Support NeoGAF

[nowhat]

The game is stunning and, given that it was written and produced in California

This seems to be a common misconception, but Sucker Punch is located in Bellevue, WA. Hence Second Son (set in Seattle) was almost like "home" to them.

 

[Komatsu]

This seems to be a common misconception, but Sucker Punch is located in Bellevue, WA. Hence Second Son (set in Seattle) was almost like "home" to them.

I stand corrected!

 

[Flame_alchemist]

I'm still pretty early but not to big of the no "lock on" I usually rush the archer first but jin keeps starring at shield guys.

 

[Flame_alchemist]

To the people who struggle or dislike the combat, what is the problem do you think?

I'm loving the combat, the bow is WAY WAY WAY too overpowered once you upgrade it and get the slow motion, but I think the combat overall is slick, fast, satisfying and responsive to play. I don't see the problem here. Apart from the A.I. being too dumb.

I'm still pretty early but not to big of the no "lock on" I usually rush the archer first but jin keeps starring at shield guys.
The roll and dodge can be tricky at times, it does one instead of the other.

 

[UncleMeat]

I can't help but think about how it's the exact opposite of Red Dead 2 in certain ways in a really good way. I'm talking about not wasting time with annoying shit. Like I respect what they did in RDR2 but looting and skinning animations every single time got old real quick. Instant looting is so much nicer and less annoying.

It also cuts out boring stuff with cutscenes that would have been some long slog horse ride in rdr2. For example there's a side quest where an NPC buries some family members. I thought if this was rdr2 i would've had to go pick up the bodies and bring them back one by one and throw them in a grave. But in GoT it just cuts to them being buried already.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm probably 10-12 hours in the game. It might be my favorite open world game visually. The world is so lush and beautiful. The story, while simple, is enjoyable (though it does lean a little too idealistically into the honor of Samurai) as is the cast of characters and voice work

But the combat is kind of a drag. Mechanically it's not bad (besides the stealth which isn't great), the opposite really and at times it feels really satisfying. Standoffs are a neat mechanic especially as they fill your resolve. The bigger issue is the enemy variety and it feels like every combat encounter plays out the same. The game just throws a few archers, spear men, shield barriers and swordsman at you. Occasionally you'll get a brute or a Mongol leader to mix things up, but it's all a really simple game of rock, paper, scissors in which you pick an appropriate stance and parry to kill (swordsmen), dodge to kill (spear men, brutes), or break guard to kill (shield barriers). You can spice things up with quickfire gear (Kunai are really effective to get through encounters faster) but I do wish the game had a few more tricks up its' sleeve (maybe it does later?).

And that's a shame. The world is full of collectibles to upgrade your health, resolve and charms slots, resources for upgrading your weapons, armor and gear and items to customize how your character and mount look, but it all feels a bit pointless when you are presented the same encounters time and time again which is a shame Some of the side quests have interesting narratives and some of the Shrine climbs are fun and feel akin to those Prince of Persia segments in the AC games prior to Origins. Writing haiku is a really clever idea and the hot spring memories area nice touch in developing Jin's character.

Yep, shitty enemy variety is another problem, i don't even use the stance system because enemy go down pretty easily with any stance after a couple of damage upgrades.

 

[CrysisFreak]

I think the perfect parry window should be slightly longer by default.
It's quite hard to pull off both intentionally and consistently.
And yes I know about the charm.
Oh well normal parries are powerful too so whatever.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I can't help but think about how it's the exact opposite of Red Dead 2 in certain ways in a really good way. I'm talking about not wasting time with annoying shit. Like I respect what they did in RDR2 but looting and skinning animations every single time got old real quick. Instant looting is so much nicer and less annoying.

It also cuts out boring stuff with cutscenes that would have been some long slog horse ride in rdr2. For example there's a side quest where an NPC buries some family members. I thought if this was rdr2 i would've had to go pick up the bodies and bring them back one by one and throw them in a grave. But in GoT it just cuts to them being buried already.

And in Death Stranding you'd have to carry them to the other end of the map.

