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[RustyNails]

He lost half of his men. He would've been < 1000 men even if he had all of them. Just talking about the scope of this universe.

No, he was not down to half of his men. His soldiers started deserting when they were stuck in the snow. Many horses died too. Strike 1. Ramsay's raid crippled Stannis camp. Many people died, all the horses dead. Strike 2. Half of the remaining camp fled after they witnessed Shireen's death. Strike 3. His final remaining army was hungry, disillusioned, lacking morale and only few in numbers.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I think the whole stannis scene was overall done way too fast. You can see where they were trying to lead up and build context but in the end it felt so cheap. Should've spread a bit across some episodes. I wonder who's bright idea it was to show virtually none of the battle that they hyped for like half the season.

The showed plenty to give the impact of the battle without showing the battle itself. Look at the scenes before, you had scenes of the Bolton's troops all preparing for battle. Then they had Stannis' morning scene with half of his troops left, and all the horses gone. Bolton's army was all mounted and Stannis' men were clearly all worn out from a lack of supplies and walking. When the showed the disparity in sizes, the battle's outcome was already given so we really didn't need them to dwell on the battle itself.

 

[Huesos]

I've read most of gaf's reaction from jon's death, and I feel like people just can't cope with the fact that he's dead.

If it helps you cope better to believe that he will come back to GOT, then by all means

But just a warning, its not a good idea to be so hopeful in this show

Are you willing to bet money on it?

 

[diggmcbadass]

Targyrean supporter. But yes, a lot of people have short memories.

To be fair, remembering every character and placing them into context from season 1 is a lot to expect from the average viewer. This is just one short scene where the focus is more on Arya anyway. When I rewatched season 1 recently, I went "oh, that was this guy" a bunch of times every episode.

 

[nubbe]

Whom is warden of the Stormlands now then?

 

[soundscream]

I've read most of gaf's reaction from jon's death, and I feel like people just can't cope with the fact that he's dead.

If it helps you cope better to believe that he will come back to GOT, then by all means

But just a warning, its not a good idea to be so hopeful in this show

I see people posting this but it's not the reason why.

There are plenty of characters who get dropped with unfinished story archs, but for the most part they have not been part of the main cast.

If john is dead, dead then his mother's identity, his discovery of his swords potential, Davos and Meli both being at castle black with no more leading force, will all basically be for nothing. And this isn't from a Snow fan, but that would just be horrible writing. All the other deaths have been fine, but this would just be stupid.

 

[Nameless]

What I want to happen:

Melisandre lays Longclaw on the pyre and begins to chant. Jon's Targaryen blood 'activates' when his corpse is set on fire. He emerges from the flames like a phoenix, a very very pissed off phoenix, and cuts down each mutineer with his flaming sword, fire in his eyes-- he slays Olly last. The new Warrior of Light rallies the North & the Wildlings behind him to battle the White Walkers.

What I don't to happen:

Jon is permadead. The Night's Watch lose The Wall to the Night's King. The Army of the Dead decimates the Boltons and overrun the North. Bran and Daeny play saviour like a shittty fusion of Harry Potter and Eragon.

 

[RustyNails]

What I want to happen:

Melisandre lays Longclaw on the pyre and begins to chant. Jon's Targaryen blood 'activates' when his corpse is set on fire. He emerges from the flames like a phoenix, a very very pissed off phoenix, and cuts down each mutineer with his flaming sword, fire in his eyese-- he slays Olly last. The new Warrior of Light rallies the North & the Wildlings behind him to battle the White Walkers.

What I don't to happen:

Jon is permadead. The Night's Watch lose The Wall to the Night's King. The Army of the Dead decimates the Boltons and overrun the North. Bran and Daeny play saviour like a shittty fusion of Harry Potter and Eragon.

Knowing GRRM, the second scenario will happen and Olly becomes the lord commander

 

[Blader]

Whom is warden of the Stormlands now then?

Isn't it, effectively, Walder Frey? I assume actual control falls to Edmure Tully, but he's basically a prisoner of the Freys.

 

[MMBosstones86]

I've read most of gaf's reaction from jon's death, and I feel like people just can't cope with the fact that he's dead.

If it helps you cope better to believe that he will come back to GOT, then by all means

But just a warning, its not a good idea to be so hopeful in this show

If he's dead dead....it's awful story telling. Especially after the clues this season about his lineage and see the sword in action. Plus the whole stare down with the Night King would all be a waste of half the season.

 

[blazenumb1]

What I want to happen:

Melisandre lays Longclaw on the pyre and begins to chant. Jon's Targaryen blood 'activates' when his corpse is set on fire. He emerges from the flames like a phoenix, a very very pissed off phoenix, and cuts down each mutineer with his flaming sword, fire in his eyese-- he slays Olly last. The new Warrior of Light rallies the North & the Wildlings behind him to battle the White Walkers.

