Ted Striker
Neo Member
Lol, unnamed sources.
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Greece to hold referendum on austerity measures 5 July
- Thread starter Coriolanus
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Lol, unnamed sources.
ClosingADoor
Member
Dutch, not Netherlander. And yes, our goals align with Germany mostly. And in this case with a lot of other Euro countries that want to make a deal happen.
That's how these things work. We'll need to wait for actual confirmation, but the first things leaking out from anonymous sources is not something strange.
It's not the EU who suddenly called a referendum and creating panic. The Greek government did by pulling this stuff at the last second.
Negotiator
Member
People will get panicked, so chances are they might vote "yes". Sounds like a master plan...
I'd laugh if they used this opportunity for a bail-in.
Ted Striker
Neo Member
Then you don't know how greek media work. Most of the time a greek's journalist unnamed sources is his ass.
ClosingADoor
Member
You're right that I don't. I don't read Greek. Let's just wait for the official word from the government on this. Which I hope is coming soon, because these kind of stories being spread unconfirmed is very damaging.
Ether_Snake
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Guardian says banks are closed on Monday. So far, that's that.
show me your skeleton
Member
this whole situation sounds horrible. is there a recap/overview for the layman at all?
I doubt the government will outright say how long the bank holiday will last, primarily to avoid a mass panic.
However, the Financial Times cited an official that it would last several days: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=170182169&postcount=247
There is simply no more cash left.
Negotiator
Member
It might be orchestrated by both parties for all I know.
There's no other way SYRIZA could ratify another memorandum... sounds extremely convenient if you ask me.
Ether_Snake
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It's really telling when, finally, a proposal will be put up to vote for the population, suddenly we are magically further away more than ever from a solution? Did you really think they would never have the population vote on it unless it was their own proposal? This was going to happen one way or another.
But you can see that it's the idea that people will vote Yes that scares the Troika.
But you can see that it's the idea that people will vote Yes that scares the Troika.
nature boy
Member
Why? A yes just strengthens their negotiation position.
Nikodemos
Member
In all fairness, I feel SYRIZA/Tsipras/Varoufakis could have at least attempted to manage this better. Their last-minute referendum thing feels to an outside observer like the same crap Papandreou pulled in August '11 (I think it was '11, could've been '12) when he also announced a snap referendum over Troika-imposed plans.
Ted Striker
Neo Member
ClosingADoor
Member
No, it was not clear that a referendum would happen. And stop making up this strange point the Troika is scared of a yes vote. You are repeating that over and over again and it is very strange.
Definitely this. If they just announced a month ago that they would hold a referendum over the deal they work out with the EU and such, it would have been a good thing. Doing this in some last minute panic, when the current program stops before the voting even takes place, is clearly not a good strategy.
i wonder what kind of precedence there is for a open ended bank holiday -- I've refrained from commenting on the Greek situation, but what was the plan if things went tits up? A devalued Drachma isn't going to be a panacea if all credit is gone and the tax situation is still broken. Greece can look across the straits and see what ill confidence in the banks and government can wreak on a nation for decades.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
I'd imagine it's more the careless, irresponsible way that Greece continues to plays games instead of taking the negotiations seriously.
The referendum is a knee-jerk, reactionary delaying tactic and creates more problems than it solves.
It serves only internal political goals, as cover for the inevitable Yes to the troika that will be the seed in Syriza's undoing.
Negotiator
Member
A digital/electronic-only drachma (no cash) is a golden chance to fix tax evasion if you ask me.
It would also be much faster than printing new banknotes/coins...
ClosingADoor
Member
As far as we know, there was no plan if the deal failed outside of "bring back the Drachma and we'll see." Which some people seem to think will fix everything in a few years, which it will probably not.
Ether_Snake
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Yes = a precedent is set, the agreement would be accepted through a referendum as its foundation. The Troika does NOT want negotiations to lead to a popular vote! How difficult has it been to understand this? How isn't is obvious enough already? This whole situation with Greece is not so much about how to save Greece, but how to deal with the next country that will find itself in such a situation. If Greece comes back with a signed proposal after a referendum, a precedent will have been set that the Troika does NOT want to be set at all cost. They do not want to empower the population, they do not want to empower democracy. They know very well that the population is against them, so they want to deal with corrupt and unpopular politicians only that will capitulate, not parties that rely on popular support.
PdotMichael
Banned
Is there a way that something doesn't get the It's a part of the Troika conspiracy treatment?
ClosingADoor
Member
The Troika does not want to implement its own proposed deal with the backing of the Greek people. Got it.
I get your argument that these organisations don't want the people to have any power. But it seems very far fetched and in the conspiracy theory territory at the moment.
It sounds like a good idea, but the question is if Greece has the infrastructure, the will, and the expertise.
The planning stages for these things usually take years, and as far as we know, no one has even started.
There will always be a means of tax evasion as long as corruption exists.
