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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

I actually feel like the changes make the magnum a better overall gun. It seems like they've nerfed or increased the difficulty of every other precision weapon - so the magnum should fit right in...

Magnum starts seem like they'd be better than ever. Im open to trying br/gunfighter, but it seems unnecessary.

Like I said up there, BR/Gunfighter feels in keeping with the Pistol/AR start idea of having players spawn with the ability to defend themselves at all ranges, but not with a single weapon, and better because you actually can. Gunfighter kicks the crap out of BR and close range, BR wins out at longer ranges.

One tweak I'd make is extending the RRR of the Magnum by a hair. Right now, it feels like there's an effectiveness gap where I'd like to be using my Magnum, but the reticle isn't lighting up, and the BR feels a little too clumsy because they're too close.
 

Juan

Member
To be honest, I fee like the sandbox have become really really messy with way too much weapons. Hell I'm not even talking about all the WZ variants, I'm talking just the base weapons.

Why having SMG, AR, Storm Rifle, Suppressor and SAW when they all pretty much feed the same need and are just variation based on range and spread?

Why having BR, DMR, Magnum, Lightrifle and Carbine on the same map when they pretty much feed the same need, having just variation on the range and the rate of fire?

When I'm on a arena map, I never know if I should keep the starting weapons or take another one on the map (not talking about power weapon of course). There is just too much weapons for barely different scenarios...

I really miss the simplicity of Halo CE/Halo 2/Halo 3/Halo Reach were weapons fed a particular role and I didn't need to ask myself which weapon I should take to be effective.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Like I said up there, BR/Gunfighter feels in keeping with the Pistol/AR start idea of having players spawn with the ability to defend themselves at all ranges, but not with a single weapon, and better because you actually can. Gunfighter kicks the crap out of BR and close range, BR wins out at longer ranges.

One tweak I'd make is extending the RRR of the Magnum by a hair. Right now, it feels like there's an effectiveness gap where I'd like to be using my Magnum, but the reticle isn't lighting up, and the BR feels a little too clumsy because they're too close.

I agree with your assessment. Gunfighter/BR is like a better version of the magnum/AR starts, because with skill you can be serviceable at any range, against any weapon on the game.

I think the same would be true with just the magnum. This wouldn't have been true before, because the magnum was underpowered against every other pickup, but with the tweaks it closer to perfection.

The reason I prefer the single weapon approach is because you avoid the rock-paper-scissors element. Where situational happenstance trumps skill. Say I just won a close range gunfighter 1v1, but his teammate starts BRing me, I'd prefer not to HAVE to change weapons to defend myself.

minor gripe, but it is something that I looked forward to upon learning that precision weapons were all getting rebalanced.

To be honest, I fee like the sandbox have become really really messy with way too much weapons. Hell I'm not even talking about all the WZ variants, I'm talking just the base weapons.

Why having SMG, AR, Storm Rifle, Suppressor and SAW when they all pretty much feed the same need and are just variation based on range and spread?

Why having BR, DMR, Magnum, Lightrifle and Carbine on the same map when they pretty much feed the same need, having just variation on the range and the rate of fire?

When I'm on a arena map, I never know if I should keep the starting weapons or take another one on the map (not talking about power weapon of course). There is just too much weapons for barely different scenarios...

I really miss the simplicity of Halo CE/Halo 2/Halo 3/Halo Reach were weapons fed a particular role and I didn't need to ask myself which weapon I should take to be effective.

This is why I prefer actual varied effects rather than Damage and range being the thing that separates weapons within the same class. I guess these types of tweaks were outside the scope of a halo 5 update, but hopefully they move back making guns effect the enemy differently.

The plasma rifle stunned
The AR shredded, let you pick up Camo faster
The PP quickly drained shields

Now it's just "gunfighter is a mag, but close range. BR is a mag, but mid range, DMR is a mag but long range, Carbine is a mag, but more magnetism."
 

JoeLT

Member
It's still blowing my mind they're taking Halo 5, the most competitive Halo and making it MORE competitive and increasing the skill gap. It's depressing to see this happen to my favourite series.
 
There was a whole lot of stuff written in the post-H4, pre-ban community threads about why a higher skill gap is good for the game as a whole, at every level, but I'm lazy so whatever.
 

JoeLT

Member
Sarcasm or idiocy? Spin the wheel, boys.

