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[Blue Ninja]

Ghaleon, you wanted CE MP in the remake?

I know he wanted Theater mode, as did I. Kinda sucks it didn't make it in, but it's understandable.

Eh. I only oppose the armor change because, judging from the trailer, it looks bad.

Heh, I agree. It looked like it came straight out of a Halo Legends episode. That's what a lot of the discussion was about, as well: people just not liking the style. Leviathan had a pretty good write-up about it over on HBO.

 

[JdFoX187]

Try half of this thread, maybe? Try all of my friends in real life? Try entire forums that I frequent?

Pretty much.

You and a few vocal others are the only ones proclaiming this game lived and died by its MP. Others have pointed out games like GTA, and I'll go further and say Assassin's Creed, God of War and many others that have been just as successful as single player games. But according to you, a game can only be successful and enduring if it has MP.

 

[thatbox]

Can you link me to some of Gearbox's explanations? Maybe it's just not for laymen to understand, but I've never seen any explanation for why Halo CE wouldn't work over the internet.

I've actually boycotted Gearbox games for years on account of how badly they screwed up Halo PC, but now even 343/Bungie are claiming multiplayer can't be done. If that's god's honest truth then I may be willing to give Gearbox another chance (just in time for Duke Nuken Forever).

Yeah, some of it is here.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Not to any Halo player I have ever met. Until this thread I thought everyone (except Bungie) considered the campaign to be just a bonus part. Halo is a single player experience in the same way that Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, and the Aki Wrestling were.

I would've thought Halo CE is more widely known and loved for its great campaign, while Halo 2 gets more praise for its multiplayer.

 

[border]

What?

Grand Theft Auto was the best selling game of that generation.. each game consistently charted in NPD for months or years after release.

Grand Theft Auto had nowhere near the longevity. Halo:CE was in the Top 10 games of 2004. Three years after its original release. Even with Halo 2 on the horizon, even with more full-featured XBL-compatible titles competing in the market:

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2004_in_review

Only the first GTA really had a long lifespan -- everything else was very front-loaded. LANs were difficult to come by, but 4-player splitscreen was more than good. To say nobody touched it is like saying most people played Mario Kart for the circuit/campaign.

Halo 2 was really the game where the tide turned and multi-player became a huge focus for the series.. which was a huge letdown for many Halo CE fans.. including myself.

If multiplayer wasn't a big deal in the original Halo, then why did Halo 2 multiplayer explode so completely and immediately?

Even if one were to concede the point that maybe not everyone tried Halo:CE multiplayer, isn't that all the more reason to accurately re-create it in a more modern form? It's fantastic, and it's important that it be preserved in some way.

 

[The Librarian]

Not to any Halo player I have ever met. Until this thread I thought everyone (except Bungie) considered the campaign to be just a bonus part. Halo is a single player experience in the same way that Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, and the Aki Wrestling were.

Not so. Every time a Halo game is revealed, it's always about campaign. Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, ODST, and Reach. And now Halo 4. Hell, if Halo was multiplayer first and foremost, ODST would've been nothing but Firefight. Same goes for Halo Wars. Plus, you don't see books about Mario Kart's or Smash Bro's story.

 

[CyReN]

I love the single player..a lot but the mp would make the title timeless. It just sucks that my friends and I have to lug around crt/og xboxes or use xbc to play h1 mp after 10 years. Their excuse on not doing it is pathetic, no logical reasoning at all.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Ghaleon, you wanted CE MP in the remake?

No. I was referring to this post.

Though, it just occured to me that I've never commented on the MP side of things. I don't have any nostalgia for Halo 1's MP. I played a fair amount of it at LAN parties after work back in the day, and it was a blast. But I'm not chomping at the bit to return to it, it had a lot of problems and I enjoyed Halo 2 and Halo 3's MP more. Plus, I never for a moment expected to see Halo 1's MP included. I always expected remakes from series brought to Reach's MP as map packs, which is what we got. Can't say I'm disappointed.

I have no issues with the MP side of things. Six remakes from throughout the series plus a Firefight map set in the Halo 1 campaign sounds just dandy to me. (I don't think Reach's gameplay - in particular the range and precision of the DMR - will translate well to the older maps, though.)

