Nice cherry-picking, but once again, I haven't insulted anyone (unless it was in response to someone who flamed first). Well, I insulted the writers a few times, I suppose.
It's kind of rude to post quotes out of context, by the way. ^_^ Example: "do tell, o expert" was in response to someone who said: "you don't know what you're talking about, in terms of music, or in terms of setting the tone of that scene. ". Same with all the rest, but hey, cherry-picking FTW.
Cherry-picked because you didn't provide context, and also, most of them were not even insulting. But whatever, keep derailing... for my part, I'll keep praising this latest episode as the best of the season yet. ^_^
Someone needs to put the clip of the marching men singing the Bear and the Maiden Fair on youtube. I liked that version.
I'm doing this shit scene by scene because that episode was amazing.
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[Riverrun 1]: Blackfish doesn't even wait to fucking see if he hit the target. Drown in your shame, Edmure. Drown like the fish you are.
[Riverrun 2]: First good Robb scene since Season 1. While the reasons for chastizing Edmure were different I was still very appreciative that they kept that character motivation. I was worried about the Blackfish's casting when I was only seeing promo pictures, but Clive Russell is a-ok. There's definitely some good stuff coming from the Tullys.
[King's Landing 1]: Return of the Small Council. Some great Cersei and Tyrion moments, but still sadly not utilizing Varys much yet. And I don't even know why they brought Julian Glover out of bed if they aren't going to give Grand Maester Pycelle anything to say. If Littlefinger just stays with this accent I can live with it, but cmon Aiden, what up with that?
[Jaime/Brienne 1]: Didn't like the way they sang The Bear and The Maiden Fair, but that's a minor point. Jaime and Brienne are gold.
[Arya]: hot pie omg. That "wolf" he baked her was pretty much the best thing ever made in Westeros. I was dying. I just hope we get some priority (time-wise) for Arya in the next few episodes.
[Riverrun 3]: Pretty good Cat/Blackfish scene. He definitely excels at both the badass and loving uncle roles.
[Talisa]: A Talisa scene that isn't unbearable to watch? This really is an amazing episode. I am actually very glad that they gave us *ASOS and Show spoilers*
a short scene to show us the kids who are going to be murdered. I was afraid that it would all happen abruptly off screen and the audience was going to be left wondering why Robb would go to such extremes against his own Bannerman in the middle of a war.
[Jon Beyond the Wall]: Easily the most "just checking-in" of any plotline in the show. They might as well have skipped Jon this time around. Though I'll admit those horses were pretty cool, and supplied some amazing "Luck" jokes.
[Craster's Keep]: I wasn't very impressed with Craster last season, but a combination of the way he was acting this time plus his different facial hair really improved the character. I'm still crossing my fingers for *ASOS spoilers*
Sam getting his Slayer Moment once they've scattered out of Craster's Keep. This is my one request to you Benioff/Weiss!
[Theon 1]: I bet there's already some choice Theon/"Boy" slashfic on tumblr.
[Dragonstone]: Yeah, Stannis came off too lecherous and it wasn't a very compelling scene. Though I'm glad they directly addressed why Melisandre won't be spitting out shadow babies at every opportunity. *Not spoilers*
Also, Melisandre *swoon*
[Astapor 1]: Emilia's actually doing a pretty good job. moreso than season 2, that's for sure. While Iain Glen has a (much-deserved) reputation for his delivery of dialogue I thought he was totally off this episode, like his lines were re-recorded over the phone while he was in the middle of cooking some eggs.
I thought it would be entirely obvious what *ASOS spoilers*
she's going to do to the Slavers, but I guess it was still too tough for some show-only people. Luckily they'll get a nice kick in the rear in a week. I've already procured the ingredients for some Flaming drinks to serve for my friends on the occasion. <-- the nerdiness is just beginning!
[King's Landing 2]: Pod, please don't encourage Ros.
[TyrionBronnPod]: It was a good scene on its own merits. I sympathize with the feeling that every episode feels short and whorehouse scenes feel like a waste of time. I really do. I hope Ros *ASOS spoilers*
gets the Book Marillion treatment
as much as anyone. But getting too deep into this mindset is essentially seeing the purpose of the show as being there to adapt the events exactly as seen in the books or exactly as you want them. And at the of the day the real goal is to create a TV show, nothing more. The bitterness you or I might feel when you can't accept the show as its own thing will only grow with time, and can only serve to prevent you from enjoying some uniquely awesome television.