Wow. Did I hurt your feelings?

Care to explain what you don't like or are you just going to drive-by
Literally all of the changes have been done to make weapons harder to use, which was already Halo 5's problem. I played a bit and the new BR is plain awful, the gunfighter magnum is alright but that doesn't need to be there. There's no point giving feedback as the majority of the community online now are just competitive players so it's all going to be praised and go through anyway. Me and my partner are the only ones of my friends who still play Halo on occasion at this point and haven't completely moved onto Destiny and other games.

If this change goes through I think that'll be that for Halo 5 multiplayer for me, I don't understand why they're even putting so much focus on competitive and Esports. No one watches HCS, every time I tune in it's just technical issues and VERY low viewer counts. Don't get me wrong HCS is fun to watch as I love Halo, but it's cleary not popular so I don't understand why they keep chasing it.
 

Trup1aya

Member
It's still blowing my mind they're taking Halo 5, the most competitive Halo and making it MORE competitive and increasing the skill gap. It's depressing to see this happen to my favourite series.

I just don't understand this line of thinking- making the skill gap larger, like the previous halo games, makes the game more casual friendly (See CE-Reach for example). This is because there is more distance between those at the bottom playing to play, and those at the top playing to be elite.

If you like a sweat box, go ahead an advocate for every gun having identical effectiveness. There's a reason why you feel like H5 is the "most competitive".

The reason - making all of the guns and every action easy made it easier for everyone to compete, thus bringing everyone closer to a central skill level.
 
Literally all of the changes have been done to make weapons harder to use, which was already Halo 5's problem.
Which Halo is your ideal Halo with how the gameplay, weapons, etc. feel?
There's no point giving feedback as the majority of the community online now are just competitive players so it's all going to be praised and go through anyway.
From what I've seen, the impressions have been mixed. I wouldn't assume everyone left is highly competitive either, as is evident from yourself. There are still plenty of players similar to how you feel.

If this change goes through I think that'll be that for Halo 5 multiplayer for me, I don't understand why they're even putting so much focus on competitive and Esports.

I think your framing is wrong; the point of this update isn't to make it more competitive. 343 wants to try some tweaks going into year 3 of Halo 5, probably to test things for Halo 6. Maybe they're considering BR starts again and want to find a way to make it work, and the same goes for the other changes (balancing autos to a place where all fans are comfortable with them again without feeling they're too OP).

No one watches HCS, every time I tune in it's just technical issues and VERY low viewer counts. Don't get me wrong HCS is fun to watch as I love Halo, but it's cleary not popular so I don't understand why they keep chasing it.

Does 343 having Halo tournaments take away from "casual" aspects of Halo? Is the team working on esports the same team who could be working on bringing us more Warzone/BTB content? If not, then I don't see the argument of "focusing too much on esports" when it's not taking resources from anything else.
 

Cranster

Banned
Ah... still love the fantasy that Halo caters TOO MUCH to the HCS scene...
I mean, when the game launches with a barebones Arena multiplayer with 3 Arena gametypes and Breakout, only small maps with no vehicle play, no BTB, no forge mode, ect. All while hiring pro players to approve and test the multiplayer. It kind of makes you think. If there was more of a variety of developer map types with a mix of vehicle play and a slightly increased TTK I think Halo 5 would be a much more popular game.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I mean, when the game launches with a barebones Arena multiplayer with 3 Arena gametypes and Breakout, only small maps with no vehicle play, no BTB, no forge mode, ect. All while hiring pro players to approve and test the multiplayer. It kind of makes you think. If there was more of a variety of developer map types with a mix of vehicle play and a slightly increased TTK I think Halo 5 would be a much more popular game.

The game launched with warzone, and an avg TTK identical to previous games.

Blaming esports for taking away your casual modes is silly when they bet the farm on Warzone.

Launching with 3 arena modes and breakout is the opposite of focusing on competitive.
 

Juan

Member
It's still blowing my mind they're taking Halo 5, the most competitive Halo and making it MORE competitive and increasing the skill gap. It's depressing to see this happen to my favourite series.

You know, at this point of Halo 5's lifetime, it would not make any sense to make the game more appealing to the casual audience in the Arena.

Let them try to make Halo 5 the hardest game to play ever, if that's what their initial idea was.

But denying competitive play was a focus for 343 during Halo 5 development would be insane.
 

