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[iNvid02]

although they would make a great tv show, what are an imp, a stone man, a fighter and a handmaiden gonna do without dany and those dragons.

 

[Mamofish]

Or how about the spear guy saving Jorrah rather than waiting for the attacker to kill Jorrah and then make his move.

Sloppy choreography.

I had the same thought at first but, then I figured maybe the other fighter wanted to fight what who he thought was "weaker" at that moment.

Jorrah was down and out. Two easy kills (or so he thought), instead of one harder one.

 

[DeathByBacklog]

Maybe you're right, but at this point, the Bolton's army falling into complete chaos and being swiftly defeated is the only outcome that I can see that would make the necessity of Shireen's murder make any sense.

Or Mel isn't really trying to help Stannis but rather take him down so that it paves the way for someone else. Maybe it's all been one grand scheme all along and he's not the one intended to rule.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Are you referring to Stannis burning Shireen? Because the character of Stannis has been burning people alive and betraying his family all series long.

I always thought his daughter was special too him, why else keep her around since she suffers from grey-scale and no one would want to marry her

 

[Vashetti]

Once this season is done, I'm diving into the books on my new Kindle.

A few articles I've read (no spoilers), have said we're essentially coming to the end of published book material for the majority of characters as of the next episode, so I think it's time for me to delve into the books properly.

I'm not sure how the threads are going to work next year, but if book readers and non-book readers are still segregated, I'll miss you guys

 

[Valus]

I always thought his daughter was special too him, why else keep her around since she suffers from grey-scale and no one would want to marry her

They only really started showing him being a caring father this season, and they did that on purpose to make him killing her more impactful to the audience.

 

[Sande]

But it HASN'T resulted in bigger pay-offs, thats my point. At least it hasn't seemed like it to me. I guess it will make more (or less) sense when we see what the outcome of Shireen's burning is in the next episode, but I don't feel like the magnitude of the "sacrifice" has correlated well with the outcomes.

The primary problem facing Stannis in the North is the horrible weather. He can't march forward and he can't go back to the Wall because he'll get stuck for good. So in order to save him from said weather, Melisandre insists that he has to burn Shireen alive. Why couldn't she have used leeches, like Stannis asked? Again, all it took was a couple leeches to kill off 3 MAJOR players in the war a few seasons back (I'm just assuming Balon is out of the picture as well, since we haven't seen him) - it just seems like that's a huge result for such little effort.

I would question the leeches. Would Joffrey and Robb have survived if a couple of leeches hadn't been burned? I doubt it.

 

[Forceatowulf]

I always thought his daughter was special too him, why else keep her around since she suffers from grey-scale and no one would want to marry her

Special to him? He kept her locked away in a tower because he was embarrassed of her appearance.

It wasn't until very recently that he showed he genuinely cared for her. But much like the relatives he burned alive in his introduction, his love for his family members wasn't as strong as his desire to sit on the throne.

He also seemed to hate Robert and killed Renly and cheated on his devoted wife. This dude doesn't give a FUCK about his family.

 

[Wreav]

I so badly want Arya to kill Trant, thinking that Trant killed Forel...then turns out that Jaqen's been Forel the whole time.

/cue training montage with needle!

 

[ComputerBlue]

Once this season is done, I'm diving into the books on my new Kindle.

A few articles I've read (no spoilers), have said we're essentially coming to the end of published book material for the majority of characters as of the next episode, so I think it's time for me to delve into the books properly.

I'm not sure how the threads are going to work next year, but if book readers and non-book readers are still segregated, I'll miss you guys

Pretty sure there are book readers in this thread, they just know to follow the rules. No need to leave us if you've read the books.

I've been wanting to read the books myself, but at this point I'm just going to wait until the series is over. I read the first chapter of the first book a couple years ago and stopped myself because I knew that once I finished the first book I'd need to read the second and eventually I'd be ahead of the show and didn't want that.

I so badly want Arya to kill Trant, thinking that Trant killed Forel...then turns out that Jaqen's been Forel the whole time.

/cue training montage with needle!

I wonder what will come of this, because I'm pretty sure Jaqen knew she was full of shit when she returned and said the thin man didn't wan't any Oysters.

 

[Hollycat]

OOps, I forgot 2 predictions: Sand Snakes break their oath and attack Jamie and Bronn, accidentally killing Tristain.
Stannis and the High Sparrow declare holy war on each other.

 

[DeathByBacklog]

Yet, for some reason, people ignored the gigantic blood stained neon signs telling them shit is fucked, and stubbornly expected puppies & ice cream to fall from the sky like this is a conventional story who's ultimate goal is to send the audience on their way with a coke and a smile.

