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Gamespy: Is a 2005 launch for Xbox 2 the best idea for Microsoft?

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GigaDrive

Banned
Microsoft has had quite the adventure with Xbox, its foray into the console-gaming world. Though the company has had some successes, it's also had many failures with Xbox. Compared to Sony, the dominant player in the field, Microsoft has struggled to put up numbers that are even fractions of the competition. All that said, Xbox was clearly a learning experience for the company. It's an old adage that Microsoft doesn't get anything right until version three. But what does version two of the Xbox have in store?

Last week, we posted a two-part feature listing everything we know about the Xbox 2. By several accounts, the system is set to launch in Q4 2005. It'll be on the market before Sony's and Nintendo's new machines. In this installment of Spy/CounterSpy, two of our console editors argue whether a 2005 launch is the best idea for Microsoft.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xbox 2? More like Xbox Too Early
Raymond Padilla, Senior Console Editor

Usually it's incredibly advantageous to be first. So many companies, products, people, and things have succeeded over the competition, simply because it was first. In the case of Xbox 2, I don't think it's a good idea.

First, there's the public perception of the move. Part of the allure of Xbox is that it is the most powerful console system on the market. While this may not matter as much to hardcore gamers (people that realize content is king), it matters a hell of a lot to the mainstream. Let's take a sample of the market for example -- sports gamers. There are a large number of people out there that buy nothing but sports games and the machine that runs the best-looking ones. These kinds of gamers love Xbox. They don't care about bigger software libraries or more unique titles; they want the machine that makes Madden or NBA Live look the best.

There are also many casual gamers that buy one system and want the most kick-ass box on the market. These people are also down with Xbox. They'll buy it simply because it's more powerful. And to them, more powerful means better. They don't know all the little nuances and quirks native to the other two machines at GameStop. The salesperson told them that Xbox does graphics better than the other two.

Releasing Xbox 2 in 2005 will continue Microsoft's horsepower advantage in the short term, but kill it in the long term. You can bet your bottom dollar (I'm still trying to figure what that means exactly. I heard in Annie. Sue me.) that Sony will spend a lot of time and money espousing how wondrously powerful PlayStation 3 will be. It will put a giant effort into making people think that PlayStation 3 is worth the wait and that consumers should hold off on Xbox 2 and Nintendo's Revolution. In the long term there's a very high chance that Xbox 2 will go from having the most powerful system in the generation to the least powerful of the next. Its competitors get an extra year or two of research and development to help ensure this (though Nintendo's seems to be anti-horsepower these days).

Then there are the actual games. From everything I've heard, Xbox 2 development kits have just started to trickle out this summer and many third-party developers haven't received them yet. This doesn't leave a lot of time to make games (let alone good ones). Presumably, one of the reasons XNA was concocted is to help shorten development times for the Xbox 2. In theory it should help, but there are many tools and resources that developers will need that haven't been created yet. This should lead to a launch lineup that will not change anyone's perception that launch lineups are weak.

Personally, I'll be happy if Xbox 2 comes out next year. It'll make 2005 more interesting and give me more things to write about. Objectively, I don't see that it's a good idea. It's too little time between systems for Microsoft. There are still lots of successes to be had on its first system. Why cannibalize those by releasing the sequel too early? I'm not saying that Xbox 2 will go the way of the Dreamcast (a good example of first not necessarily being best), but I think an extra year of seasoning would have made for a better product.


Tradition Suffocates Innovation
William Tuttle, Xbox Editor

Tradition. It's a good thing when it comes to holidays and family events, but it has no place in the world of technology. If a company is going to innovate and push an industry forward, they need to forget about traditions and make their own rules. With that said, I find it a bit surprising that so many people are complaining about Microsoft ignoring the traditional six year console cycle as they prepare to release their next console at the end of 2005.

There aren't any rules that say a company cannot release a console less than four years after their previous system hit the market, and even if there was, Microsoft has never been one to follow rules, which is part of what made them one of the largest tech companies in the world. Without innovation, the game industry wouldn't have become as huge as it is right now, and it certainly won't continue to grow. Microsoft realizes this, and it's preparing to take on the gaming behemoth that is Sony by striking first, much like Sega did when releasing their Genesis system towards the end of the Nintendo Entertainment System's run at the top of the game world.