I'm bummed about the direction the Campaign went. Only two player co-op, no theater, just a reskin and no updated gameplay (much of Halo's gameplay is a result of a lack of time, and it strikes me as odd to preserve it as the only option).

 

[Gandie]

I tried to replay CE on my 360 yesterday with a friend. Damn, they really fucked up the emulation, it ran with like 15 fps and a ton of input lag. Very disappointing.

 

[Booshka]

I love the single player..a lot but the mp would make the title timeless. It just sucks that my friends and I have to lug around crt/og xboxes or use xbc to play h1 mp after 10 years. Their excuse on not doing it is pathetic, no logical reasoning at all.

keep babying those original Xbox controllers, they are in for the long haul.

 

[CyReN]

keep babying those original Xbox controllers, they are in for the long haul.

Luckily got a s on ebay a few months back.

Here's some clips from a lan a little while back for those that like h1. (comedyish)

I'm bottom screen

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I infered from more than one of your posts that you thought I, personally was either being disingenuous or lying. And tone. If I misinterpreted what you were trying to say, then apologies.

I am trying to keep conversations civil.

Spoiler

"/What exactly is your contribution to society?"

Yeah, I don't really know what to do with a "conversation" like this. I will just keep explaining the reasons and folks can make up their minds when they try the product.

Sorry Frankie, but you have to admit that a lot of the people who were calling for a Halo 1 remake were doing it in the context of wanting to play multiplayer over live. I would bet money on the fact that the vast majority calling for the remakes are mostly interested in them for the multiplayer component. So with this 'remake' your basically dashing peoples hopes of ever playing Halo CE over live.

That said I have faith in you guys and its clear that you are cooking up something in the multiplayer department, but personally I would have rather just waited for a full port of ye old faithful.

 

[The Librarian]

I'm bummed about the direction the Campaign went. Only two player co-op, no theater, just a reskin and no updated gameplay (much of Halo's gameplay is a result of a lack of time, and it strikes me as odd to preserve it as the only option).

Yeah, I wish the campaign had more. Theater especially. Updated gameplay mechanics that wouldn't affect the core experience (being able to swap weapons with Marines, etc) would've been great.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Pretty much.

That and legendary coop. Actually mostly legendary coop.

 

[border]

You and a few vocal others are the only ones proclaiming this game lived and died by its MP. Others have pointed out games like GTA, and I'll go further and say Assassin's Creed, God of War and many others that have been just as successful as single player games. But according to you, a game can only be successful and enduring if it has MP.

None of those games were charting on the NPD 3 years after they were released. Assassin's Creed and God of War don't even chart beyond the MONTH they are released in, usually.

There have been franchises that sold as many or more copies as Halo, but they are largely front-loaded in sales. The franchises that sell month-after-month-after-month do it because of multiplayer.

Every time a Halo game is revealed, it's always about campaign.

You realize that has everything to do with how the PR department wants to release information, and nothing to do with how players actually use and enjoy the game? Modern Warfare's PR campaign begins with a focus on the singleplayer game as well.

 

[Sibylus]

Can you link me to some of Gearbox's explanations? Maybe it's just not for laymen to understand, but I've never seen any explanation for why Halo CE wouldn't work over the internet.

I've actually boycotted Gearbox games for years on account of how badly they screwed up Halo PC, but now even 343/Bungie are claiming multiplayer can't be done. If that's god's honest truth then I may be willing to give Gearbox another chance (just in time for Duke Nuken Forever).

The Halo PC forums over there were closed a few years ago afaik, but this appears to be a reposting of the original post: http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=303941

Talking Elmo,

One CD - Mandated by Bungie / MS *after* the deal was done and the resources were allocated.

56k support - Mandated by Bungie / MS *after* the deal was done and the resources were allocated.

Fixed function support - Mandated by Bungie / MS *after* the deal was done and the resources were allocated.

Each of these key mandates affected the amount of available programming resources AND the technical decisions that went into the game.

It's hard to say these were bad decisions. By just about every traditional metric, Halo PC is a success and a hit. Great reviews, great sales, etc. So, perhaps Microsoft and Bungie were right on target with all of their decisions with the game.

On the other hand, there are a few folks that didn't have their expectations met.