The only problem I have with Tyrion so far this season *ASOS*
Is that they have to get to his GODDAMNED WEDDING. Cmon guys, don't wait til episode 7 or whenever before pulling the trigger. Get this Stark wifed, stat.
[Theon 2]: The location they filmed the horse riding at was stunning. I've always loved the locations they've used for *Series spoilers*
The North, as in those where winter has not yet come. It's a shame that there have been so few of them.
The Ramsay reveal is going to be so so sweet. I just know it's going to take at least two or three more episodes since they don't want to tip people off about Bolton so much so soon, but I can't wait.
[Jaime/Brienne] 2: One of the best scenes of the series in my opinion. Nikolaj is so goddamn good. They completely brought Jaime back from what some were saying was a character they ruined last season. And I can't really agree with anyone who thinks we severely missed out by not having some lisping here. Noah Taylor's "Locke" was more than sufficient as a stand-in. It was pitch perfect. My heart was beating furiously in anticipation as the scene went on. *ASOS spoilers*
I don't know how I'm going to handle the Red Wedding at this rate.
Now here is where I address the much-discussed outro music. First I have to say I find it hilarious that the pirates got a bit of blowback. Overall I think I have to split the difference on the song. I don't like how the show did The Bear and The Maiden Fair, in both of the uses in this episode. I didn't care for either interpretation and I'm a bit sad that the in-show version was so awkward. However, I don't think the use of the song at the end was in any way bad. In fact I'd say it was 100% appropriate for HBO and I wrote years back that it's almost a shame that some people are going to demand a "pure fantasy" mood to such an extent that the showrunners are for the most part forced to use only instrumental music to end the cliffhangers. I would revolt as much as anyone if they started playing pop music in montages within the show, but there's nothing wrong with what they did this episode. And considering that it's highly unlikely anything of the sort will happen again I'd say the criticism is for the most part moot. No, I don't think it ruined the scene at all, and to those it did, maybe you're taking it a bit too seriously, and are doing so in a self-destructive way. When I say this, please remember that I hated the song they used and have no love whatsoever for the band that covered it. But that ending was perfectly fine. In fact I'd say it contributed to this episode feeling for the first time ever like a complete HBO show.
the most glaring example of this issue was stannis' scene....what was the point of that exactly? it seemed like his contract required a certain amount of appearances in the season.
Based on previews that have been released, I believe this scene was included because of Melisandre, not Stannis. Would be weird having her pop up somewhere else out of the blue.
The "pathetic horndog" was a general comment, but I def got that vibe when he begged her for another son. Just the way he inched closer to her looking all desperate was... ugh.
I think his desire to use her powers again at this stage probably would come off as desperately wanting to bang her, particularly given he probably assumes Melisandre wants to fuck him as a general proposition and as far as we know, the only offensive powers she has result from banging her.
I'm not sure what's to be gained by portraying Stannis as inhumanly stoic, anyways.
They seem afraid to not have any of the "regulars" in every episode, and I think the series would benefit greatly from not caring about that, and caring about the narrative.
I'm curious what the contract requirements are (episode appearances per season) and to what extent that's driving things. At the same time, they have a very difficult task in keeping all of the storylines afloat week-by-week while they're also trying to provide cohesive weekly installments. I'm not sure if they're better off just cutting people out for a week or two and then returning to them, or if they should just go ahead touch bases with the main characters pretty frequently. I lean towards the former, but it takes a delicate balance to satisfy all of the ways in which this is being consumed (book readers vs non-book readers, weekly viewers vs binge viewers). Might be impossible to keep everyone happy in the end.
Awesome episode, but still a lot of meandering. I think I'm just going to have to get used to it. I haven't read the books, but looking at the perspective character count it only goes up. Having a multitude of plot threads spread across an entire content does not translate to tightly woven cinema. It works far better in literature, due to the amount of exposition the author has control over, and the absence of time restraints.
