We'll see what happens this season, but I'll say that the show is on course to deliver a superior version of Arya's arc than what was seen in the book.
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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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We'll see what happens this season, but I'll say that the show is on course to deliver a superior version of Arya's arc than what was seen in the book.
well so far every single aspect of Arya's character growth from the books has been raped and demolished in Season 2, and the only consolation prize we got is the interesting character scenes between Tywin and Arya (for which I don't understand the end game, since
they are not characters that interact ever again and so the relationship now has effectively no value, versus all the incredible character building moments they ignored in the show
...but besides that, sure, it's on track to deliver a "superior" version of Arya. just a superior version of Arya that is inferior in every conceivable way.
I don't think her character growth has been compromised at all.
I'd simply like to see you argue this point, considering that several literally defining moments of Arya's character that were ripped out of the show. I mean, say what you will, but it's inarguable that the moments taken out were defining, pivotal points in her character. And it has been replaced with abject shit, putting to question your comment that the show is on track for a superior Arya.
So I'd like to see your case
The meat of Arya's character arc throughout ACOK is the idea of her reclaiming agency. She is captured and made a lowly servant in Harrenhal, likening herself to an insignificant mouse. Through her deal with Jaqen, she is empowered, and goes on to escape Harrenhal.
None of this is compromised on the show. She is still is at a low point when captured and taken to Harrenhal. She still gains strength through her deal with Jaqen. She is still the engineer of her and her companions' escape.
pulga
Banned
I had a harder monday than whatever Arya had to put up with while chillaxing with Uncle Tywin.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
She's a passive player though in the show. She takes little to no action. She earns nothing in the show. In the book she is empowered by herself, with some help from Jaqen and others. In the show she's just strolling through while someone else does all the work.
Her deal with Jaqen is what empowers her in both the book and the show. It's the deal with Jaqen that makes her the "Ghost of Harrenhal", and without that deal something like weasel soup would have never happened.
When do we see her feeling like a mouse when she is getting complimented by tywin left and right smirking at how smart he thinks she is. Where as in the book
she cut a guys throat because he was an object in the way of her and what she wanted then walked away from it like it was nothing
The meat of Arya's story is not compelling because of where she goes its how she reacts and the resilience she shows that make her so endearing. Sure she is in the same places as in the books but if you think they carried the same emotional weight as to what the character in the books went through I don't know what show you are watching. She pranced around and played tea time with uncle tywin instead of getting beaten daily, eating worms to survive, and scrubbing the castle all day and night to get rewarded with a disgusting meal. You can argue it was too dark and depressing for tv, and you can argue that actress was too young for all of it, but to say they were on the same level is a joke.
They missed the meat of arya's story, they missed the brain of arya's story, and they missed the heart of arya's story. All we got was skin and bones bullshit compared to the book.
Forsaken82
Member
A lot of this thread has become about how (series)
the so called audience will not be able to handle Shae's death at the hands of Tyrion because apparently she is to sympathetic of a character on the show, how then do you think they are gong to accept Arya's transformation into a cold blooded killer? At this point in the books, she has killed a stable boy, killed several people in the attack of the nights watch caravan, was savagely treated while held at Harrenhal, orchestrated the death of 2 specific individuals thanks to jaqen, and killed several of the guards herself on the way out of Harrenhal... in the show she kills the stable boy and orchestrates the death of 2 individuals and of course gets face time with the man leading the charge against her Brother... at this point does she at all seem like the beaten but matured beyond her years little girl from the books? Could she possibly be capable of cold blooded murder at this point?
While I don't think Arya was used well in the second season, I didn't find anything to be particularly character destroying either. I feel that she's basically at the same place emotionally, psychologically at the beginning of both the third season AND third book. The journey was different (and compromised) but she still ended up where she needed to be.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
That's not all of it though. She is the Ghost of Harrenhal in the book and then when Jaqen leaves she becomes a mouse again. A lot of it has to do with her taking matters into her own hands and becoming a wolf. She pretty much got a guided tour through season 2 without having to do anything for herself. The show basically puts her in the same place but without earning any of it.
Forsaken82
Member
There is more to Arya than getting from point A to point B though. The how and why from the book is what makes her character one of the most compelling of the series. This season there is definitely room to adjust her role in the right direction though.
at this point, the only thing I can actually see them getting right with Arya will be her leaving Sandor to die slowly instead of giving him a quick death
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Worst thing I've read this morning. I'm happy about the direction D&D are headed with this sub-plot; they're only heightening the ambiguity and devastation of the act when it comes.
Well since we're in agreement that Arya arrives at the same place in terms of development, I guess it's a question of what you find more interesting. A couple of episodes of Arya getting smacked by whoever that character was that smacked her a lot (I should really remember this, he was such a pivotal character after all), or a couple of episodes where Arya must wait on her family's greatest enemy. I know where many here fall on that issue, but I for one honestly prefer tea time with Tywin.
I think the hand wringing over Shae is stupid, honestly. Making Shae's situation more nuanced will do nothing but enhance the drama of Tyrion's trial.
As for your concern about how audiences will react to Arya becoming a cold blooded killer, I think will react appropriately (with horror and sadness), if the material is handled appropriately. I don't believe the way it is handled in the books would be sufficient in that regard. You're right, by the end of ACOK Arya has either directly killed, or orchestrated the murder of many people. All without batting an eyelash. To me this is a major failing on Martin's part, and the showrunners would be wise to handle Arya's descent with better care. Or hell, just depict it AS a descent. That alone would be an improvement over the source material.