BizzyBum

Member
I think it's obvious 343 thought people would consider Warzone an evolution of BTB and decided not to include it at launch until everyone and their mom complained about the absence of it.

The AR (and SMG) now have significant bloom when spraying so they will suck for mid to long range now: https://giant.gfycat.com/HandsomeFinishedHypsilophodon.mp4. I'm sure controlled bursts are still good, and I read using the smart scope allows for longer sustained bursts.
 
I think it's obvious 343 thought people would consider Warzone an evolution of BTB and decided not to include it at launch until everyone and their mom complained about the absence of it.

Agreed. I thoroughly enjoy WZ but I consider it a new mode not a replacement to BTB. I hope 343 treat BTB as it's own mode with H6.

It's also great to have a PvE mode for Halo in WZ FF, another element I really hope 343 go Balls-Out-Destiny PvE with H6. My dream really. Looking at REQs and weapon variants they're not really that far off a Destiny PvE style system anyhow. Halo with character progression, weapon/armour loot and sustained game/story as a service would be insanity. Player retention out the proverbial.
 

Cranster

Banned
The game launched with warzone, and an avg TTK identical to previous games.
No, TTK is noticably much much lower especially compared to Halo 2, 3 and Reach. Combined with Spartan abilities and poor map design there is barely enough time to actually react and fight back if your back is turned. Warzone aswell was not a good substitute for BTB.

Blaming esports for taking away your casual modes is silly when they bet the farm on Warzone.
Esports doesn't deserve all the blame, but with how 343i has advertised/promoted it it is obvious that it had an effect on their priorities during development. To call core gametypes though like one flag/bomb. assault, KoTH, Territories, Oddball, Juggernaut, ect casual is an insult to Halo fans though.

Launching with 3 arena modes and breakout is the opposite of focusing on competitive.
I disagree, especially considering they launched with the core competitive gametypes.
 

Trup1aya

Member
No, TTK is noticably much much lower especially compared to Halo 2, 3 and Reach. Combined with Spartan abilities and poor map design there is barely enough time to actually react and fight back if your back is turned.

H2BR- 1.6s
H5mag- 1.2s

Here's why Your take doesn't make much sense. Spartan abilities and the bad maps/sightlines actually INCREASE the average TTK by making it harder finish kills. They allow MORE time to react. Also getting perfect mag kills is less likely than h2br perfect kills since it has less range and aim assist. The end result is Avg kill times that are nearly identical.

Warzone aswell was not a good substitute for BTB.

Warzone was not a good subsitute for BTB... but that has nothing to do with esports, just a bad bet on 343s part regarding what the masses want out of a halo game.

Esports doesn't deserve all the blame, but with how 343i has advertised/promoted it it is obvious that it had an effect on their priorities during development. To call core gametypes though like one flag/bomb. assault, KoTH, Territories, Oddball, Juggernaut, ect casual is an insult to Halo fans though.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Warzone was, by far, the more advertised MP component, the more ambitious and the more developmentally time consuming.

Beyond that, Half of the modes you just mentioned were also favorite esport modes. So how does cutting them equate to an esports focus? Not having this list in the game is an insult to halo- competitive halo, casual halo and everything in between. These modes weren't lost because of a focus on esports, they were lost because the team had to build a massive new gamemode destined to bring in a fortune off of MTs and that took priority.

I disagree, especially considering they launched with the core competitive gametypes.

Huh? Slayer and CTF are the most popular 4v4 Halo modes, by far, PERIOD. Especially true among those who aren't even into the competitive side. Esports or not, those 2 gametypes are going to be in a halo game. To suggest that they were chosen purely because they were core competitive is some crazy spin.

These two modes are synonymous with halo. The argument that making these two modes priority is proof of a competive focus doesn't make any sense. It makes even less sense when you consider the fact that many in the esports scene don't even like slayer.

Then you have Strongholds, which is just a twist on territories.
 
Wow. Did I hurt your feelings?


Literally all of the changes have been done to make weapons harder to use, which was already Halo 5's problem. I played a bit and the new BR is plain awful, the gunfighter magnum is alright but that doesn't need to be there. There's no point giving feedback as the majority of the community online now are just competitive players so it's all going to be praised and go through anyway. Me and my partner are the only ones of my friends who still play Halo on occasion at this point and haven't completely moved onto Destiny and other games.