I think this is my fault. I come from a competitive gaming background and I saw that Halo PC had the potential to be a good platform for competitive gaming. I know that I had a good faith commitment from Bungie to go heavy on the on-line stuff and for post-launch support. So, I talked with Angel about it. We decided we would create the Assault game mode for the CPL and he decided that Halo would have a CPL competition.

I think the CPL was really hoping Halo PC was going to be their key competitive platform, too. It makes sense, becasue there's a big gap right now. I mean, they're using Painkiller now, right?

But, I guess Halo PC wasn't meant to be a competitive platform.

It turns out that some of the required specifications for the internet game have affected the LAN game. It turns out that while it's acceptable for hard-core gamers to cope with the back side lag from a client authoritative model (CS) it's not acceptable for hard-core gamers to cope with the front side lag from a server authoritative model. It turns out that with the physics and vehicles of Halo that there wasn't even a choice...

But there are many decisions that affected things. Decisions not made at Gearbox, but that some folks want to blame Gearbox for.

The 1 CD decision affected the cache files stuff - affected Halo CE. Nothing we could or can do.

The fixed function decision sucked man-months of engineering time away from other things. Nothing we could or can do.

The 56k decision affected the accuracy and frequency of the network updates. Nothing we could or can do.

One thing that I'm curious about is why we don't see more people playing Xbox Halo via tunnel if it's so much better.

Halo Xbox sold about four times as many units as Halo PC. Yet, there are about 30 times as many people playing various Halo PC games as are playing Xbox tunnel games...

I think for LAN play a deterministic, synchronous system is about as fair as it gets. I was once one of the best Doom 2 players in the entire world. I know all about it. But, even with that daisy-chain networking system, we used to ***** and moan and whine that the "green" doomguy had some kind of inherant advantage and the reason was locked away in the source code somewhere. Since the source code was released, I still haven't been able to figure it out, but I'm sure it's there. We were all sure it's there.

Halo PC netcode is what it is for a reason. It had to be the way it is and any experienced and capable networking programmer would've made similar conclusions.

I know we don't like the answer - I know *I* don't like the answer - but it's a true answer.

As we got to the end of the project, I pushed hard. I wanted that same feel as the synched/deterministic LAN game on the Xbox. The engineers sat me down and told me the score, drew diagrams about the software architecture, the way the internet works and the challenges that they faced with the specification and they showed me why it had to be that way. The specification dictated the code and vice versa. For the last several months, the Bungie and Microsoft guys were in it just as deep as the Gearbox guys were - writing code, prioritizing tasks, etc. It was a group effort and it was pretty hard-core, non-stop - even bonding, if you can call it that.

The things that changed between the beta version and the final version of Halo PC were *required* in order to fit the specification of 56k. These changes were driven by the bug database and every bit of code change was crosschecked by multiple Gearbox AND Bungie / MS engineers.

The beta code you think was great was actually Gearbox netcode. The fact that it was less laggy is revealing about Gearbox's holding out for a broadband standard. But, the specification was mandated for us. Halo PC is a work for hire and, as professionals, the Gearbox developers did what they were told. After all, it was not their property, it was Microsoft's / Bungie's.

It's really frustrating for us to get the finger pointed at us for decisions we are not responsible for. It's even more frustrating when we try to be diplomatic about it and then we get blamed even more. We don't want to point fingers at Microsoft because we understand their decisions. I'm not sure if I would've made the same decisions if I was in their position, but it's possible.

I do know that the guys at Gearbox who did this work are about the best in the world. I know that Microsoft and Bungie agrees with that. I know that they were about as committed as you can get. They worked very hard and had to solve some very, very tricky problems. I'm going to stand up for them, of course. Even if it means that in order to stand up for them I have to suggest that maybe some of the specifications are the blame. I'm going to stand up for them even if it means that Parsons may worry about the effect some of the things I say has on him or that you guys may not trust me as much. I'm going to trust them because I believe in them and because when they sit down and explain it, they really know what they're talking about.

Are they perfect, of course not - nobody is. Is it possible that some of the problem is some mistake they may have made, but don't know about? Sure, but not likely. I know that these guys are amongst the best in the world - I know that for fact. They had a tough problem with impossible specifications and impossible expectations. Yet they did it. They did it pretty well, too. Tons of people play the Halo PC games - more than most new launches. Sure, I wish the game was perfect. But, I'm still proud of it. I still love playing it. And I'm proud of the guys here that worked on it.

