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Game of Thrones *Tagged Book Spoilers, Please Read OP* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO

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D

Dysun

Member
series
They should try to focus on ~6 storylines per episode, any more than that and it gets to be too scattered. Should be fun with the Iron Islanders and Dornish added to the mix in the upcoming seasons. Although I think watching the whole season without the limitations of one hour a week will alleviate some of this.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
exYle said:
How come?
Click to expand...

I don't want to derail the thread for book talk. But to be brief, and totally non-spoiler: I didn't (and don't) care for the direction much of the story went, and it got too bogged down in minutia (large sections pass where I had no idea who most non-main characters were). And the narrative was so dispersed that often I could go a couple hundred pages and not feel like the story advanced much at all. Very similar to a comment a little ways up about how the show is covering so many narrative threads that some are complaining "nothing" his happening. It is, just it's so dispersed, there was no narrative momentum until 600+ pages in.

I'm about 1,000 pages in (my edition has 1,100) and it's gotten better. Jaime's arc is the best in the book, some really great longform character work. But I still don't like the bulk of where the story has gone.
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I don't want to derail the thread for book talk. But to be brief, and totally non-spoiler: I didn't (and don't) care for the direction much of the story went, and it got too bogged down in minutia (large sections pass where I had no idea who most non-main characters were). And the narrative was so dispersed that often I could go a couple hundred pages and not feel like the story advanced much at all. Very similar to a comment a little ways up about how the show is covering so many narrative threads that some are complaining "nothing" his happening. It is, just it's so dispersed, there was no narrative momentum until 600+ pages in.

I'm about 1,000 pages in (my edition has 1,100) and it's gotten better. Jaime's arc is the best in the book, some really great longform character work. But I still don't like the bulk of where the story has gone.
Click to expand...

AFFC is pretty awesome. Don't give up!
 
S

Saterium

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I don't want to derail the thread for book talk. But to be brief, and totally non-spoiler: I didn't (and don't) care for the direction much of the story went, and it got too bogged down in minutia (large sections pass where I had no idea who most non-main characters were). And the narrative was so dispersed that often I could go a couple hundred pages and not feel like the story advanced much at all. Very similar to a comment a little ways up about how the show is covering so many narrative threads that some are complaining "nothing" his happening. It is, just it's so dispersed, there was no narrative momentum until 600+ pages in.

I'm about 1,000 pages in (my edition has 1,100) and it's gotten better. Jaime's arc is the best in the book, some really great longform character work. But I still don't like the bulk of where the story has gone.
Click to expand...

Oh man... You're going to
not
love a dance with dragons.
 
E

exYle

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I don't want to derail the thread for book talk. But to be brief, and totally non-spoiler: I didn't (and don't) care for the direction much of the story went, and it got too bogged down in minutia (large sections pass where I had no idea who most non-main characters were). And the narrative was so dispersed that often I could go a couple hundred pages and not feel like the story advanced much at all. Very similar to a comment a little ways up about how the show is covering so many narrative threads that some are complaining "nothing" his happening. It is, just it's so dispersed, there was no narrative momentum until 600+ pages in.

I'm about 1,000 pages in (my edition has 1,100) and it's gotten better. Jaime's arc is the best in the book, some really great longform character work. But I still don't like the bulk of where the story has gone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, SoS serves as the book that closes a lot of story lines introduced in the first 2 books, and it has the most significant character events in the series so far. So if you feel it drags, I'd be wary of FfC and DwD.
 
C

ChaosXVI

Member
So far I have yet to be bothered by the pacing of the episodes this season, at least no more so than last season. While it does suck that many storylines either get 5 minutes an episode or shafted completely, there just doesn't seem any way around it...but I am worried about how this will be handled going forward.

