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Google's jab at the Xbox One X and PS4Pro shows they don't understand the industry and have no interest in learning.
- Thread starter Afro Republican
- Start date
joe_zazen
Member
joe_zazen I get what your saying but disagree. Mobile gaming also has a very low point of entry, literally anyone who has a smartphone (40% of the world population). A+ Devs still don't take their talent there. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
A+ devs will just need to port their games to stadia and get all the benefits of low barrier platfom without having to move talent anywhere, just like ID did with Doom2.
I want to be be wrong, but that conference yesterday was the reason Kodera moved to network and MS has been going crazy with xbox.
No chance of seeing machines with that kind of performance.
Jon Neu
Banned
What? You are literally making things up.
Teraflops have been used by Sony and MS all the time to sell their consoles because is a simple way to tell people how powerful their console is, Google is doing the same. Now people can see that their console is more powerful than the PS4 pro and Xbox X combined.
Precisley having a year of advantage and showing a console much more powerful now will give them the novelty thing, if they launched at the same time they wouldn't have that advantage.
When the PS5 and the next Xbox launch the next year, they probably aren't going to be that much more powerful as most rumours talk about 10/12 teraflops for their new consoles.
So actually, if Stadia works it can force Sony and MS to upgrade their consoles to actually make a difference.
Again, you don't know nothing about the state of their studios. You are critizicing your own made up preconceptions and guesses.
And the rest of your points is basically you doing the same and critizing them for goin to a DEV congress and trying to sell their console to those DEVS while you say: see, they are so desperate that have to actually try to sell the benefits of their console to DEVS!
I understand people are skeptic about this, I am too. But one thing is being skeptic and the other is just make things up to fuel your desire for hate.
DanielJr82
Member
MayauMiao
Member
Well that worked out so well for Microsoft during their first unveiling of Xbox One,
Jon Neu
Banned
Funny how you mention the Xbox One but not the 360.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
No it does not at all because the compression completely muddles the image, it was one of the dumbest things they could have tried to staunch. Even on a 1080p Youtube video you can see the glaring differences.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
Thank you for having some sense. The stupidity around here about this topic is getting out of control.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
No it does not at all because the compression completely muddles the image, it was one of the dumbest things they could have tried to staunch. Even on a 1080p Youtube video you can see the glaring differences.
That's a big difference, I noticed it watching the YouTube stream in 4K when it showed the water demo. You could see that the textures on the rocks were far blurrier than the native image.
They bought YouTube ...
But they've also done many, many other things that didn't work and are not in your list. Not a single one was something like a game. They just don't have the practise or the studios. MS at least had some practice in making games.
Google really just want to get into the market. They may have the resources, but there is still no real market for streaming-services. Just a really small one, they have to invest in it a very long time. And do you know what google does if they have to invest into something ... they pull the plug.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
There is far more revenue in providing what is basically a rental service, and never have to worry about second hand sales or physical production cost.
As an option this isn't an issue, but if they want this to be 100% that's where consumers lose their product rights.
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Woo-Fu
Banned
It is another walled garden where the platform holder has 100% control. It goes even further in making sure that everybody who plays games on your platform pays your price. There won't be any used market to worry about, there probably won't be any piracy worth mentioning. No grey market game keys. There won't be a constant cycle of R&D to produce new consoles capable of running modern games.
The list of benefits for the platform holder is very, very long. The list of benefits for the consumer is very, very short and be prepared to pay for each and every one of them just as much or more than you sink into traditional console gaming.
Maguro
Member
That sounds terrible..
FearlessBelgian
Member
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Google should have a clue about the game industry. Didn’t Phil Harrison used to work for Sony awhile back?
thelastword
Banned
I think most have that sentiment, there's is nothing wrong with what Google is doing, there is a market for it, but it's success is dependent on what type of differentiation there is between what already exists and what will exist pretty soon......So persons are just arguing the PRO's and CONs......Some are already overhyping it and some people always esteem large pocket companies to simply come and make game streaming akin to Japanese online play, but clearly that's not true....
