Support NeoGAF

[JohnnyFootball]

Not exactly true. With ghost 1 u started with a huge enemy and plot fight against the mighty mongols .here for a sequal you could only go up like the second invasion of mongols instead they go for 6 random jap guys. Truly a disappointment and not pushing anything forward . It's not indegioionus criticism because this feels paired back from the game before it even.

You sound like a person who just needs to leave gaming all togethe, cuz I seriously don't think you will find happiness.

You know what I am sick of?
I am sick of these buggy ass poorly optimized games coming out that try to cram too many things in them. I have been wanting developers to take a break with always trying to push the graphical envelope and focus on tweaking performance. Hopefully that happened here.

 

[Von Hugh]

Lol I asked grok to give me a consensus of the excitement levels of this game online ..... Neogaf was one the sources:

i also asked ChatGPT

Excited 54%
Curious / Interested 12%
Mixed / nostalgic 14%
Not excited 14%
Indifferent 6%

Excited: 65%
Not Excited: 22.5%
Indifferent: 12.5%
....

i have seen on Twitter people say that it looks like "more of the same"as the primary criticism... I think the biggest issue is that it took too long.

lol:

well, it seems indeed that this is the
"official" narrative this game has against it.

Sony, Sony, Sony..... your template is getting old and stale

Please. Stop with the AI slop.

No one gives a crap about your prompts and ChatGPT answers.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I have nothing against safe sequels. In fact, its the opposite. If its a newly established world/IP/series, I more than welcome it. Give people more of the same and of what they enjoyed. Like, I honestly would've preferred if ND hadn't strayed away from the original build-up in TLOU like they did in TLOU2 for instance and played it safe. That was a risky idea that possibly cost them future installments.

Joel's "exit" might've worked better in a third game after people had at least one more adventure with him. But, anyway, I'll just leave it here. I'm over TLOU2 and the way it panned out at this point.

TLOU2 was a huge story misfire IMO and more or less proved to me that Drueckmann has great ideas, but he absolutely needs checks and balances. His best work came when he had Bruce Straley to keep his worst ideas in check. I always respect what he was trying to do in TLOU2, he wanted to show that actions had consequences and that there was two sides to everything. He wanted to make you sympathize with everyone. Unfortunately, what he ended up accomplishing was making you hate everyone. At the end of that game I was literally rooting for Abby and Elle to just kill eachother. They constantly made bad decisions and just became unlikeable. Not to mention when the two battle, I was legit trying to lose.

Sony higher ups would be VERY wise to monitor Intergalactic's development as Drueckmann clearly thinks he's always right. He fully embraces the controversy of his GI Jane and that is an immediate red flag.

 

[SlimySnake]

Going from Infamous 1 to Infamous 2 and then again with Infamous 3, Sucker Punch made sure to add different powers to make sure the game didnt feel samey. You have a new protagonist who has 200 years of samurai combat enhancements to learn from, and she plays virtually identical to Jin. The animation work especially is very weak.

Back in the day, standards were higher and people expected more from changes from sequels and devs didnt want to make their games feel like DLC. Now they are ok with copy pasting everything. Hence the familiar/similar complaints that are prevalent this gen with sony games like HFW, Ragnorak, Spiderman 2, DS2 and now GoY.

 

[Hypereides]

TLOU2 was a huge story misfire IMO and more or less proved to me that Drueckmann has great ideas, but he absolutely needs checks and balances. His best work came when he had Bruce Straley to keep his worst ideas in check. I always respect what he was trying to do in TLOU2, he wanted to show that actions had consequences and that there was two sides to everything. He wanted to make you sympathize with everyone. Unfortunately, what he ended up accomplishing was making you hate everyone. At the end of that game I was literally rooting for Abby and Elle to just kill eachother. They constantly made bad decisions and just became unlikeable. Not to mention when the two battle, I was legit trying to lose.

Sony higher ups would be VERY wise to monitor Intergalactic's development as Drueckmann clearly thinks he's always right. He fully embraces the controversy of his GI Jane and that is an immediate red flag.

If some insiders are to be believed, they already are. Portfolio supervision has pivoted back to Japan, supposedly since the year prior.

 

[Loboxxx]

The game looks amazing, bigger and better than the first one, which was already fantastic. I can't wait to explore this world on horseback!

It's curious how players react to sequels. Unless it's a JRPG, a Souls game, or something from Nintendo, they seem to expect a completely different game. In fact, it feels like they need to see a radical graphical leap, like from Uncharted 1 to 2 or Infamous 1 to 2, for them to accept a sequel.

Modern life stuff.

 

[Bernardougf]

I think it's totally valid to air criticism - I do think some of the criticism is over the top in this case - it is obviously better looking that GoT and it's running at 60fps - to me that's a generational leap. Also the team took 4-5 years to make something that has multiple bigger scope gameplay systems than the original. We've seen little of the narrative (for obvious reasons) - I think that the team has been pretty efficient with the time - compared to other studios which have produced nothing in 5 years.

nothing of what I saw justify 5 years to my eyes, from animation to assets is basically the same game but now a little bigger and a little more complex...you may disagree and thats fine ... and comparing to other studios from sony that are doing even worse is not an achievement.