I have no idea what happened to you, Elmo, to make you such a bitter, angry person. But dude - you've got to relax. I can't figure out what your objective is... Perhaps you're just frustrated because you want a perfect Halo PC on-line game and you know you can't have it. Hell, I'm frustrated too. I want it to be perfect.

I promise you that it is infinitely better for me for Halo PC to have a perfect on-line game than it is for you. No one wants that more than me or the guys at Gearbox (and the guys at Bungie, for that matter).

I can't figure out what kind of consipiracy you think is going on that Gearbox AND Bungie wouldn't want that - together.

But it's time for a reality check. I don't get anything out of it by lying to you. How does that help me or Gearbox?

Maybe you've still got latent frustration that Bungie is now owned by Microsoft? Or that what was once going to be a PC and Mac game because an Xbox game and along the way so much of the promise was manipulated. Maybe you were hoping some of that promise would come back with the PC port Gearbox did?

I imagine that without Microsoft's influence, Bungie may have made slightly different specification decisions. On the other hand, maybe not.

But, it is what it is.

I don't know what you want. I don't know if this community should even have the patience. I know that the mods don't have much patience for members who aren't contributing to the community.

I don't blame them.

You be how you want to be. I just ask that you think about your goal - what is the end-state that you're striving for? Once you've figured that out, you should do things that help you achieve your goal...

I can't think of any goal that you're working towards achieving now. I could imagine that you're trying to hurt Gearbox, but I'm sure if that was your goal you'd be able to do a much better job Of course, if that was your goal, you'd be banned by now...

I just think this community is strongest if it's cool with itself. I think any community is strongest if it's cool with itself.

If you can't be cool - go somewhere else where you can be cool. You know the score...

 

[Blue Ninja]

No. I was referring to this post.

You make some great points there. I'll be honest, I was expecting something more along the lines of what you wrote down in there, too. Hadn't really thought about it ever since the whole Halo 4-storm, though. What we're getting is mostly a way to celebrate the past without changing things up too much, and while it isn't exactly what I (or you) wanted, I still think it looks pretty great on itself. Which is pretty much the point of your previous post. :lol

As I said, I'll be there Day 1. I'll pick it up together with Assassin's Creed: Revelations. I probably won't be playing either of them that day, though, as they're competing with motherfucking Skyrim, which is a battle they're probably going to lose by default. :lol

 

[Gui_PT]

Halo CE is definitely about the campaign.

Sucks that we won't get MP but at least we'll be getting the best campaign ever to be in a game.

And I don't understand why people are complaining. You think Frankie would work on a CE remake and not include MP just because? (Re)Making games is never simple. There are always tons of problems, no matter how much time or resources you have. They had to make a choice and I believe they made the best choice they could've made.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yeah, I wish the campaign had more. Theater especially. Updated gameplay mechanics that wouldn't affect the core experience (being able to swap weapons with Marines, etc) would've been great.

Yeah. The reason you can't use the Wraith in Halo 1 is because they didn't have time to get it working. Imagine being able to use. Or board vehicles. Or...gah. I'll stop now.

For that reason I really want to know what other extras are in the campaign. Something like skulls and medals and campaign scoring would go a long ways with me.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Yeah. The reason you can't use the Wraith in Halo 1 is because they didn't have time to get it working. Imagine being able to use. Or board vehicles. Or...gah. I'll stop now.

For that reason I really want to know what other extras are in the campaign. Something like skulls and medals and campaign scoring would go a long ways with me.

The 'terminals' sound pretty interesting, at least. Especially the way they're supposedly going to tie into Halo 4.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Halo CE is definitely about the campaign.

Sucks that we won't get MP but at least we'll be getting the best campaign ever to be in a game.

And I don't understand why people are complaining. You think Frankie would work on a CE remake and not include MP just because? (Re)Making games is never simple. There are always tons of problems, no matter how much time or resources you have. They had to make a choice and I believe they made the best choice they could've made.