AFFC
With the introduction of numerous characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands presumably coming either next season or the one after, I have no idea how they'll manage to balance screen time at that point...sure Robb will be dead but that won't really make up for all the new characters that will need to be introduced, provided they don't cut a few (which they probably should...AFFC is by far my least favorite because of them). Hopefully by then HBO finally allows their episode count to hit a standard 12.
 
C

Chuck Norris

Banned
Anyone really disappointed with Mance? We probably won't see him again this season IIRC, and he really hasn't said or done much. I felt from the beginning that Hinds was the wrong choice. He is too subdued, he might have made a good Stannis. I would have casted somebody like James Purefoy or Dominic West as Mance.

As usual the scenes in the North don't live up to what they should. The chase from the white walkers was non-existent, the scale of the Northern Wilding Army has not been shown at all effectively, most of the time they are in small groups of people. There is no menace towards Snow from particular characters, they haven't displayed the clash of cultures, no mammoths yet but the giant was cool. And really, the scenes are just too short to give any time to develop.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
ChaosXVI said:
So far I have yet to be bothered by the pacing of the episodes this season, at least no more so than last season. While it does suck that many storylines either get 5 minutes an episode or shafted completely, there just doesn't seem any way around it...but I am worried about how this will be handled going forward.

AFFC
With the introduction of numerous characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands presumably coming either next season or the one after, I have no idea how they'll manage to balance screen time at that point...sure Robb will be dead but that won't really make up for all the new characters that will need to be introduced, provided they don't cut a few (which they probably should...AFFC is by far my least favorite because of them). Hopefully by then HBO finally allows their episode count to hit a standard 12.
Click to expand...



AFFC/ADWD
Maybe they will follow the books and just do half the story for one season and the rest of the people the next season! Personally I'd rather see longer episodes or more episodes. Or hell, just spread AFFC/ADWD over 3 or 4 seasons. But then what if the show got cancelled...
 
T

Timbuktu

Member
Chuck Norris said:
Anyone really disappointed with Mance? We probably won't see him again this season IIRC, and he really hasn't said or done much. I felt from the beginning that Hinds was the wrong choice. He is too subdued, he might have made a good Stannis. I would have casted somebody like James Purefoy or Dominic West as Mance.
Click to expand...

He was great as Caesar, but i thought he would have been better as a high septon or something later on. For Stannis, in my head it was always mark strong.

Of the Rome actors, i would agree that Purefoy or McKidd would have made a better Mance, the actors from that series could have been better used for GoT.
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
Mance is supposed to be a charismatic guy. Sneaking into the feast at Winterfall. He's supposed to be a legend.

The guy on the show plays the part with too much gloom.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Kuroyume said:
Mance is supposed to be a charismatic guy. Sneaking into the feast at Winterfall. He's supposed to be a legend.

The guy on the show plays the part with too much gloom.
Click to expand...

Yeah he is a bit off. I actually don't mind the portrayal though, it makes sense that a harder type of man would command respect.

But I really pictured him as the bard type (given he (Early books)
passed off as a bard in Winterfell
) He should be the type that you can't help but like, especially to contrast him with Mormont and Ned to teach Jon a little more about leadership.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
I get a mischievous and fun sense out of Mance Rayder, though that may be more my fondness for Ciaran Hinds. He doesn't really come off as dour to me. Always seems to have a twinkle in his eye.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
I really expectet Hinds to give us a Mance superior to the books.
but there is not much even an actor like him can do in so little screen time.
Mance is certainly the biggest disappointment of this season, yet.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I don't want to derail the thread for book talk. But to be brief, and totally non-spoiler: I didn't (and don't) care for the direction much of the story went, and it got too bogged down in minutia (large sections pass where I had no idea who most non-main characters were). And the narrative was so dispersed that often I could go a couple hundred pages and not feel like the story advanced much at all. Very similar to a comment a little ways up about how the show is covering so many narrative threads that some are complaining "nothing" his happening. It is, just it's so dispersed, there was no narrative momentum until 600+ pages in.