Ill say again.. if this exact same game comes out three years after GOT.. almost nobody was going to be surprised and it might even get a better global reception.

But anyway 2020 was still a rebound year for covid .. so I can eliminate this year and count this game as a 4 year dev cicle.. its not excellent but is not horrible either.

 

[March Climber]

Going from Infamous 1 to Infamous 2 and then again with Infamous 3, Sucker Punch made sure to add different powers to make sure the game didnt feel samey. You have a new protagonist who has 200 years of samurai combat enhancements to learn from, and she plays virtually identical to Jin. The animation work especially is very weak.

I think having her fight even more unorthodox than she already does might have made people look at her differently.

Maybe a mix of wild + controlled movements, like Mugen from Champloo:

Mixing that with the fact that she just picks up any random weapon to use it would make for an interesting combat style.

 

[Spitfire098]

Please. Stop with the AI slop.

No one gives a crap about your prompts and ChatGPT answers.

Bro thought he was cooking with copying and pasting chatgpt nonsense

 

[Punished Miku]

I think having her fight even more unorthodox than she already does might have made people look at her differently.

Maybe a mix of wild + controlled movements, like Mugen from Champloo:

Mixing that with the fact that she just picks up any random weapon to use it would make for an interesting combat style.

That would have been a huge improvement, especially if she's from the edge of Japan.

The whole first game was supposed to be about the invention of ninja tactics out of necessity, and blending that with samurai training. They never delivered on that at all. It was basically just blink and he's a master of stealth.

What is this one even about? No idea. Train for 16 years in the same stuff and go get revenge I guess.

 

[SlimySnake]

But anyway 2020 was still a rebound year for covid .. so I can eliminate this year and count this game as a 4 year dev cicle.. its not excellent but is not horrible either.

I really dislike people using covid as an excuse. my entire office was shutdown permanently and we all went to work from home, and our company grudgingly had to admit that we were MORE productive. We are also a software engineering firm. Not completely 1:1 as video games which are more artist driven and thus require more hands on than people coding but there were many studios who were able to ship games after covid from 2020 to 2023 that were directly impacted by work from home mandates and they still pushed next gen visuals.

Avatar, Outlaws, Callisto, HFW, Ratchet, Demon Souls, all ended their final years impacted by covid, and still managed to look next gen.

This is just sheer incompetence.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I am not as blown away by this as I was when Ghost of Tsushima was announced but I will say this:

Ghost of Tsushima was the game that got me to pay a lot more attention to art direction over graphical fidelity. I remember playing both GoT and TLOU Part 2 at the same time and GoT's visuals had a bigger impact on me despite being a bit behind graphically.

Ghost of Yotei may not be a graphical fidelity powerhouse but it has some of the best Vistas I have ever seen in gaming with incredible big draw distances. It also likes to exaggerate things like wind, particles, and lighting to create a feel. It creates such a lively atmosphere. How something feels has a lot more impact than it just looking photorealistic. Hyperrealistic games break their illusion as soon as there is any movement.

I do wonder how this will stack up with Onimusha though. That game seems to be doing more with using the environment to your advantage and makes more use of physics. I also prefer linear gameplay. I think Ghost of Yotei will be a fun and polished experience though.

 

[ElFenomeno]

I think having her fight even more unorthodox than she already does might have made people look at her differently.

Maybe a mix of wild + controlled movements, like Mugen from Champloo:

Mixing that with the fact that she just picks up any random weapon to use it would make for an interesting combat style.

This x 100. Plus some environment interactivity like in the new Onimusha would have been awesome. Thats something else.
There was no cool hook here. Really phoned in. Some new weapons/skills simply doesn't cut it.

 

[nial]

wow, that's a very stupid thing say. AI is jut like more powerful and context sensitive search engine.

Lol, I come across some AI hallucination every single day. The other day S0ULZB0URNE was arguing over Helldivers not being a Sony IP due to some AI fuckery. AI is fucking garbage.

imagined uh? now with some research I have a clear and more informed idea. shocking

Research...? Eating up AIslop without any sort of questioning is not researching, lol.

(once a game is green lit)... that's on the diagram

So?

you mean my previous argument based on imagination?

with my first statement being correct (different groups) and after researching, i can flesh out my original argument:

groups like the user research one, also the share technology, tools, techniques, workflows that happens among sony's studios, things like the yellow paint and talkative NPCs to guide the player is a sign of homegenization; the "Ubisofication" of sony's AAA single player template.

DEI mandates and HR have foster a "diverse" a one sided ideology especially in western studios; a hive mind. this super checks out.

The idea of these groups fostering influence across all of Sony would, at least, make sense if you weren't making exceptions for some studios. What exactly makes you think that Polyphony Digital wasn't subject to this?

that's one the diagram too. Executives can push the corporate values on project. we have had very obvious examples on Hollywood

yeah and gaming has been victim of this scheme too:

Latoya Raveneau, an executive producer and director at Disney Television Animation:

I was just, wherever I could, just adding queerness... No one would stop me, and no one was trying to stop me. I had this sense of, like, 'I'm going to insert my gay agenda.'"