In many ways, it's always best to be first. By putting out a powerful next generation console well before your competitors, you're more likely to capture the hardcore gamer market that simply has to have the newest and strongest machine available. And don't be fooled, there are more and more "hardcore" gamers being created every day. These are the people that set the trends that more casual gamers follow, and they are extremely important to the success of a console. If Microsoft can put out a machine that blows these people away, and they passionately spread the word like they usually do, a lot of people will follow their lead.

Now, there are also a lot of drawbacks to being the first console on the market, primarily that your competitors will be more likely to notice the success and flaws of your system, then design theirs accordingly. Graphics play a huge part, as well. Many gamers are so-called "graphics whores", who simply want the system that will make their favorite games look great. While there is a very strong chance that Sony's and Nintendo's next consoles will have better graphics than the Microsoft's, how many gamers will want to wait a year or more for the PS3 when all of their friends are enjoying the sure-to-be-amazing sights and sounds found on the Xbox 2? Sports gamers are a perfect example of this type of person, and you can be sure that just about any of them would rather play Madden 2006 on the Xbox 2 than on the PS2 (especially since Microsoft is already beating up on Sony in the online gaming market).

Some people are also worried that many developers won't have the money or resources to make both current generation and next generation versions of their games. This is true in many ways, but the biggest developers, like EA and UbiSoft, shouldn't have much of a problem developing games for both generations. In some ways, the shift may have already begun. At this year's E3, UbiSoft was showing demos of the gorgeous Splinter Cell 3, but it was only playing on a PC, and still hasn't been announced for any of the current consoles. Could Splinter Cell 3 be a possible launch title for Xbox 2? It might be the only console that can handle the game's advanced lighting techniques, judging by the irritating (and frequent) loading screens found the in PS2 version of the last Splinter Cell game.

The big question might be whether Microsoft is trying to permanently shorten the traditional console cycle. If they keep releasing consoles every four years, will Sony stick to their six-year guns, or will they try to keep up? And more importantly, will consumers feel like spending a few hundred dollars every 4 or 5 years on a new console? Many PC gamers spend that much upgrading video cards or processors (or even whole systems) every few years, so it's not a stretch to think that there are a lot of console gamers who would do the same. And they'll still never have to worry about the compatibility problems that plague their PC brethren.

No matter what happens, the next year is shaping up to be one of the most interesting in the history of console gaming. With all three companies striving to be the best, there's only one guaranteed winner: the gamers.

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/528/528105p1.html

that wasnt half bad to read, eh? I pretty much agree with most of their points.
 

AniHawk

Member
The big question might be whether Microsoft is trying to permanently shorten the traditional console cycle. If they keep releasing consoles every four years, will Sony stick to their six-year guns, or will they try to keep up? And more importantly, will consumers feel like spending a few hundred dollars every 4 or 5 years on a new console?

I really hope not.
 
Consoles need to have a 5 year cycle at a minimum. Most of the time you don't even see the full potential of the system till then. So if MS wants to play with the 4 year cycles, let them. I just hope Sony and Nintendo don't do the same.
 

GigaDrive

Banned
I don't want Xbox 2 in 2005 then Xbox 3 in 2009

Microsoft should go with a 5 year cycle, while Sony goes with a 5 to 6 year cycle. Nintendo should also keep their 5 year cycles.
 

Chopin Trusty Balls

First casualty in the war on idioticy.
While they obviously wont become nr.1 and Sony will sell PS3 in mad numbers around launch,XB2 marketshare will still be much higher then that of the xbox,thus reaching MSFTS target.

Not to mention visuals reach the point you cant make that much of a leap anymore.
Xbox used techs like bumpmaping this gen,but the only technique that is left to be implemented is Global Lighting/Illumination,it will be in Direct Next,thats it,there arent any really groundbreaking technics left to be implemented,and there arent any on horizont either.

So,XB2 makes more profit and reaches bigger marketshare=MS wins.

Not sure about consumers,not sure about consumers but they will probobly have some advantage from more heated up Sony/MS battle
 

Chrono

Banned
Fleming said:
Not sure about consumers,not sure about consumers but they will probobly have some advantage from more heated up Sony/MS battle

You forgot Nintendo there. The revolution will come and Nintendo will issue a bitch-slappin' like we've never seen 'em before. Names will be taken. Asses will be kicked. Blood will be shed.

