Lumpyoatmeal
Member
I told you don't touch that darn thing
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
sncvsrtoip
Gold Member
Unfortunately this forum in last few years with appear of new users become pc master race an microsoft little world and I dont read it as often as usualApparently Alex was told by an Epic dev that they have improved the performance of Hardware Lumen by 80% with 5.3. This is second hand information from someone over at era who said this was posted on beyond3d but i am too tired to go digging up Alex's posts on that forum.sncvsrtoip roams the beyond3d forum so maybe he has seen that Alex post.
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True much of the insights seem to have left. But atleast the UE dev now provides a good bit.Unfortunately this forum in last few years with appear of new users become pc master race an microsoft little world and I dont read it as often as usual
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This looks insane. Actual gameplay footage too. This gen is going to be fucking amazing when it finally gets going.
Msamy
Member
Yes I saw it yesterday , It looks very good
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I like dynamic tod, I think it's a good lighting feature, it looks great in motion and has more than just one or a set of predesigned baked phases. Sure, there are cons too but baked stuff look great since something like Mirror's Edge in 2008 (or 2009 to crank it up on the PC), it's hardly next gen stuff.
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Hugare
Member
Baked looks awesome, but I believe that they arent baking anything and are only relying on dynamic GI
Mirror's Edge is an excellent example. Lighting looks gorgeous to this day.
RDR 2 baked many different TOD, same for Horizon, same for AC Unity, same for Batman AK ...
Note how these are some of the best looking open world games ever. It's no coincidence.
Fallout 4, all the AC games after Unity and even Cyberpunk (despite having great GI), for example, had a bunch of glowing stuff everywhere due to only relying in dynamic GI
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
"Insane"? I have no idea what ya'll are talking about any more. The first minute or so looks decent but after that it looks really bad more often than not.
There's all kinds of scenes that look like this in that video;
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I see great lighting, reflections and smoke effects in the worst looking section of the video. The good looking sections look next gen."Insane"? I have no idea what ya'll are talking about any more. The first minute or so looks decent but after that it looks really bad more often than not.
There's all kinds of scenes that look like this in that video;
The initial cutscene was nice but the gameplay visuals are hardly insane, looks good like a high tier last-gen game. It honestly reminds me of Anthem at max settings not to mention its a showcase trailer from a korean game which are notorious for dishonest vertical slices that are never realized and tthe actual visuals are significantly inferior.
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amigastar
Gold Member
A little bit unrelated but this demo reminded me of zelda link's awakening. I can't wait to see what Nintendo comes up with for Switch 2 in terms of graphics. I only remember zelda link's awakening for the Switch which looked frikkin nice.
Masterofchapter
Banned
New avatar frontiers of Pandora footage looks insane best looking open world out there,
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
You've gotta be kidding me... the smoke effects look like 2D sprites. Like 360 era quality
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Havn't you noticed, PC always get these improvements after the games have been out for a while but Console never does.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its probably because the PC versions of Gotham Knights, Dead Space, TLOU, Star Wars and hogwarts were so fucking trash compared to their console versions they HAD to get improvements to run better. Dead Space is still trash on PC. Constant stutters 11 months after launch. Star Wars too.
In terms of performance improvements, i think Star Wars got a big boost on consoles, but yes, it's rare. I would be interested to see if they get a 40 fps mode working in Starfield now that the PC version has seen CPU improvements. Plague's Tale had similar improvements on PC before they patched in the 60 fps mode on consoles.
UE5 is still very new. I was following a dev of immortals on reddit, and he said that they kept finding new ways to optimize. They actually improved the resolution from 720p to 900p last i checked. a massive 50% increase in pixels. Good thing with UE5 is that as Epic improves the core engine performance, everyone will receive the improvements as long as they compile the game on the latest build. I think the Robocop devs are so fucking talent that they might just do that. Keep in mind, UE5 could not do 60 fps as early as 2021 when the Matrix came out. Epic made a lot of improvements to get 60 fps working with lumen and nanite over the last couple of years, but their original target for PS5 was 1440p 30 fps.
The fact that Remnant, immortals, robocop, fortnite and lords of the fallen are running at 60 fps at all (Albeit at low resolutions) is proof that improvements are already in place, and they will continue to come.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Think a 3770 cpu (and GTX1080) can get more than stable 30fps in Starfield after the patch? I shelved the game to wait for an upgrade (probably because it just wasn't very good even outside the performance which felt worse than it was too, otherwise I'd probably play it like Rem4ke and others).
