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[HariKari]

Just because something is legal it does not make it right. For instance, within certain limits (that far exceed what is allowed on GAF), it is legal to make misogynist or anti-trans or anti-gay claims. I think, buying guns falls into a very similar spot, where it is (wrongfully) legal in the US, yet it is reprehensible.

There's a whole lot of deer rifles, shotguns, and handguns out there locked away in safes owned by responsible people. You're not going to convince them that what they're doing is morally reprehensible, because it's largely not. Even in countries that are used as shining examples of gun control, guns are not banned. Try taking a less extreme position.

Everyone coming around on gun ownership I see. Funny how quick ideology gets thrown out the window.

It's not necessary until it's suddenly necessary.

 

[Frozenprince]

There's a whole lot of deer rifles, shotguns, and handguns out there locked away in safes owned by responsible people. You're not going to convince them that what they're doing is morally reprehensible, because it's largely not. Even in countries that are used as shining examples of gun control, guns are not banned. Try taking a less extreme position.



It's not necessary until it's suddenly necessary.

 

[Yoshi]

Basically, your entire rationale hinges on what might not happen. But I'm telling you it's happening already. And when they start to feel it's okay to start being actually violent to us once the administration takes wing, with their anti-muslim, anti-brown, anti-black, anti-woman policies those of us with sense will have the fire power to fight back if need be.

Other than his private (disgusting) comments on women, what actual political anti-women policies has Trump supported? I can only think about being against abortion, which I don't think is a good thing but hardly qualifies as hateful politics. I am also not aware of anti-black or anti-brown comments from him. There was a lot anti-hispanics, obviously, and he was definitely trying (and succeeding) to win racist minded people. Maybe I have missed something in that regard and I would appreciate if you would inform me about that.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

How are we supposed to have an honest discussion on this if you think guns are absolutely reprehensible and cannot understand why someone would want or possibly need one? If you think they're absolutely reprehensible, what are we going to say? This discussion is not going to move an iota. Why argue? All the anti-gun people in this thread have done is not even bother to give one way to help defend ourselves if we need it besides basic things like pepper spray as if a gun would be our first answer to crisis rather than our last. The anti-gun contingent of this thread has done nothing but offer moral platitudes that do not stand to scrutiny. You have not once said "you know what, I understand why you would want one to feel protected" it has been endless judgement after judgement without a single concession or admission that maybe, just maybe, there may be a legitimate reason for owning a gun in the United States, as a minority, in post-2016 election. There's been a lot of talk about bubbles recently and this is the biggest example of one I can think of in recent memory.

 

[Yoshi]

There's a whole lot of deer rifles, shotguns, and handguns out there locked away in safes owned by responsible people. You're not going to convince them that what they're doing is morally reprehensible, because it's largely not. Even in countries that are used as shining examples of gun control, guns are not banned. Try taking a less extreme position.

Well, I am not happy about how liberal weapon control is in Germany for instance (where I live). It is considerably too liberal. Of course, locked away weapons are potentially less harmful than ones usually carried around and it is a good thing that almost no one can carry a weapon in public here, but when you take a look at the (few, luckily) shootings we have had here, they have been made possible by legally owned weapons that were not required for a job. Why would I try to take a "less extreme" position when I deem this "less extreme" position immoral? Tell me one good reason why a private person should have a firearm in his household, which is built to kill humans.

EDIT @Cindi: Understanding why you feel the urge to buy a weapon is one thing. I can understand that. It doesn't make it right, nor rational to do so though.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Other than his private (disgusting) comments on women, what actual political anti-women policies has Trump supported? I can only think about being against abortion, which I don't think is a good thing but hardly qualifies as hateful politics. I am also not aware of anti-black or anti-brown comments from him. There was a lot anti-hispanics, obviously, and he was definitely trying (and succeeding) to win racist minded people. Maybe I have missed something in that regard and I would appreciate if you would inform me about that.

Abortion is not the only issue that pertains to women and Trump presidency. He is anti-maternal leave. When the topic of equal pay comes up, Trump's words were “You’re gonna make the same if you do as good a job.” Trump's policies are clearly anti-women.

Continuing, you admit he has says disgusting comments, when the main concern is that his supporters believe it will allow them the capability to render such things on women. I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Trump's policy is almost besides the point where he has made misogyny so blatant and unapologetic a part of his very candidacy. Given the uptick in hate crimes, it doesn't take much to assume that Trump supporters may lash out against women, particularly women of color and lgbt women through his own sanctioned words.

