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[poppabk]

It is possible that Brienne considers it her duty to bring him to justice and have him pay for his crimes. Unlikely, but a possibility.

 

[Nekofrog]

i'm 50/50 on stannis being dead. brienne could have just as easily swung her sword into the tree in frustration for some reason, but if she did kill him i don't mind. it sounded like a fleshy swipe.

 

[RDreamer]

i'm 50/50 on stannis being dead. brienne could have just as easily swung her sword into the tree in frustration for some reason, but if she did kill him i don't mind. it sounded like a fleshy swipe.

Rewatch it again. The sound at the end of the swipe is pretty much all on Ramsey, not Brienne. And look at her sword angle. There's no way in fucking hell that's cutting off Stannis's head.

Again, that could be a director that didn't give a fuck about such consistency and just wanted a cooler looking shot...

 

[ComputerBlue]

It is possible that Brienne considers it her duty to bring him to justice and have him pay for his crimes. Unlikely, but a possibility.

She's no longer sworn to Renly though, her oath is now to Cat and protecting her children. It really makes sense when you consider him saying "do your duty" and her realizing that it was no longer her duty to judge Stannis.

 

[RustyNails]

People were questioning the Olly hatewagon on this thread an episode or two ago. Now you all see why we hate the little rat fucker.

Interestingly, Sam is the one that put Olly on the path of Jon's demise; "Sometimes you have to do the right thing even if others dont understand." You see, our hate is misdirected.

Good job Tarly you warmongering sneaky bastard. Got out just in time didn't you.

 

[Sendero]

Stannis.. takes the black. Then, being a seasoned commander, he leads them in battle against the white walkers... thus fulfilling her actual prophecy of a great battle in the snow.

Not sure about the rest, but this is a neat idea.

 

[RDreamer]

I don't mean to overanalyze this, but this is what I'm talking about. That cut isn't taking Stannis's head off.

 

[Zeyphersan]

So I'm confused about how and why Cersei promoted the High Sparrow to the leader of the city's religion. What was her plan? It seemed to backfire in record time

 

[zer0das]

Melisandre is actually sitting in some bushes behind Stannis. Drains his whole body of blood and uses that to resurrect Jon Snow. Stannis becomes a wight because no one bothers to bury or burn his body.

That's roughly how I expect it to go.

 

[Fenderputty]

It still takes a lot of willpower to actually kill someone. The scream she lets out on re-watch is more of an "I can't do this" than a scream of... well... actually doing it.

I'm not sure the reason, honestly. I tend to analyze some of these things with broader writing implications rather than some of the more macro decisions. So when I was thinking up what I typed up there the broader Stannis arc would be much more amazing to me if he lived and did that than if he died and this was the end of his arc. That and I tend to look at more reasons for connecting scenes. In a series where every scene is needed, the scene of Sansa finally lighting the candle isn't really needed unless it's going to pull together to another point. I think it's a fine scene if Stannis dies, it's just it gathers a bit extra if he doesn't, and I kind of think they might have been going in that direction. Not sure.

I guess we'll find out later.

I mean, simply that scene was to exemplify another Brienne fail.

I'm not saying she didn't let him live. I think the theory has merit. But this woman doesn't have an issue with killing and she's on top of him while he's bleeding out.

Like the other poster postulated, maybe she thinks she can use him to barter with or something

 

[BSsBrolly]

Melisandre is actually sitting in some bushes behind Stannis. Drains his whole body of blood and uses that to resurrect Jon Snow. Stannis becomes a wight because no one bothers to bury or burn his body.

That's roughly how I expect it to go.

He was already bleeding out.

 

[RDreamer]

I mean, simply that scene was to exemplify another Brienne fail.

I'm not saying she didn't let him live. I think the theory has merit. But this woman doesn't have an issue with killing and she's on top of him while he's bleeding out.

Like the other poster postulated, maybe she thinks she can use him to barter with or something

Possibly, or she thinks he'll just die anyway... or get grabbed by Ramsey.

Not entirely sure what would really cause it, except that it is kind of a trope that's been used before. A lot of stories have someone with a big vendetta finally get to the act and they just can't do it for whatever reason.

 

[Pagusas]

So I'm confused about how and why Cersei promoted the High Sparrow to the leader of the city's religion. What was her plan? It seemed to backfire in record time

She assumed high sparrow was corruptible with power and wouldnt throw the person who put him there in jail. Her biggest weakness always seems to be her short sidedness.

Her plan was for high sparrow to throw the new queen into jail (along with her brother) and shame them, giving her back control over her son. She obviously didnt think it out any further than that.


