Oh look, Stannis confirmed dead again.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 5 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
- Status
Oh look, Stannis confirmed dead again.
Perhaps it's becuase those that passed or were killed didn't fulfil what is expected, look I don't mind them getting killed off but at least show a story with a character that makes it that isn't dipicable, lord knows how Tywin, Ned, Robert achieved their age given every breath they breath is a gift in that God forsaken world. The fact Jon defeated a WW with Valerian steel and then done nothing with it or was recognised for it, no meetings with NW seniors to discuss the new threat, hes quickly killed off. A character can move a story along just by bumping into someone and changing their fate, the whole point is to follow the lucky few that achieve greatness, I don't buy your justification mate, sorry :/
I guess I'm really frustrated after 4 years of waiting for something to happen.
It's like the Empire Strikes Back where Luke just messed everything up by leaving Dagobah. Brianne was watching Sansa like a hawk, and literally the moment she stops doing what she is supposed to be doing everything goes wrong.
I don't know that Sansa has the plot armor to survive a fifty foot fall, snow bank or not. If she lives, great, she's got broken bones and can't run and Ramsay catches her immediately and continues to brutalize and torture her on a daily basis. Moreso for killing his favorite. Even into a snow bank jumping feet first fifty feet to the ground doesn't bode well for the ankles.
If she survives intact, that will be the biggest break a Stark has ever gotten in this show.
Resorting to suicide at such a prospect doesn't sound far-fetched.
DeathByBacklog
Member
This is what I thought also. That she was trying to take down Stannis for the benefit of someone else. But unless she's faking the grief she had when she went back tot he wall... You'd think they'd at least show her smirking or something after talking to Davos.
The girl just found out she has two younger brothers still out there. Why would she kill herself?
Doesn't make sense at all.
Crimson_Fate
Member
The grief may be real but remember , she is following her visions so its the "Gods" motives which are relevant. She is just a puppet doing as she's told so it is very possible that her visions told to leave when she did and only then realized what was going to happen to Stannis.
Yup. And the way the shot was framed it looked like the tower behind them where Bran fell off was 2x higher. So if Bran survived that without snow Sansa won't be dead now either.
Maybe I'm just reading too much into Littlefinger's assessment of Brienne's abilities as a sworn protector of folk - she does a pretty shitty job of it every time, despite her best intentions. She's a good guy - good guy's don't win in this show.
Best case scenario for Sansa is Ramsay catches her immediately, the only person in the immediate vicinity who can save her is Brienne - is she going to stop the army that just ran over Stannis? They are right there and there is nothing around Winterfell but wide open spaces and dead Baratheon men. Deus ex machina right there.
Best case scenario for Sansa is Ramsay catches her immediately, the only person in the immediate vicinity who can save her is Brienne - is she going to stop the army that just ran over Stannis? They are right there and there is nothing around Winterfell but wide open spaces and dead Baratheon men. Deus ex machina right there.
Ted Striker
Neo Member
As if anyone in Harrenhal knew how Arya looks like.
Sansa isn't dead, but I can still see Brienne getting upset cause she missed seeing her flee.
Littlefinger did and somehow didn't notice her. But Tywin knew right away she was a girl of around Arya's age, and he knew that Arya was missing. Those scenes between them were great so I don't mind, but it was a huge break.
Fenderputty
Banned
Being back in the company of Ramsay is never a best case scenario. I would rather die of starvation in the freezing woods that go back to Ramsay.
DeathByBacklog
Member
Here see? He's dead.
You and everyone else here!
Still, when she survives I'm going to be calling her Sansa "Mary Poppins" Stark.
ComputerBlue
Member
Why is it so hard to let people speculate, why are you so adamant on stopping every theory or discussion about the possibility of his fate? Let them discuss. But more importantly, she says his army is without a leader which does not prove anything, half of them bailed on him before the battle, the majority of the others who stayed to fight are dead, if not all.
cormack12
Gold Member
Ok, the end of the season so I have a jumble of thoughts that I'll spew out and hope they form some nice coherent ramble.
Jon - I find it hard to believe he will remain dead. So yes, at the moment he is 'dead'. But in an episode where blood magic was mentioned specifically, the last scene was of his blood leaking into the snow. It was in fact the focal point of the closing shot as Jon's last breath let out. I think Davos will find him, he's pretty switched on and has a good nose for danger (Shireen/Gendry etc.), and he will fetch the red lady. He'll scream pleadingly with some sort of taunt to get her to try and heal him. I think she'll surprise herself by being able to resurrect him. He'll be weak and will be taken from the Wall (possibly to Sam who will finish up some work on him?, or maybe Tormund).
