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[maquiladora]

How is the reaction to white people owning a lot of guns "we need more strict gun legislation" but minorities buying more "good"?? Pretty sure less guns overall is good unless what you want is more deadly violence.

Because it's the minorities who are being oppressed and murdered. It's the minorities who's lives will be at risk even more under a Trump regime.

Less guns overall would be great in an ideal world. But things are moving in a direction that is far from ideal.

 

[Jokab]

Because it's the minorities who are being oppressed and murdered. It's the minorities who's lives will be at risk even more under a Trump regime.

Less guns overall would be great in an ideal world. But things are moving in a direction that is far from ideal.

See my post after the one you quoted. Minorities aren't being murdered any more than any other race.

 

[Bedlam]

Why yes, if I was a <3% minority in Germany I would also be weary of trying to defend myself. You know, given context and history. The majority is armed simply by being the majority. The state/status quo is enough to protect them.

That's quite a snarky non-answer that doesn't refute the fact that gun culture has gotten completely out of hand in the USA whereas it is not nearly as ingrained in European societies.

 

[Henkka]

I'm not sure you're using statistics that are relevant. Crime propagates with poverty. Our country has forced a larger percentage of its minority members into harsher conditions. Thus of course the statistics will show increased violence among those stricken by poverty. Furthermore whites get to benefit from a state to protect them. I can walk the streets at night and feel safe without a gun solely on the knowledge that I know that if I were to be attacked then I would matter to the police. Black and other minority Americans do not have the same benefit. If I didn't feel I was protected by the police then I would maybe consider a firearm for defense (assuming I weren't also my current pacifist self).

Your pale skin won't give the cops wings to make it where you're being attacked in 5 seconds.

Your response to the statistics posted doesn't make sense, either. They weren't talking about black crime statistics and how that relates to poverty. They were talking about how whites shooting blacks is rare in the US. Homicides are usually white on white or black on black.

 

[Vicetrailia]

But is this really true? White on black (and other minorities too) seems to be very very low compard to for example white on white. Whites aren't really killing blacks, so why do blacks need guns in response to whites having guns? In the statistics below white on black homicide amount to roughly 8,8% of victims from whites, while blacks is 13,3% of US population. What am I missing here? I just don't think arming yourself will make you any safer at all.

They're buying on reaction to super racist catalysts in Trump, his cabinet 5, hate crime spurs, and all those guided by racist rhetoric who feel empowred to take action.

So statistics like this aren't useful right now.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

That's quite a snarky non-answer that doesn't refute the fact that gun culture has gotten completely out of hand in the USA whereas it is not nearly as ingrained in European societies.

I didn't claim it refuted it. My claim is you're silly to apply the context of your country to this one. I am again for the total abolishment of firearms. But until that happens I support minority rights to own them so long as the majority gets to. Not all of America is like your European utopia.

Your pale skin won't give the cops wings to make it where you're being attacked in 5 seconds.

My white skin coupled with my middle-class status guarantees that police will take a crime against me seriously. And by that fact alone it reduces the chance of me being attacked. Given the choice between me and a minority member of this country a criminal is more apt to choose the crime less likely to be pursued by police.

 

[Bedlam]

I didn't claim it refuted it. My claim is you're silly to apply the context of your country to this one. I am again for the total abolishment of firearms. But until that happens I support minority rights to own them so long as the majority gets to. Not all of America is like your European utopia.

We have our problems as well obviously but I'm really glad guns is not one of them.

So we are on the same page then. What I am saying is, however, that we shouldn't be cheering that minorities are finally stocking up on guns in the USA, we should be sad that it has come to this.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

What I am saying is, however, that we shouldn't be cheering that minorities are finally stocking up on guns in the USA, we should be sad that it has come to this.

Again I don't think anyone is cheering more guns being bought. At least I'm not. It's more a show of support to those who are pursuing their rights. As long as white people can own guns then so must minorities have that right. The whole gun violence/culture thing is an issue separate of this one in my head that needs to be addressed for all of Americans, rather than focused on when minority citizens are taking advantage of their rights.

 

[mechashiva]

Good.

Last time I checked guns were not just for White people.

Open carry on the other hand...