That walk of shame was BRUTAL. I wonder if the actress knew she'd have to be doing such a thing when she signed on. Its honestly hard for me to imagine being put in such a vulnerable position, showing the world your whole body, in such a way.

 

[Sendero]

So I'm confused about how and why Cersei promoted the High Sparrow to the leader of the city's religion. What was her plan? It seemed to backfire in record time

To create a powerful ally she could use to force the Tyrell to bend to her will (specially Margery), and take complete control of the Council without their intervention.

In the first episode of this season, she recalls a prophecy from her childhood, that said that she would be cast down by a prettier, younger queen (and all her children would be dead by then), so the implication is that she is becoming increasingly paranoic and thus failing to notice how fast the Faith grown, and that the High Sparrow was not some chum easily manipulable.

 

[Sajjaja]

So I'm confused about how and why Cersei promoted the High Sparrow to the leader of the city's religion. What was her plan? It seemed to backfire in record time

She wanted to fuck over the Tyrells.

 

[Vashetti]

Guys I am fed up of saying this, HBO viewer's guide confirms Stannis is dead, they never lie about this.

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-5/episode-10/people/136/stannis-baratheon

Stannis was killed outside of Winterfell by Brienne of Tarth

Fate clear, cut and dry

Compare to the Hound's page:

Arya left the Hound alone to die

Fate ambiguous

 

[MikeHaggar]

man, what a brutal episode. misery everywhere for everyone. i didn't realize there's only 2 seasons left. assuming 20 episodes things will have to move at such a swift pace to wrap everything up. it will be strange i think.

also, no way jon snow is dead. they've spent too much time hinting at who his parents are (my guess is king robert and ned's sister. i don't think he's a targaryen) and playing up melisandre's interest in him to just kill him off like that. i mean... all of those scenes would be for nothing. just doesn't make sense.

 

[diggmcbadass]

That walk of shame was BRUTAL. I wonder if the actress knew she'd have to be doing such a thing when she signed on. Its honestly hard for me to imagine being put in such a vulnerable position, showing the world your whole body, in such a way.

It was cgi/body double

 

[Sendero]

That walk of shame was BRUTAL. I wonder if the actress knew she'd have to be doing such a thing when she signed on. Its honestly hard for me to imagine being put in such a vulnerable position, showing the world your whole body, in such a way.

Loved it as well. Sad that it took time that was very much needed for other equally important scenes, but the moment was conveyed in a perfect way.

And yes, there is an old interview where she explicitly mention the walk, and how anxious she was to interpret it. They ended up using a body double, though. Which is indeed a shame.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I don't mean to overanalyze this, but this is what I'm talking about. That cut isn't taking Stannis's head off.

You're right, at that angle she's splitting it in half diagonally.

 

[f0nz0]

anyone else expecting his eyes to turn white walker grey??? Anywho, yeah now that I think about it , the hot witch will prob revive him on some "I was wrong about the true king, it wasn't stannnis but youuuu"

 

[Fenderputty]

Yeah I don't think John is dead. His character was built up too much to have done so little.

I do think Stannis is dead. And honestly, I think the way he went out was perfect. He was driven mad with power lust and his supposed fate. He was basically looking around, realizing how badly he failed. He died a shell of a man he was.

 

[super-heated plasma]

hmmmmm...hope yet for Jon Snow??

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/39t7ns/spoilers_all_kit_harington_hints_got_season_6_info/

 

[ComputerBlue]

Guys I am fed up of saying this, HBO viewer's guide confirms Stannis is dead, they never lie about this.

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-5/episode-10/people/136/stannis-baratheon



Fate clear, cut and dry

Compare to the Hound's page:



Fate ambiguous

How else would you word it?

They're not going to come out and say he lived, or that he was left to die because the scene gave the assumption that she was killing him. Why would they spoil it if she didn't? They're saying exactly what the scene was showing.

Arya left The Hound to die because that's exactly what the scene implied, so that's what they recap will say.

 

[Curufinwe]

Guys I am fed up of saying this,

Then stop saying it. It's not going to convince everyone.

 

[RDreamer]

Yeah I don't think John is dead. His character was built up too much to have done so little.

I still think John will be revived. Not only was he built up so much, but they had a bunch of scenes and hints at revival being possible in this world. The Mountain was revived in the same episode John dies, for instance. They went out of their way for Melisandre to meet Thoros and Beric, earlier, too. It would be very odd writing to have revival happen only to tangential characters and never to anyone important. That's usually not how it goes. You use tangential characters to kind of prime the pump and get people ready and used to the idea before springing it on something big. If John isn't that something big, I don't know what is. Melisandre just happened to show back up at the wall the same episode he dies. Yeah, that's no coincidence.