Well they did give us puppies the first episode. But sadly, there's been no ice cream.

 

[the_firewithin]

I so badly want Arya to kill Trant, thinking that Trant killed Forel...then turns out that Jaqen's been Forel the whole time.

/cue training montage with needle!

I think arya will screw up somehow and jaqen will save her and then she will fully give into the many faced god

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Apparently there are spoiler images out there. Hopefully this can remain a safe haven until Sunday.

 

[wildfire]

lolol

These latest Stannis gifs are brilliant.

Exactly. Words don't mean shit.

Its fine if you don't like the show, I get weird looks all the time from people who don't follow the show but read into the controversy. No skin off my back. But I can't help but scoff at the reasoning and rationale of those who have followed the show up to this point, thru all the absolutely shocking and dehumanizing shit that's happened but draw the line at what ever their random sensibility may be. Especially when its more or less the same shit that's happened before.

How many burnings have we witnessed? I remember Mance and the guy from Stannis' first scene. The witch in the dothraki camp. I'm sure I've missed some. How is it any more intolerable now because it happened to his daughter? How is it any worse than any of the other horrific death scenes we've seen?

It's worse because it was done to character who was built up over a longer period of time. The emotional investment was higher which makes the violence all the more brutal.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Kit Harington watches Jon Snow impersonations on Kimmel.

That third dude kills it.

 

[The Giant]

Be careful everyone, the finale has leaked.

 

[Cornballer]

Same post as the other thread:

1) Please don't post any leaked images or discuss content from the leaks. Doesn't matter if you use spoiler tags or not.
2) Don't talk about where to acquire said leaks. There are plenty of other places on the internet to chat about this sort of thing.
3) Don't beg for PMs regarding leaked material.

The finale is on Sunday night and E3 is next week. This is a very bad time to take a ban.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Damn, thanks for the heads up. Nothing but GAF until Sunday night. Nowhere else is safe.

 

[TheContact]

Or how about the spear guy saving Jorrah rather than waiting for the attacker to kill Jorrah and then make his move.

Sloppy choreography.

Yea the whole harpy scene made no sense especially when it got to the arena. If they wanted to kill dany they could have so easily. Once when she was near her seat and definitely once they were in the area. Somehow the unsullied were drunk or something because they looked like incompetent fools out there and when the harpies outnumbered them in the arena they did the one at a time approach which is honestly pathetic. If they wanted her dead she could have been overwhelmed so easily. Even when dragon showed up there was a moment of her just staring at the dragon and in that "heartfelt" moment they decided to throw spears at the dragon instead of dany. Then she flies away leaving her friends to presumably die which I don't understand how they didn't. Drogon toasted a few harpies no doubt but there were a shit ton more that were still in the arena. That whole scene was a mess.

 

[TheContact]

Kit Harington watches Jon Snow impersonations on Kimmel.

That third dude kills it.

That was awesome. Yea the third dude was good. So was the first. Then the second.

 

[Volimar]

Same post as the other thread:

Just want to take a sec and say a big thanks to you and the other mods for keeping us safe from spoilers. I know a lot of people don't think they're a big deal, but I really appreciate your efforts.

 

[DeathByBacklog]

Be careful everyone, the finale has leaked.

Really? Again? Dammit!

 

[mantidor]

Far be it from me to tell anyone where to draw their line or how spend their time, but this [minor] trend of people quitting the show due to its brutality is kinda of amusing. I mean Christ, the very first episode featured slaughtered children, an innocent man getting beheaded, a girl being raped by a barbarian, and a boy being thrown savagely from a tower window by a dude fucking his sister. THE.FIRST.EPISODE.

And since then the show has made no qualms about what kind of world and story it's building. Yet, for some reason, people ignored the gigantic blood stained neon signs telling them shit is fucked, and stubbornly expected puppies & ice cream to fall from the sky like this is a conventional story who's ultimate goal is to send the audience on their way with a coke and a smile.

Obligatory:

No snark or sarcasm, I honestly want to know...what did people think they had signed up for after watching the pilot, nevemind the previous four seasons?

That gif annoys me so much.

Martin doesn't write things "the way they are", it's freaking fiction, and historians must facepalm constantly at this supposedly "accurate" description of medieval times.

And there is a difference between killing a character you just met than killing or harming a character you have build up for several episodes/books.

 

[lastplayed]

That gif annoys me so much.

Martin doesn't write things "the way they are", it's freaking fiction, and historians must facepalm constantly at this supposedly "accurate" description of medieval times.