You say he hasn't said anti-black or anti-brown remarks when he has promoted the idea of banning Muslim's from entry, hinted this very week from "leaked" policy schedule documents after a meeting and during his campaign. What does this have to do with brown and black people? Oh, nothing except that the overwhelming majority of Muslims happen to be Arab and African. You said he had anti-latino rhetoric when a large number of latino's are firmly considered to be brown. This should help you out (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_(racial_classification)).

Basically, you don't think Trump's words will result in real world violence, but that's nice. But it already has.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/22/13712934/trump-election-violence-ushahidi-hate-speech

It will only get worse. For that, minorities to buy guns to protect ourselves. It's pretty simple.

@Cindi: Understanding why you feel the urge to buy a weapon is one thing. I can understand that. It doesn't make it right, nor rational to do so though.

Why is it wrong and why is it irrational?

 

[HariKari]

Tell me one good reason why a private person should have a firearm in his household, which is built to kill humans.

Because humans sometimes try to kill other humans, even in civilized society.

We value personal liberty and live in a country where there's no realistic expectation that the police will show up in time to do anything but clean up the mess. Hell, if you live in certain communities, they may never even show up. That's just the way it is. So it falls on a person to protect themselves and their family, should they choose to do so. We allow this because the only equalizer to a bad guy with a gun is another person with a gun in most every situation. The U.S. is an armed society. There is no supply side approach that will work, because there are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation. The cat is already out of the bag. You need to keep this in mind when you are discussing the rationality of owning a gun in the US. It is rational to own an equalizer so that you aren't at a disadvantage.

You can lament the conditions that lead to this situation all you want but the desire to acquire protection, as expressed in this thread, isn't irrational or immoral.

 

[Opto]

You're very unlikely to use a gun in self-defense

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html

Parsing 2012 numbers, the center counted 259 justifiable gun-related homicides, or incidents in which authorities ruled that killings occurred in self-defense.

...

This is also a nation in which, in 2012, there were 1.2 million violent crimes, defined as murder, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. Or, put another way, 1.2 million scenarios in which there was potential for someone to kill in self-defense.

In fact you're more likely to be involved in a fatal misfire.

 

[Rest]

I am also not aware of [...] anti-brown comments from him. There was a lot anti-hispanics, obviously[...]

 

[Frozenprince]

Tell me one good reason why a private person should have a firearm in his household, which is built to kill humans.

Built to kill 200 pound deer.

 

[Tarydax]

Other than his private (disgusting) comments on women, what actual political anti-women policies has Trump supported? I can only think about being against abortion, which I don't think is a good thing but hardly qualifies as hateful politics. I am also not aware of anti-black or anti-brown comments from him. There was a lot anti-hispanics, obviously, and he was definitely trying (and succeeding) to win racist minded people. Maybe I have missed something in that regard and I would appreciate if you would inform me about that.

Yeaaaah, about that. . .

Trump Retweets Bogus (racist) Crimes Graphic

Donald Trump: Ban all Muslim Travel to US

Somali migrants are 'disaster' for Minnesota, says Donald Trump

Donald Trump mocks Asians with broken English in speech

Donald Trump's Description of Black America is Offending Those Living in it

Donald Trump’s Fake Talk To African-Americans Is Really About Wooing Whites

Fears Trump's Steve Bannon hire maintains white nationalism ties

Alt Right Rejoices at Donald Trump’s Steve Bannon Hire

Tell me one good reason why a private person should have a firearm in his household, which is built to kill humans.

To protect oneself against the same kind of people that are forcing NYC to make a specialized hate crimes unit, obviously.

I don't like guns and I wish we could ban them all, but racists aren't going to stop killing people of color anytime soon. Minorities are getting stalked and shot for accidentally bumping into people and for playing "thug" music.

I'm white, I'm terrified of what racists are/will be doing, and my fear doesn't even compare to what other people are feeling. I'm not going to tell people not to arm themselves because then we won't have our Scandinavian utopia. It's a wonderful goal, but this is America. We're the fucking worst. We elected Donald Trump, the most blatantly regressive candidate of a major party in recent history. No way anything even close to that happens in my lifetime.

