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Network lag was never a factor in the original game. It just seems like people are making a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to this whole situation.

Network lag was never a factor in Halo:CE's cooperative mode, yet somehow they managed to add in co-op over XBL. OTOH, Gearbox couldn't even get co-op into Halo PC.

I'm not sure how much of a network engineering feat it would be to get Halo:CE multiplayer on Live. There have been other local/LAN-only multiplayer games that came to Live without any issues. Nobody thought Perfect Dark was a miracle or anything. I have NEVER heard of any other shooter so complex or dependent on network performance that it absolutely could not be played over the internet.

At the same time Gearbox royally screwed the PC multiplayer, and now 343i says it's difficult if not impossible to get Halo:CE on XBL. So that leads me to believe there must be some kind of challenges there. But still....if you can sync up the co-op mode with its multitude of characters, AI, physics, scripted events, etc....how hard would it be to sync up multiplayer where there's more room to account for lag?

 

[thatbox]

...not sure if serious. There was nothing wrong with the original game. The reason it didn't have online multiplayer was because online multiplayer wasn't possible on the Xbox at the time. You also ignore the fact that because it's never been done before, it would take a lot more work to implement it. This is a project that's on a short timeframe. Now sure, they could add online multiplayer for the vocal minority and it might top out in the middle of Major Nelson's activity chart for a couple weeks before falling off into oblivion. And that's if 343i did it right and balanced everything out for online play and spent hundreds of hours playtesting it to make sure it played well online and there were no issues. Of course, that would also take time away from Halo 4, the actual project the studio has been working on. That's like taking time off from your day job to go do some part time work for a buddy. It doesn't make sense.

Besides, they haven't announced what they'll be doing for matchmaking. They might be able to replicate a Halo: Combat Evolved environment on these new maps. It'd be great. I hate the implementation of armor abilities and equipment in the Halo formula and would love for a more streamlined game. But I understand they've got a certain amount of time, limited resources and this is a side project for the studio, nothing more.

I play games for fun, not to get the game up on somebody's chart. Blah blah marketshare, blah blah fractured playerbase, blah blah shareholders. Cool. That's fine. Other people can care about those things. All I want, and all I've wanted for years, is to be able to easily play Halo: CE online. Just take the exact same engine Halo: CE already uses. Have it render in 720p. Shoehorn in some netcode - it doesn't even have to be that great since it's competing with tunneling software from ten years ago. Bam. I'm happy.

 

[Izayoi]

Point me to where I can pick up brand new $360 titles for $40. There's a couple of recent releases I haven't gotten yet and it'd be great to only pay "full price" rather than $60.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Microsoft very rarely does not charge full price for retail games. Sure, it's $40 in the US, but the rest of the world continues to get fucked on pricing.

Izayoi has been a "vociferous disappointed potential customer" for the entire thread now. Non stop. For days. And he's insulted me personally several times. So I am ignoring him. Lots of people have made the same point, politely, and I've responded to them, honestly.

So leveling criticisms at Microsoft is now equivalent to "insulting you personally"? What the fuck? I don't believe that I've ever directly insulted you a single time. My criticisms have been pretty scatter-shot, and more directed at Microsoft as a whole.

Ok... so why is everyone upset then?

Because one of the best parts of the original game, the multiplayer, has been completed ripped out and replaced with "maps reworked for the Halo Reach engine". Not only is it merely a handful of the original maps (assuming that there are Halo 2 maps as well), but they've been changed to accommodate the Reach engine, which as remakes makes them just as hollow and worthless as Blackout. They say they're going to be doing something special to make Reach somehow play like Halo 1, but that doesn't exactly matter when the underlying maps have been changed, now does it?

The reaction to MP was almost verbatim what we predicted it would be, good and bad. 343 is full of old school Halo fans, and people who "get" it. But going into a project like this, with timelines, budgets and production realties to juggle (most of the organization is working exclusively on Halo 4), like any game, is going to mean compromises and tough decisions. Of all of them, MP was going to be the most controversial.

While we feel confident that people will ultimately be very happy with the package when they experience, we are not ignorant of the passion for Halo's original MP. That said, we also have legions of fans who ONLY want Halo 2's MP. Even a fair amount who only want 3's or Reach's.

We can't satisfy all those corners of the community perfectly, so please bear with us. We'll explain more about MP matchmaking and more as we get closer to implementing it. It's not a tease, it's just not baked yet. That's the reality of test and production.

You can't satisfy all of them... so you're just going to say "fuck you" and completely omit the original multiplayer? You couldn't even do online lobbies? You guys decided to just drop it entirely? That's a huge kick in the balls for some of your oldest and most devout fans. Don't misconstrue "you" here as you personally, by the way. These statements are targeted at everyone who was part of the decision making process that resulted in the removal of original multiplayer.