 

[Fenderputty]

I still think John will be revived. Not only was he built up so much, but they had a bunch of scenes and hints at revival being possible in this world. The Mountain was revived in the same episode John dies, for instance. They went out of their way for Melisandre to meet Thoros and Beric, earlier, too. It would be very odd writing to have revival happen only to tangential characters and never to anyone important. That's usually not how it goes. You use tangential characters to kind of prime the pump and get people ready and used to the idea before springing it on something big. If John isn't that something big, I don't know what is. Melisandre just happened to show back up at the wall the same episode he dies. Yeah, that's no coincidence.

She bailed on Stannis too and went straight for Castle Black. This is not coincidence.

She knew the moment she heard his men were turning on him things were bad for Stannis. My question mostly stems from my inability to understand her motives and her visions. It seems like she realized she put her eggs in the wrong basket so to speak. Which would imply a vagueness about her visions.

 

[blazenumb1]

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game...er-1201520137/

Director's response to the question if Melisandre could resurrect Jon, definitely leaves the door open for him to come back IMO.

"Any chance he could be resurrected by Melisandre, who returned to Castle Black"?

"That’s not my concern. My concern was to take care of Jon Snow, and he’s now deader than dead."

To me this pretty much confirms Jon is definitely coming back in some way

 

[Prine]

So is that it for house Barathian ? They've been wiped out?

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game...er-1201520137/

Director's response to the question if Melisandre could resurrect Jon, definitely leaves the door open for him to come back IMO.

"Any chance he could be resurrected by Melisandre, who returned to Castle Black"?

"That’s not my concern. My concern was to take care of Jon Snow, and he’s now deader than dead."

To me this pretty much confirms Jon is definitely coming back in some way

Thanks for posting this

 

[Crimson_Fate]

I actually got the feeling that Melisandre's goal was always to destroy the Baratheon line and any claim to the throne. She tried to take out Gendry, then his Daughter and finally leading to his defeat in battle.

I think it is no coincidence that he was initially defeated by "Wildfire" at the harbor

 

[Ferrio]

I actually got the feeling that Melisandre's goal was always to destroy the Baratheon line and any claim to the throne. She tried to take out Gendry, then his Daughter and finally leading to his defeat in battle.

I think it is no coincidence that he was initially defeated by "Wildfire" at the harbor

I'd of said the same until the last episode. She looked just as defeated as everyone else, she believed it as much as Stannis did.

 

[RustyNails]

What if Onion Knight kills Melisandre for sacrificing Shireen before she gets to revive Jon?

 

[Ted Striker]

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game...er-1201520137/

Director's response to the question if Melisandre could resurrect Jon, definitely leaves the door open for him to come back IMO.

"Any chance he could be resurrected by Melisandre, who returned to Castle Black"?

"That’s not my concern. My concern was to take care of Jon Snow, and he’s now deader than dead."

To me this pretty much confirms Jon is definitely coming back in some way

Also from the article :

"There’s also speculation about whether Stannis is truly dead. We didn’t see Brienne deliver that final, fatal blow.

I think that was basically in the script. Dan and David felt it best not to be gratuitous with that. You really got a sense that Stannis had nothing else to live for. Brienne’s life-long mission had come to an end. It’s a situation in which Stannis was ready to die and prepared to die. It would have been gratuitous."

 

[DeathByBacklog]

Has this been done already?

Feel free to re-size it.

 

[Vashetti]

Then stop saying it. It's not going to convince everyone.

I'm just fed up of reading posts from people wondering whether Stannis is dead when HBO's viewer guide confirms it.

Plus we have this interview with Gwendoline Christie (Brienne) who also confirms it:

Her hopes for Brienne’s future?

"One, is that there’s all of Stannis’s army there without a leader now, and they’ve actually become disillusioned by him due to his action toward his daughter. It would be fantastic if perhaps Brienne decided she would be best served as a leader and led the army. Or let’s not forget that she has Valyrian steel."

Christie has confirmed that Brienne has avenged Renly and that Stannis’s army is without a leader, so I think we can put the debate about Stannis’s fate to rest. The cutaway to Ramsay executing a soldier similar to how Brienne was killing Stannis struck me as a poetic editing choice but it caused some confusion in viewers. I believe we can consider Stannis confirmed dead with Christie’s words. Though some Stannis hardcore fans will remain resolutely stubborn, in the manner of the Mannis himself.

Stannis is dead. 100%. Accept it.

 

[Brojito]

Also from the article :

"There’s also speculation about whether Stannis is truly dead. We didn’t see Brienne deliver that final, fatal blow.