This isn't like when Obama was elected and idiots thought he was going to take their guns. White supremacists, eugenicists, and all kinds of deplorable bigots have a voice in the White House and conservatives have almost complete control over all the major branches of government. Trump has given racists the legitimacy they've wanted for years. If guns help minorities protect themselves from a bunch of Dylan Roofs, that can only be a good thing. Will there be more deaths that typically come with gun ownership? Probably. But, again, I'm not going to tell minorities that they shouldn't use guns to defend themselves against some George Zimmerman wannabes.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I still don't see the point of owning a gun, aside from false comfort and even then, you're probably better off with pepper spray. Are there many cases or statistics showing that owning a gun is a good idea? Gun violence is ridiculously high in the US; it doesn't exactly take a PHD to understand that more guns are not going to help, they really should be banned. But I'm open-minded and willing to listen

But are you willing to go read the thread completely cause folks already explained why they looking into firearms given the situation.

Pepper spray is useless if there's more than one attacker.

What's making people who never owned a firearm suddenly feel the need to protect themselves? Maybe deal with that instead of insisting minorities shouldnt protect themselves.

 

[Pantaghana]

Tell me one good reason why a private person should have a firearm in his household, which is built to kill humans.

Hunting, self defense, recreation, all valid reasons to own guns. Though I will agree that US takes it disturbingly far with the gun obsession.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yeaaaah, about that. . .

Trump Retweets Bogus (racist) Crimes Graphic

Donald Trump: Ban all Muslim Travel to US

Somali migrants are 'disaster' for Minnesota, says Donald Trump

Donald Trump mocks Asians with broken English in speech

Donald Trump's Description of Black America is Offending Those Living in it

Donald Trump’s Fake Talk To African-Americans Is Really About Wooing Whites

Fears Trump's Steve Bannon hire maintains white nationalism ties

Alt Right Rejoices at Donald Trump’s Steve Bannon Hire



To protect oneself against the same kind of people that are forcing NYC to make a specialized hate crimes unit, obviously.

I don't like guns and I wish we could ban them all, but racists aren't going to stop killing people of color anytime soon. Minorities are getting stalked and shot for accidentally bumping into people and for playing "thug" music.

I'm white, I'm terrified of what racists are/will be doing, and my fear doesn't even compare to what other people are feeling. I'm not going to tell people not to arm themselves because then we won't have our Scandinavian utopia. It's a wonderful goal, but this is America. We're the fucking worst. We elected Donald Trump, the most blatantly regressive candidate of a major party in recent history. No way anything even close to that happens in my lifetime.

This isn't like when Obama was elected and idiots thought he was going to take their guns. White supremacists, eugenicists, and all kinds of deplorable bigots have a voice in the White House and conservatives have almost complete control over all the major branches of government. Trump has given racists the legitimacy they've wanted for years. If guns help minorities protect themselves from a bunch of Dylan Roofs, that can only be a good thing. Will there be more deaths that typically come with gun ownership? Probably. But, again, I'm not going to tell minorities that they shouldn't use guns to defend themselves against some George Zimmerman wannabes.

I'm convinced most of the anti-gun contingent in this thread have no idea what they're talking about in relation to the uptick in violence and hate crimes. They are the bubble liberals that people talked about post election. Except they're still in their bubble. For the rest of us? That thing's popped.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm convinced most of the anti-gun contingent in this thread have no idea what they're talking about in relation to the uptick in violence and hate crimes. They are the bubble liberals that people talked about post election. Except they're still in their bubble. For the rest of us? That thing's popped.

Just this week you have a white motherfucker killing a black child and reportedly saying "another piece of trash off the street". A child. Sure in a perfect world we dont need guns, but we currently live in a country where racism has become socially acceptable thanks to the government becoming right-leaning over night.

Personally it pisses me off that there are people coming in on their high horse trying to tell people that guns are bad and that theyre a part of the problem. Its like nah, piss off.

 

[akidnamededdy]

It's great to see people finally coming around and supporting the 2nd amendment.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Well there is the argument that more guns = more stupid deaths from accidents because people don't know how to lock their shit up.
But I wouldn't talk about it here, it's irrelevant.

And people dont want to support the 2nd amendment, but racists are making it necessary to look into it. That's not a good thing.