But people are making more of it than what should be expected. I could understand if someone said that the game was going to have online multiplayer, and then 343i pulled the feature at the last minute. That would be something to get angry about.

So it's too much to expect for them to include half of the original game? Are these the kinds of expectations we're going to need to set for all 343 games? We're only going to be getting half of a game? They didn't even include the local multiplayer element of the game, they completely removed all aspects of multiplayer except for campaign cooperative. That's completely ridiculous.

 

[Booshka]

It's extremely reasonable because a) this is a remake and b) the original game never had online MP before. They never announced it was going to have it, they never mentioned it would have it and they never promised anything of the sort before the game was officially announced. You can have lofty, and unreasonable expectations, but don't get mad when they're not met.

Lofty, unreasonable expectations? Xbox Live is the most successful console online platform, it took MS a little while to figure it out, but they did and it is great. Halo CE came out before there was Xbox Live, but they were building it, and every Xbox had an ethernet port and a hard drive. Halo CE essentially made the platform successful. Now they are making a remake 10 YEARS LATER, to celebrate the game that started it all, and it doesn't have online multiplayer on their wildly successful online platform. The reasons have been explained, the logistics are there, and the realities are understandable, but myself and many others, still don't like it. We shouldn't have to explain why we are disappointed, and called unreasonable, with ridiculous demands.

 

[JdFoX187]

I play games for fun, not to get the game up on somebody's chart. Blah blah marketshare, blah blah fractured playerbase, blah blah shareholders. Cool. That's fine. Other people can care about those things. All I want, and all I've wanted for years, is to be able to easily play Halo: CE online. Just take the exact same engine Halo: CE already uses. Have it render in 720p. Shoehorn in some netcode - it doesn't even have to be that great since it's competing with tunneling software from ten years ago. Bam. I'm happy.

Well that's nice and all, but what does it add to the discussion? I want a lot of things -- some more ridiculous than others. That doesn't mean I go demanding everything I want saying "damn everyone, it doesn't matter, I want it and I should get it!" That's a child's argument. Frankie has already said time and time again the interest in online multiplayer does not justify the amount of time and resources it would take to pull it off properly. You know damn well 343i releases this with online MP and it's shit, then everyone bitches that 343i and Microsoft are cashing in on the name, and they're just putting out a shit product and how they don't care about their fans. Oh wait, that's what some of you are doing already. At least with the backlash they're getting right now, they don't have to spend the extra time and money and can dedicate that to something that will actually endure past a month or so.

So it's too much to expect for them to include half of the original game? Are these the kinds of expectations we're going to need to set for all 343 games? We're only going to be getting half of a game? They didn't even include the local multiplayer element of the game, they completely removed all aspects of multiplayer except for campaign cooperative. That's completely ridiculous.

Online multiplayer wasn't in the original game. And they're bringing back seven maps to play. You don't even have to own Reach to play them. And they've already said they're working on ways to try to emulate the classic settings that we used to play. You're twisting the facts and omitting things to support a position that has no grounds.

Lofty, unreasonable expectations? Xbox Live is the most successful console online platform, it took MS a little while to figure it out, but they did and it is great. Halo CE came out before there was Xbox Live, but they were building it, and every Xbox had an ethernet port and a hard drive. Halo CE essentially made the platform successful. Now they are making a remake 10 YEARS LATER, to celebrate the game that started it all, and it doesn't have online multiplayer on their wildly successful online platform. The reasons have been explained, the logistics are there, and the realities are understandable, but myself and many others, still don't like it. We shouldn't have to explain why we are disappointed, and called unreasonable, with ridiculous demands.

The realities are understandable, yet many people on here still continue to throw temper tantrums that they're not getting what they want. Expecting them to add online multiplayer to a shooter that wasn't designed for it within the timeframe the project is being worked on is the definition of lofty and unreasonable, especially when it's a side project.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Network lag was never a factor in Halo:CE's cooperative mode, yet somehow they managed to add in co-op over XBL. OTOH, Gearbox couldn't even get co-op into Halo PC.

Well.. it's obviously the choice they made for where time would be invested.

And it was a great choice in my opinion, if the project was limited by a choice they made the right one.

It was a single player game with an offline multi-player mode that probably only a small fraction of it's buyers ever used.. I was ONE of those people myself.. but I'd be pretty naive to assume I was in the majority.

And really.. not of that matters outside of it being interesting for me to discuss.. my personal preferences were met by this decision.. would I have also liked a full blown Halo-CE multiplayer? Sure.. but my personal priority would be for SP and online co-op.. and we are getting that.. AND.. we are getting a map pack + some sort of game mode for the Reach portion of this.