IN 2006 A REVOLUTION WILL HAPPEN PEOPLE!


[/nintendo whore]
 
I still dont see what launching early buys them.

In terms of game lineups I expect the end result to look similar to this gen. Sony gets all the Japan support. MS gets the PC developers thanks to ease of porting.

The only change will be which will be the most powerful system. I guess it'll be cheaper in the long run for MS if they have older HW. That's the only advantage I see coming out of this.
 

GigaDrive

Banned
MS currently has more or less, 15% marketshare, if they can increase that to at least 25% I think MS will concider that a victory, paving the way for Xbox 3.
 

Deg

Banned
Its pretty clear the reasoning for the launch periods are due to profit. Which is why Sony and Nintendo want to not rush and MS do. For marketshare cant really say anything yet other than wishful thinking.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
I honestly don't expect there to be very much perceivable GRAPHICAL difference between any of the next gen machines. Certainly from a casual gamer perspective, i don't think there will be that much of a gap.

Meanwhile , Sony seem to be betting the farm on Cell. For the good of the industry, you've got to hope that they're got it right, because if they haven't , i think they are fucked.
 

Deg

Banned
DCharlie said:
I honestly don't expect there to be very much perceivable GRAPHICAL difference between any of the next gen machines. Certainly from a casual gamer perspective, i don't think there will be that much of a gap.

Meanwhile , Sony seem to be betting the farm on Cell. For the good of the industry, you've got to hope that they're got it right, because if they haven't , i think they are fucked.

It'll be similar to this gen. You'll see the differences depending on time of release.

Sony will be fine.
 

Bebpo

Banned
I figure graphically differences will be mainly in framerate. Similar to how some multiplatform games do <30fps on PS2, while 30-60fps unstable on GC, and 60fps locked on xbox. I figure you flip around the order and that's what we'll be seeing since developers always want to push the max amount of graphics at any given time and the only thing that holds them back from adding more polygons/effects is the framerate.
 

Mrbob

Member
DCharlie said:
I honestly don't expect there to be very much perceivable GRAPHICAL difference between any of the next gen machines. Certainly from a casual gamer perspective, i don't think there will be that much of a gap.

Meanwhile , Sony seem to be betting the farm on Cell. For the good of the industry, you've got to hope that they're got it right, because if they haven't , i think they are fucked.


Woa. Deja Vu. Just got flashbacks from 1997-1998 before the PS2 specs were fully revealed. They were d00m3d then too.

Personally, I'd like to see Xbox 2 as teh winnAr next gen (Xbox Live! ownz j00. Suck it crap ass PS2 online.), but I don't see it happening.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"Woa. Deja Vu. Just got flashbacks from 1997-1998 before the PS2 specs were fully revealed. They were d00m3d then too."

he he.

This time i don't think there will be that much of a difference.

By the time PS3 launches , XBox 2 should be hitting 3rd gen games which should be pushing the machine hard.

I know sony are specifically working on games that are "demonstratably next gen", so it could hopefully be that the launch software for the PS3 is just so astonishingly good that the difference will be there to see.

We shall see - i don't think this situation is going to be anything like the DC v PS2 give that i expect MS to get very very good 3rd party support this time. As it's all about games, and not how much power is under the hood (well, when we compare Ps2 vs XB it is anyways) MS could punctures Sonys dingy by having big name games within that two year time frame.

"Sony will be fine."

Well, the level of investment they are putting into Cell means that it BETTER work out or they are gonna have a sizable hole in their books. I know they point to "Ah, it's okay - we are unlike any chip maker , because we can absorb a large number of the Cells into our TVs etc..." - but your STILL gonna have to cover the Cell costs (more expensive tvs / aux units) and those costs look to be very very high.
 

FightyF

Banned
The focus on all of these machines seem to be raw horsepower from the CPU.

If Sony's and Nintendo's technologies come out a full year later...I can see them being far more powerful than the Xbox 2. It's just a gut-feeling I got.
 