So unless there's some dramatic turn of events that brings characters together similar to the first season/book, I should just sit comfortable with the sparse narrative and enjoy the otherwise excellent writing and characters.
As a side note, Carice van Houten as Melisandre is so fucking hot. No pun intended. She hits all my buttons.
Well, D&D have said that the first 4 episodes are more about setting up things (with 3 and 4 being a little more eventful already - see Jamie's hand), and the last 6 is when things have picked up for good. I definitely think a season would work better in a single sitting, but who can resist one hour drips every week.
the most glaring example of this issue was stannis' scene....what was the point of that exactly? it seemed like his contract required a certain amount of appearances in the season.
this was also the case last season with danaerys in some episodes. and also a major reason why blackwater was the best episode of the series.
when the focus becomes more narrow this show becomes more enjoyable.
The point of that scene was to establish that Melisandre can't just make babies until Stannis is king, which is a pretty important point to make. I didn't like the scene myself.
Thought this episode was a lot better. Blackfish stole the show I think and I am kind of pissed we didn't see him earlier. I will agree that the Stannis scene was really weak but other than that it wasn't bad. The Pod and friends as well as the post scene afterwards just served as some comic relief which was fine.
This episode was a bit better than the last but I am tired of filler they waste time on. I agree that the episodes despite their shortcomings are very beautiful to look at. I loved that chase scene especially.
However it still feels troubling trying to fit so many character arcs in such a short time. Nice ending and I am glad they manage to develop Jaimee more as he is an interesting character. Did not expect that to happen to him. I wish I was more patient so I could wait for when more episodes are available so it was more be more easy to watch.
As a person vested in the source material, I personally have a lot of issues with the episodes, week to week, but I still enjoy the show and am glad it is being made. I think it varies heavily when the changes, omissions, and additions aid the show and when they detract from it. Judging from the responses people post, it's highly subjective. There are LOTS of great things to say about what the show has done so let's not act like week to week that this isn't some sort of achievement. It still has glaring issues from time to time though, so I don't feel the show is exempt from criticism.
I do think there is a lot of outright dismissal for anyone in here who voices a negative comment. I'm pretty tired of threads on GAF being a complete circle jerk or an outright bash fest. There's room for something in between so I don't understand why there's so much lashing out. I'm generalizing here, but based on the past few weeks (and also the previous threads), it seems like if you want to say anything against what the show has done you're automatically labelled as some sort of book-crazed mouth-foamer who can't think rationally and takes this show too seriously. I take offense to this. I really enjoy analyzing adaptations of anything, and I like to think about what the people behind the works are thinking about, what circumstances are changing their approach, etc... Not to mention some people tuning into this show have lived with the books for years or decades, so there's a lot of investment there. It means something when the showrunners also claim to be hugely-dedicated, and passionate fans themselves, and want to do the source material justice. Some of us want to hold them to their promises beyond episode 001.
I also take offense to the fact that some individuals in here don't seem to want to entertain comparisons. If it turns into a discussion that lasts pages over a couple of days, well we should be able to do that freely in this thread, as it is the only appropriate thread to do so on GAF. I know I've been trying to spoiler anything remotely flirting on that precipice. I'd like to think others in here hold the same standards.
Why not use the book thread? It's not like it's going to interrupt discussion of the Winds of Winter and you don't have to mark your spoilers.
Also the "This character/event is different from the book and is therefore wrong" gets tiring. Many of those complaints seem to ignore the context of the series.
Why not use the book thread? It's not like it's going to interrupt discussion of the Winds of Winter and you don't have to mark your spoilers.
Also the "This character/event is different from the book and is therefore wrong" gets tiring. Many of those complaints seem to ignore the context of the series.
Well that's the blanket-categorization I was describing. I'm not going to go dig through my own post history because I'm sure there's been some cases where I've not articulated my feelings thoroughly, but I do try to explain what's in my head when I have a big reaction against something in the show (whether it's related to source material or not- because sometimes it isn't).
Anyways, I have read and still do visit the pure book thread frequently, but it's often dormant for long periods of time. More importantly, I am posting in here because I'm reacting to what the show is doing specifically. There's a show thread for strict, only-show watchers so that's not the venue for it. If you want pure-show talk only, that thread seems to be where those conversations are intended to be.
