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Halo 4 |OT| Spartans Never Die

F

Fuchsdh

Member
IHaveIce said:
The center of this map (Onyx) is much more closed than Midship?

Never had a real problem on it( except when it was broken)


CTF is also great on this one
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I dunno. When we were testing it with Tashi I liked it a lot, and really hated Crucifex, which I haven't had many issues with in matchmaking (people don't gravitate towards the center as much as I thought.)

Much bigger fan of the Narrows-styled map (Elevation?) Although I think the bases are a bit too complicated path-wise and the snipers need to be moved to a location not overlooking the other team's flag. I've had five games thus far where the enemy grabs our sniper and then just shoots any attempt to grab their flag.
 
W

willow ve

Member
Fuchsdh said:
I've been having a hard time with the Midship-inspired map Onyx. Just seems like there are too many angles on you no matter where you are; I'm always getting pinged from two different directions even when I'm trying to stay on the edges of the map. I imagine a 4-shot BR is going to make that even worse. Midship still had "rooms" and a lot more in the center of the map which I think helped avoid that.
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I think the 4 shot BR will actually improve the map. The DMR right now is the only way to play Onyx. With aim assist and bullet magnetism Onyx is big enough to give the DMR an edge. The weapon balance will make these maps play a lot differently.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
willow ve said:
I think the 4 shot BR will actually improve the map. The DMR right now is the only way to play Onyx. With aim assist and bullet magnetism Onyx is big enough to give the DMR an edge. The weapon balance will make these maps play a lot differently.
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Fair enough. I found a carbine more useful in getting off shots but the DMRs on upper level do make them good pinging spots.
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
While you guys are correct on radar being a staple, so was no radar. Also, Ozzy it's a crutch that limits players from breaking out of their comfort zones into becoming better players overall. A player grown without radar will perform better in radar than a player grown with radar playing without radar, for example.
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Dude, I shed tears.

Another consideration is the use of the rest of the game cues that you are forced to pay attention to. Without radar, actually LISTENING to what's going on is hugely important. Master Chief is a fatass and you can hear him coming every time. You can hear where explosions are going off, where gunfire is, where ordnances come down, etc. In Reach, you didn't need hit-markers for grenades, because if they hit, the spartan would make a sound of pain.

Honestly, radar wouldn't be so much of an issue if it wasn't so damn detailed. Giving enemy location, elevation, ordnance, vehicles, prom vision pings, etc. There's just so much going on that, other than aiming, you don't need to look elsewhere really.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Republic!!!!! I can probably get some games in right after work. Also recording a podcast today so that will take up quite some time.
 
U

u4iX

Member
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
While you guys are correct on radar being a staple, so was no radar. Also, Ozzy it's a crutch that limits players from breaking out of their comfort zones into becoming better players overall. A player grown without radar will perform better in radar than a player grown with radar playing without radar, for example.
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Like sumo squats.
 
G

Gabotron ES

Member
CARRYING FLAG?

Jyam2eR.jpg
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C

Coux

Neo Member
Gabotron ES said:
modders are saving halo, how things have changed.
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I still think the best ideas come from the community, in terms of customs. Halo's flexibility has always been it's greatest strength. Sad that people have to resort to modding to create some of that content now.
 
G

Gabotron ES

Member
Coux said:
I still think the best ideas come from the community, in terms of customs. Halo's flexibility has always been it's greatest strength. Sad that people have to resort to modding to create some of that content now.
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hopefully 343 realized this and change their mind about this with H5, having less customizations options than Reach is just stupid.
 
C

Coux

Neo Member
Gabotron ES said:
hopefully 343 realized this and change their mind about this with H5, having less customizations options than Reach is just stupid.
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Completely agree. I think it's been a learning experience for them. The community is pretty damn creative. To not leverage that is a big mistake. It adds so much longevity.
 
H

Heart Attack

Member
LOL @ those who claim No Radar makes the game faster and more fun. The game at high levels becomes a camping fest in groups of 2 or 3. Whoever gets the sniper first pretty much dominates.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
Heart Attack said:
LOL @ those who claim No Radar makes the game faster and more fun. The game at high levels becomes a camping fest in groups of 2 or 3. Whoever gets the sniper first pretty much dominates.
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Yep this is why high level tournament play without radars is camping only right??

Please.
 
Y

YourExWife

Member
squidhands said:
Would be nice if radar disappeared if you stood still for any real length of time to help prevent the camping issue. Alas.
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This idea actually sounds really interesting. Make a minimum movement speed requirement for radar to activate. You have no radar unless your spartan is moving a certain speed. Crouching/crouch walking can still not show up on radar, but yours won't be active, so you can still be vulnerable. This could even *gasp!* encourage map movement. The only people that would see you on radar are other people that are also not crouch-walking. Would require teamwork for camping to be truly effective (using bait-and-switch or whatever).
 