Hournda

Member
Although both articles gave good arguments I still think it's better for everyone involved if Xbox2 is launched in 2006. While the big devs might be able to develop for both Xbox1 and 2 most of the others will have to pick. It also cannibalizes into my investment in Xbox1 and I don't want to start to have to buy consoles every 4 years instead of every 5-6. All the arguments in the pro-launch in 2005 article could have been made about the Dreamcast and look what happened to that. If Xbox2 launches in 2005 it will have to have tons of good games (and where are these games going to come from being that it's mid-2004 already and nothing has been announced) to even stand a chance of not being another Dreamcast.
 
DCharlie said:
I honestly don't expect there to be very much perceivable GRAPHICAL difference between any of the next gen machines. Certainly from a casual gamer perspective, i don't think there will be that much of a gap.

Meanwhile , Sony seem to be betting the farm on Cell. For the good of the industry, you've got to hope that they're got it right, because if they haven't , i think they are fucked.

LOL. Mr. Sony can do no right.
 
Well Raymond has rarely had a good thing to say about the Xbox. His comments are amusing when he speaks of Microsoft. I don't really take his article to seriously on the subject.

The four year cycle for one of the consoles is fine with me. If people don't support it then they don't. Nobody is forcing you to buy an Xbox 2.
 

Nicco

Member
I do prefer Rob Fahey's rant over at gi.biz. At least his is one that touches on facts that actually matter.

Power doesn't matter to the mainstream consumer it all. What the mainstream consumer wants is games. The console with the biggest game library always wins. Xenon (likely) having no backwards compatibility is going to hurt MS from the outset. They are basically starting at zero.

The most convincing reason for not having a 2005 launch is third-party support. Generally speaking, publishers are going to make money on their games for PS2 and GCN, they are not going to make money on games for Xenon. Not only because the games will cost more money to make, but because PS2 and GCN actually have a user base.

I think most major third-party publishers are hessitant to jump on board because of the simple fact that they will lose money making games for Xenon. If third-parties don't back Xenon, then there will be less games. If there is less games then the mainstream consumer will ignore Xenon.
 

FightyF

Banned
His comments are amusing when he speaks of Microsoft. I don't really take his article to seriously on the subject.

Your first sentence may be true...but I agree with all of his points.

A 2005 launch seems hasty to me. If MS does it right...it can be great for the gamers as well as them. If they do it wrong, it will be another Dreamcast, which launched a year before the PS2. Somewhat great for gamers, but it could have been much better.
 

P90

Member
DCharlie said:
"Woa. Deja Vu. Just got flashbacks from 1997-1998 before the PS2 specs were fully revealed. They were d00m3d then too."

he he.

This time i don't think there will be that much of a difference.

By the time PS3 launches , XBox 2 should be hitting 3rd gen games which should be pushing the machine hard.

I know sony are specifically working on games that are "demonstratably next gen", so it could hopefully be that the launch software for the PS3 is just so astonishingly good that the difference will be there to see.

We shall see - i don't think this situation is going to be anything like the DC v PS2 give that i expect MS to get very very good 3rd party support this time. As it's all about games, and not how much power is under the hood (well, when we compare Ps2 vs XB it is anyways) MS could punctures Sonys dingy by having big name games within that two year time frame.

"Sony will be fine."

Well, the level of investment they are putting into Cell means that it BETTER work out or they are gonna have a sizable hole in their books. I know they point to "Ah, it's okay - we are unlike any chip maker , because we can absorb a large number of the Cells into our TVs etc..." - but your STILL gonna have to cover the Cell costs (more expensive tvs / aux units) and those costs look to be very very high.

MS has MUCH deeper pockets than Sony. Sony rolls for high stakes and bets the farm. Sony has been lucky so far in the console business, sans PSX monster. And smart. I would not count Nintendo out, either. My money is still on PS3. But the Pistons beat the Lakers and bad...
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
2006 would be better for Xenon. I see the problem being the first X-BOX though...Microsoft does not want to continue bleeding money on it. Then what about their own content? They're finding themselves in a similar situation Nintendo did near the end of the N64's lifespan especially now since they have RARE. Do they fill out the first X-BOX's exclussive line-up of games or do they move the majority of these projects to launch/first generation Xenon games so as to make sure Xenon starts off on the right foot? Nintendo found themselves in that situation and it ended up making the N64 look even bleaker near the end of it's life and some/most of the games that were moved to GAMECUBE seriously lacked the awe they had in the previous generation: Dinosaur Planet, Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil Zero, Left Feild & RARE games. Eventually, Nintendo's once "steller" line-up of 2ND party developers were dropped/lost durring the GAMECUBE's lifespan and Nintendo's own content (without this steller "back-up") seem to "lack" in the eyes of gamers this generation as oppossed to last.