Ha, if it were so accurate they'd have gunpowder weapons by now. Stannis should be able to cannon the shit out of Winterfell's walls.

Like so much fantasy they cherry pick certain medieval elements and ignore others.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Ha, if it were so accurate they'd have gunpowder weapons by now. Stannis should be able to cannon the shit out of Winterfell's walls.

Like so much fantasy they cherry pick certain medieval elements and ignore others.

That's what keeps it in line and makes it good in my opinion. Imagine Harry Potter, since it's set in the 80s Voldy just pulls out a gun and shoots harry, lol.

 

[BobTheFork]

Ha, if it were so accurate they'd have gunpowder weapons by now. Stannis should be able to cannon the shit out of Winterfell's walls.

Like so much fantasy they cherry pick certain medieval elements and ignore others.

I kept waiting for some maester to have black power. It's fine without though. We have wildfire, magic and potential science zombies (mountain) and lots of medieval remedies but no black powder.

 

[Five]

That's what keeps it in line and makes it good in my opinion. Imagine Harry Potter, since it's set in the 80s Voldy just pulls out a gun and shoots harry, lol.

It's actually 1991–1998 though, unless you were talking about Harry as a baby.

 

[Dommo]

That gif annoys me so much.

Martin doesn't write things "the way they are", it's freaking fiction, and historians must facepalm constantly at this supposedly "accurate" description of medieval times.

And there is a difference between killing a character you just met than killing or harming a character you have build up for several episodes/books.

What? I don't think anyone is claiming GRRM writes his stories with historical accuracy. "The way things are" doesn't mean historical realism. It means the brutal truths of life. He doesn't shy away from inequality, discrimination, the depressing reality of human nature, our hunger for power above all else etc.

It's short hand for saying he's not interested in telling a story that wraps its characters in a nice bow, simplifies them into warm archetypes and gives us all an ending that makes us feel good.

He's not showing us how historical details were. He's showing us the way humans are. I'm not even GoT's biggest supporter, but this seems pretty straightforward.

 

[ComputerBlue]

It's actually 1991–1998 though, unless you were talking about Harry as a baby.

There's a gif for everything isn't there? lol

I was since he was the boy who lived and all, wouldn't have been if Voldy was violent like a human and not a damn wizard, lol.

Anyway, point being is that If GoT had guns and cannons it would suck balls. The scythe from last season was probably my favorite defensive weapon though.

 

[lastplayed]

Forgot about that. Awesome weapon.

 

[Five]

There's a gif for everything isn't there? lol

I was since he was the boy who lived and all, wouldn't have been if Voldy was violent like a human and not a damn wizard, lol.

Anyway, point being is that If GoT had guns and cannons it would suck balls. The scythe from last season was probably my favorite defensive weapon though.

I think you can trace a lot of that to the inclusion of dragons. For those with dragons, why develop other weaponry for seiges? For those without, ballastae and other pointed weapons would be much more effective at fighting dragons than cannibals. Plus you also have the fire forged steel and the wildfire, and all of the dragon magic.

 

[neorej]

What? I don't think anyone is claiming GRRM writes his stories with historical accuracy. "The way things are" doesn't mean historical realism. It means the brutal truths of life. He doesn't shy away from inequality, discrimination, the depressing reality of human nature, our hunger for power above all else etc.

It's short hand for saying he's not interested in telling a story that wraps its characters in a nice bow, simplifies them into warm archetypes and gives us all an ending that makes us feel good.

He's not showing us how historical details were. He's showing us the way humans are. I'm not even GoT's biggest supporter, but this seems pretty straightforward.

Like my GF and I agreed upon after discussing the reactions to the last two episodes; there are stories about what humans could achieve, what we could be, what we should strive to be. Uplifting stories, inspiring stories that will make us want to be the hero that never wavers, to be clearly good in the face of what is clearly evil, a hard and sharp contrast of who stands where, stories where the good always trumps evil.

This is not one of those stories; this is a story about human nature, about what we were, are and most likely always will be. Because although the weapons and society have changed, the game has remained the same for centuries. This is a story without clear good and evil, this is a story about the grey area in between and it's a large area. Good people do evil things and evil men are capable of doing good things. Good and evil are relative terms, depending on perspective, position and necessity.

 

[rambis]

These latest Stannis gifs are brilliant.



It's worse because it was done to character who was built up over a longer period of time. The emotional investment was higher which makes the violence all the more brutal.

Actually no, it's not worse. Nobodies' life is worth more than anybody else's in the Rand scheme of things.