I'm about 1,000 pages in (my edition has 1,100) and it's gotten better. Jaime's arc is the best in the book, some really great longform character work. But I still don't like the bulk of where the story has gone.
Click to expand...

Well if you don't like ASOS, which is the best paced book in the series with the most action, I really doubt you'll like the next two.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
(double post sorry)
Eidan said:
Though the main narrative of the series has been the War of the Five Kings, with the Night Watch's war with wildings and Others, and Dany's rise in the East being secondary plots that are just now beginning to thread into the main one, the individual stories being told simply aren't connected enough to make a truly compelling story for me.

For all the talk of the show being a glorified clip show, I think it's fair to say the books are exactly the same. Sam's story is entirely disconnected from Sansa's, which is entirely disconnected from Arya's which is entirely disconnected from Bran's, which is entirely disconnected from Jaime's, and so on and so forth. The sheer glut of characters and arcs involved in the series just make the entire thing feel bloated, and I honestly don't think there's much the show can do to hide this. In the end, Game of Thrones is a a show with too many characters and too many loosely related plots because A Song of Ice and Fire is a series with too many characters and too many loosely related plots.
Click to expand...

Eh I've never viewed it that way, nor have I read many large fantasy series where every character is connected to each other character; I don't see that as a negative, personally. Sam isn't connected to Sansa, but he is connected to Jon, Bran, and Dany. Sansa isn't connected to Arya, but is connected to Tyrion, etc. It's easy to forget that this story is literally in the middle of its telling, and we don't know exactly where everything is going. Overall the arcs have stayed pretty stable to me except for Dany's. Martin is good at throwing curve balls but I think a general endgame outline is visible for the main characters, and now we wait to see how the secondary characters play into that.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
EatChildren said:
Awesome episode, but still a lot of meandering. I think I'm just going to have to get used to it. I haven't read the books, but looking at the perspective character count it only goes up. Having a multitude of plot threads spread across an entire content does not translate to tightly woven cinema. It works far better in literature, due to the amount of exposition the author has control over, and the absence of time restraints.

So unless there's some dramatic turn of events that brings characters together similar to the first season/book, I should just sit comfortable with the sparse narrative and enjoy the otherwise excellent writing and characters.
Click to expand...

There's actually many more plot threads in the show than in the books because the books are limited to POV characters. You would not have seen a conversation just between Stannis or Milsandre because neither one was a POV character for that book. There couldn't be a scene between Talisa and two Lannister boys. There couldn't be a scene with Margarery and Joffrey talking to themselves. Or Shae and Ros.

What the show should do is leave out threads that they can't devote more than 2 or 3 minutes to. Why revisit Jon and the Night's Watch this episode? Put those scenes in the next episode. Put Arya's scenes in the next episode. Instead have a super long Dany scene in this episode and leave her out of the next. Why don't they do this?

LAUGHTREY said:
A nice theory someone else told me last night: ASOS
Sam rescues Gillys baby from a white walker by stabbing it with obsidian, it adds drama and catches up with the book where Commander Mormont says The Wall wasn't built to keep out wildlings.
Click to expand...

That would be a great change. I hope that happens.
 
T

Timbuktu

Member
Lothar said:
What the show should do is leave out threads that they can't devote more than 2 or 3 minutes to. Why revisit Jon and the Night's Watch this episode? Put those scenes in the next episode. Put Arya's scenes in the next episode. Instead have a super long Dany scene in this episode and leave her out of the next. Why don't they do this?
Click to expand...

Don't really know, but could it be actors and their contracts? I mean, do they have to be in a certain number of episodes a year to be considered a 'regular' and not have everyone on the show be a guest star or something?
 
T

TCRS

Banned
Yeah, in A Game Of Thrones Jon and Robb are 14. So Robb would be about 15-16 at this point. In the show they are aged so I would say 18.
 
L

Linius

Member
DMn.gif


Did we had a gif of this already?

