Ok, so. What does this mean? What's going to happen?
The honest answer?
No one knows.
Rhetoric and assumptions are in full swing.
Ok, so. What does this mean? What's going to happen?
Man, the craziness is flying.
Monitor what the ECB does, all there is at this point.
The last time Greece was in trouble, I seem to recall a lot of people being very concerned about the implications, not only in the EU but the US as well.
Can't see the ECB pull the plug before july 20th tbh. We'll probably get populism the next two weeks from both sides without any results and greece defaulting on ECB debt.
Can't see the ECB pull the plug before july 20th tbh. We'll probably get populism the next two weeks from both sides without any results and greece defaulting on ECB debt.
We can't really say anything about that yet. It all depends on the next days and how Greece and the Eurogroup continue their negotiations (if at all).The contagion effects will surely affect south-europe and the Euro will become a dead currency in the mid-term.
How much this will affect the global ecconomy we shall see.
The last time there was a big risk of large (German and I think French) banks going under. That would have had a big impact. That risk is gone now.The last time Greece was in trouble, I seem to recall a lot of US economists being very concerned about the implications.
Is there any Greeks in this thread or people who are aware/seen what has been happening on the ground. I'm curious what the overall living standards are now compared to 5-6 years ago. Before the shit hit the fan. How much have wages decrease? What benefits have they lost or have declined (retirement age increased? Less Welfare, Less full time jobs?) Have the price of goods increase? and so on.
I see.That's because banks were still on the hook for the losses, no longer the case.
The last time Greece was in trouble, I seem to recall a lot of people being very concerned about the what it would do to the economy, not only in the EU but the US as well.
They have consolidated the Greek debt in Greek banks while strengthening Italy, Spain and Portugal. It wasn't Greece, it was the bigger countries that they were scared off.The last time Greece was in trouble, I seem to recall a lot of people being very concerned about the what it would do to the economy, not only in the EU but the US as well.
The last time Greece was in trouble, I seem to recall a lot of people being very concerned about the what it would do to the economy, not only in the EU but the US as well.
Same way people do now. You don't think the rich avoid taxes by mailing hard cash to offshore banks do you? Are you proposing that the government would have to oversee every transaction in the nation? how would this be any different than checking?How do I avoid paying taxes if I charge you for a service or product if the currency is electronic.
Ok, so. What does this mean? What's going to happen?
I see.
So is this really the beginning of the end for the EU or is that a bit hyperbolic?
I see.
So is this really the beginning of the end for the EU or is that a bit hyperbolic?
So is this really the beginning of the end for the EU or is that a bit hyperbolic?
More posturing by both sides. Nothing happens different either way the vote went.
Watching all of this unfold from over here in the US, I'm really amazed at how powerful Germany has become.
Also a bit concerned about what a Grexit will mean for the US/global economy.
https://twitter.com/mathieuvonrohr/status/617780974949146624mathieuvonrohr: German EP Vice President @lambsdorff: "Chancellor Merkel and others must now organize Grexit" http://t.co/neqAxWy3NU
The last time Greece was in trouble, I seem to recall a lot of people being very concerned about the what it would do to the economy, not only in the EU but the US as well.
The last time there was a big risk of large (German and I think French) banks going under. That would have had a big impact. That risk is gone now.
The people have basically voted to exit the Eurozone. It would be hard to not listen to that mandate.
So greeks cant be wrong? Because whatever they do, it seems they have an excuse for everything and its always someone else at fault.This is not the mandate. 80% of Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone (this week's poll). The greek government does not interpret this mandate as a Grexit mandate. If the rest of the EU choose to interpret it that way then it is on them.
This is not the mandate. 80% of Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone (this week's poll). The greek government does not interpret this mandate as a Grexit mandate. If the rest of the EU choose to interpret it that way then it is on them.
I'm not sure this is true. The people have basically voted to exit the Eurozone. It would be hard to not listen to that mandate.
Greece also has no mandate to re-negotiate. The poll only stated "I do not accept these terms".
Some greek politicans stated that they will re-negotiate within 24 to 48 hours. They'll go to a table to get some deals done, but the EU will definately not be there in that timezone. Maybe they'll negotiate with themselves
Also a bit concerned about what a Grexit will mean for the US/global economy.
This is not the mandate. 80% of Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone (this week's poll). The greek government does not interpret this mandate as a Grexit mandate. If the rest of the EU choose to interpret it that way then it is on them.
Hard to tell. But I certainly think it will lead to rather significant reforms.I see.
So is this really the beginning of the end for the EU or is that a bit hyperbolic?
It's quite awesome looking. The higher you get in the Eurobills the more 'fun' the design elements become to stop forgery. Wish I still had some around.There's a 500 note? WTF
It's kinda complicated. Germany has even worse eComerce than Greece I would say. They don't really use Debit cards, and they don't use them online at all. Whereas all debit cards I've gotten in the UK and Greece and well pretty much anywhere were VISA. For online payments they use credit cards but most people don't have them so they had to invent some of their own annoying solutions to that problem.I've heard that Germans despise credit cards and debt in general, but they do love using debit cards.