That problem is with MS now, only they're delibratly launching Xenon sooner which only creates more problems for content. Of course the "headstart" advantage is nice and plus they'll be cutting short the first X-BOX which is gonna make them bleed until they STOP making/selling them. But what about content for the first X-BOX? What about the X-BOX gamer? The first X-BOX's life will be shortened and without BC to help the transition for it, it's gamers & it's developers it's going to hit the eventual brick wall the N64 did in regards to content. Microsoft will want 3RD parties to start moving to next generation...including thier own game developement teams. PD Zero will likely be on Xenon as an early "killer app", but will it really perform looking back at how games like that were moved from one generation to the next? Let alone that this is the gutted RARE here. So we have X-BOX losing momentum and being cut short while the first generation of Xenon "killer apps" will be projects that were moved (possibly prematurly) from X-BOX. Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft doesn't have alot of exclussive content to back this up or to fill in the gaps. This is where third parties come in, yes, but I think alot of this early outside support is going to be simply better looking multiplatform stuff or paid for support. No Soul Caliber exclussive like the DC had, hell not even the same exclussive line-up Sega had for DC. Xenon will have EA support (unlike DC), but what about exclussives, what about killer apps and system selling first/second party stuff? RARE? Perfect Dark Zero? A couple months after Xenon launches *another* Halo sequel...this time you can carry three guns?

I've attacked Xenon at the business & features and all those other angles in other threads...but now I'm going at it at a content level...really...what will be on the Xenon that is going to make it be the success it will *need* to be for this "headstart" strategy to really make a difference?

In more ways than one the X-BOX looks like Microsoft's N64, while the Xenon looks like their GAMECUBE. The Xenon is no rebel-reincarnation of the Genisis X-BOX fans want us to believe...it will be seen as premature as the DC and as lacking as the GC in most people's eyes.
 

Auron

Member
Next gen systems will graphically look very similar, so in that respect Microsoft will have an advantage. The question is whether they can get some solid support without Sony and Nintendo upgrading their systems too. If you are a developer, are you going to spend more money to develop for one platform with an install base of a couple million, or are you going to stick with the 100 million install base between the 3 current consoles(at a lower development budget)? It remains to be seen whether Microsoft has enough clought to lead the pack.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
DCharlie said:
"Woa. Deja Vu. Just got flashbacks from 1997-1998 before the PS2 specs were fully revealed. They were d00m3d then too."

he he.

This time i don't think there will be that much of a difference.

By the time PS3 launches , XBox 2 should be hitting 3rd gen games which should be pushing the machine hard.

I know sony are specifically working on games that are "demonstratably next gen", so it could hopefully be that the launch software for the PS3 is just so astonishingly good that the difference will be there to see.

We shall see - i don't think this situation is going to be anything like the DC v PS2 give that i expect MS to get very very good 3rd party support this time. As it's all about games, and not how much power is under the hood (well, when we compare Ps2 vs XB it is anyways) MS could punctures Sonys dingy by having big name games within that two year time frame.

"Sony will be fine."

Well, the level of investment they are putting into Cell means that it BETTER work out or they are gonna have a sizable hole in their books. I know they point to "Ah, it's okay - we are unlike any chip maker , because we can absorb a large number of the Cells into our TVs etc..." - but your STILL gonna have to cover the Cell costs (more expensive tvs / aux units) and those costs look to be very very high.


DCharlie, what of "a BIG part of CELL related costs is the investment they made for CMOS5 and CMOS6 ( 65 nm and 45 nm technologies respectively ) and their two new fabs ( one in Nagasaki and one in Oita )" is still missing from your line of reasoning ?

Do you think that using CMOS5 in their new fabs they will be able to make ONLY CELL chips and only chips for PlayStation 3 ?

Kutaragi plans to shift most of the advanced chips Sony will try to make in house ( decreasing the chips they buy from competitors basically ) to the new fabs they are building.

How do I know that ?

