Support NeoGAF

[The Wizard]

Glad people are digging into Patrick's treatment of 2048. He touched on some interesting concepts in his article but has mostly mishandled the story due to personal involvement. It has been surprisingly unprofessional considering his usual standards.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

You should tweet it up with patrick to resolve any questions but man good to see jeff so upbeat

 

[Aaron]

Threes should have been free2play. The way IOS is now, you can only charge for content, not clever mechanics. If something is easy to imitate, expect it to happen almost immediately, while a game like Monument Valley is all content based, making it too much effort to rip off. Since people can't get that free, they'll pay for that sort of game.

 

[Fox318]

I really wonder how far Patrick would have actually pushed the whole thing if the guy that made Threes was not sitting next to him at work...

Wasn't that an original concern which readers voiced to Jeff before? That them getting closer to game devs that their site will become less about games and more about the people they like personally. I seem to recall hearing Jeff in a panel or podcast talking about how that was a concern about the direction of the site.

I don't think anyone would be shocked if the site had defended a game more from someone they have a relationship with or promoted it more. I remember the Dropchord quick look really feeling like they were doing double fine a favor with their video.

Lets say the Vita port of Borderlands 2 is a mess and in reviews people point out that the game appears to have been poorly developed, could you see an article where Patrick or somebody else writes something defending Iron Galaxy instead of talking about the quality of said game?

What about if Patrick had promoted threes or Unprofessional Fridays had featured an hour dedicated to it? Wouldn't that feel like a conflict of interest considering Patrick is practically working with the person who made it?

 

[FStop7]

Except that the lady approached him first and freaked out when he told her about Threes. Come on man.

Did you actually listen to what he said? The woman playing 2048 saw him playing Threes and SHE was the one that instigated the conversation about it. Don't make it sound like he went out of his way to tell this woman she was doing something wrong, he didn't. She started the conversation and he, according to him, politely engaged with her and said that Threes actually came out first.

So you're saying the part where he told her it was a "ripoff" and he literally moved to a different part of the bus because of her reaction didn't happen? That is some grade A creeper bullshit.

 

[Rhaknar]

Did you actually listen to what he said? The woman playing 2048 saw him playing Threes and SHE was the one that instigated the conversation about it. Don't make it sound like he went out of his way to tell this woman she was doing something wrong, he didn't. She started the conversation and he, according to him, politely engaged with her and said that Threes actually came out first.

thank you for saving me the trouble of writting this. this thread is getting so ridiculous

So you're saying the part where he told her it was a "ripoff" and he literally moved to a different part of the bus because of her reaction didn't happen? That is some grade A creeper bullshit.

he moved because of the look she gave him when he said it was a rippof because he didnt want to get into shit with some random woman on the bus. I would move too, how is that creeper shit? he didnt move next to her lol

 

[Liamc723]

So you're saying the part where he told her it was a "ripoff" and he literally moved to a different part of the bus because of her reaction didn't happen? That is some grade A creeper bullshit.

How on earth is that creepy? The fact that it is a ripoff is true, and in him moving, he defused the situation.

 

[Larsa]

So you're saying the part where he told her it was a "ripoff" and he literally moved to a different part of the bus because of her reaction didn't happen? That is some grade A creeper bullshit.

No, that's called a conversation.

 

[kvothe]

Wasn't that an original concern which readers voiced to Jeff before? That them getting closer to game devs that their site will become less about games and more about the people they like personally. I seem to recall hearing Jeff in a panel or podcast talking about how that was a concern about the direction of the site.

I don't think anyone would be shocked if the site had defended a game more from someone they have a relationship with or promoted it more. I remember the Dropchord quick look really feeling like they were doing double fine a favor with their video.

Lets say the Vita port of Borderlands 2 is a mess and in reviews people point out that the game appears to have been poorly developed, could you see an article where Patrick or somebody else writes something defending Iron Galaxy instead of talking about the quality of said game?

What about if Patrick had promoted threes or Unprofessional Fridays had featured an hour dedicated to it? Wouldn't that feel like a conflict of interest considering Patrick is practically working with the person who made it?