If this change goes through I think that'll be that for Halo 5 multiplayer for me, I don't understand why they're even putting so much focus on competitive and Esports. No one watches HCS, every time I tune in it's just technical issues and VERY low viewer counts. Don't get me wrong HCS is fun to watch as I love Halo, but it's cleary not popular so I don't understand why they keep chasing it.

I mean, sorry you're bad at the game? If you wanted to be handed wins because of random chance and not your skill and experience, which is essentially what you are asking for, play something more random and not the competitive component of a competitive FPS. Like Chutes and Ladders.

I wouldn't mind a less competitive focus, but I would do it through playlist selection, not adding stupid random bullshit (tm) to the base gameplay. At least I get a choice on which playlists I play, I don't when it's an attribute of a weapon.
 

JoeLT

Member
I mean, sorry you're bad at the game? If you wanted to be handed wins because of random chance and not your skill and experience, which is essentially what you are asking for, play something more random and not the competitive component of a competitive FPS. Like Chutes and Ladders.

I wouldn't mind a less competitive focus, but I would do it through playlist selection, not adding stupid random bullshit (tm) to the base gameplay. At least I get a choice on which playlists I play, I don't when it's an attribute of a weapon.
Wow so hostile, this is the exact kind of player that is the problem with Halo 5. I take it you were the same people who had their ego challenged when they were killed by assault rifles?
 
Wow so hostile, this is the exact kind of player that is the problem with Halo 5. I take it you were the same people who had their ego challenged when they were killed by assault rifles?
You'd feel really dumb saying that if you'd ever played with the dude.

Like, he literally never even plays ranked shit and is into warzone and whatnot.

But continue with your strawman because he likes the game and doesn't enjoy interactions in an *FPS* that are less dependent on the players' abilities.
 

TCKaos

Member
This honestly sounds more and more like "Well, we realize that you guys wanted BTB pistol starts, but we opted to phase out the pistol entirely and nerf every rifle until it's effectively the pistol. That's what you wanted, right?"

It's still blowing my mind they're taking Halo 5, the most competitive Halo and making it MORE competitive and increasing the skill gap. It's depressing to see this happen to my favourite series.

c72.gif


You do not want to reduce skill gaps.
 
This honestly sounds more and more like "Well, we realize that you guys wanted BTB pistol starts, but we opted to phase out the pistol entirely and nerf every rifle until it's effectively the pistol. That's what you wanted, right?"
Implying they give a flying fuck about the BTB experience...
 

Trup1aya

Member
I take it you were the same people who had their ego challenged when they were killed by assault rifles?

I'm sorry but you keep making these posts, claiming that you want the game to be more casual friendly, but advocating for designs that are actually RUINING that experience for you.

A large skill gap is simultaneously THE BEST DESIGN for a casual game and a competitive game.

B2Ehm99.jpg


You recognize these standard deviation plots?

The tall one is representative of how skill distribution looks when there is a small skill gap (small deviation from average skill). It's easy to be considered decent, but hard to excel. The end result is an entire population, from casual to hardcore, tightly concentrated around the same area - creating a sweaty, unrelenting atmosphere. This is what H5 has been dealing with since launch.

The short one is representative of how the skill distribution looks when there is a large skill gap. This is rewarding to lower skilled or less serious players - because they can be sure to keep their distance from the tryhards. It's also rewarding for competitive players because the design inherently allows them to find ways to separate from the rest of the pack.

The shorter and more spread out the distribution the better for both ends of the talent pool.

Wanting the AR and the rest of the sandbox to be properly balanced around this concept has nothing to do with ego. It's about wanting a game that's designed to work for the entire spectrum.
 
Wow so hostile, this is the exact kind of player that is the problem with Halo 5. I take it you were the same people who had their ego challenged when they were killed by assault rifles?

Ego issues is an interesting argumentative direction from someone who is essentially complaining that they will be beaten by better players more often.

As exwife mentioned, I'm not into the competitive scene at all, and I would appreciate more unranked playlists- but adding randomness to player encounters through weapon behavior is antithetical to the type of game this is.
 

JoeLT

Member
Ego issues is an interesting argumentative direction from someone who is essentially complaining that they will be beaten by better players more often.

As exwife mentioned, I'm not into the competitive scene at all, and I would appreciate more unranked playlists- but adding randomness to player encounters through weapon behavior is antithetical to the type of game this is.