Stannis - The great debate. I'm torn on this, there is good plot/reason for either outcome. Brienne's duty changed but she holds her oath sacred. The sword is even named Oathkeeper - named after the duty she swore to Jaime to protect the Stark girls with a Stark sword. I think Pod might have attempted to stop the blow, and tell her that the candle has been lit. Brienne might even notice it herself. There's also the larger implication that Stannis is the truer king of Westeros, and if she has indeed lopped his head off, then Brienne has effectively become a 'Kingslayer' herself.
Jamie - Which brings me onto Jaime. This guy is such a waste of skin in the series since he lost his hand. He's done nothing to deserve his place in any scenes. You think after losing a hand, he would adapt. Either he would train harder with his left, or he would change his role/study to be more political - even if he was a diplomat or ambassador. But he just seems to be in the show because he was in it earlier. Bringing Myrcella back was meant to be a personal quest, but the last scene was meant to be some sort of big emotional scene. After being vilified by everyone, his own daughter accepts him, and then dies in his arms. But the build up was so poor and the ham-fisted acting and choreography of everything in Dorne just robbed the whole plotline of any impact. I honestly don't care what happens to him at this point. I care more for Bronn.
Daenerys - Drogon flying her away to that remote place to that tribe of Dothraki (horse masters gives it away a bit) has bigger implicatons. At first I thought he wouldn't rise because he was too injured, but I now think he believes that this is Dany's true place. I also think back to the prophecy made in ?season 1? - I don't think the unborn child was the baby that died. I think the prophecy was really referring to Drogon, still in the egg...
I think there was also something about leading the largest khalasar ever. Well, that was a pretty large one. With a force that large, dragons and loyalists in Meereen then Dany is well on course to fulfil that prophecy.
Varys - Appearing with Tyrion just completely uplifted that entire segment. Show's exactly why you need some mainstays and not need to kill everyone.
Cersei - The walk of shame was brutal. However, it was a calculated confession. She probably did't think it would affect her as deeply as it did. She probably thought she could just shrug it off. She had a chance to grow, but every step closer to the keep was the promise of retribution and that was what glinted in her eye as she was carried away by the Mountain. Which leads onto :-
Myrcella - she's now dead and with Cersei already enraged, her eye may turn to Dorne. They will have the young Prince at King's landing and Ellaria will probably be hoping for his death by Cersei's hand. Then she gets the war she so badly wants. It also brings into focus the Mountain/Martell conflict again. Cersei will not be able to fight the High Sparrow and Dorne at once. I can't see Tommen declaring war unless he is reunited with Margaery. Maybe she is released on account of being pregnant with Tommen's heir (my speculation - not hinted at by the show).
Tommen - Kid's going to die. For some reason I think Gendry is going to show up and take his life.
Sansa and Theon - I'm not sure if the way back to the wall is too harsh. Stannis seemed to think so. Sansa would probably head straight there for Jon, but I think she'll be picked up by Brienne. Again it sets up a possible thread of Brienne seeing the red lady and perhaps seeking retribution.
Boltons - where did the entire force come from there? Stannis lost half his army, and 500 sellswords earlier. Yet even with those maths, looking at the two armies at the end, and I struggle to see how Stannis had the larger force anyway. It would have at least been much, much closer than what was being hinted at.
Arya - I sort of knew it was going to end badly for her for ignoring the instruction. Blind is a harsh punishment though. I don't think it will be permanent. I think she'll get it back when she finally kills the guy she was meant to.
Tyrion - It will be interesting to see how he reacts. Usually he's fighting against the odds, trying to prove people wrong or fighting against prejudice. Now he has been given a chance and an expectation.
Littlefinger - was disappointed to not see him, even in a cameo.
Jon - I find it hard to believe he will remain dead. So yes, at the moment he is 'dead'. But in an episode where blood magic was mentioned specifically, the last scene was of his blood leaking into the snow. It was in fact the focal point of the closing shot as Jon's last breath let out. I think Davos will find him, he's pretty switched on and has a good nose for danger (Shireen/Gendry etc.), and he will fetch the red lady. He'll scream pleadingly with some sort of taunt to get her to try and heal him. I think she'll surprise herself by being able to resurrect him. He'll be weak and will be taken from the Wall (possibly to Sam who will finish up some work on him?, or maybe Tormund).
Stannis - The great debate. I'm torn on this, there is good plot/reason for either outcome. Brienne's duty changed but she holds her oath sacred. The sword is even named Oathkeeper - named after the duty she swore to Jaime to protect the Stark girls with a Stark sword. I think Pod might have attempted to stop the blow, and tell her that the candle has been lit. Brienne might even notice it herself. There's also the larger implication that Stannis is the truer king of Westeros, and if she has indeed lopped his head off, then Brienne has effectively become a 'Kingslayer' herself.