You're getting ridiculous. Dedicating an hour to Threes? And have you, by chance, heard of Wreckateer? The game made by Dave Lang that GB always makes fun of?

 

[Brakke]

Lets say the Vita port of Borderlands 2 is a mess and in reviews people point out that the game appears to have been poorly developed, could you see an article where Patrick or somebody else writes something defending Iron Galaxy instead of talking about the quality of said game?

What about Giant Bomb makes you think they would write any kind of story either way about the quality of a port of an old game none of them super cared for? Seems like something they just wouldn't cover either way.

What about if Patrick had promoted threes or Unprofessional Fridays had featured an hour dedicated to it? Wouldn't that feel like a conflict of interest considering Patrick is practically working with the person who made it?

That's not really accurate at all. They sometimes work in the same office sometimes. Which is clearly more than zero relationship, but certainly less than "working with" someone. Really need some precision if we're going to talk conflicts of interest.

 

[chubigans]

Kinda crappy Patrick. Given your aversion to people getting harassed on twitter (Flappybird, phil fish, gamestop journo, zoe quin, leigh alexander, and yourself) you do know the consequences for writing:

"If you read my Threes cloning story yesterday, the developer of the 2048 iOS/Android app who refused to talk to me is:

Spoiler

@NotGoingToAddFuelToTheFirePatrick

"

Seriously dude.

I don't understand why he's attacking that guy in the first place. The only way he linked that guy to the app was through him talking about it on Twitter, and being the co-founder of the company that published it on Google Play.

But the app has 10-50k downloads in the store. Compare that to this exact copy of the game, which has 1-5 million downloads. Why is Morcos getting singled out here?

But then Patrick mentions twice in the article that the guy wouldn't get back to him via email, and then tweets again a few days later on how Antoine "refused" to talk to him and here's his twitter handle, which was already in the article. Not to mention calling his previous games shameless and how the beautiful gift of open source games was "giftwrapped" for "someone like Morcos."

I mean holy crap man.

 

[Fox318]

That's a huge assumption. I give it a shot time and time again and these games are not for me. I can get appreciate FIFA or PES but I played a lot of their iterations. I enjoy what I played of last years The Show somewhat but I never got a good grasp of the game to really love it. I might try again with the PS4 game this year but if it doesn't click again that's probably it for baseball games as well at this point.

Fair point. I wonder if controller complexity or game complexity has lead to many to not follow sports games as much.

Also I wonder if we are grouping in competitive games and sports games together unfairly. A game like Sportsfriends may have more in common with couch competitive games or party games rather than sports games.

 

[darkressurection]

I don't understand why he's attacking that guy in the first place. The only way he linked that guy to the app was through him talking about it on Twitter, and being the co-founder of the company that published it on Google Play.

But the app has 10-50k downloads in the store. Compare that to this exact copy of the game, which has 1-5 million downloads. Why is Morcos getting singled out here?

But then Patrick mentions twice in the article that the guy wouldn't get back to him via email, and then tweets again a few days later on how Antoine "refused" to talk to him and here's his twitter handle, which was already in the article. Not to mention calling his previous games shameless and how the beautiful gift of open source games was "giftwrapped" for "someone like Morcos."

I mean holy crap man.

I mentioned this back when Patrick's Metal Gear stuff was happening last week, but he just seems to contradict himself so much lately in terms of how he thinks people should treat each other on social media and the internet in general. Hopefully he takes a step back and looks at how he has handled himself lately.

 

[GazzaScotland]

He's just angry he wasted a dollar to try message him on Facebook.

 

[Patryn]

I understand that Patrick wants to be an activist journalist. He wants to make a difference and bring to light injustices that he sees in the gaming community.

I don't necessarily see a problem with that. The problem is that I think he's veering too far into the activist part of the equation, at the expense of the journalist part. I hope he steps back and realizes that he can still write the articles illustrating the problems with gaming without becoming part of the story himself.

 

[FStop7]

How on earth is that creepy? The fact that it is a ripoff is true, and in him moving, he defused the situation.

