SmurfMustard
Member
True gamers really love their gatekeeping.
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[Gamerant]Future FromSoftware Games May Want to Borrow Doom: The Dark Ages' Difficulty Customization
- Thread starter LectureMaster
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hyperbertha
Member
Why doesn't this logic apply both ways? How come stupidly easy games like astro bot or mario not have a hard mode to satisfy the hardcore gamers?
Not all games are made for everyone. It's ok for a game to have a highly tailored difficulty and exclude people who can't do it. From soft games aren't supposed to be easy. Allowing morons to breeze through the game does in fact dilute it for the serious player. These games are a test of willpower in a way. Easy mode reduces the motivation to beat a boss after 30 tries because the difficulty slider is just a click away . Besides, spending time on reduced difficulties takes away budget from the real deal.
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BlackTron
Member
Their job is to talk about games even though they aren't gamers.
Of course the plays-itself mode is the most exciting feature.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Miyazaki has explained why From games don't have difficulty settings. Why is it so difficult for some people to just respect that that's what they want to create? You don't have to play them if you don't like it. I don't play hero shooters, because I don't like them. I'm not constantly demanding that the studios behind those games change them to suit me, I just play games that do suit me instead.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Fuck off already. If you want it easy, play it on YouTube, it even has a pause button.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Devs are free to design their own game however they want and if some people don’t like it they can go buy different game.
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coachmcguirk91
Member
It kind of sucks for people who enjoy the Souls genre but don't have the ability to play them. As long as Souls games are developed first and foremost for their standard level of difficulty, I see no reason why an easier mode shouldn't be added
First Beserker is a Souls like coming out in March. It provides 2 difficulties, Normal and Easy. The game was obv designed around normal difficulty, but if you are new to the genre, there is an easy mode. It doesn't affect anyone by adding it
BlackTron
Member
Unless you're a game journalist
Edit: It's almost like game journalist is a job that should have been reserved for a select few that have no problem plowing games, instead of just the bottom of the barrel job you took because you couldn't do anything else
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Bernardougf
Member
LOL they want more ??? They already did that in Elden Ring unfortunately ruining the game balance.. ... the game is stupidly easy when you use all at your disposal... you can literally double yourself and go kill a boss.
Fuck off stop trying to change something to appease your needs... fucking generation of entitlement.
Fuck off stop trying to change something to appease your needs... fucking generation of entitlement.
Meanwhile I think more games should have only one difficulty option. It's just a much better crafted experience.
In many games that have difficulty settings it ends up with none of them feeling right. Halo is a good example. For me anything non lrgendary is too easy but in legendary half the sandbox becomes useless which sucks.
In many games that have difficulty settings it ends up with none of them feeling right. Halo is a good example. For me anything non lrgendary is too easy but in legendary half the sandbox becomes useless which sucks.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Yea I'm ok with that option.
Games are made for fun folks, pull back a bit, touch grass and realize this is made for the point of fun.
If someone modded the game and made it easy, fuck does that have to do with anyone here? Why would that effect how anyone else plays the game?
Games are made for fun folks, pull back a bit, touch grass and realize this is made for the point of fun.
If someone modded the game and made it easy, fuck does that have to do with anyone here? Why would that effect how anyone else plays the game?
SonicJams
Member
I mean, I play games for challenge and the fun experience. "Growing and improving" is a stretch, do enough of that in my life outside of video games. That being said, fromsoft games are specifically built for the challenge, so adding difficulty options to them takes away from their place in the gaming world.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
The creator of the game does see a reason, and that's why he hasn't done it. It's ok if not every game is for you.
genesisblock
Member
There's a key difference with accessibility options like "colorblind" mode and simply adding trainers for the game. The Souls games are so tightly woven with its mechanics that making an easy mode is similar to Gran Turismo having a "Ridge Racer mode;, it goes against the purpose of the game itself. It's like building a step-by-step instruction manual in the game to build a house in Minecraft. You could, but it would dismiss the sandbox purpose of the design.
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CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
If the Souls games were very easy I doubt they would be as popular as they are.
Besides, you can level up your character to help fight more tougher enemies, and spawn allies if needed.
MALpractice311
Member
Guess it was a slow news day at the games journalist's office today.
"Johnson, we need new content for more clicks!"
"Uh, uh, uh, make Souls games easier!"
"Brilliant! I want it on my desk by 5pm!"
"Johnson, we need new content for more clicks!"
"Uh, uh, uh, make Souls games easier!"
"Brilliant! I want it on my desk by 5pm!"