If it plays NOTHING like CE? Well.. it's still some new content.. something different for me to play with the money I spent.. and it's likely to be FUN regardless. If it's not fun.. well.. that sucks.. back to co-op I guess.

But still....if you can sync up the co-op mode with its multitude of characters, AI, physics, scripted events, etc....how hard would it be to sync up multiplayer where there's more room to account for lag?

MORE room to account?

The actions of AI can be predicted fairly well on both systems.. all they'd have to share are any "random" decisions made.. physics and other aspects don't have to be synced at all.

For multi-player, since each individual player is acting on their own accord, every player has to sync with every other player.

There is much LESS room for accounting for lag.. and in co-op.. it matters a lot less.. you can see 2 things happen slightly differently for each player and it doesn't have a dramatic affect on the gameplay.

 

[Karish]

Wait wait wait.

This game is not going to have online multiplayer!?!?!

 

[Lothars]

Wait wait wait.

This game is not going to have online multiplayer!?!?!

Nope the maps will be used in Reach from what I understand.

 

[The Librarian]

So it's too much to expect for them to include half of the original game? Are these the kinds of expectations we're going to need to set for all 343 games? We're only going to be getting half of a game? They didn't even include the local multiplayer element of the game, they completely removed all aspects of multiplayer except for campaign cooperative. That's completely ridiculous.

Yeah. 343's not going to include MP in Halo 4.

 

[goldenpp72]

Nope the maps will be used in Reach from what I understand.

I thought it was just the maps done with reach online but built into halo 1.

 

[Stinkles]

So leveling criticisms at Microsoft is now equivalent to "insulting you personally"? What the fuck? I don't believe that I've ever directly insulted you a single time. My criticisms have been pretty scatter-shot, and more directed at Microsoft as a whole..

I infered from more than one of your posts that you thought I, personally was either being disingenuous or lying. And tone. If I misinterpreted what you were trying to say, then apologies.

I am trying to keep conversations civil.

Spoiler

"/What exactly is your contribution to society?"

You can't satisfy all of them... so you're just going to say "fuck you" and completely omit the original multiplayer? You couldn't even do online lobbies? You guys decided to just drop it entirely? That's a huge kick in the balls for some of your oldest and most devout fans. Don't misconstrue "you" here as you personally, by the way. These statements are targeted at everyone who was part of the decision making process that resulted in the removal of original multiplayer.

Yeah, I don't really know what to do with a "conversation" like this. I will just keep explaining the reasons and folks can make up their minds when they try the product.

 

[Booshka]

Wait wait wait.

This game is not going to have online multiplayer!?!?!

I like how this happens on almost every page.

EDIT: The OP really needs to be updated with info, in whatever way it's the most understandable. A lot of people have no idea what is in this game, and the OP is vague and incorrect.

 

[Lothars]

I thought it was just the maps done with reach online but built into halo 1.

I don't know, I thought that it was going to be Halo 1 maps in reach.

 

[Izayoi]

Online multiplayer wasn't in the original game. And they're bringing back seven maps to play. You don't even have to own Reach to play them. And they've already said they're working on ways to try to emulate the classic settings that we used to play. You're twisting the facts and omitting things to support a position that has no grounds.

They're bringing back seven maps, except that they're changing them in order to accommodate Reach gameplay. What exactly is the point of trying to "emulate classic settings" if the maps themselves aren't even going to be like the originals? I'll give you a hint: there isn't one. They're doing it so people dumb enough not to realize what's actually going on will be fooled into thinking that 343 actually gives a shit about them.

Wait wait wait.

This game is not going to have online multiplayer!?!?!

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Lofty, unreasonable expectations? Xbox Live is the most successful console online platform, it took MS a little while to figure it out, but they did and it is great. Halo CE came out before there was Xbox Live, but they were building it, and every Xbox had an ethernet port and a hard drive. Halo CE essentially made the platform successful. Now they are making a remake 10 YEARS LATER, to celebrate the game that started it all, and it doesn't have online multiplayer on their wildly successful online platform. The reasons have been explained, the logistics are there, and the realities are understandable, but myself and many others, still don't like it. We shouldn't have to explain why we are disappointed, and called unreasonable, with ridiculous demands.

You make some decent points..

But this product will ship with the ability to play online multi-player.

It's an exaggeration to say it doesn't.

If you dislike the WAY IN WHICH they are implementing online mufti-player (by providing maps running in an existing engine) that is certainly debatable.

It would have been a great homage to Halo's legacy to include a full blown in-engine multi-player.. and you expressed that well, outside of your exaggeration.