What I don't to happen:

Jon is permadead. The Night's Watch lose The Wall to the Night's King. The Army of the Dead decimates the Boltons and overrun the North. Bran and Daeny play saviour like a shittty fusion of Harry Potter and Eragon.

I agree with wanting Jon to come back and I have no doubt he will in some fashion. I just don't see him slaughtering everyone when he comes back, he is very much like Ned Stark(for better or worse). He has always been about seeing the bigger picture and killing more people in night's watch doesn't help them against the white walkers.

 

[Portugeezer]

Well, they didn't burn Jon Snow yet, so until then I will hold out hope that he will become a white walker and then there will be some cure and he comes back to life lol... who knows.

 

[Pankratous]

That Sparrow guy has too much power..

 

[MikeHaggar]

If he's dead dead....it's awful story telling. Especially after the clues this season about his lineage and see the sword in action. Plus the whole stare down with the Night King would all be a waste of half the season.

agreed. more importantly, it's wasted screen time and makes no sense. there's been entire scenes dedicated to the mystery of his heritage and melisandre's interest in him. he may be dead, but in one way or another he still has a part to play in things. at the very least melisandre uses his blood for something...

 

[pel1300]

wtf is with all these people wanting Jon to come back as a White Walker?

I want Jon to come back the same way Beric came back - retaining his human form and mind. Coming back as some White Walker or Fire Monster is no better than him being permadead.

 

[Hero Prinny]

Some cunt on my steam friendlist spoiled that jon died by literally changing his steam name to "Jon dies FUCK", Hes no longer on my friends list. Sucks thatjon died and arya is now blind theyre my favorite characters since season 1.

Edit: I do agree that its pretty bad storytelling to have all these hints about him and last week's scene against the white walker just to throw it all away, but oh well, what are we supposed to do about it

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

If he's dead dead....it's awful story telling. Especially after the clues this season about his lineage and see the sword in action. Plus the whole stare down with the Night King would all be a waste of half the season.

That's the oppisite of awful story telling, it's actually a literary device called a Red Herring that's used to deceive the audience into a false conclusion based on clues.

IE: Jon can't die because the mystery of his parents is yet to be resolved. Jon dies.

But honestly, I don't think he's staying dead, but I would fucking love it if they have the balls to really kill him and just roll with the consequences of that action.

 

[Easy_D]

THIS FUCKING SHOW. A super heartfelt moment between Jaime and Myrcella and then *that* happens. Fucking hell.

Fathers of Westeros beware, it's daughter killing season

 

[Nameless]

Knowing GRRM, the second scenario will happen and Olly becomes the lord commander

Fuck Olly

I agree with wanting Jon to come back and I have no doubt he will in some fashion. I just don't see him slaughtering everyone when he comes back, he is very much like Ned Stark(for better or worse). He has always been about seeing the bigger picture and killing more people in night's watch doesn't help them against the white walkers.

We've seen Jon kill Men of The Watch before: the mutineers who turned on Mormont, and Janos Slynt who betrayed his father and refused to follow orders.

Also remember Beric says pieces of you get chipped away when you die and comeback, so it wouldn't be shocking to see Jon's usual compassion and kindness scaled back considerably if not lost altogether.

 

[brau]

Fuck Olly

I am behind this 500%

 

[pel1300]

I feel like this show is going the path of 24....where by the time we get near the end, most of the popular characters will be dead, so people just won't care that much anymore.

I don't even remember what happened in 24's last season..I think I stopped watching after season 5 because it became so predictable in its unpredictability.

 

[Hilti92]

Kit isn't lying when he says that Jon is definitely dead. No one is denying that. The question is whether HE STAYS DEAD. To me it's fairly obvious that he won't.

I just thought of something else. There's a chance that they already filmed the resurrection scene. If that's the only thing we see of Jon next season, then Kit wouldn't be lying if he said that he won't show up next season either. He won't take part of the filming.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/arts/game-...es-fans-with-main-character-s-death-1.3113511

Spoiler

says they told him he's done and not coming back.

Maybe it's a trick?

 

[Portugeezer]

Yeah because no one saw that coming, that crow kid being angry about Jon "helping" the wildlings was not obvious, we were all shocked that he lied to Jon, then also dealt the final stab.

 

[DeathByBacklog]

I REALLY curious as to what happens to Arya's character. Is she permanently screwed now? I'm not worried about the eye sight. I think that can come back just as easily as it was taken away (with magic). Her whole point in going to see Jaqen was to learn to kill so that she could kill off her enemies. But she's clearly not allowed to do this. She's stuck having to kill people who she has no beef against. And I would assume there's no way for her to walk away either. She knows too much of what goes on there. It essentially makes her trip completely worthless. And that's not even going into the fact that the man she befriended with Jaqen face, may not even be around or alive anymore. I truly hope this gets fleshed out properly and makes sense in the end. She looks pretty screwed at the moment.

