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Greece votes OXI/No on more Austerity measures

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The US is pretty much stuck because any action that would be perceived as criticizing Germany will stoke anti-American/Atlantic sentiment. The US can't say anything or do anything in Europe other than military cooperation. If the US says anything, then they'll lose someone.

The Russians aren't crazy in wanting to deepen a rift between the US/UK and the rest of Europe, and Germany is really on the line. France less so these days, unlike 15 years ago.

Yeah, I'd say the current situation in Europe is a foreign policy nightmare (add another to the list) for the US. In addition to this complete failure of the Eurozone to solve anything, their apparent (lack of) feelings for any defense of each other, and rising nationalist parties, you have to believe the State Dept. is banging their heads against the wall (and yeah, the US is partly to blame) over the future of a cohesive and stable Europe. It's like Europe wants to be increasingly relevant in all the wrong issues and increasingly irrelevant in the important ones.
 

Joni

Member
I mean, yes, probably, but believe it or not, if it were that easy, it would already have been done. Completely apart from everything else, Tsipras has a lot of political motivation to make the Greek government run better for the simple reason that he's a politician who wants to get re-elected.
Considering he is a politician that wants to get re-elected, a smaller government is one of the last thing he probably wants in a society where a great deal of people work for said government. That has always been a problem in countries with huge governments: making it smaller isn't popular.

That was kinda predictable once he fired Varoufakis. The referendum would have given him a mandate against the hardliners in his party and he could have played it off like he was just executing the will of his people.
 

alstein

Member
Wonder if there will be any serious diplomatic fallout between the US and the Euro countries if a Grexit occurs.

Doubtful. Neither side can afford it. US-Polish relations are also very strong, and Poland will want the Baltics protected.

The only fallout I can see is US-Germany, and that won't be too severe. US-Greek relations will probably remain ok, US may have to send aid though, as Russia will try to influence Greece.

Turkey will likely want Greece to stay in the American camp as well, as they wouldn't want to be surrounded.
 

Wiktor

Member
Which is why he kept pushing for the future of a united Yurop, stronger than ever. Fwiw

Which is fine idea, but he is pretty much the last person in EU who would be able to jump start it. At this point any proposition from him will just be seen as excuse to avoid reforming Greece.
 
I'm glad they have rejected these absurd conditions that the EU has tried to impose on them.
The Greek government gave everything it could to make it 80% of the way to what the troika wanted. Economically, it should have been enough, but the financial institutions want to destroy Greece's Socialist government more than it wants an economic solution.
 
The Greek government gave everything it could to make it 80% of the way to what the troika wanted. Economically, it should have been enough, but the financial institutions want to destroy Greece's Socialist government more than it wants an economic solution.

Also known as League of Evil.
 
I just caught up on the news and it's kind of mindboggling that Greece showed up to the meeting yesterday without a concrete proposal. Instead there was a picture on Twitter showing the Greek finance minister with handwritten notes on hotel stationery. And he apparently ended up doing a verbal presentation? I don't have the words to describe how crazy this sounds.

That must have been a great presentation.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, Webster's dictionary defines 'money' as...."
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
If it isn't, the taxpayer will have to foot the bill. Whether that's "necessary, even desirable" is certainly debatable, De Grauwe does not inherit the definitive truth, otherwise he'd rule the world economy on his own and we'd all be rich AF. That, however, wasn't the topic.

The taxpayer would not have to foot the bill. The ECB is the institution that decides how much money there is. When they buy the bonds of a sovereign government, they can either do it using existing money, or just create new money with which to do so. If they do the former, taxpayers lose money, yes. However, decision to do the former rather than the latter is, again, a political choice. The consequence of the latter (creating enough new money to buy Greece's debt) causes an increase in the money stock - which causes inflation. In this case, it would not cause very much inflation, because Greece's debt compared to the Euro money stock is tiny, especially as the debt isn't being repaid in one go and isn't being repaid in full (by the ECB, at least). The reason the ECB would stick to using existing liquidity is because they would rather put the taxpayer at risk than suffer inflation - despite the fact that inflation might actually help push the Euro towards a more reasonable value for the southern economies.

Hmm, I wonder which political powers have a vested interest in low inflation and a low-valued Euro despite the wider harm to the European economy?

it is a mystery
 

oti

Banned
Weber had some points. But a few things where a bit too much. I mean you cant say that greece likes to fail.

Of course he had some points. Everyone has valid points here. There's no denying in that Greece seems unable to implement a functioning system and there's also no denying in that austerity isn't the best solution here. But that guy just wanted to show Greece dominance and there's no time or place for egos anymore.
 

Chariot

Member
CSU is all I needed to hear.
True. All their flagship people seem to be absolutely nuts. Just wanted ti give a bit of extra context to this particular guy.

This EP session is nuts.
It's somewhat entertaining to see everyone so emotional. Sadly some parts of our future are connected to this. So it's less funny.

Why would the Grexit be so bad for Greece? Currencies have changed before.
It wouldn't be so much of a problem if it only were Greece for itself. But due them being part of the Euro the problem is much bigger and more than anytbhing else symbolic. Having Greece leave, having anyone leave, could be a strong sign that the Euro don't work at all and the whole economic union could break apart.
Looking forward to Farage.

By the way, this link is giving me better quality than the EBS: http://*******/on-air/tusk-juncker-tsipras-crisis/

Oh, banned link? rt dot com
Thanks, the other was basically unwatchable.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
EP is absolutely bonkers right now.

Tsipras nodding keenly at the moron in front of him with a strained smile, before taking some "notes". I imagine they say: Τι ηλίθιος Τι ηλίθιος Τι ηλίθιος Τι ηλίθιος Τι ηλίθιος etc.
 
Of course he had some points. Everyone has valid points here. There's no denying in that Greece seems unable to implement a functioning system and there's also no denying in that austerity isn't the best solution here. But that guy just wanted to show Greece dominance and there's no time or place for egos anymore.

Haha he get rekt right now by Gabi Zimmer.

Verhofstadt was great. He made the best points and i hope they hear him out. He even offered help.
 

le-seb

Member
Why would the Grexit be so bad for Greece? Currencies have changed before.
How do you think they'll do to import basic stuff they don't produce in sufficient quantities, such as wheat flour for making bread, with no money left in the bank and nobody willing to lend them any more money?
This is going to be a humanitarian disaster.
 

Dascu

Member
Why on earth is this stream so bad? With all the money we give the EU i would expect a flawless HD stream.

I imagine they're getting a way higher than average amount of viewers right now. It's definitely not this bad when I otherwise follow the debates.

Anyway, here's a good quality stream: rt dot com/on-air/tusk-juncker-tsipras-crisis/
 
How do you think they'll do to import basic stuff they don't produce, such as wheat flour for making bread, with no money left in the bank and nobody willing to lend them any more money?
This is going to be a humanitarian disaster.

Im no economist. But when they are back to the Drachme they can decide to print money in the short term to pay for all this which means inflation.
 

Chariot

Member
So much German here.
Well, we have the most representatives in the EU-parliament and we hold the most greek debt, you bet that we have a lot to say.

Why on earth is this stream so bad? With all the money we give the EU i would expect a flawless HD stream.
Probably getting flocked with watchers from all of Europe and the world right now. I suppose it doesn't need to take that many people usually.
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Tsipras was getting reamed, I'm not surprised he looked uncomfortable, they tore him a new one.
 
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