Might have been worth delaying the project until they could try and bring the full package? I doubt from a business point of view that they would ever remake Halo 1 or 2 and include multiplayer while a main Halo game has multiplayer over live. This year it was Halo Reach, next year its Halo 4. I just hope Halo 4 brings the series back to its best but im mostly craving Halo 1 multiplayer right now because Reach doesnt quite hit the spot.

This is just turning into a chicken or the egg thing.

Halo CE was "about the campaign" because multiplayer beyond 4 people was a hassle. If it launched with online multiplayer it would have been just as important as it was in Halo 2.

For a lot of people the multiplayer was the main draw, I spent countless hours playing laggy games on my PC. If I could play Halo 1 multiplayer over live with good netcode I would be in heaven.

 

[Zabka]

Halo CE is definitely about the campaign.

Sucks that we won't get MP but at least we'll be getting the best campaign ever to be in a game.

And I don't understand why people are complaining. You think Frankie would work on a CE remake and not include MP just because? (Re)Making games is never simple. There are always tons of problems, no matter how much time or resources you have. They had to make a choice and I believe they made the best choice they could've made.

This is just turning into a chicken or the egg thing.

Halo CE was "about the campaign" because multiplayer beyond 4 people was a hassle. If it launched with online multiplayer it would have been just as important as it was in Halo 2.

 

[szaromir]

Holy shit, no skulls and no theatre? I am disappointed.

 

[The Librarian]

You realize that has everything to do with how the PR department wants to release information, and nothing to do with how players actually use and enjoy the game? Modern Warfare's PR campaign begins with a focus on the singleplayer game as well.

...and that wasn't my only point. Look, the fact that Anniversary only fully remakes the CE campaign illustrates my point. If Halo games were MP first and foremost, the Anniversary would have the multiplayer in place of the campaign. But it doesn't. And the game even includes more story information.

I wish CE had online MP too because I never got to experience Halo: CE LAN days. But I was not disappointed with Anniversary not having it because I wasn't expecting it. And that's because I see Halo games as campaign games first and foremost.

Holy shit, no skulls and no theatre? I am disappointed.

Huh? Skulls may or may not be in, but Theater is a negative.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The 'terminals' sound pretty interesting, at least. Especially the way they're supposedly going to tie into Halo 4.

That too, though when push comes to shove I'm a gameplay > story kind of guy. (I'd have to be, since Halo 3 has my favorite campaign.)

Holy shit, no skulls and no theatre? I am disappointed.

Word is there are some campaign features not yet announced. But theater is a no go, as its funtionality is tied closely to the engine. And the reissue uses the Halo 1 engine.

 

[Blue Ninja]

This is just turning into a chicken or the egg thing.

Halo CE was "about the campaign" because multiplayer beyond 4 people was a hassle. If it launched with online multiplayer it would have been just as important as it was in Halo 2.

Halo 1 was made mostly with the campaign in mind, though. Bungie didn't really have to worry about balancing issues and such, it was largely a singleplayer experience with a multiplayer added in. With the advent of Xbox Live and Halo 2, the majority of the focus went to the multiplayer.

That too, though when push comes to shove I'm a gameplay > story kind of guy. (I'd have to be, since Halo 3 has my favorite campaign.)

I'm more of the belief that good gameplay and a good story need to go hand-in-hand, and usually Halo games tend to follow that. Halo 3's story wasn't all that great, but from a canon perspective it was better than Reach's. :lol

Word is there are some campaign features not yet announced. But theater is a no go, as its funtionality is tied closely to the engine. And the reissue uses the Halo 1 engine.

Halofest will reveal all, it seems.

 

[szaromir]

Huh? Skulls may or may not be in, but Theater is a negative.

I understood from the conversation that they won't there. Let's hope they'll make their way to the campaign, the replayability of the remake would be through the roof for me.

 

[erpg]

I remember that post by Pitchford. I think that was the thread I where got permanently banned from the Gearbox forums (I was a little shit back then). If it was the option of living through PC's netcode again or going with Reach, I'd go with Reach a thousand times over. I'd miss the warthog physics (and grenade physics - weapons seem really heavy in Reach, is grenading items to you even possible?), but it's a small price to pay for not having to lead my shots a couple meters.