"The situation" - there shouldn't be a "situation" to start with when you're talking to a complete stranger about a topic as benign as a smartphone game.

No, that's called a conversation.

People don't react like that to "conversations."

I would suggest those who haven't listened to it go hear it for themselves and decide.

 

[Liamc723]

"The situation" - there shouldn't be a "situation" to start with when you're talking to a complete stranger about a topic as benign as a smartphone game.


I would suggest those who haven't listened to it go hear it for themselves and decide.

I have listened to it and I think the woman is in the wrong with her reaction, Alex was in the right to move to save anything else being said. Alex stated a fact, and I can't believe you really think he's in the wrong, he didn't do anything wrong.

 

[chubigans]

I mentioned this back when Patrick's Metal Gear stuff was happening last week, but he just seems to contradict himself so much lately in terms of how he thinks people should treat each other on social media and the internet in general. Hopefully he takes a step back and looks at how he has handled himself lately.

Huh I have to look back at that, I don't remember what happened.

But I think Patrick's tweet at deleting the comment is just as bad too:

Some seem to think this is a form of doxing, which I disagree. He's a public figure. But I'll delete the tweet, and note the response.

-How is it not doxing? What purpose did that tweet serve when you had already put his twitter info in the original article?
-He's a public figure? What does that even mean? That because he's publicly listed on Twitter and Facebook that it's ok to post his info in that manner?
-"I'll note the response." That is such a politician statement, to dismiss the feedback without addressing it or acknowledging it's tone. Ugh.

Anyways, yeah, dunno what's been going on with Patrick but that was poor form in both the article and tweets. He has got to keep his personal investment in some of these stories in control.

 

[Xater]

Fair point. I wonder if controller complexity or game complexity has lead to many to not follow sports games as much.

Also I wonder if we are grouping in competitive games and sports games together unfairly. A game like Sportsfriends may have more in common with couch competitive games or party games rather than sports games.

It's combination of control complexity and control responsiveness. Technically you can make for example FIFA a two button game and fiddle with some sliders to make it less realistic. The problem is after that it still doesn't feel as responsive as these older games did, because it was built all around being a simulation. So you get lots of animations when players want to do quick turns etc.

 

[justjim89]

*points at Wrestlemania sign*

 

[Kerned]

I understand that Patrick wants to be an activist journalist. He wants to make a difference and bring to light injustices that he sees in the gaming community.

I don't necessarily see a problem with that. The problem is that I think he's veering too far into the activist part of the equation, at the expense of the journalist part. I hope he steps back and realizes that he can still write the articles illustrating the problems with gaming without becoming part of the story himself.

I more or less agree with Patrick's viewpoints on most issues, but I am increasingly finding myself really turned off by the way he expresses those viewpoints. There is something about his approach that just rubs me the wrong way.

edit:

-"I'll note the response." That is such a politician statement, to dismiss the feedback without addressing it or acknowledging it's tone. Ugh.

Ah yes, that's exactly what I am talking about. This is the equivalent of saying "sorry that you were offended." There is a certain smugness and arrogance there that I just don't like.

 

[FStop7]

*points at Wrestlemania sign*

Now this is something we can all agree on.

 

[derFeef]

Ready to enter the Lang Zone.

 

[CambriaRising]

I more or less agree with Patrick's viewpoints on most issues, but I am increasingly finding myself really turned off by the way he expresses those viewpoints. There is something about his approach that just rubs me the wrong way.

I don't feel like it was always like this, some of his mannerisms and the way he discusses things in the last few months have been pretty off-putting. Patrick is probably one of my favorite people in the gaming press, but I don't know if it will stay that way in the future. Maybe hes been having a bad few months, I don't know.

 

[Fox318]

You're getting ridiculous. Dedicating an hour to Threes? And have you, by chance, heard of Wreckateer? The game made by Dave Lang that GB always makes fun of?

They make fun of the game now but they didn't really have an in depth review or a non EX quick look to discuss the game. Don't forget Jeff's Gaming Minute where he praised the game. All other Kinect games they covered they obliterated because of the shit controls and stuff.