I think most welcome competition, but we can still argue the differences.....Of course when it launches is when more conclusive analyses can be made, but like anything else, Google is promising lots and leaving out some details; like what type of bandwidth you would need, what the subscription rates would be, what the exclusive games wil be etc........The quick loading and youtube integration is great, but these are things we expect on PS5/XB2 as well and these consoles will also be played offline, whilst having better IQ and fidelity and of course many exclusives......So if Google themselves are pitting themselves against MS and Sony, with superior spec talk and directing a few jabs at them, then naturally people will compare the strengths and lack thereof on both sides.....Whilst MS and Sony have been at it for a while, google is just entering and they can't expect just to take over surely......Game streaming is not new to Sony either, not only do they have a super successful console, they have a very successful game streaming service that utilizes a low bandwidth meter of 5Mb/s for years ongoing....So it's not exactly something revolutionary Google is doing here, where the competition have no clue, and of course their service is still not live and clearly has some issues at the time of reveal........
ResilientBanana
Member
Does a blade handle one customer at a time?
mcjmetroid
Member
Behold!
.
In Google's defence the audience stupidy cheered at this image. Was quite embarrassing to watch.
I think the videogame industry needs to grow up, this isn't the "bit" wars anymore.
ClanOfNone
Member
if anybody has the cash to compete, it's Google. This old man seems to recall a time when Microsoft entered the console space and how people laughed and laughed at them.
Clearly this is not an Ouya situation, I'm quite interested to see how this all folds out.
Clearly this is not an Ouya situation, I'm quite interested to see how this all folds out.
HeresJohnny
Member
Isn’t it just the same dick waving that Microsoft has been doing with the X? Half the things listed in the OP are things Microsoft is guilty of with the X.
It’s just dick waving, you can’t really blame them for it when other companies do that same thing. I’m still not buying one, for many of the same reasons I avoided the X. Better stuff down the pike shortly.
It’s just dick waving, you can’t really blame them for it when other companies do that same thing. I’m still not buying one, for many of the same reasons I avoided the X. Better stuff down the pike shortly.
shoegaze
Member
It's definitely the future of gaming. And obviously Google believes that finally it's the right time to step in and take over by being the first one to take it seriously. Not half-ass it like MS or Sony, not "play" with the idea. Just make the subconscious wants of the masses materialize - play anywhere anytime on any screen.
I just hope latency will still be a problem for at least one more gen. And i hope it won't be cheaper to play than buying used games, or re-selling after completion. Otherwise I'll be forced to use Stadia before I'm comfortable with the idea.
I'm a dinosaur by gaming standards and will stall this shit as long as i can by playing physical.
I just hope latency will still be a problem for at least one more gen. And i hope it won't be cheaper to play than buying used games, or re-selling after completion. Otherwise I'll be forced to use Stadia before I'm comfortable with the idea.
I'm a dinosaur by gaming standards and will stall this shit as long as i can by playing physical.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
I can already see the shots being fired by MS and Sony speakers regarding streaming artifacts etc. Will be really entertaining to watch, can‘t wait
yurinka
Member
Google are the guys behind Android, the biggest mobile gaming platform. Mobile gaming generates more than the half of the gaming revenue and has more players than all the other gaming markets combined. GDC is an event for devs, so their announcement here was to introduce their platform and technology to devs in order to get their support.
If there someone who doesn't understand the gaming industry is the OP, not Google.
If there someone who doesn't understand the gaming industry is the OP, not Google.
leo-j
Member
a 2019 machine from google with 10.7 TFLOPS
vs a PS5 which is rumored by the same guy that leaked WII U specs to be a minimum of 12 TFLOPS. A 2020 machine being more powerful than a 2019 machine isn't out of the question. Especially since it's rumored to come out at $499.
Yeah, but their announcement really has nothing to do with GDC per se, its was obviously a public announcement, not closed door meeting. Not sure what it has to do with his comments.