 

[JdFoX187]

They're bringing back seven maps, except that they're changing them in order to accommodate Reach gameplay. What exactly is the point of trying to "emulate classic settings" if the maps themselves aren't even going to be like the originals? I'll give you a hint: there isn't one. They're doing it so people dumb enough not to realize what's actually going on will be fooled into thinking that 343 actually gives a shit about them.

Did someone from 343i beat your dog or something? Your unfounded hate is a little disconcerting. The changes will no doubt be minor, just like maps like Beaver Creek, Coagulation, Elongation, Warlock, Tombstone and Desolation were brought over from Halo: CE into Halo 2, and played just as well there. You can babble on with irrational hate all you want, but why not take a step back, take a breath and wait until 343i announces what they're doing on the multiplayer side. They've said they're going to implement some things that should help please some fans spurned by the lack of MP.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Can Bungie maybe just add a BR to Reach or something so I can play that game again?

 

[Booshka]

You make some decent points..

But this product will ship with the ability to play online multi-player.

It's an exaggeration to say it doesn't.

If you dislike the WAY IN WHICH they are implementing online mufti-player (by providing maps running in an existing engine) that is certainly debatable.

It would have been a great homage to Halo's legacy to include a full blown in-engine multi-player.. and you expressed that well, outside of your exaggeration.

The fact that I have to keep saying Halo: Combat Evolved on the Original Xbox with a controller to preface every post is annoying enough. That's the Halo CE that I want remade with online MP.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

They're bringing back seven maps, except that they're changing them in order to accommodate Reach gameplay. What exactly is the point of trying to "emulate classic settings" if the maps themselves aren't even going to be like the originals? I'll give you a hint: there isn't one. They're doing it so people dumb enough not to realize what's actually going on will be fooled into thinking that 343 actually gives a shit about them.

They didn't have to create this whatsoever.

You are taking it as a "kick in the balls" that the feature you most desired from a product that was never a guarantee is being implemented in a way that doesn't satisfy you?

You are being fairly dramatic here IMO. It's understandable to wish a different decision was made.

The rest of us just want to have fun too.

I wanted single-player to stay in the Halo : CE engine.. and that decision WAS made.. and I'm happy about it.. if I was told it was all being done in the Reach engine I'd be disappointed.. but still looking forward to seeing the "Reach version" of Halo : CE.

It would have been fun to fire up exact copies of the multi-player maps too.. but it also might be fun to play the Reach version of those maps.. you are still getting something for your potential dollars that you may spend on this.

Or.. don't buy it.

 

[thatbox]

Well that's nice and all, but what does it add to the discussion? I want a lot of things -- some more ridiculous than others. That doesn't mean I go demanding everything I want saying "damn everyone, it doesn't matter, I want it and I should get it!" That's a child's argument. Frankie has already said time and time again the interest in online multiplayer does not justify the amount of time and resources it would take to pull it off properly. You know damn well 343i releases this with online MP and it's shit, then everyone bitches that 343i and Microsoft are cashing in on the name, and they're just putting out a shit product and how they don't care about their fans. Oh wait, that's what some of you are doing already. At least with the backlash they're getting right now, they don't have to spend the extra time and money and can dedicate that to something that will actually endure past a month or so.

I don't think that this product as it exists shows "how they don't care about their fans," I think it just shows that they care more about Reach fans than CE fans, and I'm disappointed that a product meant to celebrate the tenth anniversary of CE isn't aimed at the people who loved and played that game. I completely understand the perverse incentives to do it this way; I'm sure they're quite proficient with the Reach map editors and can churn map packs out with little to no effort. I'm sure tweaking weapon damage profiles or whatever just takes some number-changing in a text editor. This game will sell boatloads whatever they do, so this approach is going to give them a great return on investment.

It's just not for me anymore, I guess. It's not for Halo: CE players, which is what I am. I couldn't get into 2, 3 or Reach MP. LANs I hosted and attended up until a couple years ago were always CE LANs, without fail. Again, I understand the internal political and fiscal realities that drove the game in this direction. I'm just disappointed and sad that the resurgence of CE MP that I was hoping for will never happen.

The realities are understandable, yet many people on here still continue to throw temper tantrums that they're not getting what they want. Expecting them to add online multiplayer to a shooter that wasn't designed for it within the timeframe the project is being worked on is the definition of lofty and unreasonable, especially when it's a side project.

Sure, but still, it's not like they had to start from scratch. Gearbox did some initial heavy lifting for getting multiplayer online. While it's not great, they've explained the reasons for it in detail on public forums. It seems like with the advancing of time and technology, a problem that has already been solved twice (XBC/XLink Kai, Halo PC) could be solved even better and even easier in 2011. I honestly didn't think it would be so monumentally hard to add online to Halo: CE, and I'd really love to see eventually a full Gamasutra-style post-mortem on the technical details that are apparently so arcane that they can keep a game's multiplayer frozen in 2001.