I was just annoyed at the condescending and insulting replies you gave to my posts because I disagreed, hence the ego comment. As people getting upset about guns like the AR and whining for a nerf as they're too easy to use is something that is widespread across all shooters atm. Also for the record Im by no means a bad played, when I had the time to play this game more and there were actually any population in Australia I ranked Diaman or Onyx, I'm not a bad player. I do however have a lot of friends who aren't good at the game, namely my partner who isn't very good at all, but is great at easier games like Destiny. (You haven't been able to find a balanced game in any playlist for over 12 months, outside of Doubles or Team Arena on a Saturday afternoon)

I see the arguments for a wider skill gap is better for low level play, but then the game is just not fun at a low level if all the weapons are too hard to use. I think most of the competitive problems with Halo 5 stem from UI and playlist management more than anything. Gears of War 4 for example handle it much better with the difference between social, core and competitive lobbies being vastly different. As far as my understand a game with a large skill gap is a game like Siege which is incredibly frustrating to play at a low level. However Rocket League has a huge skill gap but is plenty fun to play at low skill levels (I'm barely average and always have a blast, I guess its different with non-shooters). Whereas a game like CoD, Destiny, Titanfall (sort of this one, the movement makes this a tricky one) have small skill gaps but if anything I don't see that as a bad thing. I just don't see how the changes 343 is making really benefits low level play at all, if its to separate low level and high level players then thats a mute point because thats the point of matchmaking. I guess it makes playing in Onyx more interesting but playing in Silver frustrating and less fun than it already is. Not to mention its not precision weapon starts only, which they've said if that works in this test they'll move that everywhere. Again how is that good for casual players? What about the new radar, how is that good for casual players? How is nerfing the AR for casual players?

I've appreciated the insight from some of these replies and wouldn't mind some more of your thoughts on these. The skill gap seems to be managed fine by the matchmaking right now, so increasing the skill gap just makes lower level play harder and less fun. Unless there is something I am missing?
 
I actually like the changes. I'll keep this short --


  • BR: I like it better this way. It doesn't feel as good as it used to, however it feels more rewarding. I think that's important for me to stress; it might be my favorite BR in the series.
  • Gunfighter: Right now, the Gunfighter Magnum is pretty fun to use with its high ROF. I didn't realize how much I missed that with the Pistol until using this weapon in 4v4's, so at the moment I'm actually okay with BR/Gunfighter starts.
  • SMG: I like it. Definitely better this way with its more limited range and increased spread.
  • DMR: More difficult to use; I like it.
  • Railgun: I like the longer charge time.
  • Ability-based Radar: Needs to be implemented across the board.
And that's basically all I can really have an opinion on. I didn't use the Carbine, AR, etc. enough to judge. Overall, I had a lot of fun despite close to 100% of games having quitters, and so did my friend. He enjoyed this playlist more than most of his time playing other 4v4 playlists in H5. He's especially a fan of the Gunfighter Magnum, and he likes the changes made to the BR.

WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE:


  • I played 10+ matches and I think only 1 or 2 of them didn't have quitters. I disagree with having so many playlists when quitters still plague Halo. Infection, Grifball, SWAT, Snipers, etc. could just be played through the Customs Browser; there are plentiful hosts to choose from. I'd like less playlists, better curation and a drastically improved Customs Browser for Halo 6.
 
I mean, for as ultra-competitive as Halo 2 was/is, the weapons never felt difficult to use.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's been months since I've played, and I can't comment on the balance changes, but out of the lack of basic features at launch, a lackluster campaign in both regards to encounter design and story, the frustrating feeling of Halo 5's guns fighting against me was the game's worst sin, and has resulted in the most frustrating Halo multiplayer experience I've yet had, regardless of all the other ingenious design philosophies and touches in the rest of the multiplayer.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I see the arguments for a wider skill gap is better for low level play, but then the game is just not fun at a low level if all the weapons are too hard to use. I think most of the competitive problems with Halo 5 stem from UI and playlist management more than anything. Gears of War 4 for example handle it much better with the difference between social, core and competitive lobbies being vastly different.

Splitting the social, core, and competitive communities into different playlists is an artificial way to segment the population. So rather than designing a game where natural ability seperates players by skill and drive, you have people select the playlist that matches their drive.