Ether_Snake
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As soon as the hints of a referendum were announced, the Troika reacted more insultingly than ever, literally pulling the table cloth to themselves and all on it, and trying to fuel panic, because they knew very well that the vote was likely to be a Yes. All of a sudden they have a meeting with all the finance ministers but exclude the Greek finance minister.
The polls pointing in that direction aren't new, they know people would vote yes if the government made the population vote, even if the government said they didn't like the deal. Tsipras will always attack the proposal itself, but not enough to call a vote and turn the opinion around for it to become a No.
Ted Striker
Neo Member
When it gets the It's those scummy Greeks treatment.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Theonik
Member
Time for the drachmacoin cryptocurrency.
nature boy
Member
Considering that Schaueble himself sugested a referendum a month ago, when it made sense, I don't think your point is valid.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...cks-greek-referendum-to-break-bailout-impasse
That's a bit of nonsense. You're acting like the Eurogroup is composed of fascist government ministers who don't have to answer to their electorate. They still have to go back home and explain themselves.
Even the IMF is under pressure from countries like India and Brazil over the greek issue.
A world without fakelaki is a world I can't imagine right now. Sounds intriguing.
Imagine Varoufaki going like: "Nuh, forget the Drachma. How about Dota Hats?"
Nikodemos
Member
Except a referendum would've made no sense a month ago, since nobody knew anything but vague rumours about the terms of the deal.
PdotMichael
Banned
Sure, that chaged.
ClosingADoor
Member
A referendum that came as a total surprise, was not announced and takes place after Greece needs the deal done to get money. How are the other countries to react to something like that?
And how are you going to deal with a government that advises its people to do one thing, but then needs to implement measures for something they are against. This whole thing is a mess.
The Troika has made its own share of faults and should have handled the whole situation a lot better from the start, but this conspiracy level thinking is helping no one.
And yes, you have a meeting without the Greek minister, because they just totally surprised you and you know have to consult with the other countries about what they want to do about it. I don't see that as anything strange.
Not sure if serious.
Nikodemos
Member
What actual positions, beside "Privatise!", "Cut spending!" have you heard from the EuroGroup until, say, mid-late April? They seem to have run around like headless chickens for a whole month after SYRIZA's victory was announced.
nature boy
Member
For those interested in the issues surrounding the IMF, he's a good article (bizarre url though):
http://www.politico.eu/article/imf-greece-grexit-lagarde-dsk-sex-parties-eurozone/
Things I'm afraid aren't always black and white.
http://www.politico.eu/article/imf-greece-grexit-lagarde-dsk-sex-parties-eurozone/
Things I'm afraid aren't always black and white.
petran79
Banned
he did work at Valve and he even tested their hologram contact lenses!
Though he knew the alien he saw was not real, his instinct caused him to panic.
That technology needs the approval of FDA for the USA because this is even more serious than VR and could cause problems for people prone to schizophrenia
It affects the optic nerve directly
http://gr.ign.com/features/13805/feature/giannes-barouphakes-e-valve-kai-to-upourgeio-oikon?p=2
What problems does it create?
Nikodemos
Member
Ewwww, Jean-Claude Trichet. He was impressively garbage as ECB president. Raising interest rates during a recession? What kind of nutbag does that? Oh, yeah, Trichet.
And again they mention Schäuble. Blech.
ClosingADoor
Member
Officially they need to repay a part of their debt to the IMF next week. That is before the referendum. And to get money to repay that, they need the deal with the EU they'll be voting on.
The IMF will probably look the other way for a bit, but you can see why this is far from an ideal situation.
How can you even get money there now. If the banks are closed, can you still use Western Union or something to transfer?
Probably not that good. Although a Greek default will hardly have that much of an impact on the world economy.
nature boy
Member
Regardless of political ideologies, the people are the true victims. I feel for every greek, but this outcome was on the wall when they elected Syriza and ANEL. Cheap talk leads to this.
Rumor going around on twitter, based on greek TV, is a limit of 60-100 euros/day.
Ether_Snake
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No idea. We sent my Grandpa money by Western Union though for his Nameday which is tomorrow. He'll try to get his pension tomorrow also.
My sister lives in Athens. Usually she takes 50 of her account at the start off the week for basic needs. She has no idea what to do right now.
Nikodemos
Member
In mathematical terms: fuckloads. Nobody is willing to be "patient zero", a.k.a. the first guy to write-off Greek debt from their balance sheets. Good ol' piggybacking. Just the invisible hand of the market at work
busy showing the middle finger
That doesn't seem to me to be a real sticking point like the doom and gloom Osiris is fantasizing about. Yanis even said it could be paid with the money the ECB owes Greece.
Even Jack Lew thinks debt relief is in order. If only Syriza would get serious like the people at the IMF with their clairvoyant forecasting.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/28/eurozone-greece-treasury-idUSL2N0ZE08P20150628
Not much, he's probably worried about the European economy not american banks.
Ether_Snake
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It has far more to do with Russia than the US markets.
Erebus
Member
SInce we're only talking about 50, I think she will be fine.
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