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Some gifs from the recent Avatar preview. It seems there wasnt much of a downgrade since the E3 2023 PS5 gameplay reveal. its still not as good as the E3 2021 reveal, but maybe Avatar 2 could get us there.
I also wish they had figured out how to get rid of foliage pop-in while flying but other than that, the draw distance is great while on foot and there doesnt seem to be much pop-in unless you are flying.
Going to play some Horizon FW and capture some gifs to do some comparisons because DF cant be bothered to do game comparisons.
I also wish they had figured out how to get rid of foliage pop-in while flying but other than that, the draw distance is great while on foot and there doesnt seem to be much pop-in unless you are flying.
Going to play some Horizon FW and capture some gifs to do some comparisons because DF cant be bothered to do game comparisons.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol how did you capture these shots? game doesnt look this good on my tv.I'd like to see more 3rd person games utilize letterboxing. I love the cinematic look and theres more render budget to play with. Kojima was smart to do so with DS.
but yes, played death stranding in widescreen and it felt perfect. the wider fov is crucial but it works. especially on an oled where black bars dont really show up in a dark room. you save on pixel rendering and get a native non-aliased shimmer-free image. looks like hellblade 2 will be doing this. i hope death stranding 2 has a mode like that too. Alan Wake 2 is the perfect candidate for this as well. especially on consoles where it has poor IQ.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Msamy
This video explains the difference between lumen lighting and baked lighting very well. Really good watch. Whats interesting is that with UE5.3 they are able to add lumen reflections to BAKED lighting scenes. So you no longer need to take the performance hit when enabling Software Lumen or Hardware Lumen just for reflections. Simply bake in the lighting offline, ship it on disc, save on performance and then have the reflections be realtime.This way something like Robocop which has static time of day can benefit from not having to run dynamic gi at all times and maybe put in those gpu resources towards either other visual effects or simply higher resolutions since that seems to be the biggest complaint from console gamers playing these UE5 games. Lord of the Fallen actually does this already. they bake in the lighting so its actually the UE5 lighting but its just not dynamic which saves on gpu performance. Maybe instead of doing dynamic GI in the 60 fps mode, they can use baked lighting and push the resolution a bit more.
Timestamped:
Lots of other good stuff here. the video is old, but it really showcases how easy it is to add volumetric lighting, foliage and other 3d effects from 2d textures now. literally a click of a button lol. UE5 is an insane tool. Im sure other devs over at rockstar and sony studios are also working on these features but this explains why Teyon was able to get Robocop out so fast at such high fidelity.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
So after playing more Robocop on PS5 I can def see where the praise is coming from. Yeah ..Lumen + detailed assets def gives it a photo real look at times. I think its the accuracy of Lumen lighting that separates this from a lot of games.
For me tho despite the graphics the low budget nature if the game hurts the illusion a bit too much and I'm more impressed by most AAA games with high production values even tho they don't have as accurate of lighting or as detailed texture work. Like I'll take Spiderman 2 and Alan Wakes visuals over this any day of the week. It's a nice hint tho at what's to come if we start getting some aaa devs who know how to use UE5.
PS- I'm talking about fidelity mode. Performance modes are too low res to be impressed by UE5 so far. Resolution is so important.
For me tho despite the graphics the low budget nature if the game hurts the illusion a bit too much and I'm more impressed by most AAA games with high production values even tho they don't have as accurate of lighting or as detailed texture work. Like I'll take Spiderman 2 and Alan Wakes visuals over this any day of the week. It's a nice hint tho at what's to come if we start getting some aaa devs who know how to use UE5.
PS- I'm talking about fidelity mode. Performance modes are too low res to be impressed by UE5 so far. Resolution is so important.
Lysandros
Member
As to budget, with a wider FOW you are also rendering more of everything, geometry, shadows, textures etc. so the processing/memory cost should actually increase for those. In the same time you are rendering all with a lower resolution, so it should still help if the bottleneck is fill rate, shaders etc. I still think it can be more of a trade off than a straight win in performance.I'd like to see more 3rd person games utilize letterboxing. I love the cinematic look and theres more render budget to play with. Kojima was smart to do so with DS.
Masterofchapter
Banned
Character models explosion looks way better than e3 2021 foilage draw distance got downgraded
Some gifs from the recent Avatar preview. It seems there wasnt much of a downgrade since the E3 2023 PS5 gameplay reveal. its still not as good as the E3 2021 reveal, but maybe Avatar 2 could get us there.
I also wish they had figured out how to get rid of foliage pop-in while flying but other than that, the draw distance is great while on foot and there doesnt seem to be much pop-in unless you are flying.
Going to play some Horizon FW and capture some gifs to do some comparisons because DF cant be bothered to do game comparisons.