 

[Jokab]

Again I don't think anyone is cheering more guns being bought. At least I'm not. It's more a show of support to those who are pursuing their rights. As long as white people can own guns then so must minorities have that right. The whole gun violence/culture thing is an issue separate of this one in my head that needs to be addressed for all of Americans, rather than focused on when minority citizens are taking advantage of their rights.

There is constant discussion on this forum about stricter gun control, not only in the context of minorities acquiring them. The disconnect is that when gun violence and prevalence of guns among white americans is discussed the tone is almost always against whites owning too many guns (as it should be), but when minorities increasingly buy guns the reaction is "Good", as is evident on the first page of this thread.

 

[Blader]

Pretty sad all around, but after this country just elected a white nationalist as president, I can't blame anyone for feeling afraid.

 

[Bgamer90]

But is this really true? White on black (and other minorities too) seems to be very very low compard to for example white on white. Whites aren't really killing blacks, so why do blacks need guns in response to whites having guns? In the statistics below white on black homicide amount to roughly 8,8% of victims from whites, while blacks is 13,3% of US population. What am I missing here? I just don't think arming yourself will make you any safer at all.

Source (2015 stats)

Nice pre-"Trump is president get out of my country or I'll hurt you" stats.

 

[Jokab]

Nice pre-"Trump is president get out of my country" stats.

I go by the statistics that exist as of this moment. If you have newer statistics, then feel free to share them.

 

[Bgamer90]

I go by the statistics that exist as of this moment. If you have newer statistics, then feel free to share them.

You are comepletly missing the point. Hate crimes have gone up at a rapid pace in just these past two weeks. Minorities are afraid that they may be in situations in which their life is at risk simply due to traits they can't control (i.e.: Where they or their parents were born, their skin color, etc.). The post you replied to stated that this is "in defense" and it obviously is. People are very scared right now.

Using stats from before November 2016 (and especially months/years earlier) as a response to more people buying guns NOW is removing the elephant in the room.

 

[Dali]

Fear in effect, NRA laughing all the way to the bank.

WHY would any of the people itt who have gone their entire life without considering gun ownership give to the nra? The problem remains the nra. The fact that they have blocked stricter gun regulation and created an atmosphere where people feel the need to arm themselves because assholes who already had guns are now emboldened means I can own a gun and still want them to fuck right off.

I can own a gun and unlike a gun nut be more than happy for legislation to pass making them mostly illegal or strictly regulated.

 

[FPS murderer]

Other options. Thoughts?

Walther PPS. Good CCW.

 

[DustyVonEric]

Am I alone in thinking as a minorty I am losing my mind? This Trump shit is making me uneasy?

Nope. I hate guns, but I need to protect my family. And I'm in a red state too.

So I think I may need to make the tough choice and legally purchase one, get the proper training, and pray I never have to use it.

Lord, this sucks. But racists are more bold now.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Nope. I hate guns, but I need to protect my family. And I'm in a red state too.

So I think I may need to make the tough choice and legally purchase one, get the proper training, and pray I never have to use it.

Lord, this sucks. But racists are more bold now.

That's really all there is to it. You don't have to fetishize the thing. Or oppose smarter, better gun laws. But protect your family.

 

[entremet]

I'm a die hard liberal, but I never understand the ban guns crowd of our movement.

Sensible gun control and checks, yes.

But banning guns altogether is just plain unrealistic.

I don't own guns myself since it's a massive pain in the ass where I live--NYC.

But if were to move to a more gun friendly state I'd be interested. Mostly for hobby shooting and collecting not personal defense.

As a note, Hillary hard line gun stance didn't help her in counties that Obama carried. Hillary's anti firearm message was much stronger than Obama's.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Honestly, if you aren't in this situation, are white/straight/cis, are in another country, I don't want to read a lick about what you say if it's some wack fucking judgement. You think being European makes you special? You expect to just sit here and take this and be a sitting duck in the wake of rising hate crime and pro-white sentiment in my nations capitol? You can fuck right off with that mess. I don't want to kill anyone but if I need to protect myself in a practical manner, then so be it. I will not be a sitting duck. I will survive. And surviving means buying a pistol, getting training, and learning how to stop a threat if need be.