That gif annoys me so much.

Martin doesn't write things "the way they are", it's freaking fiction, and historians must facepalm constantly at this supposedly "accurate" description of medieval times.

And there is a difference between killing a character you just met than killing or harming a character you have build up for several episodes/books.

I think it may be because you've misinterpreted it. It has nothing to do with historical accuracy. Hell I'm not even sure that GoT is supposed to exist alongside an actual period of time in the world.

 

[UrbanRats]

And there is a difference between killing a character you just met than killing or harming a character you have build up for several episodes/books.

Yeah, the latter usually carries weight and it's actually interesting.

I don't care about people leaving, they're free to do as they please, and i don't even regard GoT that highly anyway, but as a general rule of thumb, is dumb to expect your heroes to win just because, in spite of what is better for the story, just because you like them.
Leaving because you find the story to be shitty, would make more sense to me.

 

[Cindres]

Yeah, the latter usually carries weight and it's actually interesting.

I don't care about people leaving, they're free to do as they please, and i don't even regard GoT that highly anyway, but as a general rule of thumb, is dumb to expect your heroes to win just because, in spite of what is better for the story, just because you like them.
Leaving because you find the story to be shitty, would make more sense to me.

I still don't really believe this show has any "heroes" as such anymore anyway. I guess maybe aside from Jon.

 

[mantidor]

Yeah, the latter usually carries weight and it's actually interesting.

I don't care about people leaving, they're free to do as they please, and i don't even regard GoT that highly anyway, but as a general rule of thumb, is dumb to expect your heroes to win just because, in spite of what is better for the story, just because you like them.
Leaving because you find the story to be shitty, would make more sense to me.

Most complaints are about the story though.

I really like Ned's arch for instance, it starts with him chopping someone's head off, and ends with his head chopped off. It sucked and it was sad but it show an interesting story and progression, a cruel world and someone who clearly made some mistakes but someone who was doomed to do them. Sansa's arch? Not so much, I'll rather see crap like the guinea pig films, because at least those movies are honest about their intentions.

It just feels the show devolved into this cartoon of portraying someone certain way only to do a 180 to generate shocking youtube reactions videos. Shireen's sacrifice could have been better done, not a simple "I love my daughter" scene on episode followed by the burning the next one.

 

[Cindres]

Most complaints are about the story though.

I really like Ned's arch for instance, it starts with him chopping someone's head off, and ends with his head chopped off. It sucked and it was sad but it show an interesting story and progression, a cruel world and someone who clearly made some mistakes but someone who was doomed to do them. Sansa's arch? Not so much, I'll rather see crap like the guinea pig films, because at least those movies are honest about their intentions.

It just feels the show devolved into this cartoon of portraying someone certain way only to do a 180 to generate shocking youtube reactions videos. Shireen's sacrifice could have been better done, not a simple "I love my daughter" scene on episode followed by the burning the next one.

The Shireen thing mainly bugged me because the lead up was getting too obvious. All of a sudden Stannis is talking to his daughter about how much he loves her and how "she is his daughter" and all this business, well something's up.

 

[Curufinwe]

Most complaints are about the story though.

I really like Ned's arch for instance, it starts with him chopping someone's head off, and ends with his head chopped off. It sucked and it was sad but it show an interesting story and progression, a cruel world and someone who clearly made some mistakes but someone who was doomed to do them. Sansa's arch? Not so much, I'll rather see crap like the guinea pig films, because at least those movies are honest about their intentions.

It just feels the show devolved into this cartoon of portraying someone certain way only to do a 180 to generate shocking youtube reactions videos. Shireen's sacrifice could have been better done, not a simple "I love my daughter" scene on episode followed by the burning the next one.

Sansa's arc isn't over.

 

[Nameless]

I can't tell if a lot of these story/character complaints are people being intentionally reductionist to shit on the show, or if they're just forgetting large swaths of plotlines. The latter happened a lot with LOST.

They've literally been developing Stannis and Shireen since season 3 as well as his conflict over 'crossing the line' to fulfill his destiny. I urge anyone who sees this as a nonsensical 180 that came out of left field to either rewatch the series or go back through this thread and watch some of the clips people have posted.

 

[Curufinwe]

I can't tell if a lot of these story/character complaints are people being intentionally reductionist to shit on the show, or if they're just forgetting large swaths of plotlines.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

There's that and there's the fact that fucking nothing happened in the season up to the Sansa point. To me that's why I was complaining when Sansa's rape scene happened. Character arcs in the first ~6 or so episodes did nothing. They either went backwards or sidestepped for 6 goddamned episodes. Sansa's rape was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, because it was her character arc going backwards. Yay, Sansa gets brutalized by someone else again... because that didn't already happen...