They all broke their vows with whores long ago.

Sam's loop hole. They can't take on a wife. Nothing in the rules about boning whores.

When you think about it...none of the unfortunate events that happened to the Starks would have happened if only Bran listened to her mother and didn't climb that damn tower.

Well, I guess Jon Snow would still have been killed anyway since none of those WW/wildlings events have anything to do with the Starks/Lannisters war.

Er...no. This all started by Petyr killing off Jon Arryn and framing the Lannisters. Bran being pitched out a window only added fuel to the fire.

 

[blazenumb1]

Fuck Olly



We've seen Jon kill Men of The Watch before: the mutineers who turned on Mormont, and Janos Slynt who betrayed his father and refused to follow orders.

Also remember Beric says pieces of you get chipped away when you die and comeback, so it wouldn't be shocking to see Jon's usual compassion and kindness scaled back considerably if not lost altogether.

All things Ned would have done, he beheaded that guy in the first episode. I see your point about Beric though and hope that who Jon is, will not be lost when he is brought back.

 

[Who]

Has it been said what defeated the White Walkers the first time?

 

[DeathByBacklog]

Has it been said what defeated the White Walkers the first time?

Yep.

 

[rando14]

Has it been said what defeated the White Walkers the first time?

Building the wall was probably the biggest thing

 

[Stallion Dan]

Why would Brianne not kill Stannis when she's on top of his bloody body? Ok so she realizes her actual duty is Sansa and that she fucked up. What's it take ... 2 seconds to swipe his head off?

They had better explain her change of mind better than just, ohh shit I forgot I'm supposed to be taking care of Sansa.

Despite his loss of army, he has the best claim to the throne and he has nothing against the remaining Starks. What is Brianne gonna do, take Sansa and hide her forever?

But given everything before his death, losing his army, the red witch, his wife and most importantly his daugter, I think it is appropiate he was killed.

 

[Easy_D]

Man, I never once thought I'd ever feel bad for Cersei, but god damn, that was horrible and cruel.

 

[nubbe]

Isn't it, effectively, Walder Frey? I assume actual control falls to Edmure Tully, but he's basically a prisoner of the Freys.

no, that's the Riverlands

 

[Giggzy]

My prediction:

John Snow is ressurected and has Targaryen blood. He will get one of the three dragons, and will marry Daenerys. Together they will rule.

Bran will harness his worg abilities and be able to control the third dragon. He won't walk again, but he will fly. Bran will become the King of the North.

 

[Who]

Building the wall was probably the biggest thing

Yeah but they had to fight them back first. Who was they? The wall was put up by magic

 

[Stallion Dan]

I REALLY curious as to what happens to Arya's character. Is she permanently screwed now? I'm not worried about the eye sight. I think that can come back just as easily as it was taken away (with magic). Her whole point in going to see Jaqen was to learn to kill so that she could kill off her enemies. But she's clearly not allowed to do this. She's stuck having to kill people who she has no beef against. And I would assume there's no way for her to walk away either. She knows too much of what goes on there. It essentially makes her trip completely worthless. And that's not even going into the fact that the man she befriended with Jaqen face, may not even be around or alive anymore. I truly hope this gets fleshed out properly and makes sense in the end. She looks pretty screwed at the moment.

I think the fact she hid her sword instead of throwing it away like everything else that is 'Arya Stark' makes it obvious she isn't going to follow the rules when she eventually leaves. It seems to be all about balance, save three lives, get to kill three, take a life, lose a life. Can easily twist this so don't even need follow the rules outright.

 

[Easy_D]

Yeah but they had to fight them back first. Who was they? The wall was put up by magic

Maybe the Targaryens did it, pretty sure a Dragon's fire could kill those suckers. On that note, was there ever a reason given for the dragon skeleton in the Winterfell crypts?

 

[Brojito]

Yeah but they had to fight them back first. Who was they? The wall was put up by magic

Well according to legend it was in part due to a warrior named Azor Ahai and his flaming sword that defeated the White Walkers ultimately... at least what I understand. There's a prophecy in this world that he will essentially be reborn again for the same purpose. That's why Melisandre supported Stannis, because she believed the Lord of Light was telling her that Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn.

I'm hoping I'm not getting too far into book territory, but I'm pretty sure this is all referenced in the show. I think when we first meet Stannis Melisandre talks about all this.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Bran the Builder built the wall. The first King in the North.

