VincentMatts
Member
Go see the best halo maps, then look at the maps in 5. You can lol all you want, the maps in this game are pure garbage.
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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
Go see the best halo maps, then look at the maps in 5. You can lol all you want, the maps in this game are pure garbage.
I don't think so. I've argued that the AR is overpowered a few times on GAF. I don't think it's a complete disaster like some people do, but I'd still say it's probably my biggest issue with the gameplay.
Also couldn't you say "too easy to be effective with everything" and "unbalanced" are kinda the same thing? The difficulty of use for a weapon is an integral part of its balance within a sandbox.
5's maps for the most part are solid.
It doesn't have the best selection in the series but it definitely doesn't have the worst.
Truth, Fathom, Coliseum, Plaza, Rig, Eden, Regret.
I wouldn't say any of these are standout classics but they're all decent and play well.
I thought snow torque had one.
Mercy and Stasis are decent.
Tyrant is playable as well, if a bit cramped in the middle.
Mercy and Stasis are horrible - the antithesis of competitive maps.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Semantics. It's balanced in the sense that every weapon is effective, unlike previous games where some weapons were useless. That doesn't mean it can't be unbalanced in a different context, like with ease of use / skill gap.
VincentMatts
Member
Unless the gun has a lock on on it, no gun will be "easy to use" to the point where a noob will do well against a vet, no matter how effective it is.
This.
Halo 3 BR was, by far (to me), the easiest BR ever at close/mid-range (even easier than H4 BR once patched), but a noob would still be beaten by a vet.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Right, which is why I wouldn't call Halo 5 unbalanced.
That's hardly semantics.
Balance isn't just how effective weapons are. The ease of use aspect is just as important, if not more so.
Edit: Obviously a complete noob with no thumbs is going to be beaten by an experienced player. The problem with the AR for example was that there was very little distinction between an average plat/diamond player and a high level Onyx player. The skill ceiling with the AR was very low. Combine that with how powerful it was and you have (at mid to high level) an unbalanced weapon.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
The Halo 3 BR was the easiest? It's definitely the most difficult BR, so I wonder if you find it easier because there were less people good with it. This would also explain why you find Halo 5 so difficult, because there are more people who are good since it's generally not as difficult to land shots.
A newb won't be able to out-shoot a pro because there's still a skill gap. The BR wasn't unbalanced; it would have been unbalanced as a starting weapon for 4v4's though. Also, just because a sandbox is balanced doesn't mean there can't be elements of it that could be improved, like we're experiencing with the AR/SMG.
You're conflating an unbalanced weapon with an unbalanced game. Halo 5, I think, is fairly well-balanced, but it isn't perfect and could definitely use improvements.
VincentMatts
Member
And i agree with you. The guns were fine imo. I dunno why do this now considering H6 will probably have new gameplay elements that will affect everything. So all this will have to be redone.
Masterz1337
Neo Member
People can do that but it means nothing. If you are aiming and having the red reticule it's going to ultimately alter that behavior.
I'm not saying the game is unbalanced. I never said that.
I agree, overall the game is fairly well balanced. There's just a few areas which need improvement.
Just because it's my biggest issue with H5's gameplay doesn't mean I think it's a major issue, lol
y'all are conflating skill gap with balance.
Noobs can't beat pros because there IS a skill gap. The small size of the skill gap, however is problematic. An unbalanced game can have a skill gap- it means higher level players are able to exploit whatever advantages are present in the sandbox, balanced or not (they figure out the spawn system, be better at timing weapons, know where to preshoot etc)
Halo 5 is unbalanced because powerful weapons are too easy too use + The utility weapon is the hardest weapon & the weakest.
Noobs can't beat pros because there IS a skill gap. The small size of the skill gap, however is problematic. An unbalanced game can have a skill gap- it means higher level players are able to exploit whatever advantages are present in the sandbox, balanced or not (they figure out the spawn system, be better at timing weapons, know where to preshoot etc)
Halo 5 is unbalanced because powerful weapons are too easy too use + The utility weapon is the hardest weapon & the weakest.
I don't remember saying Halo 5 was difficult (or maybe I did, but I don't think so) as I said it wasn't fun and pleasing, which is very different. For Halo 3, I used to play in the MLG playlist and ranked (and social stuff ofc) most of the time, so I don't think I could tell I was playing with people not good with a BR (or we don't hold the same meaning for good with a BR maybe ?).
I'm almost top 2 on every games I play on Halo 5, ranked or not, with a decent ratio, it's just I have to concentrate much much more than in previous games to make a similar score.
When I said easier, I'm saying this in a way AIM assist help a lot and the feeling you get from using a gun. With all the magnetism Halo 5 can have, I feel most of the gun harder to use because there is less aim assist and I have to do more to follow someone's head.
Thanks for posting here and reminding me I have to finish my review of SPV3 Masterz.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
You said this:
So..
We had a nice little streak there where we agreed on a lot of things lol. And no, I'm not conflating skill gap with balance, at least I don't think so considering the context.