Nah, so long as cheeses exist it’s fine. There should however always be some mild cheese and smelly mature cheese, that isn’t patched out. So gamers can fight normally as intended, try optimising their strategies, if that fails, search for some mild cheese that can give them the edge they need, if that still fails, then hit the break glass in case of emergency and watch a video on some super smelly cheese.
I’ve found FROM games always have these options (tho sometimes the smelly cheese gets patched out, this imo is a mistake). However many “soulslike” games not made by from don’t seem to have many cheese options and are mostly dairy free….it does make me think it’s existence in FROM games is not a design oversight, or lack of QA but rather somewhat intentional. Same with their quest and lore design, it’s all designed to encourage vast amounts of social content being created and encouraging users to engage with said content, which in turn aids its popularity with huge amounts of free marketing, and continued brand engagement outside of the game itself.
I’ve found FROM games always have these options (tho sometimes the smelly cheese gets patched out, this imo is a mistake). However many “soulslike” games not made by from don’t seem to have many cheese options and are mostly dairy free….it does make me think it’s existence in FROM games is not a design oversight, or lack of QA but rather somewhat intentional. Same with their quest and lore design, it’s all designed to encourage vast amounts of social content being created and encouraging users to engage with said content, which in turn aids its popularity with huge amounts of free marketing, and continued brand engagement outside of the game itself.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Dis shitto agen…
From Software:
From Software:
genesisblock
Member
If the souls games theoretically have an easy mode, any game designer worth his salt would simply make a beat-em-up action game instead. One, it has a lower barrier entry for gamers than Souls games. A half-baked design does no good for the game because it applies the "cater-to-everyone" approach which dilutes the game itself.
A lot of people ignore the fact that once you get used to this "easier" difficulty then the rest of the elements stand out, level design, boss encounters will start looking out-of-place for an easier playthrough since it's designed for a clear type of game mode. Then you're going to hear complaints about this as well. It's just an attempt of gamers who are entitled to believing every game should be catered to them simply because.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
To keep going against this, I think they should also stop trying to perfect AI behaviour and shaders and general performance. Provider high level presets, stop obsessing to have things such as a coherent vision and polishing passes before you ship, and offer more source access to some components to enable gamers to optimise the code on their own (game would ship the source code back on the cloud and send you back an optimised binary module or a compiler error but game themed). A lot of games have gamers take the QA role over already, why not more
FromSoftware Soulslikes May Want to Keep an Eye on One Doom: The Dark Ages Feature
Difficulty has been a hot topic surrounding FromSoftware for quite some time, and Doom: The Dark Ages might actually have the answer.gamerant.com
FromSoftware games are infamously challenging. In a FromSoft action-RPG, it's not just bosses that will one-shot players, it's regular enemies too, and that high level of challenge has caused a bit of a stir in recent years. But Doom: The Dark Ages, surprisingly, might have the key to solving this ongoing FromSoftware difficulty debate.
First announced back at Xbox's June 2024 Showcase, Doom: The Dark Ages is the next mainline entry in the long-running Sci-Fi shooter franchise, and this time, things are getting a little more fantastical. During the recent Xbox Developer Direct, id Software shed some more light on Doom: The Dark Ages' combat, story, and exploration, providing plenty of gameplay footage for each aspect. id Software also showcased a new custom difficulty setting for Doom: The Dark Ages, which could be something for FromSoftware to consider in the future.
FromSoftware Games Need to Strike an Impossible Balance
While FromSoftware games have been challenging since the studio's debut (1994's King's Field), a discussion surrounding that high level of challenge has continued to grow louder over the last decade, usually resurfacing with the launch of a new FromSoftware action-RPG. On one side of the fence, some FromSoft fans believe that the high level of challenge is an inherent part of the experience, and that removing it would remove a core part of the developer's unique identity.
While that might be true, it's undeniable that FromSoftware's higher level of difficulty can often be a major barrier to entry for newcomers. Contrary to some fans' beliefs, this isn't always a "skill issue." There are many gamers out there who experience physical disabilities that affect their reaction timing or ability to perceive minute changes in enemy attack patterns. These gamers have frequently discussed how FromSoftware's games are simply inaccessible to them due to the lack of any difficulty options. This is where Doom: The Dark Ages' difficulty customization could offer a solution.