 

[poppabk]

If he's dead dead....it's awful story telling. Especially after the clues this season about his lineage and see the sword in action. Plus the whole stare down with the Night King would all be a waste of half the season.

Well he saved what he could of the wildlings, saw the whitewalkers in action, learned the secret of valyran steel being their weakness and passed it on to at least one person. He could die now and have accomplished a lot. Makes me realize the nights watch now have a big problem, in that they have a sizeable force of wildlings on the wrong side of the wall, and they just killed the one person in the nights watch that had any control over them.

 

[RustyNails]

Stannis burned Mance Rayder for nothing

Imagine Mance, Jon, Stannis, Tormund and Wun Wun teaming up. Good job Stannis the Fuckupis.

 

[Easy_D]

So is the current theory that Melisandre had the kid burned to resurrect Jon all along or what? I mean she just bailed like that.

 

[Who]

Well according to legend it was in part due to a warrior named Azor Ahai and his flaming sword that defeated the White Walkers ultimately... at least what I understand. There's a prophecy in this world that he will essentially be reborn again for the same purpose. That's why Melisandre supported Stannis, because she believed the Lord of Light was telling her that Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn.

I'm hoping I'm not getting too far into book territory, but I'm pretty sure this is all referenced in the show. I think when we first meet Stannis Melisandre talks about all this.

Ah very cool thanks

 

[RDreamer]

So is the current theory that Melisandre had the kid burned to resurrect Jon all along or what?

I definitely don't believe that for a second. I think she genuinely thought that would help Stannis and was what she was supposed to do for the lord of light. In a round about way, though, I think that was what she was supposed to do for him, she just doesn't know it yet. It melted the snow and allowed Stannis to be defeated and her to be so distraught she went up north to where she really needed to be.... where Jon Snow was.

Considering her disposition when she left and when she got back, she didn't expect it to end up that way. She thought the snow would melt and there would be a glorious battle and he'd win. She knew everything was crumbling for him, though, and that caused a bit of crisis of faith, most likely.

Remember the lines that Thoros said earlier in the series. He talked about how he was down on everything and had nothing when Beric died and he leaned over him and said the words and didn't expect anything. Something like that scenario is happening with Melisandre.

 

[mm04]

Jon is coming back in some form. GRRM doesn't just throw bits of story detail out there and not come back to it eventually. The hints and foreshadowing have been strong in terms of Jon's importance. This isn't the writers of Lost who throw out a ton of red herrings just to throw the viewers off their scent and to artificially extend a tv series.

 

[Walpurgis]

Jon is coming back in some form. GRRM doesn't just throw bits of story detail out there and not come back to it eventually. The hints and foreshadowing have been strong in terms of Jon's importance. This isn't the writers of Lost who throw out a ton of red herrings just to throw the viewers off their scent and to artificially extend a tv series.

I agree. I think this is why the death scene wasn't nearly as harrowing as Ned, Red Wedding, Oberyn and even Joffrey. For some reason, I wasn't feeling it. I guess it's because I didn't buy it. It seems like a dead end to me and this is a good opportunity to elaborate on the lord of the light with Melisandre there. Maybe we can go back to those Brotherhood bros next season too. I expect to see him next year.

 

[Jonboy]

nice name lol.

But this just meant man up and make the tough decisions you need to make.

Ha. I didn't even catch the connection to my username until you pointed it out.

As for the quote I referenced, it's most likely a double meaning (just like Sam's line about Jon always coming back). When we go back and watch the series again once it's complete, it's one of those things many will wonder how they missed in the first place.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Maybe the Targaryens did it, pretty sure a Dragon's fire could kill those suckers. On that note, was there ever a reason given for the dragon skeleton in the Winterfell crypts?

Weren't there several dragon heads and whatnot down there? I'm not sure why they were there, but they were probably either gifts (because seeing is believing) or trophies from a long time ago, more or less to remind people that they actually existed and of how big they were. In a time where everyone considers them extinct it must be a curious thing to see the bones of them in person. Who wouldn't want to keep them?

That's all speculation though, of course. If anyone could clarify the actual reason, that woud be nice.

 

[Joe]

I'm pretty sure the dragon heads are underneath the red keep in kings landing, Robert put them there after he assumed the throne - they used to hang on the walls in the throne room when the targaryens ruled.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

I love Jon's death scene so much. What sells me is the blood traveling on the snow. Anyway, i find it funny everyone thinks Jon is gonna still be alive. Maybe it's because the God of Sunlight likes bringing people back to life. Maybe it's because The red Lady is there. Who knows! Either way I hope he's alive Jon Snow has worked his way up to being my favorite character.

 

[LInkash]

Kit said he wouldn't be back next season. By season maybe he means autumn.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Jon Snow will be back. As a white walker. Peace.