Well, when he said "do not entirely associate the new fabs ( and semiconductor investments ) with specific products", that was what he had in mind.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
I dont think that MS launching a year ahead will be so bad although its not something i want. for 1, by the time ps3 hits, devs will have had experienced with the x2 yet still finding their legs with the ps3 so the graphics will be comparable for awhile. As far as ps3 launch hype, all MS needs is halo 3. if you figure ps3 could come anywhere between 2006-2007, bungie will have 2-3 years to get halo 3 in. even without halo 3, ANY other "must have" exclusive could help MS. anyone remember PS2s launch? fantavision? Ridge Racer? it was bone dry after that for awhile. If sony makes the same mistake, they wont have the same luxuries they had this gen.
 

ypo

Member
Some of the xboys sound like Sega fanboys back in the early Dreamcast days...oh wait, they are.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
Theres a huge difference though. Sega was basically ready to pull the plug when the ps2 finally hit. isnt it true that the GC and XB *still* have yet to pass DCs userbase COMBINED? The DC didnt do as bad as people make it out to be. Sega was also on broke street. MS is rich. They need something else for income just as sony needed another source of income when conceiving the PlayStation brand.
 

Nicco

Member
BeOnEdge said:
Theres a huge difference though. Sega was basically ready to pull the plug when the ps2 finally hit. isnt it true that the GC and XB *still* have yet to pass DCs userbase COMBINED?
For you to even suggest that goes against your credibility. No it is not true. Inf fact, it couldn't be more false.
 

P90

Member
ypo said:
Some of the xboys sound like Sega fanboys back in the early Dreamcast days...oh wait, they are.

Hey, I liked the $49 DC! I don't think too many here would rate me as an xboy.

Harware-wise MS is acting more and more like a deep pocketed Sega. Nintendo still is cryptic and aloof. Sony is rolling for high stakes and has market momentum and the hype machine. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess.
 

ypo

Member
"Sega was basically ready to pull the plug when the ps2 finally hit"

Did any of you Sega fanboys know this?

"MS is rich."

lol, and the Xbox is a money pit. Tell me again why MS is trying hard to make the Xbox 2 cost *effective* again if they got money to burn?
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
ypo said:
Some of the xboys sound like Sega fanboys back in the early Dreamcast days...oh wait, they are.

A big majority of the X-BOX fans that I know are just that. They bought a DreamCast, got burned so they're clinging to X-BOX like a security blanket. Alot of people figure that with Microsoft's money, power & influence they'll force their dominance eventually so they follow them somehow "knowing" that Microsoft will eventually monopolize gaming. That's why alot of them are so retaliatory against people who're calling Microsoft out on taking away the power edge they boasted about this generation and the features, etc., let alone cutting short the current X-BOX to make way for their Xenon "headstart" strategy. It's the equivelant of yanking away Linus's security blanket...you're gonna get alot of dirty looks followed by angry mumbling and thumb sucking.

I'm not knockin' Sega fans...just X-BOT's...
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
ypo said:
"Sega was basically ready to pull the plug when the ps2 finally hit"

Did any of you Sega fanboys know this?

"MS is rich."

lol, and the Xbox is a money pit. Tell me again why MS is trying hard to make the Xbox 2 cost *effective* again if they got money to burn?

Xbox 2 will be VERY powerful, but it will be cheaper to manufacture down the stretch.

the problem with Xbox was Microsoft would buy the CPUs from Intel and buy the GPUs from Nvidia. Now Microsoft is working with ATI and IBM to design them, and will give them royalties because of lent IP. Microsoft will have them manufactured themselves making it easier to cut costs, make changes in security if necessary (remember the nvidia write-off?) and all around a better business deal for all parties.

It's cost effective, not low cost. Remember that.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
Nicco said:
For you to even suggest that goes against your credibility. No it is not true. Inf fact, it couldn't be more false.

credibility? this is a messege board. i could care less about my credibility here. Anyway, maybe it wasnt the DC. maybe it was teh saturn? its 17 million i know that. either way, wether it be the DC or the saturn, XB and GC combined still havent outsold one of the 2, both "failures"

as far as the whole "security blanket" thing, i bought my consoles in this order DC, ps2, gamecube.....then finally xbox when there was a drought on the ps2 and GC. you cant keep saying sega fans cling to the box. i'm a HUGE sega fan and the fact is most of us bough ALL of the consoles once the DC died to get segas (i'd even say capcoms as well) multiplatform games.
 

ypo

Member
I thought MS is rich and has endless amount of money as some of you suggestted. Why is any of those necessary? And I would consider leaving out a major feature of the Xbox out in its successor "cost cutting".
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
it has nothing to do with the cost of the console. sony plastered the media via commercials and print ads with ps2 ads. for every 1 DC ad there were 5 ps2 ads. sega couldn't afford to even advertise. when i say MS is rich i'm saying that they will not let sony beat them with a hype machine.
 