 

[UncleMeat]

And in Death Stranding you'd have to carry them to the other end of the map.

lol. Ya I'm a huge metal gear fan but I'll never play Death Stranding, it looks painfully unfun.

 

[GymWolf]

Limp of tsushima

 

[cormack12]

I can't help but think about how it's the exact opposite of Red Dead 2 in certain ways in a really good way. I'm talking about not wasting time with annoying shit. Like I respect what they did in RDR2 but looting and skinning animations every single time got old real quick. Instant looting is so much nicer and less annoying.

It also cuts out boring stuff with cutscenes that would have been some long slog horse ride in rdr2. For example there's a side quest where an NPC buries some family members. I thought if this was rdr2 i would've had to go pick up the bodies and bring them back one by one and throw them in a grave. But in GoT it just cuts to them being buried already.

Yeah, I had the same thought. It makes no apologies for being a game and everything is tailored to how important it is to the gameplay. There is no aping movies here. Everything is about removing those annoying but realistic barriers that just wear down your enthusiasm. Want to fast travel? Sure, 2/3 seconds. Want to loot that plant without getting off your horse? Sure, it's a game why would we make you dismount just for that? Died in an encounter, no worries, you can try again in 5 seconds. I really like the balance they've struck with this, and really hope more open world developers follow this trend. Similar to how Odyssey is loot on run over as well

 

[CrysisFreak]

Even Mack from Worthabuy likes this game lmao

 

[Jaxcellent]

This game has some great combat, i'm searching the lands for mongols to kill.

Also, I like the secondary weapons, i upgraded my ghost weapons and with a charm that boosts the ghost weapons the sticky bombs are rather lethal.

Can't wait to start playing again when i'm done with work today.

 

[shubik]

I'm still pretty early but not to big of the no "lock on" I usually rush the archer first but jin keeps starring at shield guys.
The roll and dodge can be tricky at times, it does one instead of the other.

If you press O once Jin will dodge. Press O twice and he will do a roll. In the heat of the combat, I sometimes tend to smash the button repeatedly. Takes some time to get used to it.

 

[Klayzer]

Broke away from my Alatreon farming to play some hot samurai action. Still early in my playthrough, love what I've seen so far. No lock on is semi annoying. So many games, not enough time.

 

[Exentryk]

I do miss the 'pick all loot automatically' ability like in AC games. It's boring and annoying to do that manually.

 

[ZeroZeroQuatre]

I came across this interesting spot, and I'm just unable to tell if this is intentional or if I was just lucky
Did anyone else find/see this ?

I turned it into a moment of reflection :

 

[Shakka43]

I'm still pretty early but not to big of the no "lock on" I usually rush the archer first but jin keeps starring at shield guys.
The roll and dodge can be tricky at times, it does one instead of the other.

It does the roll when you are pushing the left stick at any direction, for just dodging you need to be standing still.

 

[Nankatsu]

I came across this interesting spot, and I'm just unable to tell if this is intentional or if I was just lucky
Did anyone else find/see this ?

I turned it into a moment of reflection :

You're talking about the deers on the rocks right?

 

[ZeroZeroQuatre]

You're talking about the deers on the rocks right?

Yes, I immediately thought of this :

 

[Mista]

The dance of wrath move makes me want to jizz my pants everytime! Such a sexy move especially when all the hits connects!

 

[SpartanForce666]

So here is my "Jisei" (Japanese Death Poem):

I will be blunt; of all the games of this generation; this one is top tier.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Taking a Bloodborne/Sekiro approach to combat makes the game a bit too easy. I wish there was an option to disable From Software games from my memory. Parry and directional dodge are OP.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Going full archer is fun if you havent tried it.

Its strong.

I haven't invested much into it yet, I have the mythic gear and the longbow and the first slow mo perk. I think if you max its skills, weapons, armor and get all arrow types is stupidly powerful. You can AoE fools from safe distance, use slow mo to outshoot other archers.

I typically whip out an explosive arrow on those patrols at the roads. Whoever survives is severely injured anyway.