SKYF@ll
Member
Robocop's performance mode is 1080p (PS5 & XSX) and quality mode is 1440p (PS5), XSX (1080p).
I finished SpiderMan2 so I'm interested in RoboCop.
Comparing the cityscapes of UE5(console) and Spider-Man2 will be interesting as the latest console game.
I'm also interested in what additional features are possible with high-end PCs.
GymWolf
Member
2 min in and i'm still waiting the impressive or even great part...division 1 fake reveal from almost 10 years ago looks better...
The last 3 minutes must be incredible...
If this was a movie it would be that famous western "The assassination of the graphical expectations by the cowards nextgen devs"
Edit: finished, you people are out of your mind, now i'm sure of it
Insane\nextgen
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mrMUR_96
Member
It looks decent, but my god the 2021 trailer looks so much better than the final release.SpiderMan2 cityscapes images.(Fidelity 40fps/VRR/smooth/4KRT)
1,day time
2,night time
3,Same location as 2021 trailer
4,2021 trailer(from youtube)
Masterofchapter
Banned
May be in ps7
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just an fyi, fidelity 40 fps doesn’t run at 4k. It runs at 1440p. They just say they target 4k but both df and nx gamer pixel counts suggested it runs at 1440p. I’m guessing they implemented drs in that mode for when the ps5 pro comes out and runs the 40 fps mode at Full 4k. You can then set it to uncapped and hit 60 fps.SpiderMan2 cityscapes images.(Fidelity 40fps/VRR/smooth/4KRT)
1,day time
2,night time
3,Same location as 2021 trailer
4,2021 trailer(from youtube)
Ps5 night time looks like crap. It’s the biggest downgrade I’ve seen this grn. Forza, starfield and avatar at least tried to match their initial renders. Insomniac just made this shit up.
Msamy
Member
This way something like Robocop which has static time of day can benefit from not having to run dynamic gi at all times and maybe put in those gpu resources towards either other visual effects or simply higher resolutions since that seems to be the biggest complaint from console gamers playing these UE5 games. Lord of the Fallen actually does this already. they bake in the lighting so its actually the UE5 lighting but its just not dynamic which saves on gpu performance. Maybe instead of doing dynamic GI in the 60 fps mode, they can use baked lighting and push the resolution a bit more.
Timestamped:
Lots of other good stuff here. the video is old, but it really showcases how easy it is to add volumetric lighting, foliage and other 3d effects from 2d textures now. literally a click of a button lol. UE5 is an insane tool. Im sure other devs over at rockstar and sony studios are also working on these features but this explains why Teyon was able to get Robocop out so fast at such high fidelity.
Thank you
SlimySnake
for sharing this , I keep telling everyone good visuals this gen is something very achievable but need some efforts to develop various graphics features ( like those in UE5 and snowdrop engines) for current gen consoles , I remember in ps3 generations those who take easy root and develop title's that looks like shit because of cell possessor and weak GPU excuses and those who develop best visuals In ps3 gen by spend efforts in take full advantage of cell possessor and develop new tech for it , this current gen consoles are even way easier to develop new graphics tech for them , in the end ray tracing GI , releflection and shadows can easily be used together in current gen consoles by using hybrid techniques like the video that you shared but developer's need to spend some effort to upgrade their rendering engines.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Here:
Inside Immortals of Aveum: Unreal Engine 5 And The Next-Gen Difference [Sponsored]
LMAOLiterally uploaded 20 minutes ago. At least they put SPONSORED in the title to tell us they are getting paid to shill for this game. they shilled tlou1 and mario rpg for free.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
BTW, Immortals trial is up on PSN,XBOX and Steam for people who want to see this next gen difference on their own.
Because it's colorful and atmospheric?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, some of the interiors needed more oomph and better production values for sure. I think this is where modern AAA games especially Sony games begin to stand out. The sets they put effort into have kind of spoiled us. I honestly hate the stop and start nature of TLOU2 but there is no doubt that the stadium level with Abby and walking through Tommy's town as Ellie made you feel part of a living breathing world.
Robocop nails the outdoor levels with just the right amount of atmosphere and detail, but indoor areas seem to be lacking. But then again, it is a $50 budget game after all.
This level is a great example. I am sure robocop has better lighting and asset quality in its police station level but this feels so much more expensive. It's almost unfair to compare it to robocop. I think we've been spoiled.
P.S This is slightly off topic, but I kept thinking about why i dropped Dead Space and so many other gamepass games before finishing while beating woke fests like sony games with dozens of walking segments. I think it's the production values. They are just so far ahead of everyone else in the business, aside from maybe rockstar, that even next gen looking games feel dated in comparison to their cross gen games.