What I mean is that you find it more difficult to be successful at Halo 5 because there are more good players = more competitive gameplay, whereas you enjoy Halo 3 more because you're good and the game is more difficult to be good at = less good players. Might be a stretch, but it's just a thought.
And Halo 3 has less aim assist and bullet magnetism than Halo 5, doesn't it? So I don't think that last bit is true.
RRR needs to be considered. But part of what contributes to skill gap is a players ability to fight outside of their weapons RRR. For example when you watch pros play h5, they are nailing pistol shots with white reticles.
With that in mind i wouldn't say the test means nothing.
A better test would be to setup a no sheild custom game.
use a sniper rifle to target a players head, then switch to the BR, and backup until you are outside of RRR. Then fire a burst to see if he dies. Repeat 100 times.
All good things must come to an end. Lol
Im saying even in an unbalanced game, (like say, destiny pvp) some players will find a way to consistently excel against others. You can't use that fact to argue the game is balanced
Edit: i see that your definition of balance was that every gun is useful. not a definition i would use, but i can see how one would come to that conclusion.
YourExWife
Member
I wasn't serious, lol. You my bruh.
I haven't gotten a chance to try the new stuff, so I must resort to non-posts to ease back into visiting this place again.
FATstronaut
Member
Yo I'm still landing perfect after perfect in the weapon tuning test playlist. Y'all sure they changed anything? cuz I'm still straight up beasting it over here.
I'm the best. fear me.
Well yeah, but like I said in my last post, just because I think it's the biggest problem with the game doesn't mean I think it's actually a big problem.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
You know the drill by now lol.
I still remember the day my Legendary Edition was delivered.
"This is Sierra 259. You have Spartans on the ground sir, we're not going anywhere."
Remember Reach. Game could have been so much more if it wasn't caught between the Bungie and 343 transition. Bungie peaced out after the Noble map pack, and the lack of playlist updates, 343 paywalling a large amount of the playerbase with the CEA map pack and really only focusing on H4 development, with bloom and AA's the game wasn't competitive much with ZBNS Reach arriving too late that MLG didn't get the support they needed. Really was the beginning of the end.
Still love the campaign though.
So, I actually intentionally saved getting Reach's "final" achievement - Monument To All Your Sins - until today. I got so distracted by the matchmaking maps thing and MP in general back then that at some point I figured it'd be cooler to get it on it's 7 year anniversary, and set an email reminder. I'll probably stream later tonight. I wonder if I should just finish the levels I have left to unlock it or do it as a straight-thru run.
Alright, after playing some more of the weapon tuning playlist I feel more strongly that the random spread has to go.
I think a better solution would be stronger vertical recoil during bursts which immediately resets at the end of a burst. Stronger recoil is going to make long distance engagements more difficult whilst not adding any randomness to the combat.
I think a better solution would be stronger vertical recoil during bursts which immediately resets at the end of a burst. Stronger recoil is going to make long distance engagements more difficult whilst not adding any randomness to the combat.
Gnome Scat
Member
They aren't pure garbage, they're just not very inspired or interesting and a lot of them feel relatively samey. Would love to see some more creativity in 6.
Fata1moose
Banned
I like Truth, Eden and Coliseum more than any 4v4 map in Halo 3. 🤷
Not to say I don't like Halo 3 maps, there are plenty of good ones. Reach has the worst 4v4 map pool. Granted BTB is another story, Halo 5 dropped the ball there, but as far as my preferences go that's no equal weighing as I'll take Arena over big team. Big Team has to be there in 6 however, no excuses.
There shouldn't be anything random in a competitive shooter.
Yes, that's why I'm saying they should remove the randomness.
I don't find it difficult to be successful at Halo 5, again, I'm, most of the time, 1st or 2nd during ranked games with a decent K/d ratio. I just find it more difficult, and less pleasing, to get kills without being concentrate on what I'm doing and putting all my skill into a game.
No because my opponents are good (I'm sure they are, but not miles ahead of me), but because it's harder to handle the precisions weapons since there is less AIM assist, more unpredictable moves due to the Thruster which cause frustration.
Just to make my ideas clear, I want to make a difference between how easy a weapon can be to handle/use, and how effective a player is with this weapon.
A pen can be really ergonomic, and we could all handle a pen easily while having a certain pleasure to hold it between our hand.
But, our writing and drawing skills vary from person to person.
That's where I put the Halo 3 and Halo 5 BR. The Halo 3 weapon is a pretty ergonomic pen, really easy to use at first hand, and then, much of the difference will be made by your own skill on how you use this pen.
Halo 5 BR (and other precision weapons), on the other hand, doesn't feel as ergonomic and good feeling. It makes its harder to handle it and use it at first, to me, and less pleasing, impacting my skill while I have to put more of myself to get a similar result than with the Halo 3 BR.
That's somehow a crazy illustration here, but hope it helps to get to my point.
Now, I'm sure Halo 3 (and all Bungie's games) has more AIM assist than Halo 5 while having less magnetism, but if it happens that I'm wrong about this, then there is definitely something off with the AIM in Halo 5.