Loved the episode, I didn't saw it coming at the end. Can't wait for next week.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
exYle said:
You're a heartless bastard. They're kids.
Click to expand...

Sure they're kids... but one of them has murdered and ordered hits and the other has seen death and rape and dismemberment in his short life, so it's not like they're not rapidly being forced to be adults :p

MasterBalls said:
Not enough rape/dismemberment going on for you in this ep or something?
Click to expand...

It is what it is, it's was just so hilarious to me how off-tone it felt compared to everything else that has been in the show to date. Maybe it's in-character even, but it just felt funny to watch.
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
Martin doesn't write the kids to their age in the books. Their thought processes and dialogue are much more advanced for their ages. Arya is 10? She reads just like any other adult character. Not that I mind because I hate children characters. its hard to develop tension when the character can't grasp the situations they are in.

Also, is Lysa Tully's son mentally disabled or is it stunted growth as a result of Lysa's overbearing mothering?
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
you guys also gotta understand, their society is similar to that of medieval.

once you hit puberty, you ain't a kid anymore. you're a man and a woman and you gotta do your thang

remember, catelyn's only 35, and she has 5 kids, and in the 1st book, she'd talk about how she was hoping to give Ned one more before she's too old.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Escape Goat said:
Also, is Lysa Tully's son mentally disabled or is it stunted growth as a result of Lysa's overbearing mothering?
Click to expand...

Diseased with the drugs he takes to fight it off stunting his development.

Amir0x said:
It is what it is, it's was just so hilarious to me how off-tone it felt compared to everything else that has been in the show to date. Maybe it's in-character even, but it just felt funny to watch.
Click to expand...

I think they laid their cards pretty squarely on the table with the scene where she killed the boy in the stables. It came off as a mistake, whereas in the books it was anything but. Her parts have always been a bit of a mix in tone, and they have just chosen the lighter one to date. I don't see that really changing from here.
 
Z

ZeroRay

Member
Martin himself admits he should have aged everyone up to the standards of the show.

Even if it is historically accurate, it kinda feels like an anime with all these 14 year olds leading armies and shit. :p
 
D

Devolution

Member
ZeroRay said:
Martin himself admits he should have aged everyone up to the standards of the show.

Even if it is historically accurate, it kinda feels like an anime with all these 14 year olds leading armies and shit. :p
Click to expand...

Or kind of gross when you realize Dany was a 14 yr old fucking Drogo.
 
Z

ZeroRay

Member
Escape Goat said:
Yeah, i just picture the TV shows actors when i read. did Martin intend this to be a continuing series or is there an end book in mind?
Click to expand...

Two more books planned to finish off the series. (lol) Martin did want to jump ahead 5 years after ASOS, but that fell apart.

Devolution said:
Or kind of gross when you realize Dany was a 14 yr old fucking Drogo.
Click to expand...

13 IIRC. Hell I think there was a passage in GoT specifically mentioning Drogo liked em that young. *shudder*

Speaking of Drogo, one of the main issues I have with Martin is that basically every character east of the Narrow Sea is more of a caricature than an actual person. But that's another argument for another thread.
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
What I love about this series is that there are a lot of swords, shields, arrows, and armies, but the characters that wield the most power arm themselves with knowledge.
 
E

exYle

Member
Amir0x said:
Sure they're kids... but one of them has murdered and ordered hits and the other has seen death and rape and dismemberment in his short life, so it's not like they're not rapidly being forced to be adults :p
Click to expand...

Hot Pie and Arya were friends and allies in a rough situation, so they would definitely at least acknowledge each other and say goodbye. With the state of the war and Arya being shipped off with a group of rebels, neither is likely to see each other, and they're being separated into two different potentially dangerous situations, so they're not sure if the other is going to live through the war. The mood was appropriately somber.

Devolution said:
Or kind of gross when you realize Dany was a 14 yr old fucking Drogo.
Click to expand...