Read this thread before you dare judge us and applying a "but gaf judged white people for buying guns in droves after certain events" makes you look like an utter fool with your horrific false equivalences. Yet somehow us American's are the ones lacking critical thinking.

I think your critique falls on blind eyes. Not only is it unrealistic, it's ultimately insulting. I fully plan on arming myself and telling each and every person of color and LGBT person I know to personally strap up. If that bothers your sensibilities, time to find a new forum because this here is the new normal until our very LEGAL right to get armed is stripped away.

 

[Akronis]

Honestly, if you aren't in this situation, are white/straight/cis, are in another country, I don't want to read a lick about what you say if it's some wack fucking judgement. You think being European makes you special? You expect to just sit here and take this and be a sitting duck in the wake of rising hate crime and pro-white sentiment in my nations capitol? You can fuck right off with that mess. I don't want to kill anyone but if I need to protect myself in a practical manner, then so be it. I will not be a sitting duck. I will survive. And surviving means buying a pistol, getting training, and learning how to stop a threat if need be.

Read this thread before you dare judge us and applying a "but gaf judged white people for buying guns in droves after certain events" makes you look like an utter fool with your horrific false equivalences. Yet somehow us American's are the ones lacking critical thinking.

I think your critique falls on blind eyes. Not only is it unrealistic, it's ultimately insulting. I fully plan on arming myself and telling each and every person of color and LGBT person I know to personally strap up. If that bothers your sensibilities, time to find a new forum because this here is the new normal until our very LEGAL right to get armed is stripped away.

Preach

 

[Frozenprince]

Honestly, if you aren't in this situation, are white/straight/cis, are in another country, I don't want to read a lick about what you say if it's some wack fucking judgement. You think being European makes you special? You expect to just sit here and take this and be a sitting duck in the wake of rising hate crime and pro-white sentiment in my nations capitol? You can fuck right off with that mess. I don't want to kill anyone but if I need to protect myself in a practical manner, then so be it. I will not be a sitting duck. I will survive. And surviving means buying a pistol, getting training, and learning how to stop a threat if need be.

Read this thread before you dare judge us and applying a "but gaf judged white people for buying guns in droves after certain events" makes you look like an utter fool with your horrific false equivalences. Yet somehow us American's are the ones lacking critical thinking.

I think your critique falls on blind eyes. Not only is it unrealistic, it's ultimately insulting. I fully plan on arming myself and telling each and every person of color and LGBT person I know to personally strap up. If that bothers your sensibilities, time to find a new forum because this here is the new normal until our very LEGAL right to get armed is stripped away.

And let the people say Amen.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Walther PPS. Good CCW.

Nice suggestion. I'm liking the Shield more but will try it at the shop.

Shield looks like a good self defense gun.

http://youtu.be/aWWSpVn7NT8

 

[Yoshi]

Honestly, if you aren't in this situation, are white/straight/cis, are in another country, I don't want to read a lick about what you say if it's some wack fucking judgement. You think being European makes you special? You expect to just sit here and take this and be a sitting duck in the wake of rising hate crime and pro-white sentiment in my nations capitol? You can fuck right off with that mess. I don't want to kill anyone but if I need to protect myself in a practical manner, then so be it. I will not be a sitting duck. I will survive. And surviving means buying a pistol, getting training, and learning how to stop a threat if need be.

Read this thread before you dare judge us and applying a "but gaf judged white people for buying guns in droves after certain events" makes you look like an utter fool with your horrific false equivalences. Yet somehow us American's are the ones lacking critical thinking.

I think your critique falls on blind eyes. Not only is it unrealistic, it's ultimately insulting. I fully plan on arming myself and telling each and every person of color and LGBT person I know to personally strap up. If that bothers your sensibilities, time to find a new forum because this here is the new normal until our very LEGAL right to get armed is stripped away.

It is your legal right to arm yourself; though I am of the opinion that it should not be, this much certainly will not change under a republican president. The problem with gun ownership is the same for all people that do not require firearms for their job (policemen, soldiers, foresters): It escalates violence, it increases the danger of armed rampages and it is a severe danger for tragedies.