 

[denisonja]

Yeah, in almost all games of this type i try to upgrade bow first.... Slowing down time is a must for me.... Picking them from far and then going in swords blazin.... Really dislike stealth mechanics in all games so im trying avoiding it as much as possible....

 

[Bryank75]

Yep, shitty enemy variety is another problem, i don't even use the stance system because enemy go down pretty easily with any stance after a couple of damage upgrades.

There are more enemies and elite variants later... they change the way they attack and might have 2 swords instead of 1 or explosive weapons....

 

[Knitted Knight]

You want the roll to leave you close for a counter attack? do you want a cake too? The roll it's the most overpowered defense in this shit, it gets you out of almost everything it should at least have a disadvantage since there is no stamina to be worried of.

I think that is the goal Sucker Punch designers had in mind when they made that roll range as far as it does and in essence behave like a double roll in other games in the genre. A get out of jail free card. Where it goes wrong is that a player can often miss-press a sidestep in an encounter (at least once on average, specially if surrounded by a mob) and thus fall into an unwanted roll that takes the player away from the action completely and forces the player to recenter the camera on the action/enemies. Meanwhile as you wrestle with the camera to recenter after the "extended-range roll" the enemies already repositioned themselves with respect to you (enemies have lock-on, you don't) and you probably lost sight of your target and are in no way positioned to attack or even evade properly.

A smarter design would have the player do a short-range roll animation for one circle press, then another short-range roll animation for the double press. Here the player as he rolls has all the visual cues to decide by himself whether he's far enough from the enemy to dodge the attack (on an initial roll) or whether he needs more distance and thus go for a double-roll by doing the extra circle press. But the sidestep (in Ghost) and the roll (as implemented in other games) overlap controls so I can see the issue they ran into. They fell in love with that sidestep. If the designers want to keep the sidestep (as it defines the uniqueness of the combat) AND also the roll (and have it all work seamlessly); the option here for them is to make the double-circle press a short-range roll, and a triple circle press a double-roll. Hold-circle is also a bandaid for a single roll to avoid miss-pressing - don't know how it would work for double rolls however. Anyway they decide, that single-animation extended-range roll needs to go.

Alternatively they could rid themselves of the roll evade altogether by adding a backstep after a sidestep (same button press, directional circle, followed by circle). But I guess the problem the designers will run into is enemy collision as the sidestep puts you right beside enemies for a quick counter. If you're surrounded by a mob, a backstep after a sidestep could potential put you right next to one and be hammered either way - defeating the purpose - not to mention it would look hella weird without proper collision animations in an environment rich on random variables. Not easy.

Thus we come back to my conclusion - they need to tweak that "extended range single-roll aka double roll" and go traditional like Sekiro/Ni-Oh/God of War single rolls. They have to decide that themselves however - perhaps they come up with something better. What they have right now however is poor design that leads to confusion. The user who brought it up is the perfect example of a player experiencing the gripe. I merely agreed that it exists because it's obvious after playing for a while. It's not a git-gud problem.

And here is another player. No one that has played this game hasn't encountered this. It's unavoidable by law of averages.

I'm still pretty early but not to big of the no "lock on" I usually rush the archer first but jin keeps starring at shield guys.
The roll and dodge can be tricky at times, it does one instead of the other.

Also, lock on is for bitches, the camera just needs to learn to position itself better and make more stuff invisible. Some of the games with the best combat are completely playable without lock on, like DMCV (you only use lock to input directional commands), Monster Hunter or even Souls games.

Lock-on is an option. It's a tried and true option - and the enemies in this game obviously have lock-on (surprisingly the player does not). The bottomline is that whatever the game has right now is not working properly or to phrase it differently - very far from optimal. God of War has lock on and puts as many enemies on screen too. And the player has the choice of playing with or without lock-on. The character in God of War also takes much more space on the screen (meaning a lot of things go behind the players eye-view that he does not see). But GOW has very good camera re-centering and implements a crutch with the down- d-pad, plus companion (the boy/head) alert of incoming attack and has visual alerts/aids around the screen. All the aids employed - done unobtrusively.