So, yes, less complaints now, but that's because some character arcs are actually moving now. While there's still been a shitstorm about the brutality, and some comments on "would Stannis really?" or not, it's not really the same sort of thing as what happened with Sansa. Stannis deciding to burn Shireen is something new for his character arc. It represents something else. It's moved in another direction.

That's all ignoring the fact that rape is a sensitive real world issue, and there are a lot of advocates focusing on changing culture to help alleviate that problem. While child abuse is obviously also a problem, I think burning a child alive is something so far removed from reality that it's not really popping up on radars in the same way. It's a fantastical story, compared to what Sansa was going through, which is all to real for a lot of people.

How did her character go backwards? She knew what she was getting into (at least for that night, not being held in a room every night) and agreed to it. She wanted to play a role instead of hide and cry, and yet this is moving backwards?! On one hand I coplain about the terrible blatant foreshadowing fan hand holding of season 5 and then I see posts like this. Looks like we need a monologue for Littlefinger to spell it out when he sees Sansa at the end of this season/early next season.

The reason there is more of a shitstorm then than now is because society is full hypocrisy and double standards, especially in North America. It's crazy to be more insulted at rape then a little child getting burned alive while her parents watch. But nice way of justifying it despite it still not making any more sense than it did beforehand.

 

[UrbanRats]

I can't tell if a lot of these story/character complaints are people being intentionally reductionist to shit on the show, or if they're just forgetting large swaths of plotlines. The latter happened a lot with LOST.

They've literally been developing Stannis and Shireen since season 3 as well as his conflict over 'crossing the line' to fulfill his destiny. I urge anyone who sees this as a nonsensical 180 that came out of left field to either rewatch the series or go back through this thread and watch some of the clips people have posted.

I will say, having a show that jumps between 50 plotlines (forgetting some for good in the process) every 5 minutes of screentime, week after week, year after year, is not gonna help things, especially if you follow many shows and watch a lot of movies.
It's actually one structural thing that annoys me about GoT.

I guess something like The Wire might've been similar, but i binge watched that show, so i didn't feel it.

That said, most people saw the Stannis thing come a mile away (basically when they introduced him and his daughter, it was clear things were going to go there) so it didn't feel like a 180 at all to me.

 

[Future]

Or how about the spear guy saving Jorrah rather than waiting for the attacker to kill Jorrah and then make his move.

Sloppy choreography.

Thats some nitpicky shit right there. Tell me you havent played an FPS where you see someone shootin someone down, but you go for the back stab anyway for the easy kill and hopefully a weak remaining opponent. I feel like people just try to hate on this show sometimes

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

Jon is gonna die, isn't he?

That won't make too much sense in the way that nobody will care much about the wall stuff anymore. But this kind of build-up is just way too obvious.

I hope I am dead wrong.

 

[sangreal]

Jon is gonna die, isn't he?

That won't make too much sense in the way that nobody will care much about the wall stuff anymore. But this kind of build-up is just way too obvious.

I hope I am dead wrong.

There is obviously going to be some kind of mutiny but I just don't see him dying

Not before we learn who is mother is, at least

 

[Ushay]

Jon is gonna die, isn't he?

That won't make too much sense in the way that nobody will care much about the wall stuff anymore. But this kind of build-up is just way too obvious.

I hope I am dead wrong.

I dunno, he's been on the edge of dying lately. It doesn't make sense to build his character arc this far to have him die so unceremoniously.

 

[Jackpot]

There is obviously going to be some kind of mutiny but I just don't see him dying

Not before we learn who is mother is, at least

For the moment there's nothing really left for him to do at the wall without repeating the same storylines except have the WW roll up, which won't happen for ages. Send him down south.

 

[sangreal]

For the moment there's nothing really left for him to do at the wall without repeating the same storylines except have the WW roll up, which won't happen for ages. Send him down south.

I could definitely see that happening. In the immediate term, we have Davos coming to try and get him to send supplies -- which I assume has to take place this season, before Stannis marches on Winterfell

Maybe he'll have to flee the wall

 

[Darryl]

He is going to get forced out of the wall then go to reclaim the north for the wildlings sake tbh. He was always going to be the real king of the north. The underdog bastard left to redeem his father. You have to be borderline nuts to think he is at risk of ever dying. A huge chunk of the story will fizzle as there is now just Bran left in the north and he is transcending reality or some shit.