What about Giant Bomb makes you think they would write any kind of story either way about the quality of a port of an old game none of them super cared for? Seems like something they just wouldn't cover either way.

That was just an example I came up with but wouldn't you say that game would be qualified as a big release? And its not as if Jeff hated Borderlands 2 he just enjoyed the first one more or he only wanted that experience once. Not to mention the game has had a rocky development and I'm sure it would lead to an interesting discussion the the Vita.

That's not really accurate at all. They sometimes work in the same office sometimes. Which is clearly more than zero relationship, but certainly less than "working with" someone. Really need some precision if we're going to talk conflicts of interest.

It is kinda weird though that Patrick has an office with a company like that. If Patrick had not mentioned his relationship with Wohlwend wouldn't people have an issue with that?

 

[darkressurection]

Huh I have to look back at that, I don't remember what happened.

But I think Patrick's tweet at deleting the comment is just as bad too:



-How is it not doxing? What purpose did that tweet serve when you had already put his twitter info in the original article?
-He's a public figure? What does that even mean? That because he's publicly listed on Twitter and Facebook that it's ok to post his info in that manner?
-"I'll note the response." That is such a politician statement, to dismiss the feedback without addressing it or acknowledging it's tone. Ugh.

Anyways, yeah, dunno what's been going on with Patrick but that was poor form in both the article and tweets. He has got to keep his personal investment in some of these stories in control.

My main issue with it was that after people began to be assholes to him (as people on the internet usually are) instead of going out of his way to engage with people that disagreed with him but were willing to have a discussion he instead tweets: "No comment brings more people out of the woodwork than daring to not like something about a Metal Gear game." and "Bummer part is there's plenty to like. But, hoo boy, try to knock it down a peg, as though all art has faults, and watch it, mister."

He then preceded to retweet someone who was being an asshole to him, which in my opinion is basically the Twitter version of "release the hounds" because no doubt plenty of people who support Patrick went to that guy's twitter and have him shit, then the cycle begins anew.

Edit: added links to his Twitter posts.

 

[SlowRevolution]

Huh I have to look back at that, I don't remember what happened.

But I think Patrick's tweet at deleting the comment is just as bad too:

That's not what apologizing for distributing personal information looks like, Patrick.

 

[Kerned]

I don't feel like it was always like this, some of his mannerisms and the way he discusses things in the last few months have been pretty off-putting. Patrick is probably one of my favorite people in the gaming press, but I don't know if it will stay that way in the future. Maybe hes been having a bad few months, I don't know.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds his recent attitude "off-putting."

That's not what apologizing for distributing personal information looks like, Patrick.

Well played.

 

[Rhaknar]

giancarlo on 2 back to back quicklooks... signs of something?

Spoiler

It means nothing, I know I know, let me dream

 

[Patryn]

giancarlo on 2 back to back quicklooks... signs of something?

Spoiler

It means nothing, I know I know, let me dream

It's a sign that GB has a very light bench. I don't think it's been a total coincidence that Danny has been on the last few UPFs, as they've desperately needed bodies.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Huh I have to look back at that, I don't remember what happened.

But I think Patrick's tweet at deleting the comment is just as bad too:



-How is it not doxing? What purpose did that tweet serve when you had already put his twitter info in the original article?
-He's a public figure? What does that even mean? That because he's publicly listed on Twitter and Facebook that it's ok to post his info in that manner?
-"I'll note the response." That is such a politician statement, to dismiss the feedback without addressing it or acknowledging it's tone. Ugh.

Anyways, yeah, dunno what's been going on with Patrick but that was poor form in both the article and tweets. He has got to keep his personal investment in some of these stories in control.

Wow, didn't even see the second tweet. That makes it even worse.

This guy is ok to get it but the people who have gotten it in the past, who Patrick has made whole articles about, was completely wrong? Just bizarre...

 

[Jokab]

Wasn't the show starting now? It's not showing on the front page.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Wasn't that an original concern which readers voiced to Jeff before? That them getting closer to game devs that their site will become less about games and more about the people they like personally. I seem to recall hearing Jeff in a panel or podcast talking about how that was a concern about the direction of the site.