So what I'm saying is - there is no excuse to not come up with a better camera recentering system, with or without lock-on (which should always be there as a toggle-able choice). What you have now is players trying to fight both the enemies and the camera (with no aids at all). Every time the character gets out of enemy range or gets into a mob the camera will present all sort of problems when trying to pick targets/evading or when going on the offensive.

One way that players behave and are behaving to solve this problem is simply backing-up and backing-up and backing-up when faced by mobs to pick an enemy out of the bunch that's closer to the character (as he retreats). That happens in other games but in this game it will happen a hell of a lot more often - and depending on the size of the mob even that can be an issue as you usually get a trail of 3 enemies very close on you alternating attacks (taking turns) between themselves. In essence; given the lack of lock-on and proper camera recentering the player is trying to "cheat" enemy AI to get the same result of lock-on. Funny how that works.

Batman Arkham solves their mob problem with one solution (technically several but the main one with respect to this is) - the triangle counter (brilliant design), with brilliant camera work to go along with it. They could look into that as well. In other words, not every counter/evade maneuver has to be tied to circle. Parry is not an evade/counter unless you tie an uninterruptible animation that punishes, automatically, as the parry lands (becoming a counter sort of like in Arkham or a "mikiri counter" in Sekiro).

To allude that wresting with the camera is part of a git-gud process is to me beyond dumb.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I don't see how lock on is going to help this game.

Say, you're fighting 6 guys. And as proven already they don't wait out their turn. One will do a stab from the front, another will do a shield bash from behind and another will try to shoot an arrow in your face while others are surrounding you. If you lock on to the front chances are you will be hit by an arrow or by the one who does a shield bash. Try to roll in a proper angle or back block in a game with lock on.

I tend to hate dealing with crowds with lock on enabled in about any action game, as getaway and overall movement is less reliable. And in this game I'm rarely 1 on 1. I think in DMC I only use it to pull off specials.

You just have to press the direction on the stick, and you're character will roll, block, evade or attack there. Whatever you input with it. What this game might be lacking, is the WB games/spidey glue. But that would be ridiculous in a grounded game like this. Honestly I have no issues with the lack of lock on. I only have issues with fighting inside buildings. But most of the times you can take the battle outside.

 

[Valonquar]

This is the best, and nicest looking Assassin's Creed yet. Well written, and interesting supporting characters. Zero current-day sections.

Midway through act 2 and the collectables/mission repeats are getting a bit too repetitive. As bad ass as the standoffs are, it's just quicker to horse jump in and slaughter everyone.

While I know the flute helps, there are far too many thunderstorms.

Spoiler

I was terrified when Yuriko brought me to the hot springs. I am more terrified knowing that rule 34 art is most likely already out there.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Also, whats Sucker Punch' secret behind the FAST TRAVEL?

I timed it.

5 seconds. Hardly more than that.

How?

 

[Steve.1981]

I'm starting to notice quite a lot of problems with this game, hidden beneath that gorgeous art design & wonderful Samurai aesthetic.

Mission design quickly becomes very hit & miss after the first few hours, I think. I'm really not enjoying forced stealth tailing missions, having to babysit non-player characters & the insta-fail scenarios.

It's also just another Ubisoft style open world underneath those stylistic design changes, like the wind & stuff. I'm still clearing out camps, collecting or destroying X number of things & fighting the "leader" at the end. I'm not following markers on a compass or mini-map to find a hidden side thing, I'm following a fox or bird instead. I'm following the wind to the next quest point, except for the times when the wind goes away & an on-screen quest marker pops up.

I'm not going to go into all the janky little animations, because it's not that important to me. It is janky as hell though, if you pay attention.

The game makes a truly great first impression. It's never anything less than stunning to stop & look at. When I get to just be a Samurai, I still love it.

Main-lining the story stuff is definitely the way to go, for me.

 

[Nankatsu]

This is the best, and nicest looking Assassin's Creed yet. Well written, and interesting supporting characters. Zero current-day sections.