Gross nowadays for sure, but he was a barbarian warlord and she was like a prize wife. Probably pretty par for the course for the time its supposed to represent.
 
1

1138

Member
Linius said:
DMn.gif


Did we had a gif of this already?

Loved the episode, I didn't saw it coming at the end. Can't wait for next week.
Click to expand...

I was kinda indifferent towards book-Pycelle, but TV-Pycelle is one of my favorites from the show. I love how they turned him into a minor player who looks out for himself.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
TCRS said:
Yeah, in A Game Of Thrones Jon and Robb are 14. So Robb would be about 15-16 at this point. In the show they are aged so I would say 18.
Click to expand...

If Robb is 18 on the show, then Tyrion is 8 feet tall. There's just no way. You might as well say Bran is 53. You can look and see that's not even close to being true.
 
O

OmegaTreeFish

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I don't want to derail the thread for book talk. But to be brief, and totally non-spoiler: I didn't (and don't) care for the direction much of the story went, and it got too bogged down in minutia (large sections pass where I had no idea who most non-main characters were). And the narrative was so dispersed that often I could go a couple hundred pages and not feel like the story advanced much at all. Very similar to a comment a little ways up about how the show is covering so many narrative threads that some are complaining "nothing" his happening. It is, just it's so dispersed, there was no narrative momentum until 600+ pages in.

I'm about 1,000 pages in (my edition has 1,100) and it's gotten better. Jaime's arc is the best in the book, some really great longform character work. But I still don't like the bulk of where the story has gone.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you are describing ASOS and not FFTC? Because ASOS is one of the best books I have ever read. FFTC was very boring until the last couple of hundred pages and sounds exactly like what you describe.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Lothar said:
If Robb is 18 on the show, then Tyrion is 8 feet tall. There's just no way. You might as well say Bran is 53. You can look and see that's not even close to being true.
Click to expand...

Except it is true. Robb was 17 in season 1, so now about 18 or 19.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
Tence said:
Except it is true. Robb was 17 in season 1, so now about 18 or 19.
Click to expand...

I can't suspend my disbelief enough to believe a man in his late 20s is 18. If they wanted it to be true, they shouldn't have cast a clearly not 18 year old for the part.

It makes more sense for me to assume the characters fuck up with the dates when they mention the number of years. Or maybe time flows differently in Westeros.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Lothar said:
I can't suspend my disbelief enough to believe a man in his late 20s is 18. If they wanted it to be true, they shouldn't have cast a clearly not 18 year old for the part.

It makes more sense for me to assume the characters fuck up with the dates when they mention the number of years. Or maybe time flows differently in Westeros.
Click to expand...

The 'truth' of the series does not depend on the fact you can't suspend your disbelieve though. The poster you quoted mentioned Robs age in the series, and he was correct about it. The fact he looks older, is older IRL etcetera doesn't influence the correctness of the statement.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
LAUGHTREY said:
A nice theory someone else told me last night: ASOS
Sam rescues Gillys baby from a white walker by stabbing it with obsidian, it adds drama and catches up with the book where Commander Mormont says The Wall wasn't built to keep out wildlings.
Click to expand...

You mean
an Other right? The Others are the nigh invulnerable ones that command the zombies, have blue ice sword like weapons, and are weak to Obsidian. The White Walkers are the zombies that are weak to fire.

Oh it looks like that was a TV change too.

The asoiaf wiki is trying to confuse me by including the other name up at the top even though I'm pretty damn sure they are never called
White Walkers
in the series.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
NathanMcMahon said:
Exactly. No fucking idea what they are doing but think they are creatively inclined. Like monkeys fucking a football.
Click to expand...

Someone gives a bad idea and you paint a broad brush to say everyone making better suggestions doesn't know what they are doing and is "Like monkeys fucking a football"? HBO has made some bad decisions. The fact that they managed to get this show up and running is amazing, but they still make some terrible damn decisions.
 
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