I think that was basically in the script. Dan and David felt it best not to be gratuitous with that. You really got a sense that Stannis had nothing else to live for. Brienne’s life-long mission had come to an end. It’s a situation in which Stannis was ready to die and prepared to die. It would have been gratuitous."

I'm pretty sure Stannis is dead. I don't think they intended that to be so ambiguous. The problem for me was the lead-up to it... it was entirely too short. It made the whole thing feel rushed. The whole cut-away with Brienne swinging the sword probably would have worked better if it was paced better from the beginning, but that all happened within like 15 minutes of the episode beginning. Should have been the end of the last episode, IMO.

 

[MjFrancis]

I short recap of where I see things as of now - Stannis' ambition for the throne killed him, his arc make sense. What Season 6 will explore is Brianne's decision to fulfill her oath to Renly over her oath to protect Sansa. Sansa and Reek appear to commit suicide, I think the death itself wasn't shown because showrunners just fucking love a LOST-style cliffhanger. Ramsey may have won the battle but Sansa's suicide just lost him the war. They have no claim to the North and will have to keep it subdued by brute force until the White Walkers just mow everyone over on their way South.

But back to Brianne - she will learn that Sansa is dead because she chose one duty over the other and it will tear her apart from the inside. Stannis was dead no matter what she did, and whether or not she ever learns that Sansa lit a candle just moments after she left to fulfill her first oath, she will be devastated for having forever failed Catelyn Stark.

I'm interested in Petyr Baelish's reaction to all of this - he was hedging his bets but was gambling that Sansa would survive whatever horrors Ramsay would inflict upon her. The Stark women being his soft spot, he will also be upset about this, but in a more "my property was taken from me" sort that we've become accustomed to from a guy everyone calls Littlefinger. Or maybe I'm wrong and he does take it more personally, and I can't forget that he has been the best at playing this game, with a whole Kingdom at his helm and an alliance with the Tyrells that will probably only be strengthened as Cersei unleashes her inevitable rampage.

On Cersei... while she is unlikable to so many extents I am so looking forward to her King's Landing rampage.

Very interested in what happens with Tyrion and Varys. Season two redux? I'm okay with that. Less interested in what happens with Danerys. It's been said before, but her arc is moving slowly and she couldn't govern her way through a high school election.

And Jon Snow is dead. Real dead. But Melisandre had Shireen sacrificed not for Stannis' sake, but for Jon Snow's sake. That's why everything went downhill for him - she has bigger plans for Jon Snow, and I am willing to bet that we're going to see a pretty boy zombie on the North Wall come Season 6. If that isn't the case, the story will focus on Melisandre and there is no way she is letting that Jon Snow blood go to waste. She's as manipulative as Littlefinger, she's going to make things happen.

 

[Ferrio]

But back to Brianne - she will learn that Sansa is dead because she chose one duty over the other and it will tear her apart from the inside. Stannis was dead no matter what she did, and whether or not she ever learns that Sansa lit a candle just moments after she left to fulfill her first oath, she will be devastated for having forever failed Catelyn Stark.
.

Good call.

 

[Vashetti]

No way they killed Sansa and Theon off-screen, they clearly survived.

 

[Bisnic]

I short recap of where I see things as of now - Stannis' ambition for the throne killed him, his arc make sense. What Season 6 will explore is Brianne's decision to fulfill her oath to Renly over her oath to protect Sansa. Sansa and Reek appear to commit suicide, I think the death itself wasn't shown because showrunners just fucking love a LOST-style cliffhanger. Ramsey may have won the battle but Sansa's suicide just lost him the war. They have no claim to the North and will have to keep it subdued by brute force until the White Walkers just mow everyone over on their way South.

I'm pretty sure Sansa & Theon are still alive. Sure they jumped from a ridiculous high spot that would have killed them in any other season than winter, but the snow should have been enough to stop their deadly fall.

 

[DeathByBacklog]

Sansa and Reek appear to commit suicide, I think the death itself wasn't shown because showrunners just fucking love a LOST-style cliffhanger.

I said this a bunch of times already. Sansa's not dead. Bran fell from the tower onto bare ground and lived. Theon and Sansa jumped into a snow bank. They live.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I short recap of where I see things as of now - Stannis' ambition for the throne killed him, his arc make sense. What Season 6 will explore is Brianne's decision to fulfill her oath to Renly over her oath to protect Sansa. Sansa and Reek appear to commit suicide, I think the death itself wasn't shown because showrunners just fucking love a LOST-style cliffhanger. Ramsey may have won the battle but Sansa's suicide just lost him the war. They have no claim to the North and will have to keep it subdued by brute force until the White Walkers just mow everyone over on their way South.