Midway through act 2 and the collectables/mission repeats are getting a bit too repetitive. As bad ass as the standoffs are, it's just quicker to horse jump in and slaughter everyone.

While I know the flute helps, there are far too many thunderstorms.

Spoiler

I was terrified when Yuriko brought me to the hot springs. I am more terrified knowing that rule 34 art is most likely already out there.

Watch out with what you say, I was almost eaten alive for saying in the OT title that this is the japanese Assassin's Creed we always wanted.

 

[Valonquar]

To be fair it's a WAAAAAAY better implementation of open world than Ubi ever hopes to pull off. The missions themselves are repititous, but nothing feels too cookie cutter. . . at least until you start liberating farms ala FarCry. I've already had 8 different NPCs tell me being rescued was their best day ever in about 3 hours of playtime.

 

[HotPocket69]

Finally made it to the second part of the island and I’m OP as fuck. Only need one more upgrade for the sword and longbow.

 

[MrJTeera]

Love these RDR2 style transition everytime you completed a mission. A good break from all the carnage.

 

[Rikkori]

If you squint really hard you can almost make-out "PC build" in the E3 footage.

 

[Knitted Knight]

PS5 build you mean?

Also, whats Sucker Punch' secret behind the FAST TRAVEL?

I timed it.

5 seconds. Hardly more than that.

How?

PS5-Ready Engine.

They should trademark that.

 

[Steve.1981]

To be fair it's a WAAAAAAY better implementation of open world than Ubi ever hopes to pull off. The missions themselves are repititous, but nothing feels too cookie cutter. . . at least until you start liberating farms ala FarCry. I've already had 8 different NPCs tell me being rescued was their best day ever in about 3 hours of playtime.

When compared with the new Assassin's Creed titles (for example), the lack of any level-gating in GoT makes a huge difference, I think.

Repetition becomes a lot less tiresome when you know that side stuff is completely optional.

 

[SinDelta]

I love this game. It truly is an experience. Just looking at the sunsets, or exploring some corner of the world and stumbling across a hotspring.

As much as I enjoyed Breath of the Wild, I think Ghosts actually does several things better.

Namely upgrading gear and skills, combat, and sidequests.

There is little of the bloat from BotW shrines/seeds or every other thing from Assassins Creed (Even Origins, which is still Amazing btw and is one of my favorite games this gen.)

Special mention for using rumors to find quests, it just fits.

The Quests for legendary gear are just sublime.

A climax amidst a thunderstorm.
Exploring a Crown of Violet.

Can't wait to see what the others hold.

Also, when you see in the movie/anime/game the protagonist has a special super move they only use on worthy opponents?

It really is something seeing Jin use it multiple times in a tiny room to save innocents moments away from being slaughtered by mongol troops.

 

[Vade]

I think one of my only bigger complaints is getting locked into duels without resolve or very low resolve is a real pain. I want to have heals or options to learn the fight and not have to perfect sections just to get to a new section to learn. Just popped into Act 2 ,but I think I will clean up some more Act 1 areas/quests so I can get my sword upgraded.. Sword upgrades seem most useful.

 

[nowhat]

When compared with the new Assassin's Creed titles (for example), the lack of any level-gating in GoT makes a huge difference, I think.

Yes, this. I bought Odyssey off a sale - haven't finished it and probably never will. It starts out alright, but when you hit a spot you have to grind the side content (which is for the most part so forgettable) to progress the main story I just completely lost interest. And no, I sure as hell will not pay Ubisoft to get through the game faster.

 

[Inuteu]

The wind mechanic was great at first, and is still great because it's very minimal and not an intrusive UI waypoint you're following, but that's still what it kind of is. at this point, i am just selecting something on my in-game map and the wind takes me to it. it's better than a traditional waypoint but it's still far from what i truly want in fully immersive and organic exploration. a game designed fully around that. this is not that, but rather a welcomed improvement in what exists and just making it more integrated into the world, but it's still kind of the same thing.