I thought that was a fantastic episode. The end was pretty weird. Doesn't ruin the episode or anything...I thought it was pretty funny. But it will definitely stand out on rewatches.
Last week was 4.27 million on the initial airing (4.37 in week 1). Numbers for the week are typically released on Tuesday, so expect episode 3 numbers tomorrow.
For the most part, I think the content of discussion has been reasonable given what this thread is for. The bigger problem is people not adhering to a couple of notes from the GAF Member Etiquette FAQ:
Be polite, please
In general when posting in threads, don't be a dick. Be respectful of other fellow members, and learn to argue against the points in a discussion without making it personal or insulting the other party. Present your points well and others will respect your opinion more. Using proper grammar and avoiding typos will also make it easier for others to understand your message.
Don't derail threads
Forums generally operate differently from chatrooms. While NeoGAF is faster moving than most, and some threads on Off Topic Discussions cover a more general set of topics, it is still best to keep within the perimeters of a discussion. Posting in a manner that would shift the subject of discussion to something completely unrelated to the thread's core discussion point is not welcome.
Last week was 4.27 million on the initial airing (4.37 in week 1). Numbers for the week are typically released on Tuesday, so expect episode 3 numbers tomorrow.
My biggest problem with the books. A lot of people discuss ASoIaF's "thousands of characters" as if it's something that should be praised. But those thousands of characters, and hundreds of plots, most with little connection to one another, causes the entire thing to lack of cohesiveness that I think any great story should have. It's the reason why I maintain that AGOT is the best book in the series, as all stories tied or were impacted by the central story of Ned in King's Landing.
I disagree. While there certainly are some minor characters who have little impact or relevance to the story, overall ASOIAF has a clear narrative spread across a handful of arcs to me; by the third book it's largely a giant war being fought on multiple fronts, with the Wall and Dany mixed in. The show suffers more because they haven't found a great way to juggle the storylines per episode, which leads to an almost clip show feel at times. S1/GoT certainly worked better because of the central story, but even that season/book featured the northern arcs plus Dany's arc which had little connection to it.
Last night there was a mixing of every storyline except Bran's: southern (King's Landing), northern (Jon, Night's Watch, Arya, Theon), Essos (Dany), the Riverlands (Robb/Catelyn), and Dragonstone scenes. It wasn't a bad episode but would have been more focused if it didn't feature Dragonstone, Theon, and perhaps even King's Landing.
Yeah, Theon has a flashback where Ramsay let some girl go. The girl then went and rescued Theon (as Ramsay knew she'd do), and they were both hunted down by Ramsay and his dogs. Or something like that.
Yeah, Theon has a flashback where Ramsay let some girl go. The girl then went and rescued Theon (as Ramsay knew she'd do), and they were both hunted down by Ramsay and his dogs. Or something like that.
That seems like it would be incredibly confusing though. Like when one event in someone's storyline informs another event in someone else's, but they'd occur in different episodes even though both events happened shortly after each other chronologically. You'd have too much overlap time-wise
Well that's the blanket-categorization I was describing. I'm not going to go dig through my own post history because I'm sure there's been some cases where I've not articulated my feelings thoroughly, but I do try to explain what's in my head when I have a big reaction against something in the show (whether it's related to source material or not- because sometimes it isn't).
Anyways, I have read and still do visit the pure book thread frequently, but it's often dormant for long periods of time. More importantly, I am posting in here because I'm reacting to what the show is doing specifically. There's a show thread for strict, only-show watchers so that's not the venue for it. If you want pure-show talk only, that thread seems to be where those conversations are intended to be.
Jaime loses his hand in the books, I cursed GRRM. I love Jaime and I really cringed when he took away Jaime's pride and joy (his skills with a sword). Watching it unfold on the show was just as bad. Every time I saw Jaime I was like Oh God, here it comes...God damn it.
Jaime loses his hand in the books, I cursed GRRM. I love Jaime and I really cringed when he took away Jaime's pride and joy (his skills with a sword). Watching it unfold on the show was just as bad. Every time I saw Jaime I was like Oh God, here it comes...God damn it.