Are we okay that the AIM assist is the way your weapon will "stick" to an opponent while you're moving? Because then, I may use the wrong term here, so feel free to correct my mistake.
Masterz1337
Neo Member
The problem (IMO) with talking about it outside the RRR is that at that point, you are fighting against what the game wants you to do, and how it should be played. Based on previous games, as far as my understanding goes, when you are outside of the RRR you are no longer having hitscan applied anyway, and thus the behavior will change even beyond the lack of bullet deviation due to auto aim. On top of this, with H5 you have further bullet deviation based on your connection, which just complicates it more. It doesn't really mater how the pro's play it, as they should be encouraged to play within the confines of the sandbox, and breaking outside of it should never result in them having an unfair advantage that ruins it for everyone else (my problem with H2).
This is why I don't really value these tests people do which are going to show the guns performing without all their mechanics working. What you describe would certainly be better, but the results can't be taken as gospel. Simply due to the fact you have a stationary target in a game full of movement where the connection can fluctuate, and thus so does your guns behavior based on that players movement and network factors
Sometimes what goes on isn't as important as the result, and from my experience with the playlist the result is a slower paced game with more methodical movement and shooting, which is an improvement and more "Halo". If the spread is as bad as people make it out to be (and I don't think the evidence is valid) and it leads to people aiming 3 shots at the chest, 1 at the head like h3 (without the other bullshit that game has) which effectively slows down the game and further adds a learning curve, I am all for it. But so far in my experience, the new BR does not resemble H3's in the slightest, despite the updated mechanics.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I think they should test lowering the BR's RRR and aim assist/bullet magnetism when unzoomed. Try that out next.
But what do you guys think about the Gunfighter Magnum?
But what do you guys think about the Gunfighter Magnum?
This is actually a damn good analogy.
Even when not factoring aim assist, Halo 5 is known to have a strange acceleration curve in comparison to past halo's and other shooters.
That might be what you mean when you say the aim doesn't feel good.
Gunfighter seems completely pointless currently.
>
Any Halo 5 map, including Truth.
Eh, it's good but I think it's overrated.
Fata1moose
Banned
I don't like the Pit all that much. The beginning of each match starts out exactly the same and you have the sword room which is awful.
Disagree fundamentally. RRR doesn't dictate how a weapon should be used. It never has. It dictates what range a weapon is most effective.
The developer shouldn't arbitrarily dictate skill ceiling. And you certainly shouldn't introduce inconsistency as a balancing tactic. You can limit how effective a gun is, without limiting how good people can get with it.
Would you feel the same if they made close range sniper shots random, just because the weapon is intended to be better at long range?
It's called a sandbox- they drop toys to be played with and the community figures out how to play them- often in ways that are novel or unexpected. That creates depth and nuance.
We aren't talking about button glitches and gamebreaking physics abuse. We are talking about players learning to be good without having their hands held. theres nothing wrong with being excellent.
The occasional long distance BR kill via skill doesn't "break" the sanbox anymore than the occasional long distance BR kill via luck. The latter should obviously not be prefered over the former.
Being able to use a BR effectively, beyond where the game decides BR use should be easy, isn't an 'unfair advantage'... it's a skill. What is unfair is perfectly aiming a shot, then the game randomly telling you that you missed. Or when you miss, but the game randomly decides your opponent should die.
Random spread DOES NOT help create a learning curve. It's demoralizing to a person who is trying to learn. It ensures that no matter how much you study, practice, and learn- your success is ultimately not up to you, it's up to chance.
Very few people have EVER liked it in halo. It's just not good. Any benefits can be achieved via better methods.
Edit: I'm not sure what you mean by hitscan not applying beyond RRR. RRR never dictated the distance at which damage would apply. There is a distance at which bullets will no longer do damage, but that's always been well beyond RRR. white reticle fighting has been a thing since CE.
>
Any Halo 5 map, including Truth.
There's a reason why 9/10 pros say H3 was their favorite when asked on stream. MLG TS/Flag on the Pit was too good. I remember some insane matches during the tournaments. Narrows Flag was another classic. Oddball Guardian. So many good gametypes/maps in terms of balance I miss the H3 days.
Zeouterlimits
Member
The Pit is probably the best small arena map in the franchise.
YourExWife
Member
The inconsistency of this new BR is fucking pathetic and I just have no idea what the hell they were thinking.
You know what I didn't miss from previous Halos? Shooting people who aren't strafing and having my shots randomly not hit because reasons.
Wait, I meant to say THIS IS SUPER FUN I FUCKING LOVE RANDOMNESS IN MY FUCKING SHOOTERS.
I'm legit salty rn. FAT knows.
You know what I didn't miss from previous Halos? Shooting people who aren't strafing and having my shots randomly not hit because reasons.
Wait, I meant to say THIS IS SUPER FUN I FUCKING LOVE RANDOMNESS IN MY FUCKING SHOOTERS.
I'm legit salty rn. FAT knows.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
#BringBackArmorAbilities