 

[JdFoX187]

Can Bungie maybe just add a BR to Reach or something so I can play that game again?

There's a better weapon. It's called the DMR and is actually accurate without the ridiculous spread of the BR.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

The fact that I have to keep saying Halo: Combat Evolved on the Original Xbox with a controller to preface every post is annoying enough. That's the Halo CE that I want remade with online MP.

Well, there's a lot of confusion in this thread.. factually incorrect statements really don't help. They never really help any discussion be constructive.

 

[erpg]

Frankie, can you explain to us what you can't do with playlists? Is Reach capable of weapon damage range changes, bloom changes, reworking of armor lock functionality (3 second duration, and deplete the whole cooldown on use so we stop seeing lock, nade, lock!)? I think a lot of people would like some clarification on what not to expect from a title update or 343i Halo playlist management for the next year or more while Halo 4 is in the oven. I've heard many things are hard coded into the map files themselves, so maybe only the new CE maps would have better functionality? If so, that sucks, and I hope you hit a home run with Halo 4.

 

[Syracuse022]

I will just keep explaining the reasons and folks can make up their minds when they try the product.

Demo? I'm not going to pay 40 dollars to "try" a product.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Goddamn, these discussions are insane. People at HBO (myself included) are bitching about the story stuff (though that mostly has to do with Halo 4), and here 343's getting bombs thrown at them for not including Halo: CE's multiplayer. I'm starting to feel bad for them. :lol I'm just not even going to get into the argument anymore, the points have been made.

What I will say is this: Frankie (and by extension, everyone at 343), you've still got my trust. For this remake especially. Spending your (what I assume to be) limited budget on remaking the most memorable part of Halo: CE was a good call. Some graphical annoyances aside, the game looks great, and for that price, I'll definitely be there day 1.

As for Halo 4, while I'm still a bit concerned as to where the series might be headed, I'm still giving you the benefit of the doubt. Practically everything you've done storywise so far has been great, I can't see why this wouldn't be, either. Blow me away at Halofest, and I'll gladly jump back onto the barricades to defend Halo 4, as well as this one.

 

[GloveSlap]

I like how this happens on almost every page.

EDIT: The OP really needs to be updated with info, in whatever way it's the most understandable. A lot of people have no idea what is in this game, and the OP is vague and incorrect.

I had the same response originally, so i cant really fault the people not keeping up. To be fair the E3 reveal trailer was pretty confusing as well.

I don't think the expectation of the original multiplayer is unrealistic at all, despite what some in this thread think. In fact, that inclusion was part of my most grounded notions of what the game was going to be, which is what makes it so shocking.

I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed customers that find out about the situation only after they buy and open the game. At that point it is too late since no store takes opened software for return.

 

[border]

Online multiplayer wasn't in the original game.

There was a LAN/splitscreen multiplayer mode in the original game. And 13 multiplayer maps. From the sound of things we won't even be getting half of the original Halo:CE maps, since some of the 7 maps they are touting will be from other Halo games. On that count alone I think it's fair to say that half the original is missing.

I think it's entirely reasonable to expect XBL multiplayer from the remake, but barring that then at least throw in the LAN mode with all the proper maps.

It was a single player game with an offline multi-player mode that probably only a small fraction of it's buyers ever used.. I was ONE of those people myself.. but I'd be pretty naive to assume I was in the majority.

Can you honestly believe that not many Halo:CE owners tried the multiplayer? The game consistently charted on the NPD for years after its release. It was the Goldeneye of its generation. You don't do that without multiplayer longevity. Many people did not experience LAN parties, but plenty played Slayer splitscreen and stuff like that. To claim otherwise would be insanity. I'd argue that the majority of Halo owners at least tried multiplayer, and a not insignificant portion played it pretty regularly.

 

[The Librarian]

Goddamn, these discussions are insane. People at HBO (myself included) are bitching about the story stuff (though that mostly has to do with Halo 4), and here 343's getting bombs thrown at them for not including Halo: CE's multiplayer. I'm starting to feel bad for them. :lol I'm just not even going to get into the argument anymore, the points have been made.

What I will say is this: Frankie (and by extension, everyone at 343), you've still got my trust. For this remake especially. Spending your (what I assume to be) limited budget on remaking the most memorable part of Halo: CE was a good call. Some graphical annoyances aside, the game looks great, and for that price, I'll definitely be there day 1.

As for Halo 4, while I'm still a bit concerned as to where the series might be headed, I'm still giving you the benefit of the doubt. Practically everything you've done storywise so far has been great, I can't see why this wouldn't be, either. Blow me away at Halofest, and I'll gladly jump back onto the barricades to defend Halo 4, as well as this one.