Contrasting the liklihood that a firearm really saves your life to the likelihood that it escalates violence and causes people's death yields a devastating result. Moreover, most violent conflicts arise within peer groups, so if black people, particularly those in semi-ghettoised areas, arm up significantly, I expect a significant rise in black people dieing from firearms as well. There might be an uprise in far-right motivated hate crimes, but it stands to question how much this will be a constant throughout Trump's term - I'd suspect it is a very momentary thing and one that is additionally propelled by intense reportings about that. However, an additional increase in weapon bearers is a long-term plague for society.

I cannot and will not approve of your actions in that regard and I also don't think that this is rational, but of course it is your legal right to do so. If you feel threatened I would suggest taking self-defense courses though. With firearms, either you are the one escalating the level of violence yourself, or you are already in a situation where people are pointing a gun at you, which is not the best situation to be in to draw your own one.

 

[Vicetrailia]

It is your legal right to arm yourself; though I am of the opinion that it should not be, this much certainly will not change under a republican president. The problem with gun ownership is the same for all people that do not require firearms for their job (policemen, soldiers, foresters): It escalates violence, it increases the danger of armed rampages and it is a severe danger for tragedies.

Contrasting the liklihood that a firearm really saves your life to the likelihood that it escalates violence and causes people's death yields a devastating result. Moreover, most violent conflicts arise within peer groups, so if black people, particularly those in semi-ghettoised areas, arm up significantly, I expect a significant rise in black people dieing from firearms as well. There might be an uprise in far-right motivated hate crimes, but it stands to question how much this will be a constant throughout Trump's term - I'd suspect it is a very momentary thing and one that is additionally propelled by intense reportings about that. However, an additional increase in weapon bearers is a long-term plague for society.

I cannot and will not approve of your actions in that regard and I also don't think that this is rational, but of course it is your legal right to do so. If you feel threatened I would suggest taking self-defense courses though. With firearms, either you are the one escalating the level of violence yourself, or you are already in a situation where people are pointing a gun at you, which is not the best situation to be in to draw your own one.

We get all of that stuff. But we're talking about a reaction to white supremacy exploding, and already providing a direct threat to our survival. We're already protesting, donating, gaining knowledge and getting politically active mind you. You have the known, and then the unknown elements on a federal level. Of course people are paranoid. But it's a reaction.

I may be ignorant, but I have no plans to buy a gun, agree with most of what you wrote above, but will not be finger wagging until it actually gets irrational.

Enduring racism during the campaign was one thing, but now he's president elect, and racism has exploded.

 

[A Link to the Past]

At this point, I can only hope that we move to smart guns.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Is it worth looking into the National African American Gun Association?

http://www.naaga.co

 

[Rest]

But is this really true? White on black (and other minorities too) seems to be very very low compard to for example white on white. Whites aren't really killing blacks, so why do blacks need guns in response to whites having guns? In the statistics below white on black homicide amount to roughly 8,8% of victims from whites, while blacks is 13,3% of US population. What am I missing here? I just don't think arming yourself will make you any safer at all.

Source (2015 stats)

Did you miss the news reports of an uptick in crimes perpetrated against minorities by whites after the election of Trump? Did you miss the white supremacists and racists Trump is putting in his cabinet? Did you miss that the House and Senate are controlled by Republicans, a party which of late holds a socially regressive platform (keep in mind socially regressive in this country means "fuck brown people")? Did you miss Congress breaking the law and refusing to accept Obama's Supreme Court picks to ensure that they get to load the highest court in the land, the last line of protection for people against discriminatory laws, with regressives if they won the next presidential campaign?

Have you been living under a rock? Did you not see these things happening on the news? Did you ignore them? Or is getting rid of guns such an important issue to you that you don't care about the real dangers minorities are facing right now, and think that even in the face of an oppressive government people shouldn't protect themselves if protecting themselves means buying, owning, possessing or using guns when necessary?

 

[commedieu]

Fear in effect, NRA laughing all the way to the bank.

When do they not laugh all the way to the bank? Their business is death and guns.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Anyone have any legitimate rebuttals to the general anti-gun ownership arguments people like to use? Like the statistics, the idea that guns will just lead to more violence? I'd like to read some that aren't written by insane conservatives worried the guvment is gonna take their guns. I know one sides argument. I've been hearing anti-gun rhetoric most of my life. Time to hear the other side.