Jamie - Which brings me onto Jaime. This guy is such a waste of skin in the series since he lost his hand. He's done nothing to deserve his place in any scenes. You think after losing a hand, he would adapt. Either he would train harder with his left, or he would change his role/study to be more political - even if he was a diplomat or ambassador. But he just seems to be in the show because he was in it earlier. Bringing Myrcella back was meant to be a personal quest, but the last scene was meant to be some sort of big emotional scene. After being vilified by everyone, his own daughter accepts him, and then dies in his arms. But the build up was so poor and the ham-fisted acting and choreography of everything in Dorne just robbed the whole plotline of any impact. I honestly don't care what happens to him at this point. I care more for Bronn.
Daenerys - Drogon flying her away to that remote place to that tribe of Dothraki (horse masters gives it away a bit) has bigger implicatons. At first I thought he wouldn't rise because he was too injured, but I now think he believes that this is Dany's true place. I also think back to the prophecy made in ?season 1? - I don't think the unborn child was the baby that died. I think the prophecy was really referring to Drogon, still in the egg...
I think there was also something about leading the largest khalasar ever. Well, that was a pretty large one. With a force that large, dragons and loyalists in Meereen then Dany is well on course to fulfil that prophecy.
Varys - Appearing with Tyrion just completely uplifted that entire segment. Show's exactly why you need some mainstays and not need to kill everyone.
Cersei - The walk of shame was brutal. However, it was a calculated confession. She probably did't think it would affect her as deeply as it did. She probably thought she could just shrug it off. She had a chance to grow, but every step closer to the keep was the promise of retribution and that was what glinted in her eye as she was carried away by the Mountain. Which leads onto :-
Myrcella - she's now dead and with Cersei already enraged, her eye may turn to Dorne. They will have the young Prince at King's landing and Ellaria will probably be hoping for his death by Cersei's hand. Then she gets the war she so badly wants. It also brings into focus the Mountain/Martell conflict again. Cersei will not be able to fight the High Sparrow and Dorne at once. I can't see Tommen declaring war unless he is reunited with Margaery. Maybe she is released on account of being pregnant with Tommen's heir (my speculation - not hinted at by the show).
Tommen - Kid's going to die. For some reason I think Gendry is going to show up and take his life.
Sansa and Theon - I'm not sure if the way back to the wall is too harsh. Stannis seemed to think so. Sansa would probably head straight there for Jon, but I think she'll be picked up by Brienne. Again it sets up a possible thread of Brienne seeing the red lady and perhaps seeking retribution.
Boltons - where did the entire force come from there? Stannis lost half his army, and 500 sellswords earlier. Yet even with those maths, looking at the two armies at the end, and I struggle to see how Stannis had the larger force anyway. It would have at least been much, much closer than what was being hinted at.
Arya - I sort of knew it was going to end badly for her for ignoring the instruction. Blind is a harsh punishment though. I don't think it will be permanent. I think she'll get it back when she finally kills the guy she was meant to.
Tyrion - It will be interesting to see how he reacts. Usually he's fighting against the odds, trying to prove people wrong or fighting against prejudice. Now he has been given a chance and an expectation.
Littlefinger - was disappointed to not see him, even in a cameo.
xaosslug
Member
yeah, I'm thinking he's not dead either...
ComputerBlue
Member
So what's going to happen to all those dead soldiers out in the field since they've just left them there to rot?
Are they going to turn into Wights?
Are they going to turn into Wights?
cormack12
Gold Member
A feast. For crows.
TheRagnCajun
Member
I don't care if Stannis is dead or alive. What is he going to do? His army is dead/deserted/scattered, his family line is broken, Melisandre left him. He is a lame duck if still alive.
I'm wondering what happens when Jamie and Bronn get back to King's Landing having failed their mission (assuming they don't turn around and go back to Dorne). Will they start war with Dorne? Or just hold the boy hostage? Something tells me the power is going to slip away from Cersei and her king son pretty soon. Too much going on with House Tyrell, Littlefinger and even her council. Grand Maester Pycelle gave Cersei a look after the walk of shame. Plus Tommen is actually kind of a decent natured guy so you know he will die.
I'm wondering what happens when Jamie and Bronn get back to King's Landing having failed their mission (assuming they don't turn around and go back to Dorne). Will they start war with Dorne? Or just hold the boy hostage? Something tells me the power is going to slip away from Cersei and her king son pretty soon. Too much going on with House Tyrell, Littlefinger and even her council. Grand Maester Pycelle gave Cersei a look after the walk of shame. Plus Tommen is actually kind of a decent natured guy so you know he will die.