As for your concern about how audiences will react to Arya becoming a cold blooded killer, I think will react appropriately (with horror and sadness), if the material is handled appropriately. I don't believe the way it is handled in the books would be sufficient in that regard. You're right, by the end of ACOK Arya has either directly killed, or orchestrated the murder of many people. All without batting an eyelash. To me this is a major failing on Martin's part, and the showrunners would be wise to handle Arya's descent with better care. Or hell, just depict it AS a descent. That alone would be an improvement over the source material.
Just a thought based on the portrayal so far, and it seems to me like they are going in a different direction and that's one possibility. I would like to see it remain faithful to the source though in almost all cases and this one as well.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
That would be part, but not all of it no. It wouldn't even have to be that, just some affirmative action on her part. She does nothing. Jaqen gives her the coin, but what has she done to deserve it (other than name two names, one of which was a result of her fucking up)? I guess older guys just really dig her. The writers say that they're going to start including stuff that goes towards her character development later on, but we'll see.
"God's Beard!"
Member
To be fair Jon's character arc sucks in the books too.
What reason did Jaqen give Arya for handing her the coin?
Last Hearth
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";52467801]To be fair Jon's character arc sucks in the books too.[/QUOTE]
No it didn't, his travels with Quorin Halfhand was one of the most exhilarating adventures in the entire series.
No it didn't, his travels with Quorin Halfhand was one of the most exhilarating adventures in the entire series.
Last Hearth
Member
Everything that she did? Basically the entire weasel soup episode Jaquen insisted that "A girl should be bloody too", and he saw her help him carry out the mission.
She earned the coin because she impressed him.
In the show there is really no reason other than maybe he liked her.
No need for all that. Jon only needs to spoon with Ygritte.
When it comes to talking about how they fucked up Arya in Season 2 I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the biggest problem for me was that they took out all instances of her showing bravery. She didn't escape Harrenhal on her own - in the show she just walked out. She didn't attempt to rescue to Gendry from 20 guards - which was how she got captured in the book. She didn't fight in the battle where Yoren gets killed. She didn't run out of the burning barn and back in to rescue Jaqen. She didn't refuse to leave the crippled kid behind when Gendry told her how it was slowing them down. She didn't try to convince Gendry, Hot Pie, and Jaqen to help her rescue the northern prisoners. There was none of this.
She needn't have killed a single person for her to have shown instances of bravery such as these. There's no excuse for how badly she was handled. She was supposed to be as big of a main character as Tyrion in the second book. But in the show she's not more important or any more interesting than Sansa.
ASOS
I believe Arya kills The Tickler and the squire. 2/3
Sansa is the dullest character in the book. She's just as bad in the show, only they've made Arya nearly as bad.
Ya, I'm really tired of all these people who say Sansa isn't interesting but go on and on about Arya. Sure, Arya's chapters technically have action, but she is not even relevant to the overall story. Sansa is right in the middle of it.
I had much more fun reading Sansa's chapters in book two than Arya's. In fact, Arya's chapters bored me to death. So many irrelevant characters. I just didn't care. And for all the "growth" you talk about, she hasn't really done that much that is relevant. And for the record, I was most looking forward to Arya's chapters coming off of book one.
Not that the show did Arya any justice.
Finally, someone who gets it.
ew @ this horrible opinion
Sansa fans usually have the best taste because they can actually recognize it. She's such a beautifully written character.
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Cpt.Underpants
Member
You have my sword!!
I like both Sansa and Arya because both are having a reality check and they're growing potentials. Though it was a little too young for them to experience such things
"God's Beard!"
Member
Any time there was a Sansa, Catelyn, Jon or Daenerys chapter in the books, my mind just shuts down. So boring.
cubicle47b
Member
Hehe.
Kadayi
Banned
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean the writers haven't already thought of a way to address it. Ultimately everything in the show comes down to power and people side where they think the power resides.
cubicle47b
Member
Sansa chapters don't have much going for them until late in Storm of Swords. She has a couple interesting encounters with The Hound and there's a little insight into the Tyrells. That's about it. Arya chapters, on the other hand, show the realities of war in the riverlands through ACoK and ASoS, show what's happening on a tactical level in the war, gives hints about the RW (and shows the events on the outside), shows us the BwB, gives us bits of prophecy and history, and her descent into a little psychopath is interesting as well. I think Sansa is a fine character but there's a good reason people like Arya better.
edit: I will say, what Sansa is doing in A Dance With Dragons is much more interesting than what Arya is doing but it's not even close in the first 3 books. Arya wins, hands down.
edit: I will say, what Sansa is doing in A Dance With Dragons is much more interesting than what Arya is doing but it's not even close in the first 3 books. Arya wins, hands down.
adamsappel
Member
Re: Shae, of course this is what is going to happen.
Tywin explicitly says he's going to hang the next whore he finds in Tyrion's bed. He will do so and this will be why Tyrion kills him. They aren't going to have one of the series favorite characters strangle a woman, just like they weren't going to disfigure him either.
pr0cs
Member
There is no question that Arya's story was damaged from Season 2. I don't know why they made the changes to be honest and will echo that her time at Harrenhal vs the book is like night and day in terms of coming to grips with her environment. They can still fix her transformation but it seems like a pretty big loss changing Harrenhal so much.
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