This probably works decently if your game has a massive population. But creates problems for the average player who's drive changes. Any time your attitude shits for the day, you have to learn to play a completely different game.

In the case of Halo, I think it's better to have a base set weapons that are balanced for a high skill gap, but then allow weapon placements and rulesets in the social playlists that can minimize the need for gunskill and randomize the outcomes (looser Matchmaking, looser gametypes like fiesta, juggernaut, odd ball, richochete, territories, crazy king etc)

As far as my understand a game with a large skill gap is a game like Siege which is incredibly frustrating to play at a low level. However Rocket League has a huge skill gap but is plenty fun to play at low skill levels (I'm barely average and always have a blast, I guess its different with non-shooters). Whereas a game like CoD, Destiny, Titanfall (sort of this one, the movement makes this a tricky one) have small skill gaps but if anything I don't see that as a bad thing.

With Siege, it isn't the skill gap that frustrates new players. If new players are playing against new players there wouldn't be enough pressure to cause frustration. What's frustrating here is the skill floor- the basic level of competence needed to be able to positively effect a match.

Compared to Rocket League, Seige's skill floor is very high. Even if you've never played RL, you immediately figure how to drive a car and push a ball into a net. If you never played Seige you are absolutely clueless about what weapons and equipment to take, where to go, where the enemy will come from, and have to get a grasp of what each button does. And still have to be quick and accurate with aim.

Games like TitanFall, COD, and Destiny have core audiences that largely value the components that randomize outcomes- which is something Halo's audience has historically rejected in ranked modes. I think that's why the smaller skill gap works for them.

I just don't see how the changes 343 is making really benefits low level play at all, if its to separate low level and high level players then thats a mute point because thats the point of matchmaking. I guess it makes playing in Onyx more interesting but playing in Silver frustrating and less fun than it already is. Not to mention its not precision weapon starts only, which they've said if that works in this test they'll move that everywhere. Again how is that good for casual players? What about the new radar, how is that good for casual players? How is nerfing the AR for casual players?

Ok this is the misconception.

So, a matchmaking system is an artificial attempt to classify players by their likihood of winning against the rest of the talent pool. The skill distribution, in terms of CSR is easily manipulated by the numbers the dev chooses to feed the system. In fact, 343 has tried to manipulate the H5 system several times to make the ranking system feel better. The problem is, arbitrarily redistributing CSR makes for a more normal CSR distribution (CSR curve looks like a short distribution) but it doesn't change the fact that, mechanically, the population is still concentrated around the same level (a mechanical skill distribution would still be a tall distribution)

So all your doing is spreading ranks throughout the curve so it LOOKS like you have a flat distribution of skill. But players on the left/right edges are still VERY close in mechanical skill to those in the center- they are just slightly less likely to win. All you've done is increased the amount of sweat required to get from gold 3 to plat 6 because,in reality, a gold3 player is almost as good as a plat 6 player.

I've appreciated the insight from some of these replies and wouldn't mind some more of your thoughts on these. The skill gap seems to be managed fine by the matchmaking right now, so increasing the skill gap just makes lower level play harder and less fun. Unless there is something I am missing?

So, no matchmaking can't manage skill gap. It can make it look like there is a skill gap. But it can't change the fact that the games design locks players mechanical skill to a central level.

Just imagine if every gun simply locked onto enemies and was a 1hk - very low skill gap. Players would still find ways to differentiate themselves ( knowing the best positions, knowing what routes to take etc) but mechanically, everyone would be similar. This would make for win probability differentials, allowing the dev to feed data to MM system that appears to manage the skill differential, but the games population would be so mechically similar that every game would be a sweat box.

Increasing the skill gap shouldn't make the game less fun, unless the wrong steps are being taken. the goal shouldn't be to make simply make guns weaker- it should be to make a skilled player be able to differentiate themselves with those guns.

The AR, for example, is just as powerful as it's always been, If two low level players who really haven't grasped movement are shooting at each other with the new ARs, their avg kill times should be unchanged. The difference is, If a higher skilled player comes up against an AR user he can actually defend himself. Likewise, a player can actually become GOOD with the AR, by learning to control its spread - rather than the AR being easily mastered by anyone.