 

[Hyun Sai]

You're very unlikely to use a gun in self-defense

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-guns-self-defense-charleston-20150619-story.html

In fact you're more likely to be involved in a fatal misfire.

That is very true, and don't forget the impact on suicide of already fragile minority people, as it's proved most attempters act on impulse, and owning a gun is a big up of the "success" rate of those attempts.

But there were already tons of studies on the subject.

 

[Fuchsdh]

To protect oneself against the same kind of people that are forcing NYC to make a specialized hate crimes unit, obviously.
.

I get that. Doesn't mean those guns aren't going to be used far more often to kill their wives, shoot their kids, have their kids shoot other kids, have their kids shoot themselves. Everyone wants to pretend they aren't gonna' be the statistic, but the reality is having a gun is less safe for you than not. That's the reality. It was dumb when all those white guys were talking about stopping King Obama from taking their guns, it's still dumb now that the idiots are black and brown. Only people winning here are the gun companies.

If things got so bad in this country that it came down to a race war, the minorities are gonna' lose. So it's probably a better idea to focus on averting that kind of apocalypse rather than stroking our guns and feeling safe.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I get that. Doesn't mean those guns aren't going to be used far more often to kill their wives, shoot their kids, have their kids shoot other kids, have their kids shoot themselves. Everyone wants to pretend they aren't gonna' be the statistic, but the reality is having a gun is less safe for you than not.

Once again, store the guns safely and that statistic drops like a rock. No one here is advocating buying a gun and leaving it loaded on the fucking table.

That's the reality. It was dumb when all those white guys were talking about stopping King Obama from taking their guns, it's still dumb now that the idiots are black and brown. Only people winning here are the gun companies.

You serious with this shit? Fuck outta here with that. This is that arrogant nasty White condescending liberal shit people keep talking about. One example is people afraid of a situation that hasn't happened, isn't happening and has zero chance at happening. The other is reality. There's a reality of racial violence against minorities, Black people in particular in this country you just wanna casually glance past. Go read the fuck up before you snidely lump our concerns with a person worried about "Emperor Obama".

If things got so bad in this country that it came down to a race war, the minorities are gonna' lose. So it's probably a better idea to focus on averting that kind of apocalypse rather than stroking our guns and feeling safe.

So if you own a gun you can't focus on aversion because????? "Well you Blacks are out numbered and could never win best to just not think about it and hope no one tries to harm you or your family."

It's not about "feeling safe" it's about having the ability to respond to force with force. I'm not a pacifist.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

It was dumb when all those white guys were talking about stopping King Obama from taking their guns, it's still dumb now that the idiots are black and brown.

Idiots? How exactly? Race war?

What the fuck?

 

[Opto]

Just this week you have a white motherfucker killing a black child and reportedly saying "another piece of trash off the street". A child. Sure in a perfect world we dont need guns, but we currently live in a country where racism has become socially acceptable thanks to the government becoming right-leaning over night.

Personally it pisses me off that there are people coming in on their high horse trying to tell people that guns are bad and that theyre a part of the problem. Its like nah, piss off.

Gun proliferation lead to that white guy killing that kid. Also, the kid wouldn't be legally allowed to own a firearm, so I'm not sure how things would have played out different if his family had guns.

There's also my concern that in the past, whether men or boys of color had toy guns or legally owned guns, they were blown away by cops. I won't pretend to know what the immediate solution is though, but I don't think a gun is going to help.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Gun proliferation lead to that white guy killing that kid. Also, the kid wouldn't be legally allowed to own a firearm, so I'm not sure how things would have played out different if his family had guns.

It was against the law for that guy to own a gun also. But somehow he had one. We can and should look at ways to improve the laws. But telling minorities in a society awash w/ guns that they should just be the ever-suffering embodiment of humanity to me is silly. I've never been under any illusions about what most Americans would like or wouldn't mind being done to my family. So I keep a gun for that and general home defense.

There's also my concern that in the past, whether men or boys of color had toy guns or legally owned guns, they were blown away by cops. I won't pretend to know what the immediate solution is though, but I don't think a gun is going to help.

The problem there is the racist cops. Not Black people owning firearms. Deal with that.

 

[Rest]

So if you own a gun you can't focus on aversion because????? "Well you Blacks are out numbered and could never win best to just not think about it and hope no one tries to harm you or your family."

Idiots? How exactly? Race war?

What the fuck?