But back to Brianne - she will learn that Sansa is dead because she chose one duty over the other and it will tear her apart from the inside. Stannis was dead no matter what she did, and whether or not she ever learns that Sansa lit a candle just moments after she left to fulfill her first oath, she will be devastated for having forever failed Catelyn Stark.

I'm interested in Petyr Baelish's reaction to all of this - he was hedging his bets but was gambling that Sansa would survive whatever horrors Ramsay would inflict upon her. The Stark women being his soft spot, he will also be upset about this, but in a more "my property was taken from me" sort that we've become accustomed to from a guy everyone calls Littlefinger. Or maybe I'm wrong and he does take it more personally, and I can't forget that he has been the best at playing this game, with a whole Kingdom at his helm and an alliance with the Tyrells that will probably only be strengthened as Cersei unleashes her inevitable rampage.

On Cersei... while she is unlikable to so many extents I am so looking forward to her King's Landing rampage.

Very interested in what happens with Tyrion and Varys. Season two redux? I'm okay with that. Less interested in what happens with Danerys. It's been said before, but her arc is moving slowly and she couldn't govern her way through a high school election.

And Jon Snow is dead. Real dead. But Melisandre had Shireen sacrificed not for Stannis' sake, but for Jon Snow's sake. That's why everything went downhill for him - she has bigger plans for Jon Snow, and I am willing to bet that we're going to see a pretty boy zombie on the North Wall come Season 6. If that isn't the case, the story will focus on Melisandre and there is no way she is letting that Jon Snow blood go to waste. She's as manipulative as Littlefinger, she's going to make things happen.

Zero chance Sansa is dead, or Theon for that matter.

It would be horribly stupid to show them jumping into a completely survivable snowbank (The fall was like 5 stories max) and then just have the next season start with them dead.

 

[MMBosstones86]

Yeah with Stannis

Spoiler

allegedly

dead, is there anyone who even gives a shit about the throne anymore?

 

[Gandie]

Has this been done already?


Feel free to re-size it.

So Arya losing her eye sight as a consequence of taking his eyes? Just a thought.

 

[MMBosstones86]

I short recap of where I see things as of now - Stannis' ambition for the throne killed him, his arc make sense. What Season 6 will explore is Brianne's decision to fulfill her oath to Renly over her oath to protect Sansa. Sansa and Reek appear to commit suicide, I think the death itself wasn't shown because showrunners just fucking love a LOST-style cliffhanger. Ramsey may have won the battle but Sansa's suicide just lost him the war. They have no claim to the North and will have to keep it subdued by brute force until the White Walkers just mow everyone over on their way South.

There is a higher chance of Serio being alive than Sansa/Theek suiciding.

 

[RDreamer]

Yeah with Stannis

Spoiler

allegedly

dead, is there anyone who even gives a shit about the throne anymore?

 

[Gigglepoo]

It's going to be super creepy when Bran inhabits Jon's body.

 

[Curufinwe]

Sansa and Reek appear to commit suicide

No they don't. They showed the snow before they jumped for a reason.

Also, it's Brienne.

 

[Fenderputty]

I actually got the feeling that Melisandre's goal was always to destroy the Baratheon line and any claim to the throne. She tried to take out Gendry, then his Daughter and finally leading to his defeat in battle.

I think it is no coincidence that he was initially defeated by "Wildfire" at the harbor

I've thought this multiple times myself. I question her motives enough that I've thought the story Arc wasn't actually Stannis's but rather hers. Even the sacrifice of his daughter ...

It would also mean her visions aren't vague, just her motives.

 

[Ted Striker]

I short recap of where I see things as of now - Stannis' ambition for the throne killed him, his arc make sense. What Season 6 will explore is Brianne's decision to fulfill her oath to Renly over her oath to protect Sansa. Sansa and Reek appear to commit suicide, I think the death itself wasn't shown because showrunners just fucking love a LOST-style cliffhanger. Ramsey may have won the battle but Sansa's suicide just lost him the war. They have no claim to the North and will have to keep it subdued by brute force until the White Walkers just mow everyone over on their way South.

But back to Brianne - she will learn that Sansa is dead because she chose one duty over the other and it will tear her apart from the inside. Stannis was dead no matter what she did, and whether or not she ever learns that Sansa lit a candle just moments after she left to fulfill her first oath, she will be devastated for having forever failed Catelyn Stark

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-5-finale-jon-stannis-deaths-david-nutter-1201520137/

"Is it safe to assume they (Theon and Sansa) survived that jump?

I would say it’s safe to assume they survived that jump"