Show me. And why?

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

I'm disappointed that a product meant to celebrate the tenth anniversary of CE isn't aimed at the people who loved and played that game.
.
.
.
It's not for Halo: CE players, which is what I am.

I bought an Xbox for Halo : CE.. I own every Legendary edition since.. I own both a Legendary Edition copy or Reach AND a Reach Slim 360.

My favorite Halo, by far, is CE.

I am EXTATIC about this re-release.. and feel like they basically made it to my specifications..

It's for me, and I am a Halo : CE player.

My point being, you don't speak for everyone. You speak for yourself, and it sucks you are disappointed, but I feel like a lot of you are projecting your own tastes onto the Halo legacy.. I believe Halo : CE's main place in the history of gaming was for it's amazing single-player campaign, and ushering in an era where most games support some sort of co-op mode.

It ALSO had an extremely fun multi-player mode... but I would immagine it's secondary overall for the majority of people.

 

[JdFoX187]

I don't think that this product as it exists shows "how they don't care about their fans," I think it just shows that they care more about Reach fans than CE fans, and I'm disappointed that a product meant to celebrate the tenth anniversary of CE isn't aimed at the people who loved and played that game. I completely understand the perverse incentives to do it this way; I'm sure they're quite proficient with the Reach map editors and can churn map packs out with little to no effort. I'm sure tweaking weapon damage profiles or whatever just takes some number-changing in a text editor. This game will sell boatloads whatever they do, so this approach is going to give them a great return on investment.

It's just not for me anymore, I guess. It's not for Halo: CE players, which is what I am. I couldn't get into 2, 3 or Reach MP. LANs I hosted and attended up until a couple years ago were always CE LANs, without fail. Again, I understand the internal political and fiscal realities that drove the game in this direction. I'm just disappointed and sad that the resurgence of CE MP that I was hoping for will never happen.

Why do you pass your views off for all fans of Halo: CE? I played the hell out of Combat Evolved as much as any other person. I bought an Xbox for it. I played the hell out of Halo 2 when it came out. Halo 3, not so much. But I love Reach just as much as the first two games. So when you talk about CE fans, there are more people out there that like it and the other games in the series rather than those that just like the original. It's obvious there have to be since the games continue to sell more with each iteration.

That being said, this game isn't just aimed at Combat Evolved fans. If anything, it's aimed at those who may have hopped into the series later on. I know people that bought Halo 2, Halo 3, etc. but refuse to play the original because the graphics are dated and some excuses like that. This gives them the opportunity to do that. First and foremost, Halo is about the campaign experience and the universe it's set in. Sure, most players stay for the multiplayer, but this isn't Call of Duty, where the campaign is a mere afterthought. Most people buy the game to experience the story, and that's exemplified through this release.

343i could have just reskinned the campaign and called it a day, without any added features or any maps at all. Or they could have gone through and completely remade the game complete with updated gameplay, new enemy encounters with the updated A.I., fixing some levels like Library and adding in a full multiplayer suite complete with a bunch of other bullet point features. But I think Halo 3 proved that all the bullet point features can't hide the quality of the game.

They went with the safest route possible in bringing the game everyone loved back with a new coat of paint and with a group of maps that will help sustain the population of the present Halo game. There is just more work that would have to be implemented to get the game running for online MP than would really be worth it. Because even with the vocal minority posting on here, I'm sure most will buy the game. And the few that don't will no doubt be eclipsed by the millions that will buy it anyway. Smart business decision. And as a gamer, look at it like Halo 4 is the next big thing, and adding features into a 10 year-old game would only take away resources from it.

 

[clav]

Can Bungie maybe just add a BR to Reach or something so I can play that game again?

BR is overpowered.

I used to hate the DMR, but now I love it.

 

[Izayoi]

The changes will no doubt be minor, just like maps like Beaver Creek, Coagulation, Elongation, Warlock, Tombstone and Desolation were brought over from Halo: CE into Halo 2, and played just as well there.

Beaver Creek and Warlock, maybe. The rest are insults to the originals.

You are taking it as a "kick in the balls" that the feature you most desired from a product that was never a guarantee is being implemented in a way that doesn't satisfy you?

Or.. don't buy it.

The problem isn't that it's being implemented incorrectly, it's that it's not being implemented at all.

Unless something drastic changes between here and launch, I won't be buying it.

 

[erpg]

Goddamn, these discussions are insane. People at HBO (myself included) are bitching about the story stuff (though that mostly has to do with Halo 4), and here 343's getting bombs thrown at them for not including Halo: CE's multiplayer.