It might be time to let that fish go. I don't know what you guys have experienced, but "race war" isn't a term thrown around by people looking at issues of race in this country under a rational light. The only people who think that black people want to suddenly start killing white people in a "race war" are the KKK. The idea that a full on civil war would start in the US, with race as the central, defining and causal issue, is absurd. Talking about race war is a racist dog whistle in my experience.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Frankly every American should own a gun. You're going to need to protect yourself and your family when shit goes down.

It's just the unfortunate reality we live in.

 

[Opto]

It was against the law for that guy to own a gun also. But somehow he had one. We can and should look at ways to improve the laws. But telling minorities in a society awash w/ guns that they should just be the ever-suffering embodiment of humanity to me is silly. I've never been under any illusions about what most Americans would like or wouldn't mind being done to my family. So I keep a gun for that and general home defense.

The problem there is the racist cops. Not Black people owning firearms. Deal with that.

Buying a gun funds the push against stronger gun regulations you want. For anyone who owns a gun, it's a sense of defense despite all odds that it will be used that way.

Yea racist cops are the problem. I totally agree. But a gun isn't going to save you from them. And if I thought guns would keep you safe from cops, I'd absolutely say you should arm up.

 

[Tugatrix]

Frankly every American should own a gun. You're going to need to protect yourself and your family when shit goes down.

It's just the unfortunate reality we live in.

Do americans live in a warzone? Beside hunting, people doesn't need guns

 

[Rest]

Buying a gun funds the push against stronger gun regulations you want. For anyone who owns a gun, it's a sense of defense despite all odds that it will be used that way.

Yea racist cops are the problem. I totally agree. But a gun isn't going to save you from them. And if I thought guns would keep you safe from cops, I'd absolutely say you should arm up.

No one in this thread is talking about buying guns to ward off police.

 

[Broken Hope]

Do americans live in a warzone? Beside hunting, people doesn't need guns

Americans can't even go shopping without killing each other

http://dailym.ai/2gnskZH

It's fucking scary!

 

[O.v.e.rlord]

nvm! Gif didn't work!

 

[Jonm1010]

Do americans live in a warzone? Beside hunting, people doesn't need guns

Gun culture is real.

Americans, many of them, just have these Hollywood action hero notions in their head about how guns will protect them. It has been built up in many minds as the ultimate defense weapon even though evidence says it heightens risks.

Just listen to the hypotheticals they always talk about with why they need guns. It plays out like a cheesy movie half the time where the speaker is feeding a hero complex. Even normally intelligent people like Sam Harris play into it.

A hero complex that then leads to shit like the dumb redneck at Home Depot that tried to fire into a crowded parking lot because someone shop lifted some fucking hammers. Or the Waffle House man that followed a robber to the parking lot after he was fleeing to initiate a confrontation.

When reality is most attacks don't play out like a scripted Hollywood movie. Most break-ins aren't to kill you. Most attackers try to take you from the blindside if that is their intent. Murder rates are overall declining in most places. And most importantly, most murders happen between family and acquaintances. A gun in the home just plays into that.

 

[Opto]

No one in this thread is talking about buying guns to ward off police.

Sorry, I conflated racists and cops because, you know.

 

[Enzom21]

It was dumb when all those white guys were talking about stopping King Obama from taking their guns, it's still dumb now that the idiots are black and brown.

There was an increase of hate crimes because Obama was elected? I don't remember that, maybe you have different new sources than us "black and brown idiots."
False equivalencies are fun!

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Buying a gun funds the push against stronger gun regulations you want. For anyone who owns a gun, it's a sense of defense despite all odds that it will be used that way.

Yea racist cops are the problem. I totally agree. But a gun isn't going to save you from them. And if I thought guns would keep you safe from cops, I'd absolutely say you should arm up.

Who is saying Black people are getting guns because they need to stop cops? That's not the issue. Please read the thread in its entirety because I feel we've gone over these points and are just retreading the same discussions and points that have already been made. I took the time to lay out in great detail historical incidents of Black people needing firearms to protect themselves (typically from White aggression where the police turns a blind eye).

 

[rykomatsu]

Been researching rules and regulations for California for a minute now.

CA basically won't issue a concealed carry permit unless you can prove a specific reason your life is in danger - even then, issuance can be difficult.