How Doom: The Dark Ages' Difficulty System Could Work in a FromSoftware Game
Though it's certainly not the first AAA game to offer custom difficulty options, Doom: The Dark Ages' mechanics do share some clear similarities with FromSoftware's action-RPGs, making a direct comparison between them appropriate. Doom: The Dark Ages' custom difficulty settings will allow the player to manually adjust individual components of the game, such as enemy aggression, projectile speed, parry windows, damage to the player, and general game speed. Those who don't want to adjust any of these values can simply choose one of Doom: The Dark Ages' preset difficulty options, just as they would in any previous entry in the franchise.
This might be a good way for future FromSoftware games to strike a balance between the two aforementioned schools of thought. The players who want to experience FromSoftware's intended experience could simply play the game like normal, while those who want to adapt the difficulty to best suit their needs or desires could. The introduction of accessibility options doesn't mean it would inherently detract from the experience for some fans, or even affect their experience at all.
.Jokes aside, no… I understand the customisation argument but a.) modern found ways already and b.) it removes incentive from the dev optimising and executing on their vision.
crazyriddler
Member
If you can't enjoy souls because of the difficulty why not just play something else? I can't with simulation games that you have to look at 1000 parameters and are absurdly complex, but I accept that they are for an audience that is looking for that and I don't expect them to "arcade" them just for me.
Pandawan
Member
Journalists are obsessed with telling From Software what to do, which is stupid because From games are good as is. And they're popular enough that there's no demand for change. And yet they're somehow desperate to push for change. Typical out-of-touch journalism (more like activism).
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Fbh
Member
No thx.
A single difficulty mode is one of the core aspects of the FROM souls games and part of what makes their design appealing
And as many others have pointed out, they have built in mechanics to make them easier, Elden Ring in particular made it more obvious than ever with the Spirit Ashes.
Yeah there's so much gatekeeping going on with 28 million selling Elden Ring. Truly only a game the most skilled of hardcore gamers can enjoy
A single difficulty mode is one of the core aspects of the FROM souls games and part of what makes their design appealing
And as many others have pointed out, they have built in mechanics to make them easier, Elden Ring in particular made it more obvious than ever with the Spirit Ashes.
Yeah there's so much gatekeeping going on with 28 million selling Elden Ring. Truly only a game the most skilled of hardcore gamers can enjoy
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BlackTron
Member
I don't mind difficulty options as long as it goes both ways AND it's apparent that it didn't result in half baked game design. Like the game is easy and hard mode just doubles all HP. I want a game that is actually designed to be challenging not a cakewalk that was padded with sliders. A lot of games suffer from this "it's easy, but we took care of challenge bros too" disease...with some slapped on feature like hard bosses to fight after you finish the entire game.
Pandawan
Member
I also hate this damn modern western media obsession with "accessibility". Not every game should be easily accessible to everyone. It is lame if they all are.
Just leave at least some game alone, so people who what to be enterntained by themselfs (not guided thought the game) can have a least some fun
Just leave at least some game alone, so people who what to be enterntained by themselfs (not guided thought the game) can have a least some fun
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BlackTron
Member
From games cater to "real gamers".
It's game journalists job to cover what gamers play, but they have zero cred
Therefore, conflict. Can't this popular game change to make it easier to cover. These GAMERS are a problem. We should....influence them.
LazyParrot
Member
If I was From Software I'd probably just toss in an easy mode that totally trivializes the game while also blocking players from earning achievements and accessing online multiplayer.
Easy to implement, no additional balancing required and it'd get the journos off their back (although some of them would probably just go "No no no, not like this!").
Easy to implement, no additional balancing required and it'd get the journos off their back (although some of them would probably just go "No no no, not like this!").
Wildebeest
Member
id software has done a much worse job of dividing their playerbase with difficulty and inaccessibility than from. Their recent track record is literary worse and nothing to admire.
I don't play FROM software games although I did enjoy Fallen Order which is similar ISH.
My view is that FROM should build the games they want to build which seems to have worked for them so far. I don't see the need to always want to be expanding the customer base if it goes against core values of the dev.
My view is that FROM should build the games they want to build which seems to have worked for them so far. I don't see the need to always want to be expanding the customer base if it goes against core values of the dev.
lughnasadh123
Member
One difficultly is meaningless when there's so many variables in the game.
-Leveling up or not.
-Using summoned NPCs or not.
-Summoning other players or not.
-All the different builds.
-Using weaker or stronger weapons.
-Leveling up those weapons.
-Using a weaker or stronger spirit ash or none at all.
-Level up a spirit ash.
-Using certain boss items to make the fight easier.
-Using items.
-What armor you use.
-What talisman you use.
-Using flasks or not.
-Leveling up your flasks or not.