I think the biggest problem now is not that guns are harder or less fun, it's that people spent 2 years playing one way which biases what they find fun. Also people are naturally reluctant to change. Many of these changes should have happened no later than 1.5 yrs ago. I also find it weird that they tweaked handling instead of just tweaking magnetism, RRR, and ROF. When you play with peoples muscle memory, things get hairy.
 

Leyasu

Banned
I mean, sorry you're bad at the game? If you wanted to be handed wins because of random chance and not your skill and experience, which is essentially what you are asking for, play something more random and not the competitive component of a competitive FPS. Like Chutes and Ladders.

I wouldn't mind a less competitive focus, but I would do it through playlist selection, not adding stupid random bullshit (tm) to the base gameplay. At least I get a choice on which playlists I play, I don't when it's an attribute of a weapon.


I don't want to, but why does he have to be bad at the game because he thinks that it is trying too hard to cater to the pro scene?

I'm not a halo God like the people that post in this thread, but I do enjoy halo a lot. I'm not really familiar with all the intricacies of the all the halo games, but for me, halo5 does feel much more hardcore,... a lot more infact. Imo halo 5 my is the best halo yet, but fuck me it is intense.

Perhaps making it even more hardcore will improve the game, and separate the gaffer's from the non gaffer's? Who knows? But I can't shake the feeling that being so competitive has negatively impacted the game. Taking away by where you could fuck around with halos cool vehicles imo cannot be replaced by war zone either. Another reason perhaps for its slide in popularity?
 

Trup1aya

Member
I don't want to, but why does he have to be bad at the game because he thinks that it is trying too hard to cater to the pro scene?

I'm not a halo God like the people that post in this thread, but I do enjoy halo a lot. I'm not really familiar with all the intricacies of the all the halo games, but for me, halo5 does feel much more hardcore,... a lot more infact. Imo halo 5 my is the best halo yet, but fuck me it is intense.

Perhaps making it even more hardcore will improve the game, and separate the gaffer's from the non gaffer's? Who knows? But I can't shake the feeling that being so competitive has negatively impacted the game. Taking away by where you could fuck around with halos cool vehicles imo cannot be replaced by war zone either. Another reason perhaps for its slide in popularity?

The point people keep missing is that the game feels competitive BECAUSE there is a small skill gap- Everyone is crowded around the same skill level thanks to how easy all the guns are.

Increasing the skill gap would allow everyone to feel more comfortable at their respective skill level.

We definately gotta get back to when halo was easy to learn, hard to master
 
I mean, for as ultra-competitive as Halo 2 was/is, the weapons never felt difficult to use.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's been months since I've played, and I can't comment on the balance changes, but out of the lack of basic features at launch, a lackluster campaign in both regards to encounter design and story, the frustrating feeling of Halo 5's guns fighting against me was the game's worst sin, and has resulted in the most frustrating Halo multiplayer experience I've yet had, regardless of all the other ingenious design philosophies and touches in the rest of the multiplayer.

That's because it was the first Halo title that was made with networking in mind - bullets would literally bend in midair to home in on players, even with stuff like the sniper rifle or rockets.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
ok, beat destiny and ready to return to halo. looking forward to trying the changes, but i like what i'm reading. i do wonder why spawning isnt BR/AR though - give the BKs something they can feel effective with ;)
 

Trup1aya

Member
Why'd they put random spread on the BR. Don't they know that was hated in H3? Reducing RRR and magnetism was all it needed to reduce its range. Making it Random just removes satisfaction.

Precison weapons should be precise
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Why'd they put random spread on the BR. Don't they know that was hated in H3. Reducing RRR and magnetism was all it needed to reduce its range. Making it Random just removes satisfaction.

Precison weapons should be precise

is it random? did someone shoot a wall and make screens?
 
I tried for an hour last night to find a match in the tuning playlist with my wife and we never got matched with anyone. We tried from 9pm pst until 10.
 

Juan

Member
Did they change something to the Bolshot? I'm using it all the time on Stasis and I'm having a blast! 15 kills, 3 deaths, all from headshot with this weapon, it feels so casual yet so good.
 
Why'd they put random spread on the BR. Don't they know that was hated in H3? Reducing RRR and magnetism was all it needed to reduce its range. Making it Random just removes satisfaction.

Precison weapons should be precise
I dislike that it felt too random in Halo 3, whereas I think it feels much better here.

Even the CE Pistol had spread, so I don't think this is an issue. I'll probably play more today and see if my positive impressions remain.
 
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