In reality, the only time it will be useful is in your home if someone breaks in. Further, if you're in an area with regressive laws like San Jose (I think it passed), you're legally required to keep your firearm locked up and ammo stored separately even if you don't have kids in your household.

Beyond this, gun laws in CA are shit stupid feel good measures. What's being mentioned in the OP article will have minimal effect here unless everyone buying one starts becoming a felon deliberately.

 

[Alienfan]

But are you willing to go read the thread completely cause folks already explained why they looking into firearms given the situation.

Pepper spray is useless if there's more than one attacker.

What's making people who never owned a firearm suddenly feel the need to protect themselves? Maybe deal with that instead of insisting minorities shouldnt protect themselves.

Jumping to conclusions there. I don't think anyone should own a gun period.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Jumping to conclusions there. I don't think anyone should own a gun period.

Why are you in this thread then? To convince people not to buy guns?

 

[Rest]

Jumping to conclusions there. I don't think anyone should own a gun period.

Well that's very nice for you. How does that help anyone to deal with the reality which we find ourselves in, where unprovoked bigoted violence is on the rise and police forces don't help or protect minorities?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Jumping to conclusions there. I don't think anyone should own a gun period.

That's wonderful. Not all of us are so privileged to sit on our high horse on the subject. But I'll make you a deal! Go get the guns from the KKK, Alt-Right-Supremacists, Gangs, Other Criminals, Racist Cops, Racists in General, Military on American soil.

Do that then come wag a finger in the face of minorities telling them they shouldn't be armed for any reason.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Looking at the map again.

https://usaelectionmonitor.ushahidi.io/views/map

The highest is New York which has a number of 67 reported incidents.

Note: NYC has a restriction on concealed weapons. The people are at the mercy of bigots over there and have no ways to protect themselves. It's hard to get a gun in NYC for protection and it's no surprise it's the number with the highest reported incidents by triple.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Looking at the map again.

https://usaelectionmonitor.ushahidi.io/views/map

The highest is New York which has a number of 67 reported incidents.

Note: NYC has a restriction on concealed weapons. The people are at the mercy of bigots over there and have no ways to protect themselves. It's hard to get a gun in NYC for protection and it's no surprise it's the number with the highest reported incidents by triple.

Yup. And that's only reported. Not everyone goes to the cops when someone tries some dumb shit. Or fucks with them violently for the color of their skin or their religion or their sexual orientation.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yup. And that's only reported. Not everyone goes to the cops when someone tries some dumb shit. Or fucks with them violently for the color of their skin or their religion or their sexual orientation.

Not only does this entire thing expose anti-gun laws as the failure that they are, they create a whole new wedge between the democratic party and the minorities they say they speak for. What happens when the Democratic party continues to have an anti-gun stance during a time when the people the party claims to speak for feels like they need them?

 

[Opto]

Who is saying Black people are getting guns because they need to stop cops? That's not the issue. Please read the thread in its entirety because I feel we've gone over these points and are just retreading the same discussions and points that have already been made. I took the time to lay out in great detail historical incidents of Black people needing firearms to protect themselves (typically from White aggression where the police turns a blind eye).

I apologize for that conflation, but you brought up the police bombing in philadelphia. A gun won't save anyone from militarized police.

But you won't change my mind about how a wave of bulk purchase of firearms isn't going to directly fund more Trumps and neo-nazis. The NRA is way more white radical than back in the 60s.

If you could buy a gun without dropping the cash into the neo-nazi slushfund, I'd gladly pitch in to a fund to arm people of color, even despite the increased dangers you exposure yourself to that result from gun ownership.

 

[Tarydax]

I get that. Doesn't mean those guns aren't going to be used far more often to kill their wives, shoot their kids, have their kids shoot other kids, have their kids shoot themselves. Everyone wants to pretend they aren't gonna' be the statistic, but the reality is having a gun is less safe for you than not. That's the reality. It was dumb when all those white guys were talking about stopping King Obama from taking their guns, it's still dumb now that the idiots are black and brown. Only people winning here are the gun companies.

Those "idiots" who are black and brown have historically been victims of violent actions by white people (terrorists, lynch mobs, or state-sanctioned organizations) since the founding of the country. You can't compare their very real fears to the irrational fear that liberals are going to declare martial law and take everybody's guns. One of these things is based in reality, the other is not. One of these things has actually happened before (and still happens), and the other never has or will.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Those "idiots" who are black and brown have historically been victims of violent actions by white people (terrorists, lynch mobs, or state-sanctioned organizations) since the founding of the country. You can't compare their very real fears to the irrational fear that liberals are going to declare martial law and take everybody's guns. One of these things is based in reality, the other is not. One of these things has actually happened before (and still happens), and the other never has or will.