I don't think anyone would be shocked if the site had defended a game more from someone they have a relationship with or promoted it more. I remember the Dropchord quick look really feeling like they were doing double fine a favor with their video.

Lets say the Vita port of Borderlands 2 is a mess and in reviews people point out that the game appears to have been poorly developed, could you see an article where Patrick or somebody else writes something defending Iron Galaxy instead of talking about the quality of said game?

What about if Patrick had promoted threes or Unprofessional Fridays had featured an hour dedicated to it? Wouldn't that feel like a conflict of interest considering Patrick is practically working with the person who made it?

Divekick being a top 10 game of the year cemented that for me.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I agree with chubigans on this one.

You write it like this: "X developer was contacted about this piece via, twitter, facebook, e-mail, and phone but was unavailable for comment. " Not refused or declined; unavailable.

Then you present your argument. To speculate in Bombin' is just poor form.

 

[Zaph]

So what's the difference between a 'private' and 'public' figure? If you have to go through domain registration to find someone, isn't that pretty private?

 

[SlowRevolution]

Wasn't the show starting now? It's not showing on the front page.

he tweeted that they're starting late.

 

[eot]

Divekick being a top 10 game of the year cemented that for me.

I generally agree with the concern (though I don't care that much because I don't really go to GB or any other site for buying advice), I think Jeff just really liked Divekick. He also had to fight pretty god damn hard to get it on there.

 

[Brakke]

So what's the difference between a 'private' and 'public' figure? If you have to go through domain registration to find someone, isn't that pretty private?

Domain registration is publicly available, and you can register a domain anonymously if you wish to stay private. He didn't make any effort to request anonymity or indicate that that's what he wanted. That's why sharing his name is not doxing, it's reporting.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Domain registration is publicly available, and you can register a domain anonymously if you wish to stay private. He didn't make any effort to request anonymity or indicate that that's what he wanted. That's why sharing his name is not doxing, it's reporting.

Reporting his name was what he did in his article. Reiterating the point that "he refused to talk" to him after the point had already been made multiple times is going a little past reporting.

Edit: Also many things can be found publicly and legally, that doesn't make it any more public.

 

[mattp]

why people can't accept divekick as being a legitimate good game, i will never understand

 

[Rhaknar]

oops wrong thread

 

[FStop7]

When 60 Minutes does an expose they don't publish the phone numbers of people they failed to contact.

 

[derFeef]

Oh hey Max Tempkin. *leaves*

 

[Fox318]

Domain registration is publicly available, and you can register a domain anonymously if you wish to stay private. He didn't make any effort to request anonymity or indicate that that's what he wanted. That's why sharing his name is not doxing, it's reporting.

I would think that a person in the public life is one who markets himself as part of a product or service.

When I think of somebody going through Whois and searching database information I start to think of somebody who thinks himself a Bob Woodward instead of researching a public figure.

But you do make a fair point about anonymous hosting.

 

[MNC]

Giant Bomb Chicago? This is a funny I'm not getting right?

 

[Mesoian]

why people can't accept divekick as being a legitimate good game, i will never understand

People don't?

Giant Bomb Chicago? This is a funny I'm not getting right?

THey did this maybe a month ago and it was hilarious.

 

[Brakke]

When 60 Minutes does an expose they don't publish the phone numbers of people they failed to contact.

That's a real straw man of an analogy. Antoine Morcos's twitter is literally @AntoineMorcos. Which is publicly searchable. Any arbitrary person was like 0.5 seconds from finding that twitter after reading the name. Patrick even did him a favor by misspelling his name "Antonie" in the article, which made it take me a full second to find him!

Spoiler

lol

I really don't want to be the Patrick Defense Force here, but I think we oughta be precise in our criticisms.

 

[undercoverb0ss]

Giant Bomb Chicago? This is a funny I'm not getting right?

wut

 

[Backfoggen]

Giant Bomb is a pretty weird site.

 

[komplanen]

I haven't been to this thread for a while so can someone summarize to me which GB member do we hate this week and why? It's obviously either Patrick or Brad, as always.