GigaDrive

Banned
the Xbox userbase has surpassed the Dreamcast's userbase. the GameCube has also.

Dreamcast was at 11-12 million. Xbox and GameCube are both 13-15 million EACH.
 

Chrono

Banned
DopeyFish said:
Xbox 2 will be VERY powerful, but it will be cheaper to manufacture down the stretch.

the problem with Xbox was Microsoft would buy the CPUs from Intel and buy the GPUs from Nvidia. Now Microsoft is working with ATI and IBM to design them, and will give them royalties because of lent IP. Microsoft will have them manufactured themselves making it easier to cut costs, make changes in security if necessary (remember the nvidia write-off?) and all around a better business deal for all parties.

It's cost effective, not low cost. Remember that.

You know your post would make a lot of sense if you're talking about a Nintendo console.. but MICROSOFT? What happened to the "Microsoft has so much cash they'll do this and that'? if they're sacrificing a HDD for costs, how much aggressive should we expect Microsoft to be in getting exclusive games and contents that they need for xdude2? They better enter nex-gen with a fat wallet or else they're going down ( considering X-box did not win the console race and it was Microsoft’s first entry in the race. Just like developers were thinking about N64's failures when considering the cube, they will think about the xbox when considering xbox2 )
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
ypo said:
I thought MS is rich and has endless amount of money as some of you suggestted. Why is any of those necessary? And I would consider leaving out a major feature of the Xbox out in its successor "cost cutting".

Who said the feature was being removed? Maybe Microsoft is designing it so you have the choice to have multiple storage methods? LAN to PC with expendable HD space? Addon hard drive? Memory card? USB Memory key? It's your choice. See, people say streaming this, streaming that... well... imagine that you can still have your custom soundtracks, you can still have DLC... but Microsoft would be pretty much yanking away the lazy developer scratch pad. Microsoft wants developers to not cut corners in which can cause problems (remember how some games would cause your Xbox to run slower?)

Hmmm?
 

ypo

Member
"it has nothing to do with the cost of the console"

That's just an example guy. It means that even Microsoft can't continue to lose money.

"when i say MS is rich i'm saying that they will not let sony beat them with a hype machine."

Yea I'm sure money is the solution to all problems. Can you tell me why the Japanese developers rejecting MS's money hats again?

Edit: But I thought MS's rich, why not give all those features for free. MS is rich man, rich!!!
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Chrono said:
You know your post would make a lot of sense if you're talking about a Nintendo console.. but MICROSOFT? What happened to the "Microsoft has so much cash they'll do this and that'? if they're sacrificing a HDD for costs, how much aggressive should we expect Microsoft to be in getting exclusive games and contents that they need for xdude2? They better enter nex-gen with a fat wallet or else they're going down ( considering X-box did not win the console race and it was Microsoft’s first entry in the race. )

By cost cutting i meant it's easier to have a direct approach than to do it through another party. It saves money and time. Check my above post about the HDD, though. MS is certainly not being a nintendo... maybe in terms of system efficiency this time... but they will be throwing a LOT of pure power this time instead of un-attainable raw power.
 

BeOnEdge

Banned
maybe its because they had no chance in japan? maybe its because MS offered NOTHING for japan this gen? everyone knows MS was a joke in japan their first time out. was segas master system successful here against the nes? NO. what about round 2?

"But I thought MS's rich, why not give all those features for free. MS is rich man, rich!!!"

now ur just trying to be funny.
 

ypo

Member
So we are in agreement that money is not the solution to all problems right?

"now ur just trying to be funny."


WTF are you talking about. I'm just repeating what you Xboys been screaming at the top of your lungs for the past few years and love to remind everyone how much money MS has in the banks.
 
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