 

[Rest]

My white skin coupled with my middle-class status guarantees that police will take a crime against me seriously. And by that fact alone it reduces the chance of me being attacked. Given the choice between me and a minority member of this country a criminal is more apt to choose the crime less likely to be pursued by police.

This is not bullshit. When a female child between the age of 10 and 14 goes missing, the color of her skin defines how the police react. If she's brown or black the police are significantly more likely to label her a runaway and not investigate further. If she's white, especially if she has blonde hair, she'll be on the local news that night and probably the national news by the end of the week.

Anybody in doubt should read the rest of this thread. There have been a number of links posted which will illuminate the way minorities are treated in this country. Chances are the police won't help us if we're victims crime. What's worse, they'll treat us like criminals when we've done nothing wrong. The government in this country does not protect people who are not white, and with this new administration, legislature and (most likely) judiciary it's going to be worse than simple lack of protection.

Is it worth looking into the National African American Gun Association?

http://www.naaga.co

I've been interested, the site has links to good information, but besides a mission statement I don't see anything especially practical about the organization its self. There's not list of local chapters or information about how one would get involved in the activism they say they want to perpetuate. They do have a list of other organizations and clubs, so maybe there's more information if you seek out something local among those...

 

[HariKari]

Anyone have any legitimate rebuttals to the general anti-gun ownership arguments people like to use? Like the statistics, the idea that guns will just lead to more violence? I'd like to read some that aren't written by insane conservatives worried the guvment is gonna take their guns. I know one sides argument. I've been hearing anti-gun rhetoric most of my life. Time to hear the other side.

The best argument against guns as the sole cause of everything is the violent crime rate in this country since the 90s. It has been cut in half with no real meaningful gun control measures.

 

[theignoramus]

See my post after the one you quoted. Minorities aren't being murdered any more than any other race.

Meet Will Sims.

He was a 28 year old musician who worked at Best Buy. He played five instruments. Last week, on the 16th, he was robbed, beaten, then shot to death (as he tried to crawl away) by three White supremacists. It happened in the San Francisco Bay area, a region thats supposed to be a liberal haven.
Two of the three men that lynched him are still on the loose. The police say theyre armed & dangerous.

Tell us more about how Black folks have nothing to fear because of FBI murder stats (which dont even have anything to do with hate crimes like assault & intimidation)

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Welp I am going to get a gun.

 

[spekkeh]

Sad thing is that this seems like a win-win-win for the American far right.

More gun sales.
More fear.
More offhand justification for police militarization and violence.

 

[Henkka]

Anyone have any legitimate rebuttals to the general anti-gun ownership arguments people like to use? Like the statistics, the idea that guns will just lead to more violence? I'd like to read some that aren't written by insane conservatives worried the guvment is gonna take their guns. I know one sides argument. I've been hearing anti-gun rhetoric most of my life. Time to hear the other side.

I like Sam Harris' take on it. Of course, he's a liberal atheist type, but also a gun owner.

https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DYpaLgWIo (The gun talk starts at about 12 min)

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I like Sam Harris' take on it. Of course, he's a liberal atheist type, but also a gun owner.

https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DYpaLgWIo (The gun talk starts at about 12 min)

Like most gun owners, I understand the ethical importance of guns and cannot honestly wish for a world without them. I suspect that sentiment will shock many readers. Wouldn’t any decent person wish for a world without guns? In my view, only someone who doesn’t understand violence could wish for such a world. A world without guns is one in which the most aggressive men can do more or less anything they want. It is a world in which a man with a knife can rape and murder a woman in the presence of a dozen witnesses, and none will find the courage to intervene. There have been cases of prison guards (who generally do not carry guns) helplessly standing by as one of their own was stabbed to death by a lone prisoner armed with an improvised blade. The hesitation of bystanders in these situations makes perfect sense—and “diffusion of responsibility” has little to do with it. The fantasies of many martial artists aside, to go unarmed against a person with a knife is to put oneself in very real peril, regardless of one’s training. The same can be said of attacks involving multiple assailants. A world without guns is a world in which no man, not even a member of Seal Team Six, can reasonably expect to prevail over more than one determined attacker at a time. A world without guns, therefore, is one in which the advantages of youth, size, strength, aggression, and sheer numbers are almost always decisive. Who could be nostalgic for such a world?