It was a minute and a half long teaser, for cripe's sake. I thought we went over this canon thing in the Reach thread.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

Can you honestly believe that not many Halo:CE owners tried the multiplayer? The game consistently charted on the NPD for years after its release. It was the Goldeneye of its generation. You don't do that without multiplayer longevity. Many people did not experience LAN parties, but plenty played Slayer splitscreen and stuff like that. To claim otherwise would be insanity. I'd argue that the majority of Halo owners at least tried multiplayer, and a not insignificant portion played it pretty regularly.

What?

Grand Theft Auto was the best selling game of that generation.. each game consistently charted in NPD for months or years after release.

That game had no multi-player component to speak of.

So yes, I can honestly say that I don't believe the majority of Halo : CE purchasers played much of the multi-player.

The game was hyped and re-hyped and then some for it's campaign, and for it's graphics and basic technology. Multiplayer was a major feature, but it played second fiddle to the single-player.

I could certainly be wrong.. but I don't think it's an insane guess.

Halo 2 was really the game where the tide turned and multi-player became a huge focus for the series.. which was a huge letdown for many Halo CE fans.. including myself.

 

[The Librarian]

Jdfox187 has it right. Halo is first a foremost a single-player experience: "Come for the campaign, stay for the multiplayer."

 

[GhaleonEB]

Goddamn, these discussions are insane. People at HBO (myself included) are bitching about the story stuff (though that mostly has to do with Halo 4), and here 343's getting bombs thrown at them for not including Halo: CE's multiplayer. I'm starting to feel bad for them. :lol I'm just not even going to get into the argument anymore, the points have been made.

What I will say is this: Frankie (and by extension, everyone at 343), you've still got my trust. For this remake especially. Spending your (what I assume to be) limited budget on remaking the most memorable part of Halo: CE was a good call. Some graphical annoyances aside, the game looks great, and for that price, I'll definitely be there day 1.

Aye. This is one of those cases where I really wish a project had gone a different direction while still respecting the direction it went in. And if you translate the direction the reissue is going in to Halo 4, I see good things ahead. It's clear from the nature of the project and how it's been handled how much these guys love Halo and want to do right by it. So even though I have a strong opinion about what I wanted to see - and am not getting - I'm having a hard time getting too upset about it. Because there is literally no way to make everyone happy, and there is much in the package I do like.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

The problem isn't that it's being implemented incorrectly, it's that it's not being implemented at all..

That is just factually incorrect.

The product ships with a multi-player component. Why are you guys continually repeating that it doesn't?

They would have been better off hiding behind the Reach engine then actually telling you guys how it's going to be implemented.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Show me. And why?

It's pretty much died down by now, but there was a lot of talk about the way the Halo 4 teaser looked so 'different'. Bitching on HBO is still pretty tame compared to internet standards, though. We did get Louis Wu to awake from his not-so-silent vigil. :lol

A lot of people have lost a bit of their faith in the Halo canon, especially after Reach. Seeing stuff like the Chief's new armor, his thrusters, Cortana's new look and so on, upset some of the hardcore story fans.

Aye. This is one of those cases where I really wish a project had gone a different direction while still respecting the direction it went in. And if you translate the direction the reissue is going in to Halo 4, I see good things ahead. It's clear from the nature of the project and how it's been handled how much these guys love Halo and want to do right by it. So even though I have a strong opinion about what I wanted to see - and am not getting - I'm having a hard time getting too upset about it. Because there is literally no way to make everyone happy, and there is much in the package I do like.

Wise words. I'm not 100% happy with everyhing we're getting, either, but 343's doing an amazing job at keeping the fans involved and updated. I think we may grow to appreciate them a lot more in the long dark after Bungie pulls the plug.

 

[JdFoX187]

Beaver Creek and Warlock, maybe. The rest are insults to the originals.


The problem isn't that it's being implemented incorrectly, it's that it's not being implemented at all.

Unless something drastic changes between here and launch, I won't be buying it.

Is there a reason they're insults? I've played on all of them extensively, and the Halo 2 variants are better in every way, with the exception of Tombstone. Throwing out blanket statements doesn't reaffirm your point at all.

And I'm sure if it actually had MP, and you bought the game, you would no doubt be complaining that it's not what you remember it to be. Because it would never be the same played over the Internet as compared to playing at a LAN. Too many factors. And then you would sell the game and still complain about how 343i shits on the fans.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Jdfox187 has it right. Halo is first a foremost a single-player experience: "Come for the campaign, stay for the multiplayer."

That's certainly true for me. The campaign is why I wanted a remake in the first place, the bloody PAL version of the original doesn't run on my monitor!

 

[border]

Sure, but still, it's not like they had to start from scratch. Gearbox did some initial heavy lifting for getting multiplayer online. While it's not great, they've explained the reasons for it in detail on public forums.