 

[jgminto]

Halo 1 was made mostly with the campaign in mind, though. Bungie didn't really have to worry about balancing issues and such, it was largely a singleplayer experience with a multiplayer added in. With the advent of Xbox Live and Halo 2, the majority of the focus went to the multiplayer.

The multiplayer was a last minute addition as well.

 

[cluto]

...and that wasn't my only point. Look, the fact that Anniversary only fully remakes the CE campaign illustrates my point. If Halo games were MP first and foremost, the Anniversary would have the multiplayer in place of the campaign. But it doesn't. And the game even includes more story information.

Halo being "about the Campaign" is not the reason why HA is omitting the multiplayer.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

...and that wasn't my only point. Look, the fact that Anniversary only fully remakes the CE campaign illustrates my point. If Halo games were MP first and foremost, the Anniversary would have the multiplayer in place of the campaign. But it doesn't. And the game even includes more story information.

I wish CE had online MP too because I never got to experience Halo: CE LAN days. But I was not disappointed with Anniversary not having it because I wasn't expecting it. And that's because I see Halo games as campaign games first and foremost.

Huh? Skulls may or may not be in, but Theater is a negative.

Sorry Dax, but thats the worst argument ever. People here are complaining that 343 as a company arent pleasing the fans by not including multiplayer, and you basically replied with... 343 as a company didnt add multiplayer because they didnt think it was worth adding.

I dont think I managed to highlight the oddness of your post, but you cant say that most customers play Halo games primarily for the campaign just because a company dictates a single player only game to us.

For the record I think most gamers probably do just stick with playing the campaign once through and moving on, but the hardcore Halo fans mostly stick around because of the multiplayer.

 

[Blue Ninja]

The multiplayer was a last minute addition as well.

For Halo 2? I thought they were advertising the multiplayer for a long time before the game came out.

Though, I guess, in Halo 2's case, everything was a last minute addition, as they restarted development about halfway through.

 

[The Librarian]

Sorry Dax, but thats the worst argument ever. People here are complaining that 343 as a company arent pleasing the fans by not including multiplayer, and you basically replied with... 343 as a company didnt add multiplayer because they didnt think it was worth adding.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Whether or not to prioritize campaign over MP is what I'm saying.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Word is there are some campaign features not yet announced. But theater is a no go, as its funtionality is tied closely to the engine. And the reissue uses the Halo 1 engine.

This is a lot more depressing than no CE multiplayer. Also the armor looks ugly.

Tying in the Reach multiplayer is a smarter decision than fragmenting the Halo online community any further.

 

[nVidiot_Whore]

You would imagine incorrectly. All of the LAN parties and sleep overs and time spent with friends with the original multiplayer is what I remember the most about Halo CE. We spent many more hours playing multiplayer when we were younger than we did doing anything else. Everyone I knew who was my age had the same experience.

How could I imagine incorrectly when I said nothing about YOU or YOUR experience?

I'm not the one projecting my own experience on the general public who bought a game.. I also went to LAN parties.

It doesn't ship with its own multiplayer component, it ships with Reach's multiplayer component.

Halo : CEA is a product for sale that ships with a multi-player component.

Not to any Halo player I have ever met. Until this thread I thought everyone (except Bungie) considered the campaign to be just a bonus part. Halo is a single player experience in the same way that Goldeneye, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, and the Aki Wrestling were.

That is an incredible statement considering the series of books, toys, etc. that were released post Halo : CE.. they had nothing to do with the multi-player portion of that game.

None of the games you guys are bringing up had anywhere near the same level of popularity for the single player..

Only the first GTA really had a long lifespan -- everything else was very front-loaded.

Yeah.. because GTA 3 was the first big GTA game.. word of mouth spread the game over the years. The following games had much bigger launches.. your point was still ridiculously innacurate.. and ignorant of the history of game sales.

If multiplayer wasn't a big deal in the original Halo, then why did Halo 2 multiplayer explode so completely and immediately?

First of all I never said it wasn't a big deal.. second of all.. what a loaded question.

Halo 2 also sold more in it's first DAY then there were Xbox Live accounts.. explain that one.

Even if one were to concede the point that maybe not everyone tried Halo:CE multiplayer, isn't that all the more reason to accurately re-create it in a more modern form? It's fantastic, and it's important that it be preserved in some way.

