unnecessary and kicked Sansa's arc in the balls, not because it was unexpected. GoT fell into a trap almost worse than being over-the-top last night: it fell into the trap of being utterly and disappointingly predictable.

The only way to argue that this scene subverted expectations is to build a point around the fact that Sansa was almost raped once before, and so this is somehow "coming full circle" or something, and that alone is problematic as hell.

This show does not subvert expectations. There will never again be another Red Wedding.

I think many people were expecting the show to not do the obvious thing and have Sansa raped in her wedding night, because as you said is what everyone should expect about this show.

The show is not subverting any expectations at this point.

I took it as a meta-subversion of expectations. Many of the people most upset by the events of the episode, even in their reviews, admit that they didn't think the producers would do it again (largely because of the controversy). Even though, lets be clear, nothing happens at all in the show should be subverting expectations, since what's going to happen has been laid out years ago. They saw the typical "building up of heroine who has been through hell, has learned under a trainer, and is now ready to enter similar situation and defend herself" trope. Except this is GoT, and the character's a Stark...so the character is doubly screwed.

Maybe I'm overthinking it; but I thought the meta subversion was an interesting touch, especially in a story that has already been mostly determined and published. I also fully expect this to lead to some absolutely nutso consequences by the end of S6.
 

Arcayne

Member
watched it, don't know what I expected. Worse things have happened that wasn't as predictable as this. Coupled with the fact that its Ramsey and what we've seen him do, I was surprised more sadistic things didn't happen. Theon's face though, powerful acting.

I continue to be underwhelmed, still waiting for the big thing
 

Herne

Member
We know Ramsay is an evil bastard. We also know that Sansa has been through a lot of shit. I just can't shake the feeling that this scene was done for another character's redemption, and also just for shock value. Neither are nearly close to good enough reasons to do what Ramsay did.

As for the other source of ire in the episode... Coming from Oberyn, an eloquent, intelligent and charismatic man, deadly in combat, to the incompetent dullards we saw, it's one hell of a disappointment.

Why the fuck did Obara a) feel the need to monologue yet again, and b) think she needed to identify herself to her Prince's well known protector and his soldiers, all of whom would have known who she and her sisters were? Agh, the stupid, it's strong in this one.
 
I don't even think good choreography would have saved that scene. Am I the only one who was bothered by the setting?

You mean to tell me that both the Sand Snakes and Jamie/Bronn got the bright idea to make a move on Myrcella while she was with the prince, in the palace gardens, which is usually being overlooked by the king and his guard, in broad daylight?

I was expecting some sort of badass night confrontation as both groups attempted to steal her away from her chambers in the cover of darkness. But that? That was stupid. I called the fight ending the way it did when it started.

Oh I agree with this, as someone said during the episode, that plan was crazy, in the gardens, in broad freaking daylight with the guards around, who would no doubt be guarding the prince....

Me too. Where was the night plan.

I was just referring to specifically how the three of them came off even worse thanks to that fight. As others have said, the fight made them look pretty bad. They perhaps would have atleast come off somewhat better had that fight looked better, even if the result was still obviously the same.
 

Dryk

Member
I will say, I find it interesting how they are positioning Ramsay as the new big bad. A few seasons back I never would have guessed he would be almost the main antagonist, but at this point he is making Joffrey look merciful and kind.
Joffrey had power but that was all he had going for him. Ramsey's been comparatively weak but he's always seemed to have a sense of how far he can push things and get away with it which is something Joffrey never had.

I took it as a meta-subversion of expectations. Many of the people most upset by the events of the episode, even in their reviews, admit that they didn't think the producers would do it again (largely because of the controversy).
Personally them actually going through with it caught me off guard. And even the way it's shot seems to be intended to keep you hoping for another last-second save. In retrospect I'm kind of surprised that they managed to throw the "No, you're going to watch" line into the scene and still show what little discretion they did.
 

royalan

Member
Joffrey had power but that was all he had going for him. Ramsey's been comparatively weak but he's always seemed to have a sense of how far he can push things and get away with it which is something Joffrey never had.

Ramsey's also unnervingly clever....

(Don't know if this is a spoiler, it's not book related, but I'll tag it just to be safe)
Like, ever since someone told me of the theory that the old lady and the candle might be one of Ramsey's infamous traps, I'm hoping against hope that Sansa never attempts to light it. :(
 
8a4c0947bfb80108f84174b85d0fb4ee.gif


I honestly cannot tell if this episode is bad or not.. I think I've come to a point where i'll just gladly take any shit GOT throws at me.

wow, the ending destroyed me.. writers built up the hype of sansa can finally hold his own.. and it was all crystallized when she said "im Sansa Stark the house of Winterfell. This is my home and you can't frighten me." I was all
GMxuz.png
Thats as straight as you can get from the horses mouth right there.. then GRRM destroys all that wondrous shit when he had her raped by that asswipe.. Just as when things can't get any worse for her, he made Reek watch it all in what felt like 5 fukin minutes of him just standing there and crying in agony.. I kept teeling to myself dude DO SOMETHING!!! Dude kept crying and screen cuts to black.. . god damn... FU reek. FU ramsey..
N7ZURZd.png
 

UrokeJoe

Member
8a4c0947bfb80108f84174b85d0fb4ee.gif


I honestly cannot tell if this episode is bad or not.. I think I've come to a point where i'll just gladly take any shit GOT throws at me.

wow, the ending destroyed me.. writers built up the hype of sansa can finally hold his own.. and it was all crystallized when she said "im Sansa Stark the house of Winterfell. This is my home and you can't frighten me." I was all
GMxuz.png
Thats as straight as you can get from the horses mouth right there.. then GRRM destroys all that wondrous shit when he had her raped by that asswipe.. Just as when things can't get any worse for her, he made Reek watch it all in what felt like 5 fukin minutes of him just standing there and crying in agony.. I kept teeling to myself dude DO SOMETHING!!! Dude kept crying and screen cuts to black.. . god damn... FU reek. FU ramsey..
N7ZURZd.png

This is me gif and all.
 
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