It was the same in the UK. UK is better than both the US and definitely Germany I would say on this front.Yeah, that absolutely sucks. One thing I throughly enjoy about the US is that you can pay everything and everywhere with your creditcard.
It's 1939 again.Now Golden Dawn party will claim it was them who backed SYRIZA
Foreign press and EU officials will claim there is an alliance between Neonazis and Communists
Cyprus has a peculiar accent and dialect. Crete does as well but not as pronounced.No way. I was in Cyprus two weeks ago and everyone says okie but with the k muffled.
The funny part with this rhetoric though is that people don't realise it is the only guaranteed way they are not getting their money back. It would have been much easier to deal with banks here because they understand how to get their money back and are only bound by that mandate. (responsibility to their stock holders)Yeah, I don't understand why so many people assume that the popular vote in Greece will have much influence on the other states. They don't answer to the people of Greece, they answer to their own people. And many of these people still believe that they should get their billions back. The tabloids in those countries would have a field day with a full scale debt relief, even though Greece just cannot pay the debts back.
Mattress savings are real.The savings are save in Switzerland and other EU states.
And what about the one-dimensional demonization of Greece?
The funny part with this rhetoric though is that people don't realise it is the only guaranteed way they are not getting their money back.
Most people have had to face at least 50-60% of income decrease, either through wage cuts or tax hikes. Those are still considered the lucky ones because they still have jobs. Income reduction, Mass unemployment and the near total collapse of the public health and wellfare system has resulted in a dramatic drop in living standards.
I see.
So is this really the beginning of the end for the EU or is that a bit hyperbolic?
Well that DOES solve the social/pension deficit in a way.In a lot of cases, some things in Greece only work through EU funds! Eg a lot of Special Education schools would have to remain closed
They push the elderly to early death already, people with disabilities will follow next....
It is possible to leave the EU (article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon), it's just not possible for the EU to kick states out.Not a whole lot. Greece makes up less than 2% of the EU's GDP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economies_of_member_states). What's dangerous about Grexit is that it's not supposed to be possible to leave the EU, there's been no stipulation for it before. If Greek can leave, suddenly that makes the EU's union much more fragile.
This is not the mandate. 80% of Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone (this week's poll). The greek government does not interpret this mandate as a Grexit mandate. If the rest of the EU choose to interpret it that way then it is on them.
They voted "no more austerity, because is killing us", no "we don't want the Euro", even of the other European leaders tried to make their best of make this the second one.
Now the ball is in EU court.
And that's on the EU. The ball in in their court now, they want to save Greece, save the EU and the Euro or their political and local careers are more important?
This is not the mandate. 80% of Greeks want to stay in the Eurozone (this week's poll). The greek government does not interpret this mandate as a Grexit mandate. If the rest of the EU choose to interpret it that way then it is on them.
Well other European countries had told Greece that a no vote means a Euro exit. I really can't see how Greece can stay in the Euro zone.
It is possible to leave the EU (article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon), it's just not possible for the EU to kick states out.
Most people have had to face at least 50-60% of income decrease, either through wage cuts or tax hikes. Those are still considered the lucky ones because they still have jobs. Income reduction, Mass unemployment and the near total collapse of the public health and wellfare system has resulted in a dramatic drop in living standards.
Well other European countries had told Greece that a no vote means a Euro exit. I really can't see how Greece can stay in the Euro zone.
And that's on the EU. The ball in in their court now, they want to save Greece, save the EU and the Euro or their political and local careers are more important?
I think it's really unlikely. There's a lot of scaremongering. I remember a few years ago how the European Stability Mechanism was touted as a solution for crisis situations like this one. And now everybody's pretending it doesn't even exist. What the Greeks did tonight is claim back their sovereignty after years of austerity. It's a good lesson in DemocracyI see.
So is this really the beginning of the end for the EU or is that a bit hyperbolic?
I think they have to leave the Euro eventually or much of the debt needs to be written off.
They can't go on endlessly piling on debt.
The EU will be fine if greece leaves. It's not as system relevant as it was a few years ago.It was a pitiful threat to force Greek people vote a "Yes".
They exactly know how dangerous is to kick Greece for the Union and the Euro. They can of course but they will doom both doing so.
No. Greece voted that they did not want to be saved. This was clearly the question: do you take our plan to save your country? Greece said no. There is no "ball" anywhere now. The story is pretty much over.
You can't demand to stay in a club with those other cool guys but expect to be the only one who doesn't follow the club's rules. This does simply not work and Greece will have to exit the club
The EU will be fine if greece leaves. It's not as system relevant as it was a few years ago.
Same way people do now. You don't think the rich avoid taxes by mailing hard cash to offshore banks do you? Are you proposing that the government would have to oversee every transaction in the nation? how would this be any different than checking?
It will show that EU is not truly a political and constitucional union and they being part of the EU is not a secure state.
It will put the whole concept into the dirt, and markets will react that way, and the Euro will be dead after Greece lave of it.
How much has the house market dropped in athens? Whats the sqm price now vs before at its highest?
Talking about overstating the own importance.
Any union with some of the strongest economies in this world can't be dead.