Don't normally like Harris even if we share so many common things (atheist, jiu jitsu practioners, meditation practice;etc) but he's spot on. I guess I have another thing in common with him now.

However, this quote makes me question whether I should go ccw. But I'm a woman so I think I should. I just don't know.

Carrying a gun in public, however, entails even greater responsibility than keeping one at home, and in most states the laws reflect this. Like many gun-control advocates, I have serious concerns about letting ordinary citizens walk around armed.[2] Ordinary altercations can become needlessly deadly in the presence of a weapon. A scuffle that exposes a gun in a person’s waistband, for instance, can quickly become a fight to the death—where the first person to get his hands on the weapon may feel justified using it in “self-defense.” Most people seem unaware that knives present a similar liability. According to Gallup, 16 percent of American men carry knives for personal protection. I am quite sure that most of those men have not thought through the legal, ethical, and game-theoretical implications of drawing a blade in a moment of conflict. It is true that brandishing a weapon (whether a gun or a knife) sometimes preempts further violence. But, emotions being what they are, it often doesn’t—and the owner of the weapon can find himself resorting to deadly force in a circumstance that would not otherwise have called for it.

 

[AbsolutBro]

WHY would any of the people itt who have gone their entire life without considering gun ownership give to the nra?

I mean, they wouldn't. But as gun sales go up, so too do corporate donations to the NRA from gun manufacturers (who basically run the NRA now anyway).

That said, I'm a gun owner who has not and will not join the NRA, so I agree with you in principal at least.

 

[HariKari]

However, this quote makes me question whether I should go ccw. But I'm a woman so I think I should. I just don't know.

You need to develop proficiency and familiarity with your gun and how to shoot it. You also need to be familiar with the laws. And, most importantly, you need to show good judgment. Pulling out a concealed weapon is the very last option you have. You have to demonstrate a real risk to your personal safety or the safety of others or else you will be in deep shit.

As Sam Harris points out, there's really no substitute for being armed yourself. Waiting for the police to arrive is not a realistic option in most cases.

I would start by owning a firearm and then taking classes, and then only going for the CCW and carrying in public when you are very familiar with the entire thing.

 

[Htown]

I cannot and will not approve of your actions in that regard and I also don't think that this is rational, but of course it is your legal right to do so

Who asked you?

 

[Jonm1010]

They're buying on reaction to super racist catalysts in Trump, his cabinet 5, hate crime spurs, and all those guided by racist rhetoric who feel empowred to take action.

So statistics like this aren't useful right now.

This is exactly when statistics like that are useful.

If the rationale is safety and self defense, looking at what the data says are your real risk factors, including the increased risk just brought on by gun ownership seems pretty pertinent.

Otherwise you are just making decisions on emotion and unsubstantiated thought experiments.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Who asked you?

This. I don't have the complexion for the protection.

 

[Jonm1010]

The best argument against guns as the sole cause of everything is the violent crime rate in this country since the 90s. It has been cut in half with no real meaningful gun control measures.

That's not really proving anything positive toward guns.

And no one who has looked at the material can come away thinking guns are the sole cause of anything. That's pushing back on an argument no one is making.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It is your legal right to arm yourself; though I am of the opinion that it should not be, this much certainly will not change under a republican president. The problem with gun ownership is the same for all people that do not require firearms for their job (policemen, soldiers, foresters): It escalates violence, it increases the danger of armed rampages and it is a severe danger for tragedies.

Contrasting the liklihood that a firearm really saves your life to the likelihood that it escalates violence and causes people's death yields a devastating result. Moreover, most violent conflicts arise within peer groups, so if black people, particularly those in semi-ghettoised areas, arm up significantly, I expect a significant rise in black people dieing from firearms as well. There might be an uprise in far-right motivated hate crimes, but it stands to question how much this will be a constant throughout Trump's term - I'd suspect it is a very momentary thing and one that is additionally propelled by intense reportings about that. However, an additional increase in weapon bearers is a long-term plague for society.