GymWolf
Member
I'm not sure what are you saying, are you impressed by some scripted npcs inside the scene or what?
There is a major difference between rockstar and sony, in rockstar games you can actually interact with the shit on screen at any given moment.
You enter a saloon and the scene composition seems scripted but you can actually interact with everything or kill everything or talk to everyone.
Sony games are far too sanitized and scripted and untouchable in those sections.
Different game phylosophy, sure, but one is way more impressive than the other.
There is a major difference between rockstar and sony, in rockstar games you can actually interact with the shit on screen at any given moment.
You enter a saloon and the scene composition seems scripted but you can actually interact with everything or kill everything or talk to everyone.
Sony games are far too sanitized and scripted and untouchable in those sections.
Different game phylosophy, sure, but one is way more impressive than the other.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah. I am impressed with the work both Rockstar and Sony studios put in when it comes to world building and production values. Relative to say other single player campaigns that just design some levels, stitch them together and then call it a day. Alan Wake 2 has that town that you explore as Saga, Star Wars had that saloon that ran like shit on PC, but its little things like that along with some setpieces that set these AAA games apart from some of the B games we have gotten this year. Robocop isnt the only game that lacks those production values. A lot of AAA nowadays games feel a bit dated to me because they lack setpieces and high production values ive come to expect from these big AAA titles despite the fact that Sony is basically still making cross gen games.
All I am saying is that there is more to visuals than next gen lighting and assets, and could probably be the reason why these sony games are holding up better than most despite their cross gen nature.
GymWolf
Member
I would quit gaming alltogether if games were full choke of walking section and qte infested sequences with barely any significative gameplay or challenge that you love so much, but we already discussed this.
Thank god for some AAA feeling like an AA.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I hate the walking sequences but i can’t deny that despite all the walking, the wokeness and lack of interactivity, these campaigns are far more engaging than the b game campaigns we get from Ubisoft, EA and Microsoft. Not to mention all the independent third party studios.
Credit where credit is due. I actually finish Sony exclusives. Maybe they do know what they are doing when it comes to pacing and production values.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Sony Production values have spoiled me, everything else simply feels cheap and B-grade. Awaiting GTA6.
Abysmal production values are probably the main reason I despise From Software games the way I do (next to combat). All that amazing art and you're going to throw it down the drain with D-tier production? Give me a break
Abysmal production values are probably the main reason I despise From Software games the way I do (next to combat). All that amazing art and you're going to throw it down the drain with D-tier production? Give me a break
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GymWolf
Member
Spidey 2 had pretty shitty pacing with all those slow sequences and jawline sequences and overly prolonged boss fights that are not even good (looking at you scream).
Unchy 3\4 had shitty pace, tlou2 had shitty pace, some parts of days gone have shitty pace and the list probably goes on and on...
I don't think their pace was ever a reason for me to complete their games, probably the opposite (never finished unchy3 and unchy 4 took me 6 months because i gave up like 3 times
But yeah sony games have that "finishability" that other games don't have.
I think it's just a mixture of great production values, decent stories and good\great gameplay complete package that some other devs can't nail for shit.
But pace? hell no.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Yup posted it already on the OT, they have improved the RT reflections range and overall clarity/resolution. Also they made some adjustments to the white balance and soem extra track details. And they fixed tons of missing/buggy stuf on cars and tracks. Its still not perfect but a solid set of improvements for the second patch.Turk1993 do you know if they did something to graphics on PC in Forza Motorsport? RT on cars looks so much better, hell, even mirrors during races work properly in 3rd person view.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
This is true, i had pictures from GT5 and Forza 4 where people thought they where real, and those are X360/PS3 games lol.Racing games must be the only genre that reached photorealism in still frame pics like 10 ago...
You can fool 99,99% of non-videogame players with many pics of way lesser games than latest forza.
Too bad i don't give a fuck about the genre
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
arkhamguy123
Banned
I was wondering how this board took so long to do that comparison
Ubisoft level of bullshit.
I was gonna post it like a week ago but thought “someone probably already did and I missed it”
Everyone knew it wasn’t gonna be close. It’s generational leap vs “we iterated a bit on our PS4 game”. Utterly pathetic. Especially with that clown ass community manager they got telling everyone “we haven’t shown night scenes yet
” when people said the PS showcase demo looked nothing like the reveal. Atrocious and dishonest practice.
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Msamy
Member
Really want to see what kind of graphics improvements they gonna have in this remaster
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