S

squidhands

Member
YourExWife said:
This idea actually sounds really interesting. Make a minimum movement speed requirement for radar to activate. You have no radar unless your spartan is moving a certain speed. Crouching/crouch walking can still not show up on radar, but yours won't be active, so you can still be vulnerable. This could even *gasp!* encourage map movement. The only people that would see you on radar are other people that are also not crouch-walking. Would require teamwork for camping to be truly effective (using bait-and-switch or whatever).
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Exactly, radar would only activate with movement above that of crouch-walking. I don't see much of a downside to having that capability, especially if 343 plans to keep camo and PV in loadouts.
 
O

Overdoziz

Banned
Playing Halo 3 2v2s the other day without radar was glorious. Anticipating movement of opponents and moving unpredictably yourself and getting kills because of it is extremely satisfying for me. One of my favorite things to do is when you're getting shot you hide behind some cover and then you jump back out straight away to catch your opponent off guard. People have the tendency to throw grenades when someone they're shooting at got behind cover. This gives you the opportunity to a few shots in while he's doing the animation possibly gaining you the upper hand.

Stuff like that is what keeps me playing.
 
M

Madness

Member
Heart Attack said:
LOL @ those who claim No Radar makes the game faster and more fun. The game at high levels becomes a camping fest in groups of 2 or 3. Whoever gets the sniper first pretty much dominates.
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Isn't that the point though? Whoever gets the sniper and holds it, should dominate. I don't see how no radar promotes camping over full radar. With radar active, you can see where people are, limits stealth somewhat, and just sit there waiting, without it, it makes the player more aware of his surroundings. He has to look for players, hear movement or shots, call out with his teammates.

It only takes a few games of no radar to get over that back against the wall feeling.
 
B

Bregmann Roche

Member
I agree that no radar is better than radar, but with the way that 343 has implemented it in Halo 4, I don't see them reducing radar's presence in MP nor do I see them reducing its power.

At lower levels of play Halo 4's radar is used to drive player interaction as much as anything else. Johnny Badplay can look at his radar and see a giant red arrow at the periphery that tells him where to go to fight. If he likes vehicles he can look at it to see where the nearest warthog or ghost is.

Radar is absolutely a crutch, but in the wonderful world of Halo accessibility 343 wants as many crutches as they can get.
 
N

Nebula

Member
BigShow36 said:
I already fucking hate this new thread.
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In BTB camping is a lot more common with no radar as people try to counter not being able to tell where others are by cutting down on the amount of ways an enemy can approach them (camping in a corner/room/tunnel with few entrances.)
 
B

BlueScrote

Member
Bregmann Roche said:
I agree that no radar is better than radar, but with the way that 343 has implemented it in Halo 4, I don't see them reducing radar's presence in MP nor do I see them reducing its power.

At lower levels of play Halo 4's radar is used to drive player interaction as much as anything else. Johnny Badplay can look at his radar and see a giant red arrow at the periphery that tells him where to go to fight. If he likes vehicles he can look at it to see where the nearest warthog or ghost is.

Radar is absolutely a crutch, but in the wonderful world of Halo accessibility 343 wants as many crutches as they can get.
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In random matchmaking, no radar makes playing kind of frustrating since you can't rely on your teammates communicating to you where enemies are.

At an organized level it's the only way to play though.
 
R

Risen

Member
Madness said:
But it works both ways then. Without radar, you don't know where the other team is either. Meaning, how do you know that there aren't 3 guys just through that area but with radar, you can see people firing, where they are, and then purposely avoid them etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love no radar, but I can see its uses and wouldn't mind it back either way. But with radar, you gain more people than you'll lose I think.

No radar means fewer campers just watching you and waiting for you, better team play and relying on X on death and callouts etc. But I can see where people would want it back. Especially those who play with randoms and there are no callouts.
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I know this... we won a 2v4 on Scythe this morning without radar, and if it had been there we'd have been shit on. Good players have a real understanding of where people are at most, if not all, times on a map. Your question of "how do you know" is one of the many things that separates good players from lesser players, and is directly responsible for that 2v4 win.

Radar plays the game for you. Sure it's a tool, and in the hands of good players is just that much more information and will be used well. But there is no getting around it falsely inflating skill sets that would otherwise separate players relative skill levels.
 
R

Risen

Member
Tashi said:
You should see my smile right now.
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I mean - some definitely work better for specific game types, or settings - so you kinda have to look through the settings in which you're playing, but they are mostly well designed and balanced maps. I can certainly see a difference in the testing in these maps, than previous forge list offerings.

I think even Over might approve, of at least one of them... maybe.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
As far as gametypes are concerned, often theres nothing I can do. Infinity Slayer is infinity slayer.

With the Forge Island test I had to use settings exactly as they appeared in matchmaking already. Ideally, I would have use custom settings for almost every gametype. That's just the way it is.
 
S

squidhands

Member
Tashi said:
As far as gametypes are concerned, often theres nothing I can do. Infinity Slayer is infinity slayer.

With the Forge Island test I had to use settings exactly as they appeared in matchmaking already. Ideally, I would have use custom settings for almost every gametype. That's just the way it is.
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Did you guys find anything out about Legendary Slayer settings?
 
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