I cannot and will not approve of your actions in that regard and I also don't think that this is rational, but of course it is your legal right to do so. If you feel threatened I would suggest taking self-defense courses though. With firearms, either you are the one escalating the level of violence yourself, or you are already in a situation where people are pointing a gun at you, which is not the best situation to be in to draw your own one.

America is a country where there are tons and tons of guns. If 1/3 of the population owns guns, I see no actual argument as to why other citizens shouldn't. Yeah ideally, you have a society with strict gun control and they are tools of privilege for specific purposes but America isn't that place and pretending it is is just naive.

I live in Canada, it's nice to not worry about some dude with a gun going ape shit or even just guns being a part of regular life. But America just elected a clear racist ass motherfucker as president and all the racists are coming out of the wood works. If minorities who never felt the need to own a gun are now moving towards that then the failure is on the state and it's citizens for not creating an environment of safety for it's oppressed people, it's not on fucking minorities to once again disregard their own feeling of safety for the majority.

You know how fucking stupid that is?

 

[Opto]

You'd think they'd be a niche market for a non-NRA affiliated gun manufacturer

 

[Malleymal]

Im looking to buy a gun over he next month or two. As a black male, I feel it is necessary although I never wanted to own. What is the best way to go about this.

 

[Jonm1010]

America is a country where there are tons and tons of guns. If 1/3 of the population owns guns, I see no actual argument as to why other citizens shouldn't. Yeah ideally, you have a society with strict gun control and they are tools of privilege for specific purposes but America isn't that place and pretending it is is just naive.

I live in Canada, it's nice to not worry about some dude with a gun going ape shit or even just guns being a part of regular life. But America just elected a clear racist ass motherfucker as president and all the racists are coming out of the wood works. If minorities who never felt the need to own a gun are now moving towards that then the failure is on the state and it's citizens for not creating an environment of safety for it's oppressed people, it's not on fucking minorities to once again disregard their own feeling of safety for the majority.

You know how fucking stupid that is?

I think the argument is not to disregard safety but is this really improving safety if adapted personally and on a broad scale?

The increased risk factors associated with personal and broad gun ownership are undeniable.

The increase in hate crimes are as well.

But is the elevation of risk from hate crime enough to offset the elevated risk of gun ownership personally and from the consequences of community escalation of gun ownership and carrying?

That is where the arguments seem to be taking place.

 

[Jonm1010]

I like Sam Harris' take on it. Of course, he's a liberal atheist type, but also a gun owner.

https://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0DYpaLgWIo (The gun talk starts at about 12 min)

Sam Harris should stick to atheism arguments.

He frames civil society like it's some fucking Mad Max caricature and uses extreme hypotheticals to justify his choices. Everyone armed just means deadlier encounters and elevating risk for all the other issues surrounding guns: accident, suicide, assault. It's the paradox of thrift of gun ownership.

It has happened, but it is a lot harder to mass kill in a school or a club with a knife.

By all means get a gun if you determine your personal situation, when reasoning through all the costs and benefits, makes you fill you need it, but this is some silly shit lol.

 

[SilentRob]

Edit: Eh. This is depressing me too much, I'll just try to stay clear.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I think the argument is not to disregard safety but is this really improving safety if adapted personally and on a broad scale?

The increased risk factors associated with personal and broad gun ownership are undeniable.

The increase in hate crimes are as well.

But is the elevation of risk from hate crime enough to offset the elevated risk of gun ownership personally and from the consequences of community escalation of gun ownership and carrying?

That is where the arguments seem to be taking place.

I think gun ownership as a whole is entirely stupid especially in the fashion the US adopts it. But that's the reality of their country so to look at this as a bunch of hypotheticals and facts doesn't serve any purpose. These people have decided to start owning guns directly in response to a specific event.

You can't come out here and be like "hey with all the other major issues with owning guns you should not do that" while the white supremacists and the entirely racist president are just waiting to shit on your way of life. Do you know how condescending and tone death that is?

There is no actual argument to be had. People who had no desire to own a ggun now feel like they need it because of the election. They aren't buying it based on stats, they are buying based on feelings. And the 1/3rd of Americans that own guns already bought them based on that stupid reasoning too. Direct your criticism towards them.