If anything its a very strange announcement, because they really didn't announce much of anything to devs or consumers. What are they selling? (Really the only hints is from Ubisoft)
Afro Republican
Banned
They are about exclusives, they said it during the conference as well as interviews and directly made a studio to facilitate them.
Afro Republican
Banned
Android wasn't there's.
Also not only did Google buy YouTube, it also hasn't ever made a single dime.
Afro Republican
Banned
There are so many Phil Harrison interviews out now I'd hoped you'd at least look at one of them before posting this.
Also no, the other consoles didn't "only" use TF for their reveals. Might want to go back and look.
spiderman0616
Member
Not a lot of people are mentioning the data cap limit issues this could cause. Comcast limits our monthly usage to 1 TB a month. We have never gone higher than 7-800 GB in a month, but that could change now that we have a 4K TV and Apple TV 4K. If services like this became widespread, people are going to be hitting those data caps at record pace.
The other thing nobody seems to care about is that this is a gaming service created by a company that makes most of its money on advertising. Historically, gamers haven't taken kindly to that. Anyone remember the Gillette ads in Battlefield 2142? lol
The other thing nobody seems to care about is that this is a gaming service created by a company that makes most of its money on advertising. Historically, gamers haven't taken kindly to that. Anyone remember the Gillette ads in Battlefield 2142? lol
manfestival
Member
Why do teraflops matter when you are just streaming at the end of the day? This is specifically for devs or will there be some actual local assistance if you have a skadia home console as well?
Romulus
Member
I don't think they understand how important exclusives are. If they did, that would have been a bigger part of the showcase of their conference. "But it's coming later." You could argue their exclusives aren't ready to be shown, and I would argue then neither is Stadia. Its my opinion that they needed to come out of the gate swinging with exclusives. They didn't.
When you have something like Stadia that is fighting an uphill battle of winning the hearts and minds of gamers. That's difficult, very difficult with the negative stigma attached with streaming games as your primary feature. They needed to come out with a banger exclusive to show. Can you imagine a AAA reboot of Legion of Kain or some Star Wars unique adventure? The buzz would have been completely different about this thing.
Since they don't have the games to show, all my mind thinks about is input lag, and that gives Sony/MS more chances to convince me for next gen.
When you have something like Stadia that is fighting an uphill battle of winning the hearts and minds of gamers. That's difficult, very difficult with the negative stigma attached with streaming games as your primary feature. They needed to come out with a banger exclusive to show. Can you imagine a AAA reboot of Legion of Kain or some Star Wars unique adventure? The buzz would have been completely different about this thing.
Since they don't have the games to show, all my mind thinks about is input lag, and that gives Sony/MS more chances to convince me for next gen.
Barakov
Member
I think most people wouldn't be opposed to the new technology if the new technology was far better than how it is in it's current state. Also Google's reputation isn't helping matters as well people really like to own their games and like to access to it on their terms.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Behold!
Above is a picture of Google showing their lack of understanding of the Video game industry and they made similar comments post conference.
Google doesn't care to learn or understand the industry and is entering with bags of cash and name. No infrastructure, no studios, few partners, etc:
A. Google literally just looked on a website about what the latest consoles are and saw the One X and Pro. Their words indicate this because they focused exclusively on teraflops and nearly nothing else.
B. A company seriously entering the industry and using power as a primary reason to use their platform, would not be stupid enough to advertise a 10tf platform a year before new consoles more powerful that that come out...Except Google.
C. They literally pulled Stadia game studios out their ass live on conference to say they had a first-party. While I'm sure they will move current staff to this studio, hiring and career positions related to Stadia didnt show until this morning.
D. They basically have zero Dev partners and are funding no TP games (like Dead Rising 3 and MS or Sony and SFV). For a company dropping the retail aspect for a gaming platform they will need a lot of content. Which they dont have.
E. Stadia itself is not even finished. They say there's tests for 120fps, 8K, Dolby Vision, multi GPU rendering, and more, saying they have the centers to make this possible. But the best example they can push on stage is a compressed 4k 60fps game with no HDR with input lag???