Only way that you can prove it is if every project was exactly like that, and it's not even close. You can point out the culture within the studios themselves, but suggesting that it's an initiative at large does sound ridiculous. Again, why was Stellar Blade (the anti-DEI game, amirite?) allowed to exist if that was the case?

 

[Topher]

Going from Infamous 1 to Infamous 2 and then again with Infamous 3, Sucker Punch made sure to add different powers to make sure the game didnt feel samey. You have a new protagonist who has 200 years of samurai combat enhancements to learn from, and she plays virtually identical to Jin. The animation work especially is very weak.

Back in the day, standards were higher and people expected more from changes from sequels and devs didnt want to make their games feel like DLC. Now they are ok with copy pasting everything. Hence the familiar/similar complaints that are prevalent this gen with sony games like HFW, Ragnorak, Spiderman 2, DS2 and now GoY.

I think there are limitations on what they can do simply by choosing to do another Ghost game. Infamous, being about super powers, allows for a lot more freedom. I get what you are saying about the animations though. Definitely seem recycled.

 

[Nocty]

watched it fully and have to say I am quite dissappointed. It appears to have the same generic open world from the first game and I am completely burnt out on those.

 

[FoxMcChief]

He's got 650k subs on youtube so yeah, he isn't hurting. He makes fun of everyone in the industry. Here's a good one....

"……plus your mom smokes crack."

What other argument is there to be had?

 

[Bernardougf]

I really dislike people using covid as an excuse. my entire office was shutdown permanently and we all went to work from home, and our company grudgingly had to admit that we were MORE productive. We are also a software engineering firm. Not completely 1:1 as video games which are more artist driven and thus require more hands on than people coding but there were many studios who were able to ship games after covid from 2020 to 2023 that were directly impacted by work from home mandates and they still pushed next gen visuals.

Avatar, Outlaws, Callisto, HFW, Ratchet, Demon Souls, all ended their final years impacted by covid, and still managed to look next gen.

This is just sheer incompetence.

I whole heartily agree with you... thats me TRYING to see the glass half full

 

[Fake]

"……plus your mom smokes crack."

What other argument is there to be had?

 

[Elios83]

I don't see anything wrong in making improved iterative sequels when you're just at the second game in the IP.
There is no reason to completely reboot something that was greatly appreciated and just needs to be refined.
The gaming industry has always been about sequels that improve a winning formula.
Yakuza games are all the same, Persona games are all the same, the From Software games are all the same, the Resident Evil and Tomb Raider games were all the same, the Assassin's Creed games are all the same, let's not even talk about annualized franchises like COD, the games Nintendo has been making for 20+ years and so on.
A sequel can't feel fresh like a new IP or something completely rebooted that just keeps the name, that is obvious.

Ghost of Yotei looks fantastic and what it was realistic to expect.

 

[viveks86]

Going from Infamous 1 to Infamous 2 and then again with Infamous 3, Sucker Punch made sure to add different powers to make sure the game didnt feel samey. You have a new protagonist who has 200 years of samurai combat enhancements to learn from, and she plays virtually identical to Jin. The animation work especially is very weak.

Just curious, what are the 200 years of "samurai combat enhancements" that are missing? Did they start using the sword differently or something? Did they backflip before swinging? Armor designs changed over the eras. And that's about it. Most games take tons of liberty with that stuff anyway. Enemy animations are massively improved, they move and react so much more believably to hits, and death animations are a giant leap above the original. GoT death animations on random enemies were almost comically stiff and repetitive. All animations for the new weapons are, by their very nature, entirely new as well.

I think there are other criticisms (like the hot springs and some lack luster graphics) that are completely valid, but expecting a historical swordfighting game to be dramatically different between sequels that are 5 years apart (4 if you count Iki) built on the same engine by the same team seems like the weakest critique.

But yeah, it certainly has a same-y feel to it and if one is feeling burnout (thanks to the genre getting more crowded with games like AC shadows and Rise of Ronin coming out), then I won't fault them for it. But I can't think of how much more the fighting mechanics should change. That's the least of the game's shortcomings. At the core of it all, you are either done with this type of Japanese open world swordfighting game... or not. The rest seems like over-intellectualization to me. Even if they changed every single animation, the underlying complaint won't go away. People will just latch on to something else to express their burnout.

I think what the game really needs is variety. Don't make me do the same damn thing over an over. And make the revenge story unique and nuanced in some way. If they nail those 2 aspects, the game will review and sell well.

I think having her fight even more unorthodox than she already does might have made people look at her differently.

Maybe a mix of wild + controlled movements, like Mugen from Champloo:

Mixing that with the fact that she just picks up any random weapon to use it would make for an interesting combat style.

This sounds more like something they could have actually done. But like I said, changing up animations ain't going to make people overcome burnout. That would literally become the new criticism - "Booo! Old wine in new animation bottle". Did anyone care when Mile Morales swung and fought differently than Peter Parker? Only the ones who wanted to play and were not burnt out cared. If the rest are sick of Spidey, then they are just sick of Spidey!