Can you link me to some of Gearbox's explanations? Maybe it's just not for laymen to understand, but I've never seen any explanation for why Halo CE wouldn't work over the internet.

I've actually boycotted Gearbox games for years on account of how badly they screwed up Halo PC, but now even 343/Bungie are claiming multiplayer can't be done. If that's god's honest truth then I may be willing to give Gearbox another chance (just in time for Duke Nuken Forever).

 

[Vanwadilion]

Jdfox187 has it right. Halo is first a foremost a single-player experience: "Come for the campaign, stay for the multiplayer."

I would love to see the proof of this.

 

[Zabka]

They went with the safest route possible

I agree. I'd rather they just get online working and leave the graphics alone, but they're a business and a new coat of paint is enough for some people to buy it. It's fine, they want to make money, but it still sucks.

 

[JdFoX187]

I would love to see the proof of this.

I would love to see proof that people only buy the game for the multiplayer. See, I can make dumb accusations too.

 

[The Librarian]

Aye. This is one of those cases where I really wish a project had gone a different direction while still respecting the direction it went in. And if you translate the direction the reissue is going in to Halo 4, I see good things ahead. It's clear from the nature of the project and how it's been handled how much these guys love Halo and want to do right by it. So even though I have a strong opinion about what I wanted to see - and am not getting - I'm having a hard time getting too upset about it. Because there is literally no way to make everyone happy, and there is much in the package I do like.

Ghaleon, you wanted CE MP in the remake?

 

[Izayoi]

I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed customers that find out about the situation only after they buy and open the game. At that point it is too late since no store takes opened software for return.

It's borderline false advertising at this point. But hey, it's all about the money. Who cares if a handful of loyal fans get fucked over because of it? Gotta keep that bottom line healthy, after all.

It ALSO had an extremely fun multi-player mode... but I would immagine it's secondary overall for the majority of people.

You would imagine incorrectly. All of the LAN parties and sleep overs and time spent with friends with the original multiplayer is what I remember the most about Halo CE. We spent many more hours playing multiplayer when we were younger than we did doing anything else. Everyone I knew who was my age had the same experience.

That is just factually incorrect.

The product ships with a multi-player component. Why are you guys continually repeating that it doesn't?

They would have been better off hiding behind the Reach engine then actually telling you guys how it's going to be implemented.

It doesn't ship with its own multiplayer component, it ships with Reach's multiplayer component.

And I'm sure if it actually had MP, and you bought the game, you would no doubt be complaining that it's not what you remember it to be. Because it would never be the same played over the Internet as compared to playing at a LAN. Too many factors. And then you would sell the game and still complain about how 343i shits on the fans.

Thanks for being presumptuous and telling me what I would've done in the future. I've played XBC and Halo PC for years. Anything would be better than nothing, but they chose to give us nothing.

 

[GloveSlap]

Jdfox187 has it right. Halo is first a foremost a single-player experience: "Come for the campaign, stay for the multiplayer."

Not to any Halo player I have ever met. Until this thread I thought everyone (except Bungie) considered the campaign to be just a bonus part. Halo is a single player experience in the same way that Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, and the Aki Wrestling were.

 

[JdFoX187]

Not to any Halo player I have ever met. Until this thread I thought everyone (except Bungie) considered the campaign to be just a bonus part. Halo is a single player experience in the same way that Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, and the Aki Wrestling were.

Goldeneye was first and foremost a single player experience for me. The same with Halo in all of its iterations.

Thanks for being presumptuous and telling me what I would've done in the future. I've played XBC and Halo PC for years. Anything would be better than nothing, but they chose to give us nothing.

It would fit the ridiculously self-entitled attitude you have at the moment.

It's borderline false advertising at this point. But hey, it's all about the money. Who cares if a handful of loyal fans get fucked over because of it? Gotta keep that bottom line healthy, after all.

And how is this false advertisement? They never announced original online multiplayer!

 

[Izayoi]

I would love to see proof that people only buy the game for the multiplayer. See, I can make dumb accusations too.

Try half of this thread, maybe? Try all of my friends in real life? Try entire forums that I frequent?

Halo is a single player experience in the same way that Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, and the Aki Wrestling were.

Pretty much.

 

[The Librarian]

It's pretty much died down by now, but there was a lot of talk about the way the Halo 4 teaser looked so 'different'. Bitching on HBO is still pretty tame compared to internet standards, though. We did get Louis Wu to awake from his not-so-silent vigil. :lol

A lot of people have lost a bit of their faith in the Halo canon, especially after Reach. Seeing stuff like the Chief's new armor, his thrusters, Cortana's new look and so on, upset some of the hardcore story fans.

Eh. I only oppose the armor change because, judging from the trailer, it looks bad.