I loved

minimal fading HUD too

waypoints in games usually are so imersion breaking

some developers work hard do create realistic graphics, believable worlds, just to put a fucing giant yellow arrow in the middle of the screen or something

 

[DavidGzz]

It does the roll when you are pushing the left stick at any direction, for just dodging you need to be standing still.

What? Not for me. In fact I strafe around enemies in a duel when I know they are going to do an unblockable and press O while strafing to do a sidestep, it only rolls when I double tap O.

 

[SkylineRKR]

When compared with the new Assassin's Creed titles (for example), the lack of any level-gating in GoT makes a huge difference, I think.

Repetition becomes a lot less tiresome when you know that side stuff is completely optional.

They took this from Horizon and it works.

You can be ridiculously OP if you want, but you're never too weak if you ignore it. I think Witcher 3 did the same, as well.

 

[vpance]

Not sure but I think there’s some level scaling in this. I saw a streamer do an early mission after upgrading a bunch of skill trees and armor and they were fighting heavies that I didn’t when I played it.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Ok put maybe 6 hours into it; although almost an hour of that is the too long intro section and I did explore a bit so these are really early:

HUGE CAVEAT:
- I am not a "story driven game" lover. I have fun with them from time to time but the story aspects tend to bore me.

Pluses:
+ The combat works for me so far and the camera really doesn't bug me too much like I thought it would. It's fun, feels good to win, and feels fun to lose (feels challenging, need to try something different). I am a bit worried about becoming OP so I might start over on hard
+ It's beautiful obviously; what they put on screen is gorgeous.
+ PROGRESSION! The #1 thing in an open world game like this.. give me reasons to do shit, upgrade, etc. Already having fun with that.
+ The Mongols are cool; putting this here because I have story as a negative so far

Neutral but want to comment on:
+- So far everything is fairly "samey" looking. Still early though, but it doesn't shock me how quickly the game loads for instance.
+- The wind mechanic is OK but I'm already a little tired of it. I don't quite understand everyone's aversion to quest markers. As long as a world has complicated geography that forces you not to go in a straight line it still makes exploration fun.

Negatives:
- That intro is a slog to me; just not how I like starting an open world game. Maybe if it was a real tutorial it would have made more sense but you don't REALLY get a tutorial until you are pretty far into it.
- The story is really boring in general to me. I don't think it gets more cliche than this; which honestly is fine, but I don't need the dialog to be nearly as long when the entirety of it boils down to "honor, or... stealth."
- "Follow me" - this has to be my least favorite thing to do in a game/open world and so far almost every mission has you do this.

Fun game so far, definitely will get my $60 worth.. but I might end up skipping cutscenes on this one. I enjoy the atmosphere, but the story itself is Zzzzz to me outside of the scenes with the Mongol leader. Can you skip cutscenes? Haven't tried, but zoned out halfway through a few of them.

 

[Bragr]

I'm still pretty early but not to big of the no "lock on" I usually rush the archer first but jin keeps starring at shield guys.
The roll and dodge can be tricky at times, it does one instead of the other.

Seems a lot of people have issues with the roll. Personally, I can't recall once where it was a problem. I assume that some people will press the button so quickly that they don't even notice they pressed twice or something, cause you have half the people in the thread having problems with it and half having no issue at all.

 

[Bragr]

What? Not for me. In fact I strafe around enemies in a duel when I know they are going to do an unblockable and press O while strafing to do a sidestep, it only rolls when I double tap O.

Yes, you have to double press to roll. Moving in a direction only dodges you in a direction, it does not roll.

 

[Bragr]

Also, whats Sucker Punch' secret behind the FAST TRAVEL?

I timed it.

5 seconds. Hardly more than that.

How?

Not only that but in and out of the photo mode and the menus are also lighting quick. Every other open-world game is so sluggish with this stuff.

Maybe it's because they made peasant water that looks like a 240p sludge so they can boost everything else in the game.

 

[GymWolf]

Can someone tell me how to use the 3d audio with the platinum headset?? Do i have to change something both in the headphones and the audio options ingame?