Exactly.

That's idiotic. We all know how easy it is to smuggle guns across borders and how many guns are already on the streets now. That only means that gun laws are not ubiquitous enough and not strict enough to get a handle on the supply.

True.

But now it is interesting that the NRA corporation smells gold, and will further market and make use of this. Growth is growth.

 

[Laiza]

Not only does this entire thing expose anti-gun laws as the failure that they are[...]

That's idiotic. We all know how easy it is to smuggle guns across borders and how many guns are already on the streets now. That only means that gun laws are not ubiquitous enough and not strict enough to get a handle on the supply.

But okay, go ahead and buy a killing device that is far more likely to kill yourself or a loved one if you feel it really makes you safe. Take advantage of things while the laws are so lax. But all the same, I really, really hope you folks push for restrictions on second amendment rights right alongside those purchases, because eventually we're really going to need to do that, or else we're just leaving the country in the hands of the NRA, and that is a pretty fucking dire scenario to leave the country in.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I get that. Doesn't mean those guns aren't going to be used far more often to kill their wives, shoot their kids, have their kids shoot other kids, have their kids shoot themselves. Everyone wants to pretend they aren't gonna' be the statistic, but the reality is having a gun is less safe for you than not. That's the reality. It was dumb when all those white guys were talking about stopping King Obama from taking their guns, it's still dumb now that the idiots are black and brown. Only people winning here are the gun companies.

If things got so bad in this country that it came down to a race war, the minorities are gonna' lose. So it's probably a better idea to focus on averting that kind of apocalypse rather than stroking our guns and feeling safe.

Finally dropped all pretense huh

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

That's idiotic. We all know how easy it is to smuggle guns across borders and how many guns are already on the streets now. That only means that gun laws are not ubiquitous enough and not strict enough to get a handle on the supply.

But okay, go ahead and buy a killing device that is far more likely to kill yourself or a loved one if you feel it really makes you safe. Take advantage of things while the laws are so lax. But all the same, I really, really hope you folks push for restrictions on second amendment rights right alongside those purchases, because eventually we're really going to need to do that, or else we're just leaving the country in the hands of the NRA, and that is a pretty fucking dire scenario to leave the country in.

If you read the Atlantic article I posted you'd know that gun ownership results in lower rates of certain crime if criminals have to fear the chance the general populace had a gun. In America, robbers rarely if ever rob a house while people are at home because they don't want to risk that you are packing. By the same takeaway, if racists and bigots know more minorities have guns on them, they will think twice before they start something. So the solution may actually be more guns. They're not going anywhere and there's more guns in America than there are people now anyways. And in a place like California you are a sitting duck because concealed carry is much, much harder - an in many cases impossible - to obtain and defend yourself if need be. Anti-gun laws in America serve no purpose other than make things harder for the populace if something like this happens and there's so many guns in America it would be flat out moronic to think you could possibly get rid of them all at this point.

 

[Vicetrailia]

If you read the Atlantic article I posted you'd know that gun ownership results in lower rates of certain crime if criminals have to fear the chance the general populace had a gun. In America, robbers rarely if ever rob a house while people are at home because they don't want to risk that you are packing. By the same takeaway, if racists and bigots know more minorities have guns on them, they will think twice before they start something. So the solution may actually be more guns. They're not going anywhere and there's more guns in America than there are people now anyways. And in a place like California you are a sitting duck because concealed carry is much, much harder - an in many cases impossible - to obtain and defend yourself if need be. Anti-gun laws in America serve no purpose other than make things harder for the populace if something like this happens and there's so many guns in America it would be flat out moronic to think you could possibly get rid of them all at this point.

This is basically the arguments that the NRA use, except from a slightly different angle. So now the statistics that people have been peddling come into play. It's an old argument that's been done to death.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

This is basically the arguments that the NRA use, except from a slightly different angle. So now the statistics that people have been peddling come into play. It's an old argument that's been done to death.

Maybe some of their rhetoric no matter how misguided has some - emphasis on some - truth to it?