Elden Ring already leaned harder in multiple ways to make the game easier and it's easily the biggest success of anything. People picking and choosing any of those ways to breeze through the game - or not - did jack shit to anyone else playing a different way. Same would be true with sliders that allow tweaking that could also allow the game to be harder for those interested. Every argument against it is pure bunk other than the usual holdouts who just don't want it just because. The same type of people who would argue against adding a map, open world, and a mount.
-Leveling up or not.
-Using summoned NPCs or not.
-Summoning other players or not.
-All the different builds.
-Using weaker or stronger weapons.
-Leveling up those weapons.
-Using a weaker or stronger spirit ash or none at all.
-Level up a spirit ash.
-Using certain boss items to make the fight easier.
-Using items.
-What armor you use.
-What talisman you use.
-Using flasks or not.
-Leveling up your flasks or not.
Elden Ring already leaned harder in multiple ways to make the game easier and it's easily the biggest success of anything. People picking and choosing any of those ways to breeze through the game - or not - did jack shit to anyone else playing a different way. Same would be true with sliders that allow tweaking that could also allow the game to be harder for those interested. Every argument against it is pure bunk other than the usual holdouts who just don't want it just because. The same type of people who would argue against adding a map, open world, and a mount.
OGM_Madness
Member
A game like Dark Souls, where gear and stats is the main reward and min/max your build is where a big chunk of the fun is, a difficulty slider will simply break the progression. Do I play this game for 5 hours and become stronger so that my sword does 110 damage instead of 75? Or do I just hit the settings menu and ruin the game for myself?
This whole “add easy to Dark Souls” feels very Gen Z or Gen Alpha to me (a “must skip a 6 seconds video because it didn’t grab me in the first 3 seconds” mindset)
This whole “add easy to Dark Souls” feels very Gen Z or Gen Alpha to me (a “must skip a 6 seconds video because it didn’t grab me in the first 3 seconds” mindset)
The enemies themselves had a lives count, if I'm remembering right, which was an interesting idea that made the local area easier (fewer enemies) but the overall game harder (collecting souls became even more of a grind with an eventual hard cap on the number you could collect*). You could reset enemies' lives with a bonfire ascetic but then they would get levelled up, again making things harder. I quite like the mechanic -- it helps you out in the immediate but stiffs you long-term... very Dark Souls.
*Assuming it applied to all enemies... I really can't recall whether a handful always respawned or not.
My mind immediately went to Witcher 3 when reading this, and how some players talked about wanting to disable the objective markers but it just making the game painful because it really wasn't designed to be played with them off. For this kind of thing I reckon there's a sweet spot somewhere between "patronising" and "unnavigable" that's quite tricky for developers to nail.
Anyway, difficulty sliders are an awful idea, to me. In Oblivion you never know whether an area is supposed to be too difficult for you presently, or if you're just not very good and should tweak the slider. Once you touch that dial, that's it -- all the weight of everything, gone.
Saber
Member
I'm still happy that after all these years worth of soy tears from both gaming journalists and clowns, Fromsoft remains true to their vision.
Namecall whoever you want if makes you happy, they won't gonna change that. Go play other games on journalist mode and be happy.
Namecall whoever you want if makes you happy, they won't gonna change that. Go play other games on journalist mode and be happy.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
How about letting individual devs do things their own way when the result has been games that are extremely well received?
Honestly, more people need to be encouraged to drink a tall glass of STFU.
Especially in the press, because often they use their opinion to create a narrative where something is a "problem" - in this instance the historic perception that Souls games are super difficult -, then jump-in with equally dubiously considered solutions.
Obviously part of the enthusiast press's schtick is an inherent implication of expertise, but as everyone should have figured out by now THEY AREN'T EXPERTS. Most of them aren't even particularly good writers. They are mostly just hecklers gifted with a bully pulpit to talk shite from.
Honestly, more people need to be encouraged to drink a tall glass of STFU.
Especially in the press, because often they use their opinion to create a narrative where something is a "problem" - in this instance the historic perception that Souls games are super difficult -, then jump-in with equally dubiously considered solutions.
Obviously part of the enthusiast press's schtick is an inherent implication of expertise, but as everyone should have figured out by now THEY AREN'T EXPERTS. Most of them aren't even particularly good writers. They are mostly just hecklers gifted with a bully pulpit to talk shite from.
Rawbutt Jellybean
Member
Not having difficulty options is one of the main reasons they stood out and gained a following. Not everyone needs to be able to easily complete every game.
Truthtellers
Neo Member
I hope From Software make their games harder.