It could be.. and would be great to see... unfortunately we aren't.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

That's not what I'm saying at all. Whether or not to prioritize campaign over MP is what I'm saying.

Yeah, but just because 343 didnt prioritise multiplayer over campaign doesnt mean they made the right choice. You cant justify someones actions simply by declaring that a company acted a certain way especially when its those actions which people are questioning.

I feel like im making no sense at all, but from what I read of your post you were justifying 343 not including multiplayer, simply because 343 didnt include multiplayer, that leap of logic is just crazy lol.

Im probably totally off base, but your post totally threw me for a loop.

 

[Booshka]

Sorry Dax, but thats the worst argument ever. People here are complaining that 343 as a company arent pleasing the fans by not including multiplayer, and you basically replied with... 343 as a company didnt add multiplayer because they didnt think it was worth adding.

I dont think I managed to highlight the oddness of your post, but you cant say that most customers play Halo games primarily for the campaign just because a company dictates a single player only game to us.

For the record I think most gamers probably do just stick with playing the campaign once through and moving on, but the hardcore Halo fans mostly stick around because of the multiplayer.

But apparently not for Halo CE's MP, or that's at least what people have been saying, which is total bullshit.

 

[aasoncott]

The 'terminals' sound pretty interesting, at least. Especially the way they're supposedly going to tie into Halo 4.

Microsoft recently announced that the terminals are being done by us here at Sequence (we're probably most known for the I Am Legend motion comics and the crazy-epic Broken Saints). It's been seriously awesome working on them, and I think people are going to really like what they add to the story.

 

[GloveSlap]

I would actually be interested in a poll on whether you would rather have just the multiplayer or just the campaign in the remake. I would take multiplayer only in a heart beat.

People keep talking about the limited resources involved in the project like redoing all of the graphics in the campaign was quick and easy. This has more to do with their priorities, and personally think their priorities were misguided for this project.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This is a lot more depressing than no CE multiplayer. Also the armor looks ugly.

Tying in the Reach multiplayer is a smarter decision than fragmenting the Halo online community any further.

Yeah, theater news really crushed me.

I wonder how much Reach amplified the desire to have Halo 1's MP included. There has been and always will be demand for Halo 1 MP online, but I think once the rumors of the remake started, many people were looking to it hoping for classic MP because of the degree to which Reach deviated from the gameplay of the past games. So it's not just that the classic gameplay won't be there, it's that some of the classic maps will be in a MP game that plays very, very differently from the original. (Setting aside for the moment any as-yet unannounced features to alter the gameplay.)

 

[bobs...onGaf]

But apparently not for Halo CE's MP, or that's at least what people have been saying, which is total bullshit.

As much there are people like Rockslider out there and communities dedicated to tricking out Halo CE campaign, and speedrunning it and so on, im willing to bet that for the average gamer, Halo ce was a game that they played a few times through and then stopped playing. It was an amazing experience but not something they kept going back to unless they had people to MP it up with. I personally had that sort of experience with Halo 1, and it wasn't until Halo PC that I played it a lot more religiously.

It was a fantastic game, but if Bungie decided to just focus on the Single player and ignore the multiplayer for Halo 2 I doubt the series would have the hardcore following it does now. Sure, people would praise the campaigns, but it sure as hell wouldnt be top of the xbl charts as much as it has been.

In many ways, I think MLG getting so into Halo 1 and people like Loius Wu running the lan parties shaped Halo.

 

[border]

If it was the option of living through PC's netcode again or going with Reach, I'd go with Reach a thousand times over. I'd miss the warthog physics (and grenade physics - weapons seem really heavy in Reach, is grenading items to you even possible?), but it's a small price to pay for not having to lead my shots a couple meters.

Thanks to whoever posted that bit from Gearbox, I'd never really heard any kind of postmortem on the Halo PC.

It sounds like Microsoft's requirement that 56K modems be supported really borked the game, since it forces them to move from a standard that supported only the best most high-fidelity connectivity (LAN) to a standard that supported the worst kind of connectivity (analog modem). It's ironic that MS was pushing for broadband-only on Xbox while simultaneously hamstringing developers on PC by forcing them to include 56K support.

I'm not sure how much the physics aspect of it would be impossible to replicate. As I said already, if they can get the physics working for XBL co-op, I don't see why they couldn't do it for multiplayer.