If a full White Walker comes near and raise them, yes. They do not seem to convert into zombies automatically.
What it is not clear, is how much time can pass since someone dies, to the conversion. The army has skeletons, but it might be possible they were raised long time ago, and just decayed in that time.
But yes, the wide cam shot on all the battlefield gave the vibe that all those corpses might eventually become part of the night army.
ComputerBlue
Member
What about Benjen's party? They brought back their dead bodies to the wall and they reanimated. Also, why would they be so strict on burning everyone who dies, even their own men, well before they knew about that one White Walker who could raise the dead.
I'm thinking the Boltons are fucked.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Stannis saw everything backfire, had his battle in the snow, and Brienne has been dying to get even for a while now.
As far as I'm concerned, his story is done. Besides, it's not as if he has anything to live for anymore, after seeing his wife's suicide, and the fact that half his army ran off after he did what he thought was 'the right thing to do'.
Melisandre going back and subsequent events make it pretty obvious that
As far as I'm concerned, his story is done. Besides, it's not as if he has anything to live for anymore, after seeing his wife's suicide, and the fact that half his army ran off after he did what he thought was 'the right thing to do'.
Melisandre going back and subsequent events make it pretty obvious that
Jon's not going to be dead for long though. And even if
, the undead curse probably would allow him to ryze fwom zhe gwaaaaafe
she didn't
People can complain all they want about Jon's death, but at least they showed it on-screen. Stannis' death is just dumb and we have to resort to some wiki page to confirm that he is indeed dead. I'm sure they'll show him dead in the first episode of next season, but I'm definitely a bit annoyed with how they dealt with it.
RustyNails
Member
Myrcella dying on the boat was dumb. Why couldn't Jaime simply turn the ship around? Prince Doran is a reasonable man. He does not need to pay the price for Ellaria's stupidity. Unfortunately, he's gonna get his head rolled by the Kingsguard for slaying the King's sister and Sand Snakes are gonna get away with it.
Fenderputty
Banned
It's crazy to me that people actually care if they see Stannis's head chopped off or not. He died a shell of himself on a failed battle field having lost everything in pursuit of the throne. Brienne taking him out over what was a major contributing factor for Stannis to start his campaign for the throne is poetic justice.
Joel Was Right
Gold Member
Should've left him on that farm.
He needs to be the 1st to go on the Premier. The betrayalton was too much
Fenderputty
Banned
I mean we don't know what he does with the ship since it ended cliffhanger status. I assume turning it around when they have Dorne's heir to the throne in their possession would be stupid. They can leverage more out of Doran that way.
RustyNails
Member
I stopped watching season promos after season 3. Too much being given away.
RustyNails
Member
Too much alpha at Castle Black. Stannis, revived Jon Snow, Edd, Tormund and Wun Wun. The wall will break.
In retrospect the S5 trailers were crazy, we knew from the offset that Dany and her crew would be surrounded in the fighting pits.
Selyse distraught on the ground was from Shireen's burning. All the fighting scenes at Hardhome.
Sansa in Winterfell.
Summer Haze
Banned
Has there not been any "outrage" at the Meryn Trant child whipping scene? I was shocked they actually got away with showing that, and thought there would be much more controversy in the media.
I think everyone realized it could have been much worse and was grateful it wasn't.
RustyNails
Member
Season 4 was worse. People knew Oberyn was gonna be Tyrion's champion and how his trial was gonna play out.
Summer Haze
Banned
True that, but I was still really shocked that they were allowed to show what they did.
They did four trailers for Season 4, crazy. We only got two this year. Marketing was very downplayed this time around.
Fenderputty
Banned
The dude got his eyes stabbed out, chest stabbed and throat cut in a slow fashion. Any anger one might have had probably dissipated quickly. I sure know I was fucking cheering lol.
Remember the scene where Cat looked as if she was going to kill Jamie Lannister in front of Brienne, but cuts his bonds instead in an attempt to save her daughters? The scene where Stannis allegedly dies and Brienne swings in rage while the camera cuts away seemed very similar.
Stannis is alive 100% confirmed, pass it on!
Stannis is alive 100% confirmed, pass it on!
never cared for Stannis so screw him
DeathByBacklog
Member
Nah, the media is ridiculously selective with what it chooses to be outraged at and what it doesn't, with no logical pattern to their decisions of what is OK and what isn't.
Summer Haze
Banned
Seems that way. Really odd considering the US is usually so strict when it comes to anything sex-related.
Well no one was naked so it felt more like a violence thing, which no one in the US gives a shit about. If anyone was naked you'd see a different response.
- Status