F. They didn't show one game that you can't get on all or almost all their competitors.
I've looked at the conference again and read the new info coming out and post-conference interviews. Google isn't even trying.
This thing is likely DOA if they launch this year like they claimed. They aren't even ready. This seems like a desperate reactionary move to get devs and investors to put in on this idea and make it grow.
Well said and I would add that when it comes to games there is one looming concern I don't think many are talking about. The API. Developers are going to have a hard time taking their game and developing a port for yet another API. If Stadia would be successful, I don't see it until 2020. By then Microsoft would have a full library of Xbox One games that just work because there's no need for a port with the xCloud service. Sony could beef up it's PSNow service within that time frame as well, again with a plethora of games past and present, that just works. Google has a steep hill to climb and though I am still interested in some of the features they mentioned, I'm not ignorant to the fact that its going to take some time to get up to speed.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
One positive thing to come out of stadia, we now know the bottom floor of GPU power for next gen consoles: 10.7Tflops.
This is good news!
This is good news!
ph33rknot
Banned
they have all the moneyz behind them
Shifty
Member
I feel like this thread is a natural pushback against the Voost Kain hype
And yeah, the specs stuff... Google would have a better time trying to sell it on unique experiences that need so much processing power that you legit cannot get them on consoles / PC. Trying to make direct comparisons between hardware specs like that is conveniently ignoring the huge fucking downside that the whole thing is streamed.
And yeah, the specs stuff... Google would have a better time trying to sell it on unique experiences that need so much processing power that you legit cannot get them on consoles / PC. Trying to make direct comparisons between hardware specs like that is conveniently ignoring the huge fucking downside that the whole thing is streamed.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
OP. I had a similar reaction when Apple took a jab at the Nintendo DS back in 08, with their shitty "gaming" platform. And look how that turned out..
I think this is probably bigger than we're willing to believe right now. But we will all see. I don't think it's gonna be perfect day one, but eventually it might be quite popular.
The big problem IMO is related to the Internet Service Providers. To me, if Google really wants this in the bag, they'll fuse Stadia with their own ISP(as a option). That way they can tackle the issue of service quality and make it easier for everybody. Right now many people have capped Internet, this needs to be dealt with if Google wants a real footing in this market.
I think this is probably bigger than we're willing to believe right now. But we will all see. I don't think it's gonna be perfect day one, but eventually it might be quite popular.
The big problem IMO is related to the Internet Service Providers. To me, if Google really wants this in the bag, they'll fuse Stadia with their own ISP(as a option). That way they can tackle the issue of service quality and make it easier for everybody. Right now many people have capped Internet, this needs to be dealt with if Google wants a real footing in this market.
MaKTaiL
Member
Gmail is still in Beta.
zackmorris
Member
Well to be fair, those same numbers have been used on this very forum in many a console debate
CyberPanda
Banned
Lol. We will be lucky enough to get a minimum of 10 Tflop at that. 12 max, and that’s pushing it.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
It's a Google product, they will put it out there, add links to it in relevant streams, etc. maybe try different pricing structures, so on and so forth. We can't tell right away if it will work, because it has not really been tried in that specific manner (stream games running on powerful gaming hardware, to any device that chooses to have a client for them).
I'm not that interested ( I could have PSNow right now, could not care less for it either ).
I think the success of this service is mostly dependent on pricing, any trade off has a "price"... I find most modern games too elastic in their control to begin with, so they'll work "great" even if the input lag is not fixed.
SonGoku
Member
10TF is pathetic for a streaming service, WTF where they thinking? Not even high end pc levels
Next gen is gonna be local and more powerful to boot around 12-14TF. Its like they wanted to build a platform with the worst of both world
If you are gonna make a streaming service make sure it at least matches or surpasses high end PCs. Why the hell would someone deal with all the downsides of streaming to play at console grade hw?
Next gen is gonna be local and more powerful to boot around 12-14TF. Its like they wanted to build a platform with the worst of both world
If you are gonna make a streaming service make sure it at least matches or surpasses high end PCs. Why the hell would someone deal with all the downsides of streaming to play at console grade hw?
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