 

[The Librarian]

Yeah, but just because 343 didnt prioritise multiplayer over campaign doesnt mean they made the right choice. You cant justify someones actions simply by declaring that a company acted a certain way especially when its those actions which people are questioning.

I feel like im making no sense at all, but from what I read of your post you were justifying 343 not including multiplayer, simply because 343 didnt include multiplayer, that leap of logic is just crazy lol.

I'm not saying they made the right choice. I'm not trying to justify 343's decision to not include multiplayer. I'm just trying to establish a perspective on the franchise. What I'm saying is that... Okay, I was generalizing before but maybe I should've been more personal. Because I see Halo as a campaign game first and foremost, I wasn't expecting multiplayer in a remake that may or may not be being worked on (hell, I wasn't expecting a remake at all). And from that perspective, having no MP is not surprising.

 

[Izayoi]

Halo : CEA is a product for sale that ships with a multi-player component.

Except that it doesn't, and you're telling a bald-faced lie. There's no multiplayer component shipping with HA. We're getting a map pack for Reach.

It could be.. and would be great to see... unfortunately we aren't.

What a defeatist attitude. You're fine with just choking down whatever 343 vomits onto your plate? You're not going to demand something better?

 

[border]

...and that wasn't my only point. Look, the fact that Anniversary only fully remakes the CE campaign illustrates my point. If Halo games were MP first and foremost, the Anniversary would have the multiplayer in place of the campaign. But it doesn't. And the game even includes more story information.

Well I think you're choosing to look at only from the perspective of how Bungie wants to shape the franchise. There's a pretty significant contingent of players that do see Halo as multiplayer-driven, but they're not the ones making design decisions. Modern Warfare could undoubtedly have comic books and novels and stuff (like Ubisoft does with the Clancy games), but they'd rather just focus on their strengths.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Except that it doesn't, and you're telling a bald-faced lie. There's no multiplayer component shipping with HA. We're getting a map pack for Reach.

It's playable Halo: Reach multiplayer across 7 maps on the disc, or you can add the maps to Reach.

 

[Hitmonchan107]

Except that it doesn't, and you're telling a bald-faced lie. There's no multiplayer component shipping with HA. We're getting a map pack for Reach.


What a defeatist attitude. You're fine with just choking down whatever 343 vomits onto your plate? You're not going to demand something better?

You can play the maps in multiplayer from the Halo: CEA disc. It's not simply a download for the maps (though you can do that as well).

 

[GhaleonEB]

Except that it doesn't, and you're telling a bald-faced lie. There's no multiplayer component shipping with HA. We're getting a map pack for Reach.

You will be able to select multiplayer from the menu and go play in a playlist dedicated to those six MP maps (and I assume Firefight map also). It is true that it's a big map pack for Reach, but it's one players will be able to take online out of the box and go play.

(It would be far more ideal to include the base Reach shipping maps with the reissue, but the fact remains that you can play online MP from the get go on those maps in matchmaking from the get-go.)

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I'm not saying they made the right choice. I'm not trying to justify 343's decision to not include multiplayer. I'm just trying to establish a perspective on the franchise. What I'm saying is that... Okay, I was generalizing before but maybe I should've been more personal. Because I see Halo as a campaign game first and foremost, I wasn't expecting multiplayer in a remake that may or may not be being worked on (hell, I wasn't expecting a remake at all). And from that perspective, having no MP is not surprising.

I find that outlook interesting, before I got live I felt the same way, and I adore Halo for the campaign and the fiction, but I somehow doubt Halo would be as big as it is without multiplayer. I mean I know people the total opposite of you that play Halo just for the multiplayer and grew bored of the single player a few missions in. I dont think anyone really knows what side of the fence the majority lie on, but I personally think that single player and multiplayer should be at the very least treated equally.

Sure with the CE remake there are business reasons for them not to include multiplayer, but I hope 343 respects multiplayer people when it comes to Halo 4 and this isnt a sign of things to come.

 

[Zabka]

With the amount of work that Bungie put into the multiplayer for Halo 2, 3 and Reach, above and beyond 99% of developers, I figured the whole point of a Halo remake would be to get it online like every other Halo game.

But this isn't Bungie.